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an
Participant[quote=SK in CV][quote=bearishgurl][quote=flyer]Personally, I think the real crazies in this election are those who actually believe any politician will make a difference in their lives–as time will inevitably tell–but it is fun to watch the show.[/quote]Well flyer, you can be assured that as a former “bureaucrat” myself, I harbor no illusions in this regard :=0
You’ve repeatedly brought up the “wealth gap” here as the biggest problem besetting our country.
Do you have any ideas on how it can be fixed … or at least lessened?[/quote]
I do. It’s taken 35 years to get into this mess. It won’t reverse quickly. It could take decades. The solution is to reverse current tax policy which taxes capital income more preferentially than labor income, and tax labor income at a lower rate than capital income. Flow of savings will then shift towards labor.[/quote]Do you think that tax policy would achieve that? Something tells me those who are in the top 10% will still continue to do well in that kind of tax environment while those depending on minimum wage would still be doing poorly. We all understand the power of compound interest, so, I think this tax proposal wouldn’t slow down the widening wealth gap. I think you’d need to be much more forceful to truly close the gap, if that’s your goal.
Participant[quote=flyer]Personally, I think the real crazies in this election are those who actually believe any politician can change the outcome of their lives–as time will inevitably reveal–but it is fun to watch the show.[/quote]
+1 yes, it’s fun watching the show. Until someone get hurt.Participant[quote=svelte][quote=carli]
…most everything bearishgurl is stating is completely inaccurate, false and made up in her own mind with no apparent basis in fact whatsoever.
[/quote]I decided this long ago, which is why I rarely if ever engage her anymore.
See March 1 2012, 6:13 PM:
http://piggington.com/mira_mesa_7510_bannister_ln_10_lost_in_less_than_one_year%5B/quote%5D
LoL, thanks for a blast from the past.Participant[quote=livinincali]The issue with measuring extremism is it’s relative to your own personal beliefs. If you’re pretty far left you won’t view any left leaning policies as extreme. In addition you will find more conservative policies to be extreme in contrast to your own views.
Take for example a wedding photographer that finds two men kissing offensive or something worse. In some people’s minds it’s perfectly fine for a gay couple to force that photographer to photograph that wedding under threat of discrimination lawsuit. It would be pretty extreme if I could force that photographer to take nude pics of a fat ugly chick. The photographer might find both things equally offensive but in one case we can probably agree that it would be pretty extreme and in the other we might not. It’s all relative to your own point of view.
If somebody suggested that all private property held as rentals should be taken over by the government so they could set the prices at affordable levels some of you might not view that as being extreme. The reality of such a proposal would be a significant step to outright communism, which most people would find extreme.[/quote]+1
You said it much better than I. I totally agree. Where you stand depends on where you sit.Participant[quote=SK in CV]You could be right on TPP. The thing is, Hillary didn’t have to make a 180. She never endorsed TPP. What she’s endorsed is the right fair trade agreement, and she never gave the TPP her seal of approval. Sanders has endorsed the exact same thing.
We disagree on the ACA (and I suspect, most of your reasons for not liking it has nothing to do with anything that’s in the law), but Bernie and Hillary don’t. What Sanders has proved, over and over again in his 25 years in congress, is that he can compromise. He compromised by voting for the ACA. Hillary probably would compromise earlier, but that doesn’t make either one of their positions extreme.
Their biggest difference is in foreign policy. Hillary can’t cut taxes enough for the middle class because she’s ready to go to war at an ugly fart, and won’t cut defense. Sanders can pay for all his programs with defense cuts. But cuts to defense are not an extreme position, except for those that think Iraq was a good idea.
Extreme is deporting 12 million people who haven’t caused any problems. Extreme is not allowing more than a billion people entry into the country because of what other people have done. Extreme is passing laws that endanger the lives of millions of women. Those are policies supported by every Republican candidate. How far do you think every Republican candidate is from deporting every single non-citizen Muslim, and rounding up all the Muslim citizens and putting them in internment camps? You tell me, is that a big stretch or a little stretch? And then tell me that both sides are similarly extreme.[/quote]Based on what I hear from Sanders about TPP, I don’t think he would ever give TPP or any other trade deal his approval. While Hillary, I think she would.
As for ACA, lets just say my company offered me a health care plan that was free last year and this year, a very similar plan cost me $1k/month. The company paid the same amount for me for health insurance.
I never said Sander is as extreme as Trump. I would vote for Sanders if it’s Sanders vs Trump. That shows you how much I hate Trump and how extreme I think he is. But to say Sander isn’t far left is IMHO not being honest. He described himself as a Democratic Socialist. Rubio, Bush, and Kasich are the 3 on the top of my head who don’t support deporting 12 million people.
As for the abortion, I’m playing Switzerland here. On one hand, I agree with you. But on the other, I also see the points of pro lifer who think killing off fetuses is killing people. You claim they’re extreme for endangering life of millions of women while they will say you’re extreme for killing millions of unborn children. I’ll just stand back on this issue and let the two extremes call each other extreme.
ParticipantAlthough Hillary is against TPP now, she was pretty open to TPP in the past. This is what I’m talking about in running to the left in primary and running back to the center during the general. I don’t think Bernie would ever support TPP, even in the general. That’s what’s the difference. Bill was pretty open to free trade (NAFTA).
ACA, I won’t even go there, since I dislike both stance on it. But there’s a difference. Hillary is willing to compromise about it, while Bernie want to go straight to single payer now (no middle ground).
As for taxes, you can chalk it up as gut feeling, since neither of them have given an exact tax plans with all the rates for all the brackets. However, as I said, Bernie offered up much more social benefits than Hillary, and that’s where I think in order to balance the budget, taxes would have to go up a lot more under Bernie than Hillary.
Participant[quote=SK in CV][quote=AN]I view Bernie as pretty extreme in comparison to Hillary and Bill.[/quote]
Be specific please. Extreme with regards to which policy position?[/quote]Taxes (Bernie is willing to go much higher than Hillary IMHO. He needs to, in order to pay for his social policies), trade (NAFTA, TPP), (to a much smaller extent) single payer healthcare (I personally don’t like either of their policy in this area, but I can see the differences between the two).
Participant[quote=FlyerInHi]AN, it’s interesting that you see the “wackos right” as you put it. Unless those “wackos” separate off and form their own party, or are ejected, they will stay with the Republicans.[/quote]
Another option is if Trump get the nomination and the centrist Republican coop another party.Participant[quote=SK in CV][quote=AN] I would hope the Dem have their chaos one day too. There are way too centrist on both side to allow the extreme of both party dictate the party platform. This whole, running to the left/right during the primary and run back to the middle for the general election is retarded to me.[/quote]
There are no policy extremes on the Dem side. The only real differences are the paths to getting there.[/quote]I view Bernie as pretty extreme in comparison to Hillary and Bill.
Participant[quote=SK in CV][quote=flyer]
Not at all. I’m saying that it doesn’t surprise me that, based upon the inequality of wealth in this country, perhaps the desperation of 90% of the population has led them to look for a political savior–which possibly explains the level of chaos and bs we are witnessing in the political arena on– both the right and the left.[/quote]I was with you until the last few words. There is no chaos on the Dem side. There is the establishment candidate that was expected to have an uncontested run to the nomination. There is a challenger. That part wasn’t expected. But there is no chaos.[/quote]I personally think chaos is good on the Republican side. Hopefully this will be the catalyst to separate the wacko right from the Republican who are moderate and would like to have things done. I would hope the Dem have their chaos one day too. There are way too centrist on both side to allow the extreme of both party dictate the party platform. This whole, running to the left/right during the primary and run back to the middle for the general election is retarded to me.
Participant[quote=svelte][quote=FlyerInHi]it was a lunch among friends that turned to sales pitch.
[/quote]They looked for a Republican actor to read the script read by said actor in the 1964 LBJ ad. The thoughts expressed in the ad are very likely not those of the actor.
http://www.snopes.com/confessions-of-a-republican/%5B/quote%5D
The reason I posted this thread in the first place was how thing hasn’t changed much. If it’s Hillary vs Trump, she could use this same script and a modern day Republican actor talking about Trump and it’s 100% accurate.Participant[quote=outtamojo]This is just sickening :
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2016/03/16/donald-trump-just-threatened-more-violence-only-this-time-its-directed-at-the-gop/Have we learned nothing about despots and dictators?
Plunge the country into chaos and protest with inflammatory policies, declare martial law, then there goes the Constitution we wear on our sleeves.
If the GOP had any guts at all they would expel him from the party. He could still run as an independent to represent his nut job supporters.[/quote]
+1.But somehow, I don’t think the GOP have the cajones to do such a thing. The big question then becomes, would the independents stay home or go out to vote for Hillary and the many non-Republicans for other races.
ParticipantWould be awesome if Hillary pick Bloomberg as VP. He would nullify Trump’s big wealth’s variable by saying, say, I have many more Billions than he does and we’ll self fund our campaign too. LoL.
Participant[quote=njtosd]Flu contended that white men weren’t being discriminated against because they are doing so well in corporate America. I think groups can be both discriminated against and successful – which was the point I was making.[/quote]I’m sure there are pocket discrimination. But as a whole, do you have data to back your claim that white men are being discriminated against? When, where, how, by who?
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