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an
ParticipantI hope that’s the case.
Participantflyer, in that case, aren’t you describing the exact example of high risk = high return? Your friends took the high risk route, which didn’t work out and they lost a lot. But if it did work out, then they would have been a lot better off than if they took the safer investment route. There’s no right or wrong. Everybody have their own style and desire. This has nothing to do with income vs expense btw.
I agree with you that there is no easy answer. Especially if you want to make the bottom 95% richer and not the top 5% poorer. While CAR’s suggestion would definitely close the wealth gap by making the top 1-5% poorer. I don’t foresee it making the bottom richer or making the top .99% poorer. The top .99% will find away to move their money/income offshore. In this day and age, you don’t have to physically be in any specific location to do a lot of the business. Especially the headquarter.
ParticipantI wonder if I would have to get a Capital One card or can I use any Mastercard.
Participant[quote=livinincali][quote=flyer]
As far as exploring the possible options available in closing the “wealth gap,” I’m very much enjoying reading the in-depth analysis both you and CAr are providing. This is a big issue, and one that I believe will effect more and more people as time goes on.
[/quote]The answer to closing the wealth gap is super simple. When the next crash occurs, DON’T BAIL ANYBODY OUT. The end. It’s really that simple. In most cases one man’s wealth is another man’s debt. Let the bad debt go bad and the wealth gap resolves itself.[/quote]I agree 100%. No more bail out. I’d love to pick up some rentals pennies on the dollar the next time around.
Participant[quote=CA renter]1.) Restrict the ratio of highest-paid to lowest-paid people who work for or own a particular corporation (including ALL types of compensation to any individual). If they want the benefits of incorporation (basically spreading the risks), then they should have to pay for those benefits by spreading the rewards, as well.
2.) Tax ALL income at the same, steeply progressive rates.
3.) Eliminate the ability to step-up the cost basis of assets for heirs of large estates. Adjust the cost basis by some sort of inflation factor instead in order to avoid being taxed on “inflation.”
4.) Universal healthcare for all U.S. citizens. Medical costs are one of the leading causes of bankruptcy. Unfortunately, if someone is stricken with a devastating illness, they are often unable to work (and maintain affordable insurance) at the very same time that they need this insurance. We pay the highest medical costs for some of the worst outcomes, respectively. Americans desperately need to wake up and learn more about the different healthcare systems and their outcomes.
5.) Lift the cap on income subject to SS taxes, increase SS contributions from both employees and employers, and increase the benefits with the possibility of adjusting the benefits based on needs.
6.) Consider imposing tariffs on “U.S. companies” (and foreign companies?) that do most of the manufacturing overseas if they want to sell goods in the U.S. These costs should offset any differences in labor and environmental standards between the two countries.
If the company isn’t paying for all of the legal, physical, social, and other infrastructure provided by our government (because they are doing most of their work overseas), they should have to buy the right to be a U.S. company with all of the protections and benefits that this affords them.
Just these steps alone would greatly reduce the income and wealth gaps, while still allowing people the ability to save for retirement and enjoy a decent quality of life.[/quote]
1)What would that ratio be? I wonder how this will affect CEO’s decisions, especially regarding inversions to bypass this all together.
2)This wouldn’t matter if the company is non-American (inversion).
3)What would be considered large?
4)This a whole other debate, but sure, reform of our healthcare system. There is a reason why the rich people from other countries come here for healthcare.
5)So, what you’re saying is, the richer you are, the more you pay, but the less you’ll get and the poorer you are, the less you pay into the system but they more you’ll get. How can such system be sustainable?
6)So, you’re imposing tarriffs on most companies. Most tech products are made overseas. Wouldn’t this give companies one extra reason to invert? Since they’ll have tarriffs imposed on them anyways?
Wouldn’t this also cause a trade ware against other nations? How does this help the little guys in the bottom rung if everything they buy becomes more expensive? Wouldn’t that eat up any gain their get from income increase?Participant[quote=joec]If you’re self employed, I think you’re also required to use “net” profits now as income. That makes it so you now may not qualify if you want to minimize your taxes in a given year…Want to contribute to your retirement? Maybe skip it a year to jack up your income to qualify for a refi…[/quote]I thought self employed people don’t have any more tools to minimize their taxes compare to W2-er?
Participant[quote=The-Shoveler]Most of the wealth Gap is being caused by wages not keeping up with inflation at the lower end of the wage spectrum.
Of course the ultra rich will still be ultra rich, just that the just that the lower would stop falling behind.[/quote]I actually don’t mind having minimum wage being tied with inflation. However, I don’t think minimum wage will affect wealth gap. I define wealth gap as net worth. People in the bottom quintile will most like spend all that they make, so giving them more will only put more money in the system. I don’t think it will allow them to save more. They will either live better or increase the cost of goods faster (inflation).
Participant[quote=flyer]AN, I, of course, truly don’t have the answer to the ultimate solution–wish I did.
That said, some of the friends I mentioned who were literally “at the top,” have now fallen into the “silent wealth gap,” and I increasingly hear stories like that everyday. The fact is, they could have done something about it before it got away from them, via more conservative planning, etc. (i.e. keep the million+ rather than spend it all.)
I think the real point I’m making is that, virtually anyone of us can fall into the “wealth gap” regardless of which quintile in which we may currently abide.[/quote]If your friends who were “at the top”, how can they fall into the “silent wealth gap” if they have proper insurance? That’s the whole point of insurance, isn’t it? For exactly unforeseen situations. So, if they were at the top, then they should have plenty of money to pay for the proper amount of insurance to maintain their life style.
As for keeping millions rather spending it, I totally agree. Net worth is very fluid and can change dramatically. Just look at all the sport stars and movie stars. There are many of them who were millionaires who end up being broke after their career end, because they spend like their millions in income will keep on rolling in indefinitely. But I think this problem apply to all quintile, not just the top 5%. If you spend like your income is indefinite, you will be broke when your income stop coming in. If you spend more than you make, you will be broke sooner than that.
Participantflyer, I understand your concern regarding wealth gap with regards to societal viewpoint. However, I think we’re far from the breaking point, where it would start to result in revolution. I think as long as the middle 3 quintile are employed and have a decent life, things will continue to chug along.
With that said, what would be your proposal to close the gap (meaningfully)? The only solution that I think would work is a wealth tax. I don’t think raising the minimum wage will do it, since it will just put more money into the system and the rich will also benefit from additional money in the system as well. It might end up negatively affect the 2nd & 3rd quintile more than the top 5% and the 4th quintile.
Participant[quote=The-Shoveler]IMO the biggest contributor to the “wealth gap issues”, is not having minimum wage tied to inflation,
It effects the all the lower rungs a lot more than the upper income rungs.Minimum wage has fallen further and further behind leaving the lower rung’s further and further behind.[/quote]I’m not so sure that will affecct the wealth gap. If you increase minimum wage, those people will turn around and probably spend every extra dollar they make. Which will only make the wealthy people even richer.
ParticipantThe problem I see with the “wealth gap issues” is, what can you possibly do to reverse the trend? The only way I can see the trend reversing is if you start taxing wealth dramatically and distribute that tax to everyone else.
As you can see, under both republicans and democrats, the top 5% have been doing extremely well. The 4th and 3rd Quintile did pretty well as well.The way I see it is, you can try and have an equal playing field, but you can’t guarantee an equal result. There will always be smarter people and dumber people. There will always be lucky people and unlucky people. I can go on and on about different circumstances that will affect the outcome. The point is, there are just too much variables that affect the outcome for you to try and control the outcome. Unless you wait for the outcome to happen and then come in and do a wealth redistribution.
Participant[quote=utcsox]The point to bring this thread back is to look back things that were said in 2012. Was BLS faking the number? Was the tax increase and Obamacare prevent business to hire? Was the “real inflation” rate as high as 10% if you factor in food cost?
I think the answer is pretty obvious. Of course, now we want to talk about something else….[/quote]The answer is obvious in what way? “Lies, damned lies, and statistics”?
ParticipantAre these chart adjusted for population size? How about GDP growth, isn’t that a better metric than S&P appreciation? How about income inequality? How about the % of the population on food stamp and welfare? What about labor participation rate? What about the fed pumping money and fed fund rate being at 0% affect S&P appreciation? What about the deregulation of the banking sector under Clinton? Doesn’t that also affect the volatility of the stock market? How about real income growth? S&P appreciation tells me richer people are getting even richer. Is that your point?
Participant[quote=spdrun]Run it on good hardware and it’s plenty responsive. Windows phone is a bad joke, iOS is slightly better.[/quote]I’m running it on the best chip on the market today. It’s still a joke. Project butter was a joke. If you consider animation stuttering, button press respond a second later is responsive, pressing home button takes a second or two to see the home screen, then another second or two for your icons to load in, etc. Now, that’s a bad joke. On either Windows or iOS, you’ll never see a button press taking more than a few hundred milliseconds to respond and transition animations are always buttery smooth. You don’t see frame rate drop during transition animation like Android.
FYI, 512MB-1GB devices with processors from 2 years ago running iOS and Windows are A LOT smoother than 2GB Android devices running the latest and greatest processor. Try and run Android on a Snapdragon S4 with 512MB Ram and tell me it’s plenty responsive.
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