[an]

[quote=CA renter]Public employees tend to be the most qualified employees in their respective fields. Of course they expect to be compensated for it.[/quote]
Do you have proof on this assertion?

[an]

[quote=CDMA ENG]Hmmm…

I call shenigans on that one AN. Had an offer and turned it down cold. I have a great aunt and uncle over there (uncles retired with damn good pension) and they told me good things about the place including the 9 to 5 and nothing more but I did not find it even close to competive in terms of earnings…

I think I would have liked the job though… Back then it was called something like NAVSPAWAR or something else longer…[/quote]
When was this? In 2002, I had 2 classmates accepting offers at SPAWAR for $55k/year. Us who work in the private sector were getting $50-55k. So, either they lie or it was different in 2002 compare to when you got your offer.

I know someone who works at North Island and he have MANY friends at SPAWAR. He said the pay at SPAWAR is very competitive to private sector, but they also work you much harder(relatively to North Island), so he decide to stay at North Island. Take his 2 hour lunches, take a month each year off because of “use it or lose it” rule, work his 9-5, get his overtime when getting near deadline, etc. I ask him when he’ll retire and he told me he’s basically semi-retired. The work is super slow and laid back. There’s no point for him to retire since there’s little to no pressure at work.

[an]

TG, only you can say which one you like more. You can’t go wrong with either.

If you’re afraid of the repair bills, you might want to consider the fact that with a G37, you can bring your car to get it serviced at a Nissan dealer. You’ll save on the repair bill but you won’t get the pampered treatment. I can’t speak for BMW, but for Infiniti, you can buy your own parts and they’ll install it for you and only charge labor. I know Mercedes won’t do it, but I’m not sure about BMW. This will allow you to save some more $ on repair when the time comes. Buying parts online will always be cheaper.

[an]

[quote=sdrealtor]Don’t buy a 335 for value. Buy it fun.

Was just kidding bout the driver comment[/quote]
Yep, which is why if I have to pick between 335, G37, 328, I’d pick 335 > G37 > 328, due to their performance and fun factor.

On a side note, who here have taken their car(s) to the track (either autoX or real race track) and see what your car can really do while pushing it 9/10-10/10 of it’s capability. I used to and loved it. Will do it again when the kids are older.

[an]

[quote=sdrealtor]It depends whose driving[/quote]
Assuming both drivers are similar in skills.

Btw paramount, the g37 beat the 335 in 2008 on MT: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/112_0708_infiniti_g37_bmw_335/viewall.html

Here, the 335 win by 2 points: http://www.insideline.com/bmw/3-series/2007/comparison-test-2007-bmw-335i-vs-2008-infiniti-g37.html

Here’s a G37 beating out the 335 due to value. “Overall, I’d give the nod to the Infiniti G37 over the BMW 335 based on superior value. And unless you’re a die-hard BMW fan, the G37’s a no-brainer over the 328.”

Point is, the G37 and 335 are very close, 335 win in performance and the G37 win in value. It has been back and forth between G35 vs 330 and G37 vs 335 for awhile now and they both make each other better. But to compare the lowly 328 and to the G37 and say it’s the winner shows C&D’s bias. Win by two points because there was a 3 points differential in MPG. I love both BMW and Infiniti. If I want the best of the crop, I’d go with the 335i and if I want value, I’d go with the G37. The 328 offer neither best performance or value.

[an]

The g37 wasn’t a close second unless you put MPG high on your list. The numbers doesn’t lie. The G37 beat the 328i in all performance measures.

Infiniti didn’t just throw HP at BMW, they throw in handling and value. To say for the price, the 328 is near perfection sounds like fanboism. The $36k 328 doesn’t even have leather or power seat. Not to mention the lack of power. The g37 give you near 335 performance at 328 price.

Like I said, the 335 is better than the G37 but not the 328. Everyone know C&D loves BMW. Just read the review and not just the ranking. BMW rarely loses in a C&D comparing except for when it too decisive for them to play the numbers game.

335 engine is a huge difference than the 328. fyi, the g35 took the throne away from the 330 when it first came out. BMW only gain back the throne when the 335 came out. Again, even if you remove the MPG point difference, the g37 would have been the winner.

Also, the only time your 328 can blow past me is when I’m breaking. My 8 years old g35 is still faster than the 328 in both straight line and the twisty.

I’m not fighting, just pointing out the facts.

[an]

[quote=briansd1]I believe that it takes a great amount of intelligence to read the environment and present yourself in a socially attractive way.[/quote]
Didn’t you just describe GW Bush right there? It takes great amount of intelligence to read the environment and present yourself in a socially attractive way “to get elected 2 times”. With that reasoning, lets see if Obama is as intelligent as Bush to get himself elected the 2nd time.

[an]

[quote=sdrealtor]FWIW I just checked the total tax rate for the subject of this thread. With an income of 254K they are paying 13.2% federal taxes on that gross income and it was all earned income not speculative profits on investments.[/quote]
Game, set, match 😀

[an]

[quote=CA renter]
“The way you get rich in this world is not by working hard,” said Marty Sullivan, an economist and a contributing editor to Tax Analysts. “It’s by owning large amounts of assets and having those things appreciate in value.”[/quote]
Funny you quoted this. I would say this is common knowledge. My grandma, who can’t read and write would tell you the same thing. It has been this way for a very very long time in every nook and cranny of the world.

Some of the other arguments, I question whether it’s correlation vs causation. You can easily draw similar conclusion and say that the bottom 2 quantile tax rate have never paid less taxes than now and they never actually got money back until recent past.

Here’s the historical data for capital gain:
http://www.ctj.org/pdf/regcg.pdf

As you stated, the truly weathly, get their income from cap gain. Very few times in the last 90s years where cap gain was equal or more than top marginal tax.

We should go back to the tax rate of the 1913 🙂

[an]

[quote=CA renter]Don’t forget “the richest,” who pay 15% or less.

Yes, tax rates are near historic lows. That’s why some of us get so angry when hearing the weathiest Americans complain about paying taxes. They are wealthier today, and pay lower tax rates today, than they have in many, many, many decades.

As a matter of fact, the last time we saw such low tax rates and such a high wealth/income disparity was right before the Great Depression. Coincidence? I don’t think so.[/quote]
Did you even look at the link I posted? EVERYONE have been paying less effective tax rate except for the to 10%. The data doesn’t support your assertion that the top 10% pay lower tax rates today than they have in many decades. I provided my data, where’s your data to support your assertions?

[an]

[quote=CA renter]They’ve paid taxes all their lives if they’re getting SS.

Not only that, but SS recipients do have to pay taxes if their total income goes over a certain threshold.

If you’re referring to public employees who are now retired; as explained before, the money used to pay their benefits is not “govt” money. It is a separate fund that is paid for by the employees and employers as compensation for their services. They also pay taxes on their retirement income, just as they have paid taxes on their earned income — the very same taxes as those private sector workers who whine about public servants, and they pay a HIGHER tax rate than the wealthiest “investors,” who have sucked this country dry, yet still whine about the retirement benefits of public wokers.[/quote]
I’m referring to the retirees who actually were able to save money and live off their investment in retirement.

[an]

[quote=CA renter]IMHO, the most egregious part of our tax policy is the lower tax rate for those who don’t even work for their money. There is something horribly wrong with our country when financial speculators pay a lower tax rate than “line workers.”[/quote]
Don’t forget all the retirees and the many people who actually get money from the government instead of paying any taxes.

BTW, 75% of tax payer pays less than 15% effective tax rate. Only 25% pays more. Most of those in the 25% who pays more than 15% effective tax rate are what some would call “the rich”, those in the 33 & 35%.

Here are some historical effective federal tax rates for all households:
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=456
According to this data, everyone’s effective tax rate have been going down since 1979 except for the top quintile.

[an]

[quote=paramount]I wouldn’t say it’s much slower – I’d bet the 328i has a higher top speed and DOES have better handling.

Sure, 0-60 the G37 is faster (straight line) – in the twists I’d bet that power advantage rapidly disappears.

While my car was in the shop (due bill’s, not a breakdown) I had a 328i and it would churp in 2nd gear.

A 328i is definitely not slow.

Anyway, back to the review (328i vs. G37):

The fuel economy was the only “performance” category the 328i won. But that’s not why it won.

It won for a number of reasons: handling, it’s near perfect balance and many other reasons.

But there is one very special thing that the 328i/335 and other BMW’s have that the G37 does not: the magic of Double-VANOS.[/quote]
Here’s the comparison you’re probably referring to:
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/2009-infiniti-g37-vs-bmw-328i-audi-a4-and-acura-tl-comparison-tests
and here are the data from that comparo:
http://media.caranddriver.com/files/2009-infiniti-g37-vs-bmw-328i-audi-a4-and-acura-tlsportsedans-powertrain.pdf
http://media.caranddriver.com/files/2009-infiniti-g37-vs-bmw-328i-audi-a4-and-acura-tlsportsedans-chassis.pdf
http://media.caranddriver.com/files/2009-infiniti-g37-vs-bmw-328i-audi-a4-and-acura-tlsportsedans-vehicle.pdf

The G37 was over 1/2 a second faster than the 328i in the 1/4 miles and it continues to pull away. 0-120, it’s over 5 seconds faster. The 328i top speed is governed at 148MPH while the G37 top speed is governed at 156MPH. Considering how much faster the G37 got to 120MPH, I’m sure it’ll get to its governed top speed much quicker than the 328i too. It’s quieter at both idle and cruising but louder at full throttle. WRT the chassis, they both tie at .92G for road holding, the G37 was faster in the lane change. The 328i did stop faster by 1 foot from 70MPH. The G37 was also longer, wider, taller and more interior space. The only decisive win for the 328i was the fuel economy portion. So, your assertion that the G37 performance will lose ground in the twisty is baseless and the numbers doesn’t show it.

BTW, here’s a quick explanation of what Double-VANOS does:
[quote=Wikipidia]Double VANOS
The first double VANOS system appeared on the S50B32 engine in 1996. Later, BMW added “double” VANOS to its M52TU series of inline 6-cylinder engines, which changed the mechanism from fixed position operation to continuously variable, and added the same functionality to the exhaust camshaft, on a number of its cars. Double-VANOS (double-variable camshaft control) significantly improves torque and emissions since valve timing on both the intake and exhaust camshafts is adjusted to the power required from the engine as a function of gas pedal position and engine speed. On all BMW engines that use single VANOS, except S50B30, the timing of the intake cam is only changed at two distinct rpm points, while on the double-VANOS system, the timing of the intake and exhaust cams is continuously variable through a range of ~40 crankshaft degrees for the intake, and 25 degrees for the exhaust. The advantage of double-VANOS is that the system controls the flow of hot exhaust gases into the intake manifold individually for all operating conditions. This is referred to as “internal” exhaust gas re-circulation, allowing very fine dosage of the amount of exhaust gas recycled.[/quote]

So, it’s nothing more than a term to describe variable valve timing. Just so you know, MANY automakers have variable valve timing on both intake and exhaust. So, Double-VANOS isn’t anything magical. The G37 not only have variable valve timing like Double-VANOS called CVTCS (which stands for Continuously Variable Valve Timing Control System), it also have variable valve lift (think Valvetronic for BMW, VVTL for Toyota, and VTEC for Honda). AFAIK, the 328i doesn’t have Valvetronic but the 335i does. The variable valve lift technology in the G37 is called VVEL.

I do agree that the BMW is closest to 50/50 weight distribution. However, that didn’t help it in its handling numbers. Here’s a quote from the article about the 328i:
[quote=C&D]The 328i topped just one performance category, but it’s one that is increasing in social if not economic importance—fuel economy.[/quote]

Again, I think 335i>G37>328i. Performance wise, the 328 is no match, but it did get better MPG and according to C&D, it’s the one that’s increasing in social if not economic importance.

Here’s the final result:
http://media.caranddriver.com/files/2009-infiniti-g37-vs-bmw-328i-audi-a4-and-acura-tlsportsedans-final-results.pdf
As you can see, C&D rate the G37 and the 328i the same in the chassis department except for steering feel, which the 328i edge out by 1 point.

Here are what they say about the two cars and tell me which one has better performance and luxury:
[quote=328i]2009 BMW 328i

First place: Conspicuous consumption lite.

If Moses had brought down from the big guy himself, chiseled into stone, the chart for rating cars, maybe we’d have a different conclusion here. But he didn’t. So we calls ’em as we sees ’em. Yeah, this is subjective, but we think BMW has a special way with sports sedans.

This car is so seductive that it’s almost embarrassing to read through the comment book: “Love the look, the way the skin stretches tightly over the machinery.” Or: “This is one Crisco-smooth ride.” And: “Clutch and shifter are the same as always, perfect.” Then: “Best shifter and clutch on the planet” and “Great back-road partner” and “Laser-straight steering welcome on long straights” and finally, “Six-cylinder sounds top Beethoven’s best.”

You get the idea. But the subjective side had to push hard against nagging reality. This stripper of a 3-series raises some value issues. Yes, the $36,475 as-tested price is lowest of the quartet, but fake leather on the seats? (BMW calls it leatherette.) No power on those many sport-seat adjusters? No satellite radio?

Add to that a short list of significant annoyances: “The fact that the radio display blanks out when wearing polarized lenses is, frankly, stupid. What is this, 1983?”

The starting ritual raises questions, too. “Why must I insert the remote fob into its dock, then move my hand to the start button? Why is that better than a key?”

“Why are the HVAC controls down by my knees?” And: “BMW must be the last holdout against indicating the fuel-filler location on the gas gauge.”

The 328i topped just one performance category, but it’s one that is increasing in social if not economic importance—fuel economy. Although the Audi does significantly better by the EPA method—23 mpg combined versus 21—the BMW outscored all on our 350-mile test trip at 25 mpg compared with 23 for the Audi, 21 for the Acura, and 19 for the Infiniti.

As a passenger hauler, we judged the BMW to be a shade better than the Audi for two in back but not enough for a full point. It has superior kneeroom, but the rear wheels encroach on the backrest, forcing occupants toward the center of the seat. Forget adding a third adult (none of the others will accept a third, though for different reasons).

In the last meeting of this category in January 2008, we summed up this way: “What the 328i does better than its peers is combine the ingredients of the perfect sports sedan: driving dynamics and luxury.” The luxury component has weakened significantly since, leaving a margin that’s sliver thin.[/quote]
[quote=G37]2009 Infiniti G37 Sport

Second place: Conspicuous consumption lite.

In that narrow slice of marketing terrain where sports sedan overlaps muscle car is where you’ll find this mid-size Infiniti. Will it exercise the neck muscles? Have no doubts.

Will it satisfy your need for speed? Oh, yes, in megadoses.

When the votes were tallied, the BMW 328i came out on top again this time but by a very small margin: two points. At the track, the Infiniti shamed the Bimmer in every contest except for skidpad (a tie). In acceleration, the chase wasn’t even close, with the G37 ahead by a half-second at 60 mph—5.4 seconds versus 5.9—and leading by 6 mph at the quarter-mile. The G37’s gap was narrower but still significant in the lane change. In braking, its one-foot-out performance from 70 mph—159 feet versus the BMW’s 160—is almost certainly insignificant, but we’ll call that one for the G on the superior detailing of its calipers, finished in glowing satin metallic etched with a subtle Infiniti logo.

The G37 Sport, designated by a red “S” on the tail—plus a subtly reshaped fascia and sill treatments—gets a six-speed manual, shorter final-drive gearing with a viscous limited slip, quicker steering, and very large brakes: 14.0-inch discs in front, 13.8s in back, all vented. Inside, there’s a highly supportive sport seat with power adjusters to tailor thigh and torso bolsters.

All of our drivers were put off at first by the heavy, abrupt clutch feel, and the shift lever slipped into sixth gear only after a Google search. But by the second day of driving, the complaints were gone. This is a serious machine: planted, professional, poised. The steering always knows how to find straight-ahead, and the effort builds progressively as you turn. Unlike most of the others, the brakes are not overboosted. They have a linear feel, just right for holding the edge of the friction circle as you trail-brake into curves.

The cockpit supports vigorous motoring. There’s a rest for your left foot in exactly the right place. The tilting column moves the instrument cluster so the dials are always centered within the wheel. The buttons and rockers on the wheel are the easiest of all to use. Only the buttons for shuttling through the trip-computer screens are an awkward reach.

There were a few Darth Vader cracks about the all-black interior, but the rice-paper finish of the metal trim contrasts beautifully.[/quote]

[an]

[quote=sdrealtor]A line worker is one who works in production or at a staff level position. Not a management position responsible for a dept or with employees below them they are reponsible for. Its not a derogatory description and so nice of you to try to make it sound so. If anything its a very clinical term.

While you are here CAR instead of being noticably absent from this thread do you think a $250K household income is a normal reasonable income for a couple of young 30ish public sector employees? Additionally as you often claim public sector workers are underpaid relative to the private sector do you think they’d be making over 300K in the private sector as non-business owners or SR management? You do realize that income puts them in the top 1 or 2 % of wage earners in the country and thats without considering the generous retirement contributions made on their behalf.[/quote]
I’d love to see data to back up the claim that public employees make much less than private employees for the same position. Base on my anecdotal, I don’t see it. When I graduated many years ago, classmates who got into SPAWAR were getting paid just as much as those who got jobs in the private sector. AFAIK, nurses at VA hospital is making about the same as nurses at Scripps. Nurses at UCSD is making more than nurses at Scripps. Nurses at Scripps are making more than nurses at Sharp.

[an]

[quote=sdrealtor]FWIW I never understood the difference between the 328 and the 335 until I owned one. They look the same but the driving experience is completely different. I just drove my friends 328 (sportpkg) back from Santa Barbara yesterday and it is nothing like driving my 335. One is a very nice sports sedan and the other is a high performance sports car.[/quote]
Yep, one has 230-240 HP and one have low 300 HP (335 is underrated at 300, but many dyno have shown that it should be rated around 320-330HP). The G37 is also 330HP. That 100 HP will be the different between “common, get going already” and “c-ya suckas”. Some people are fine with 230HP, but they’re two very different beast (G37 vs 328i).

[Author]

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