[an]

[quote=flu]Stanford is harder to get in 🙂 At least if you do get in, tuition is free if your household income is less than $150k. In the bay area, I did run into a bunch of Stanford grads, and they were pretty capable. The school runs like an incubator[/quote]My bet though, is that if you take any of these guys and put them in SJSU or SDSU, they would still be where they are today. I still believe that they make the school and not the school make them. Meg wouldn’t be where she is today if she didn’t get lucky and be part of the eBay start up. Same with Marissa Meyer. I don’t think these school somehow changed them to make them want to do a start up. It’s in their DNA. But I have no data to back that assumption.
If my kids are really that smart to be able to get into Ivy/Stanford, I can just retire a few years before they apply, so that my income will be near $0. Then they’ll get a free ride. Then the ROI definitely will be there :-D.

[an]

[quote=flu]I’m sure doctors do pretty well mid-career, better than engineers, don’t you? And how long can doctors practice for?

I’m sure a decent attorney can still practice when their in their 60ies.

I’m sure a decent real estate broker/agent can still work in their 60ies.

You think you can practice in your engineering job when you are 70? Have you seen many 60-65 year old engineers?

I know you’re going to say, well most of those doctors/real estate brokers/agents/attoronies don’t do well… Well guess what? Most of the engineers these days that aren’t really good, don’t do really well either. They usually are the ones that get outsourced overseas first. So if you want to make a comparison, compare best case scenario to best case scenario or worst case scenario to worst case scenario.

Way to pick my words.[/quote]Totally agree with this assessment. What I actually plan to do is become a real estate agent/broker after my tech career start to fade. Nothing say you have to stay in Tech till you’re old :-P. But, I’m sure an average real estate agent only sell a couple house a year, so you’re definitely not making as much as an average engineer. I’m trying to retire when I’m in my 50s, so, it doesn’t concern me about career prospect in the 60+. Become a real estate agent would be my hobby :-).

[an]

[quote=flu]Off the top of my head…

Reddit (Yale)
LinkedIn (UPenn Wharton)
Google(Ok, it’s Stanford but close enough)
Yelp(Harvard)
Yahoo and beloved Marissa(Stanford)
HP (Meg is Princeton and Harvard)
eBay: Stanford
Juniper Networks: Stanford
Tesla: UPenn (Musk is a Wharton Alumni and was undergrad in physics)
Amazon (Princeton)
Apple (Duke. It’s not ivy, but elitist enough :))

I’m sure there’s many more I missed, even the startup ones that aren’t well known. I guess we can argue now what is considered tech and what is considered not tech.[/quote]
Base on that list, I say, go to Stanford, not Ivy :-P.

[an]

[quote=flu]Starting salary is irrelevant. It’s earning potential, doing the same thing throughout the years. You’ll find that short of getting into a VP or Director position, you’ll probably top out at a much lower ceiling than any other profession, relative to

1. Investment banking
2. Hedge fund
3. VC
4. Management consulting at companies like Bain and Company and McKinsey & Co…[/quote]
I don’t know those fields. How much does a 10 years veteran make in those fields? How would their salary compare to salary at Google and FB? Can you break out and make it on your own like tech and start your own start up?

[an]

[quote=deadzone]But no, you are not going to get rich being an Engineer or most any other profession. Most wealthy people are trust funders. A fortunate few get lucky with IPOs, real estate etc. but I don’t consider those careers.[/quote]Agree, I think engineering have one of the highest start and definitely have the highest ceiling. Bill Gates vs all :-).

[an]

[quote=FlyerInHi]Not only can you brag about it, but an elite education is simply better.

Do you send your kids to piano lessons to turn them into more accomplished human beings, or so you can brag at family gatherings? Maybe only a little bit of pride and bragging.

What about sports?

If bragging makes one a douchebag, then I know quite a few douchy parents.[/quote]I send my kids to piano so they can improve their motor skills and learn about music. I don’t brag about it.
My kid is in soccer. I let him play so he learn team work, get lots of exercise, and kindle his competitive drive. I don’t brag about that either. I could careless if he score the most goal. I just push him to do his best and that’s all that matter.

[an]

Here’s data for CS major:
http://www.payscale.com/college-salary-report-2014/best-schools-by-major/computer-science

Look like best ROI would be CSU SLO and SJSU. UC are all over that list too. Not very many Ivy on there.

[an]

[quote=FlyerInHi]AN, one min it’s all about ROI, and the next min money is not everything?[/quote]Those are two different thing. Yes, money is not everything and yes, the ROI on Ivy on average isn’t good. Why is that confusing? Or should I go broke and have bad ROI?

[quote=FlyerInHi]Like I said before, you CAN afford to send your kids to Ivy League. You can live in a small house or condo, no? Someone mentioned before that the sacrifice is like driving an economy car vs. a luxury car over time. [/quote]A better analogy would be like buying a Ferrari vs buying a 3 series.

[quote=FlyerInHi]Not saying, that would be the right choice for you, but many parents would make the sacrifice if their kids were admitted to an elite school.

This debate is academic because a kid who is admitted to an Ivy League school has many options.[/quote]There is no right or wrong. Everyone decide what’s right for them and their kids. Some people would buy a McMansion and have no money in the bank, some would live in a small 3/2 in the ghetto have have millions in the bank. We all spend our money different. We all value different things.

[an]

[quote=Dukehorn]There are a lot of millionaires who are plumbers, realtors, developers, ambulance chasers, etc. Good for them.

There are also lots of millionaires who are interventional radiologists, CEOs, CFOs, investment bankers, partners in law firms. Most of these folks who I know do have Ivy level degrees.

If you are a smart kid which pool do you want to come out of?

There’s nothing wrong with having a middle-class lifestyle with your kids just as there’s nothing wrong with being a Harvard Law grad who would like to be a Supreme Court clerk.

Different strokes for different folks.[/quote]The CEO, CFO, partners, VPs, entrepreneurs who have made it, that I know all went to non Ivy. My current director went to SDSU. So, yeah, Ivy doesn’t mean much in tech. I bet there are more tech entrepreneurs who have made it graduated from UC and CSU than Ivy. I don’t have the data to back this up, just my personal experiences.

As for which pool I want for my kid, I’d say, what ever that make them happier. As long as they have all the money they need for them to be happy, it doesn’t really matter.

No one is saying that there’s anything wrong with an Ivy degree. We’re just debating whether it’s worth it. To some, it does and to others, it doesn’t. There’s no right or wrong answer here.

[an]

[quote=flu]Actually,

1. Irwin did.
2. Viterbi went to MIT.

But then again, Qualcomm arguably is past its prime in its current state.[/quote]
I think he’s talking about current execs. Even though Irwin went to Cornell, Paul went to UCB. Mollenkopf went to Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University and UMich. I don’t think it matters whether QCOM past its prime or not. We’re talking about personal financial success.

[an]

[quote=scaredyclassic]huh. I took the day off to finish our taxes and I guess we are in the top 5 percent. Why don’t we feel loaded? Feels like we get by.[/quote]Really put things in perspective huh? Sometimes, we’re too busy looking up and fail to look down to see how far up we are.

[an]

That’s great that your kids are that close.

[an]

[quote=joec]As I’ve mentioned before and repeated here, when you go to some of these schools, the admissions folks already weeded out the non-achievers so you’re mostly going to school with the top future leaders and execs of the world. Yes, some joe schmo can start a business and be a millionaire or multi-millionaire from a state school, but the odds are against you.[/quote]Do you have data to back this up? All the millionaires and multi-millionaires I know all went to states school. Some don’t even have a college education. I love to see data to back up this statement. I know for sure that a couple millionaires I know wouldn’t be millionaires today if their parents didn’t have the capital to help them start their business.
BTW, I’m not disputing that if you have a few hundred grand set aside for their Ivy degree and a few hundred grand set aside for their start up or small biz, that you should withheld the Ivy education from them. Obviously, money wouldn’t be an issue at that point. However, I’m talking about deciding whether to send your kid to Ivy or help them start their small biz/start up or a more likely scenario, help them bolster their finances through out their lives since they picked a career that doesn’t have very high pay. Keep in mind that only 5% of the US household make more than $186k. We’re talking about household, not individuals. So, the probability of your kids’ household income not exceeding $186k is very high.
You might like to point to all the CEO/Presidents/etc. who went to Ivy. But you have to be realistic that the probability of your kids being one of those is <1%. The probability of your kids' household making <$186k is 95%. So, do you swing for the fences or do you plan for the more likely scenario. I never felt "limited". So I don't have any regrets or frustration about some imaginary glass ceiling. I accepted the hands I was dealt. I'm not the smartest person, not the most social person, etc. All of those characteristics make me who I am. I am my own glass ceiling. I make my decision based on what I have available. I don't blame others and my surrounding environment for my short comings. I think I'm doing pretty well financially. Probably the best that I could based on my luck and my natural talent. But what's even more important than all of the money is the fact that I met my wife at a State's school. My life would have been much worse if I went to an Ivy and didn't meet her. I wouldn't have my wonderful kids. I wouldn't be living near families and have families help take care of my kids when we need them to. My kids wouldn't get to see their grand parents every week and sometimes, multiple times a week. The grand parents wouldn't be able to take them to soccer practice and go see their soccer games. This to me is 1000x more important than being a millionaire. It makes my life 1000x more satisfying and I'm that much more happy. There's a lot more to life than money. I don't feel that my life is mediocre at all. I feel that it's very rich. Might not be $ rich but then again, I don't put $ as #1 priority. If I have to give up either my $ or every other aspect of my life that has nothing to do with $, I would give up the $ in a heart beat. I hope that my kids will learn that lesson as well. If their fate give them a lot of $, that's great, but if it doesn't, that's great too. I'll be there to help them every step of the way. As long as they're happy and we're a close family, that ultimately is what really matter.

[an]

[quote=scaredyclassic]I guess “better” all depends where you’re coming from. The last thing I’d wish on my kids is some “top” law school and a status seeking law career.

When I think of a better life for my kids, I think of them having their head in a certain place.

Like for instance on our family trip, I was starting to lose it at the end of our trip in in the taxi ride when the driver got a little lost. All my kids were perfectly calm after a long trip. My oldest talked me down and through my little meltdown.

“Just go limp, pa. It’s ok”.

Hope he can be there to help me die…he was awesome…got me right off the ledge…[/quote]Totally agree.

[an]

[quote=zk]We had “UC Verde buffalo grass” for a while. It wasn’t bad, but it didn’t work for us. The water savings was less than I expected. It spread by runners, and if the runner hit established grass, it just died. So you’ve got hundreds of dead runners blowing all over, making a bit of a mess. Plus it’s brown in the winter. Just a couple things to keep in mind.[/quote]
I totally agree. It’s not for everyone. It does go brown/dormant in the depth of winter. Mine went brown for about a month. The solution for that is to spray paint it during its dormant time, which for me, is mid December to Mid January. It does send out runner and runner will die if it doesn’t hit dirt to create new roots. It doesn’t really both me much. But then again, I also love the natural prairie look, so I only mow about once a month. Mowing will get rid of the dead runners too.

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