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bearishgurl
ParticipantI guess the thrust of the reason for my (late) participation here is: why are the posters only using some of the most expensive housing markets in LA for comparison purposes (or to drive home the notion that LA county is “unaffordable” or a “hellhole”).
Sure, if you won’t live in SD Co unless you can buy a SFR in Mission Hills (or in LA unless you can buy a SFR in Pasadena), then of course, BOTH counties would be “unaffordable” in your eyes.
If an LA Co resident works near the home that they own and occupy, how is that any worse than living in, say MM and “commuting” 10 minutes to CV every day (using this example for SD Co)?
What the h@ll is wrong with “regular” homes in “regular” neighborhoods in SoCal … you know, the ones which have large enough lots for your kids to actually run and play in?
Speaking of family-oriented communities, was anyone aware that West Covina (among nearby cities) has one of the largest (if not THE largest), most sophisticated little league stadium in the nation?
Participant[quote=FlyerInHi]BG, I just looked on Redfin. The median in Rowland Heights is $778k.
I don’t see any SFR for $400k.Please share an example of a listing.[/quote]
Well, I haven’t looked around in there since March, FIH, but in 91748, there are dozens of SFR recent sold comps (last six months) in the $400K range.
see: http://www.realtor.com/soldhomeprices/Rowland-Heights_CA/type-single-family-home
The case is the same with neighboring Hacienda Heights (91745, which I HAVE been on the street in) … as well:
http://www.realtor.com/soldhomeprices/Hacienda-Heights_CA/type-single-family-home
I think I still have these cities saved in the realtor.com aggregator so I’ll check for any current listings priced under $475K.
If there are now few to none, then whew …. home values in these cities must currently be increasing in the double digits …. every MONTH!!
Participantdupe
Participant[quote=FlyerInHi][quote=The-Shoveler]
Housing is pushing further and further out (Job’s and industry are following).
[/quote]For sure.
I drive the San Diego – Vegas route frequently, and I see it. LA will extend all the way to Victorville eventually, maybe with a high speed train to Vegas. Fontana and San Bernardino are booming.While there is a place for the suburbs and the exurbs, there is a demographic desire for the city.
Back in the 90s, you could have bought a condo in Century City for the mid $200s, the same as a big house in Corona or Temecula. Not true anymore. Century city is now very sought after. You could also have bought a small rundown building in Hollywood. You’d now be an owner of store fronts and apartments above that generate rental income.
My bet is that the price gap between the city and suburbs will widen (as happened in NYC vs its suburbs); though, in California, the suburbs will do well enough thanks to population growth.
BTW, over the weekend, I was in Laguna Niguel and Mission Viejo visiting people. The whole sterility it all was such a turn off to me, though I do understand the attraction of it all. Miles after miles of the same thing. I’d rather live in the city.[/quote]
FIH, I agree that some cities in San Bernardino County are “booming.” Although the residential RE is still reasonably priced, the cities along SR-71 (SB Co’s western corridor bordering LA Co) such as Chino Hills and Montclair DO seem to be booming in that residential listings seem to be selling fast and for all cash. This (western corridor) of SanBern Co seems to be much better-zoned than the I-215 corridor of San Bern (which still has ag mixed with light industry mixed with residential).
As the earlier article linked here stated, I DO believe that from here on out, LA area millenials who want to buy an affordable newer house for their families and who can find well-paying employment in eastern OC financial centers will end up flocking to SanBern County (possibly Rancho Cucamonga and Fontana but not much further). However, the leader of the City of San Bern are still duking it out and mired with issues, almost all relating to their 2013 BK filing.
As far as those communities (in Riv Co) south of the former March AFB, well that’s a pretty far-flung choice for a multi-year daily grind to an LA/OC job. Temecula/Murrieta are actually better suited to an Inland North County SD job.
FIH, I agree that LA County homebuyers WOULD prefer urban such as Burbank, Glendale or even Pasadena but because of these cities’ excellent locations and architecture (ex: Pasadena), SFRs located within them are so cost prohibitive now (for those who do not yet own a home there) that only the wealthiest buyers can afford them. Even small homes listed under $800K in these cities often need $150K++ of work to make them habitable.
Participantshoveler, LA County really does have lots of land. It’s just that its leaders had the foresight to leave it preserved as open space …. as it should be.
As well all know, SD County and its cities’ leadership systematically all sold out to Big Development beginning five years after the passage of the Mello Roos Community Facilities Act (of 1982). The lure of the eventual incoming property tax revenue (from teeter funds) was just too great for our (greedy) elected officials. In doing so, they sold out their constituents’ future quality of life with their votes.
Show me ONE community in LA County which lies within a CFD and has Mello Roos. Post it here, please. I want to see how far-flung it is, which trash dump it was built on or which island it’s on.
Therein lies your answer. The formation of CFDs has essentially decimated the livability in many areas of the City and County of SD.
SFRs (and condos in most) in nearly all the cities mentioned here are NOT affordable for a worker-bee single or couple or buy-and-hold investor. The more affordable LA Co cities lie east and southeast of downtown LA.
And there’s really nothing wrong with nearly all of them. The LaVernes, La Puentes, Rowland Heights, West Covinas and Baldwin Parks (etc) of the world are SoCal’s version of Leave it to Beaver and Mayberry RFD (as is dtn Chula Vista) with their mature tree-lined sidewalks, block walls with decorative brick, monthly antique car shows and weekly farmer’s markets, etc. ALL of these cities (and their “brethren” out there) are extremely livable, fairly close-in (and reasonably-priced) with average lot sizes of 7500+ sf and “real” red oak hardwood floors, among other mid-century features!
Yes, the crime rate has vastly improved in nearly ALL of LA County as it has in SD County (mostly due to “neighborhood policing” policies adopted in the ’80’s and early ’90’s).
Except for AC being a necessity part of the year in most communities east of I-605, I see no other drawbacks to living in that area or even raising a family out there (many of the public schools out there are rated 8-10)!
Yes, most of these communities have a very high population of Asian immigrants, including (mostly US trained) doctors, lawyers and other professionals. Most of this population (or their parents) immigrated from China, Taiwan, Vietnam and the Phillipines in the last 35 years.
Folks, you won’t find these well-built houses in SD County built to this magnitude …. ANYWHERE! For example, in tiny Normal Heights and Talmadge (SD), where some do exist, most of them are heavily mixed in with multifamily bldgs on the same street and are mostly situated on 5000-6000 sf lots. And they cost a LOT MORE than the current $350K to $475K listing prices in the San Gabriel Valley (LA Co) cities mentioned above.
LA is far from a “hellhole” but I do agree that the western portion of it is essentially unaffordable to buy into for the vast majority of homebuyers and investors. In any case, there are many, many more “job centers” in or near LA County with a much wider variety of jobs available than in SD County.
Participant[quote=AN][quote=bearishgurl]
You wouldn’t have a 40-60 min commute if you bought a WWII box in Northern SM County (San Bruno Millbrae, Belmont, Redwood City …. even East Palo Alto) for $700-$900K and moved in, enabling you to eventually position yourself for that $300K salary level you were posting about.[/quote]You serious don’t know what you’re talking about. In Millbrae, there’s only 1 house for sale <$1M. https://www.redfin.com/CA/Millbrae/508-Lomita-Ct-94030/home/1951087. It's listed at $999k. Same with Belmont, there's only 1 for sale <$1M: https://www.redfin.com/CA/Belmont/618-Hiller-St-94002/home/1708651, listing at $949k for a 3/1 1000 sq-ft. Redwood City school sucks and I wouldn't want to subject my kids to that crap. Same with East PA.[/quote]AN, I didn't check to see if the links you posted were currently the only ones under $1M in northern SM County. I did look at both of them and noticed that they were priced at least $150K higher than similarly-sized homes in those areas the last time I checked, which was Nov-Dec 2014. I noted the $999K Millbrae listing is still active tonight and still displays only one photo and the $949K Belmont listing is also still active and has been on the market for 8 days.
I'll check them again Sunday night to see if the sellers have accepted an offer.
Assuming arguendo that you're right and your links are the only current SFR listings priced under $1M in the small SM Co cities I mentioned, this leads me to believe that somewhat “affordable” SFR listings (if you can call listings priced $950K-$1M “affordable”) are currently in such short supply in that locale that most of the agents/brokers there, upon taking a listing, just show it to one of their OWN buyers or a buyer-client represented by an “in-house” agent (waiting in the wings on their list for an SFR to become available) and instantly sell it. Then, the listing brokerage quietly double-ends the listing and collects 100% of the commission (even if its only 4% – 5%).
In other words, most “affordable” SFR listings taken within SM County never make it to the RE aggregators such as Redfin because they are already sold and so never even make it into the MLS. The listing agent doesn’t get that far because there isn’t enough time. Upon getting the seller(s) sig(s) on the listing, they promptly begin calling from their long list of waiting, vetted buyers, show it before there is even a sign in the yard and begin writing offer(s). I found this to be the case with my “saved” Contra Costa County listings which I was monitoring about two years ago, as well. I had conducted searches of public record sold comps and matched them to my “saved” listings which went pending within days and I ending up finding several more properties in the immediate area that recently “sold” in apparent “arm’s-length” transactions which never made it into the MLS. And all these listings were on the EAST side of the tunnel, so the practice in the SF bay area of obtaining (hidden-to-the-public) or “pocket listings” is not confined to SV or even bayfront cities.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caldecott_Tunnel
[quote=AN]Where do you get that an average enginerd will be able to make $300k (assuming you don’t hit the IPO lottery)? I would call BS. I know a few enginerds at my age and they’re making less than I am, yet they’re in the bay area. When I interview with companies up there, when I passed the technical part and we start talking about salary, that’s where it breaks down. Salary are between 15-25% higher than SD, that’s what recruiters tell me. They would offer more stocks but with my luck, I would end up picking a company that wouldn’t hit the IPO lottery. . .[/quote]
AN I never stated the “average” enginerd would be offered $300K upon hire. I simply stated that they could put themselves in line in the SV for eventually making that much. I don’t think this is doable in SD County.
My kid(s) who already graduated from college are in HR/Hospitality Mgmt and they absolutely do make 2-3x the pay in SF than they could ever get in SD County.
We SD County residents have this thing called an int’l border which is now a sieve of Sentri Pass holders going back and forth twice every weekday in their special lanes (yes, even thousands of Americans) to work in San Diego in jobs such as HR and Hospitality Mgmt and everything else in between (low-skilled, semi-skilled … all the way up to “professionals”). The same 4/2 SFR that rents for $2200 to $2400 mo in Chula Vista rents for about $550 to $750 mo in Tijuana. Thus, San Diego County has a never-ending supply of many thousands of workers (mostly bilingual) who live in MX with whom local employers can easily get away with paying less. Why? Because this “captive audience” will accept less and not be so insistent on timely raises and promotions (as a worker would who has a much higher COL in the US). This is ESPecially true in the hospitality industry. But the phenomenon is not contained to that industry alone. It’s present to varying degrees in ALL industries (even some branches of govm’t, where the salaries are published). This practice results in SD County having a pay scale of up to 45% lower than the SF bay area and 25-30% lower than LA County. This is the primary reason I told my kids NOT to seek work here. They’ll likely be working their a$$es off only to reach the $50K annual salary mark after ten years with the same SD employer (assuming they last that long). They make WELL over six figures now in SF and live in rent-controlled unit(s). One is arriving back home tonight from their 2nd trip to Europe in one year (Berlin, Copenhagen and Paris this time).
wtf?? I’ve never been to Europe! Maybe I’ll get my (expired) document(s) renewed this year and try to scare up a better-off Gen Y kid to show me the ropes over there 🙂
AN, if you’re happy with your salary and promotional opportunities in SD and thus were able to buy a home on your turf (and remodel it as well?), I think that’s great! But a high percentage of native San Diegan college grads in the past 10+ years have not been able to find work in SD County which pays enough to even move out of their parent(s) back bdrm at the age of 30+. Yes, even if they graduated with an occupational degree and don’t have any student loans, MANY in this group still cannot make enough here to support themselves. They can’t get FT jobs in their fields here and many can’t get enough hours on their PT job here to even make a regular car payment. I didn’t mean to use you as an example but you are one of the younger Piggs here (who can still ostensibly get hired) … so consider yourself fortunate!
Participant[quote=flu]On second thought. Forgot the $25 certificate to TireRack, Goodwin, or Amazon.com for me. I don’t need it….
If I win, you can donate $25 to the DMSEF foundation to support science, technology, math, PE enrichment in my kid’s district. http://dmsef.org/
It’s a great deal for you because even if I win (which I’m pretty confident I will), you can still feel good that $25 of your money went to a good cause and is tax deductible for you.
Interested?[/quote]
I haven’t yet had a chance to study the sold comps for similarly-sized econoboxes in your neck of the woods. I’ll have to let you know in a couple of days.
Participant[quote=joec]I agree that a lot of these mcmansions have no trouble selling. At the end of the day, people HAVE to live somewhere unlike buying a stock so when you are paying 7-8k per month rent to rent a house (guessing on price, but I did find some 5k rentals for < 2k townhomes for rent) for your family of 4 or 5 with a dog, you’re stuck having to buy whatever the market prices are.
Bay area housing prices are even more insane than I realized after looking at some of these links posted…[/quote]
People don’t “have” to live in an “econobox” on a marginal lot. Not even in North City or North County. There are PLENTY of other options to rent or buy up there.
$5K – $8K rent is NOT representative of what tenants in SD County pay. Not sure where you’re getting those numbers …. luxury homes, perhaps? There aren’t many of those for rent which are truly “SFRs.” Owners of luxury homes don’t want them torn up by long-term tenants, ESPECIALLY families with young kids and pets. Maybe this group might let their luxury homes via VBRO to short-term tenants property vetted in advance with a large deposit, but the reality is that most of these owners can well afford to leave them vacant for a few months or just “test” the market and see if they can get any offers close to their “fantasy price.”
There are a quite a few “luxury” estate-type properties (abt 4500 sf and up on 1/2 to 1 AC) near me which are routinely left vacant for several months per year as their owners live part time in MX (mostly Guadalajara and Mexico City). These owners have service people visit (for landscaping and pool maintenance) during the months they don’t live there.
ParticipantColumbus Day to Veteran’s Day (Oct-Nov) is traditionally the warmest time of year in SF. It’s always crawling with tourists on Veteran’s Day weekend.
Participant[quote=spdrun]http://sandiego.craigslist.org/csd/apa/5007505824.html
Even if you rent, you can find a decent place within walking distance to a beautiful beach for a reasonable price in SD. Try that trick in SF Bay Area.[/quote]
Nice unit spdrun.
The bay area doesn’t have beaches which are like So Cal’s. They have narrower beaches or a “coastline” usually with a dirt or pavement hiking path. Not only is most of the coastline too rugged from SC County northwards, the water is much too cold there and the wind is pretty high most of the year. Parts of the coast are actually inaccessible.
There are many, many reasons why life can be fantastic living in the SF Bay area but going to hang out at the beach all day in a swimsuit to play volleyball and have a bonfire later is not one of them.
Participant[quote=flu] . . . At $1.375, might be tougher to sell, but I think it would move easily around 1.2-1.25 maybe higher …[/quote]
Well, flu claimed the OP’s link was overpriced by $150-$175K. We’ll see what this econobox specimen actually sells for in a few weeks.
Participant[quote=spdrun]No one here is wrong. The deal didn’t make sense versus renting in 2011 and makes even less sense now. The figure of $5k+/mo is off-base, sorry to say.
You can rent a dog-friendly 3-bedroom in Encinitas for $3150.
http://sandiego.craigslist.org/nsd/apa/5016043874.html
How about 4-bedrooms (cats only) for the same price?
http://sandiego.craigslist.org/nsd/apa/5013325431.html
4 beds, no pets, $2600..
http://sandiego.craigslist.org/nsd/apa/5011035755.html%5B/quote%5DIn my area, 4/2 SFRs rent for $2200 – $2400, 3/2 SFRs rent for $1800 – $2200 and 2/1 SFRs rent for $1600 – $1800. Most with big backyards, nearly ALL dog/cat friendly, walkable and close to bus lines and trolley 🙂
Approx 10 mi from dtn SD.
ParticipantI guess all those antiquated “printing presses” on Camino De La Reina are now obsolete. (I went on a tour of the bldg many years ago and it was fascinating.)
ParticipantI do believe some people can make a relatively decent salary ($100-$150K) and save a good portion of it every month. It depends on lifestyle. For example, riding a free shuttle or the Caltrain to work and back is a lot cheaper than driving.
People CAN create wealth from salaries (albeit more slowly). If they are trying to support an entire family on one salary, probably not. That’s a good argument for a dual-income household … to get ahead, save money for retirement and kids’ college and avoid living check to check.
(flu just mentioned trying to support an entire family in SV on one “enginerd” salary, which I feel is unrealistic.) Of course, I agree that you are just “paying bills” without the other able-bodied adult(s) in the family bringing in income.
I don’t know if that’s what he was trying to do while living in SV.
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