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Allan from Fallbrook
Participant[quote=mike92104]If we’re just going to pull up random news stories:
Senior Citizen Shoots Armed Robbers at Internet Cafe
http://www.gunsandammo.com/2012/07/18/senior-citizen-shoots-armed-robbers-at-internet-cafe/
14-Year-Old Boy Shoots Armed Intruder in Home
http://www.gunsandammo.com/2012/07/02/14-year-old-boy-shoots-armed-intruder-i-home/
Teen Mother Kills Armed Intruder, Becomes National Sensation
http://www.gunsandammo.com/2012/01/07/sarah-mckinley/#ixzz2WRCFEBvY%5B/quote%5D
Uh, Mike, we cannot have these kinds of stories! They don’t comport with the narrative of “Guns = Bad” that KIBU is trying to spread.
How can we have an “honest” conversation when you start throwing counter-revolutionary bullshit like facts and evidence into the mix?
Sheesh.
June 16, 2013 at 9:16 PM in reply to: Another excellent Economist Mag article on the terrible state pension issues #762844ParticipantI don’t remember where I saw the article, but it had to do with changes in accounting regs that were going to make various states’ pension woes even worse, due to a more realistic approach to investing assumptions and rates of return.
California was accorded significant mention, as our unfunded liabilities were going to skyrocket even further.
Very sobering read.
Participant[quote=ocrenter][quote=Allan from Fallbrook]Fun facts about knives:
– Always loaded.
– They never jam.
I like the idea of registering them. We should probably also register hammers and screwdrivers, too. Have a form to fill out at the Craftsman counter at Sears.[/quote]
Biggest problem with knives is the ones that can stab 20-30 people within minutes. I say make sure we register and regulate these semi-automatic knives capable inducing mass killings within minutes.[/quote]
OCR: I’m far more concerned with the poor perpetrators of such mass killings. Stabbing that many people in such a short period of time will undoubtedly cause severe carpal tunnel syndrome. Have we thought about how we’re gonna handle this? Does Obamacare have a provision for this?
Participant[quote=CDMA ENG]
But I will say this. I takes a lot more to kill with a knife than a gun.
CE[/quote]
CE: Ya definitely gots to be closer…
ParticipantFun facts about knives:
– Always loaded.
– They never jam.
I like the idea of registering them. We should probably also register hammers and screwdrivers, too. Have a form to fill out at the Craftsman counter at Sears.
Participant[quote=KIBU]cnn: Four fatally shot
“The unidentified owner of A K Home Health Care is believed to be the gunman, police said. The others appeared to be employees.
After a review of evidence, including a surveillance video, officers determined there had been an argument in the office of the business, Capt. Michael Sack told reporters”.http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/13/us/missouri-shooting/%5B/quote%5D
KIBU: It’s interesting, but you continually post on spree killings, while apparently ignoring ALL other types of gun violence, most notably black-on-black violence. Are you aware of the epidemic of shootings in Chicago?
If we’re going to be honest about problems related to gun violence, like the woeful state of mental health care in the US, I think we also need to face the consequences of decades of race positive government programs that have destroyed the black nuclear family and have created a nihilistic and permanent underclass with an out-of-wedlock birthrate approaching 70%, a high school dropout rate in excess of 50% and where homicide is the leading case of death among young black males.
Are YOU willing to be HONEST and admit that this is a PROBLEM? Or, does this strike too close to home, in terms of your political beliefs? Akin to Obama offering a “teachable moment” in the Trayvon Martin shooting, while completely ignoring what was happening in the streets of his adopted Chicago.
ParticipantParticipant[quote=FlyerInHi]SK is right. If Assad win, Iran wins. Israel and SA have more at stake than we do. For us, the hesitation to get in there is justified.
So we provide arms to bearded Islamists, never mind that could come back and bite us in the ass later.
What are the French and Brits’ motivations in this. The French first provided the sarin evidence. The Brits confirmed, then we followed
Whenever I see McCain on TV I cringe.[/quote]
The French and the British are watching the Russians, who are playing their own version of the Great Game. Russians are seeking to exploit this opportunity to push back on a US-led effort to contain Iran, as well as push Russian interests in the arms and energy markets.
Putin would enjoy nothing more than watching Obama and the US get humiliated.
As far as Saudi influence goes, it’s huge but it’s also quiet. Spend some time in Amman, or Dubai or, better yet, Qatar, to really see it at work. Israeli focus is on putting Iranian hardliners out of business (both for the nuke threat and support for Hezbollah and Hamas). Saudis are playing a longer game and seeing the Alawites in Syria get shown the door fits into their long-term strategy.
Participant[quote=SK in CV][quote=Allan from Fallbrook]And, in other news, America arms al-Qaeda, uh, I mean “rebels”, in Syrian civil war.
This should work out really well…[/quote]
Yeah, I don’t know if it’s exactly the same. But certainly close enough for discomfort. Doing nothing would be preferable.[/quote]
SK: Yup, we need to stay as far from this shit as possible. The “win” in this situation is if Assad is unseated by the rebels (not all of whom, as you correctly stated, are affiliated with al-Qaeda, but plenty of them are.)
That would mean that al-Qaeda and/or other jihadis would have ready access to the Syrian Army’s stockpile of chem weapons, including Sarin.
Good times.
It should also disabuse anyone of the notion that this administration is any less in bed with the Saudis than previous administrations were.
ParticipantAnd, in other news, America arms al-Qaeda, uh, I mean “rebels”, in Syrian civil war.
This should work out really well…
Participant[quote=KIBU]I read the post twice and I will restate my questions:
1. Is “yes, we have a problem” an “isolated” problem or not?
2. What exactly is “yes, we have a problem” ?
Until one is honest with the answer, don’t preach.[/quote]
KIBU: Don’t preach? From the person who wants to tell us how to run our lives? Oy gevalt.
Since you and I already know what your plan looks like, let me save you the trouble and spell it out: TOTAL GUN BAN.
We could doll it up and make it alliterative: KIBU’s Komplete & Komprehensive Kapture Konfab.
Bottom line: Take all the guns. And that will magically solve the problem, right? I notice you haven’t answered the other posters queries on this topic because you know if you’re forced into actually divulging details, well, that’s when the wheels come off the wagon.
ParticipantFIH: The group I shoot with counts two attorneys, a doctor (pediatrics, interestingly enough), a former USAF flight surgeon and a former USMC intel officer (colonel) in its ranks.
When I was in high school, I shot competition sporting clays at Los Altos Rod & Gun Club. You couldn’t throw a rock without hitting an attorney, or educator from Stanford, or Silicon Valley bigwig.
I was raised around guns, as my dad was a former Marine DI and member of the Marine Rifle Team. He also happened to be an aerospace engineer in Palo Alto with an MS in Aeronautical Engineering. My uncle was also an avid shooter and flew jets for the Marines in WWII and Korea. He had an MBA from Stanford and spent his whole career with Merrill Lynch in investment banking.
I could go on about former Army officers I served with who remain shooters, all of whom have undergrad degrees, as an absolute minimum, but what’s the point?
Facts getting in the way of a good story and all…
Participant[quote=KIBU][quote=Allan from Fallbrook] My point, which bears repeating as it is actually supported by real evidence, is that for every isolated Santa Monica-type shooting (and, yes, statistically speaking, they are isolated), there are thousands of instances where firearms (not just HANDGUNS) are used to protect life and property.[/quote]
So is the problem an “isolated” problem? Does a minority of data just automatically mean it’s “isolated” ?
Describe what you mean by “yes we have a problem” ?
Until the pro-guns accepts that this country
have a serious problem with guns, their asking of solution are just games. How can you have a solution to a non-problem??? Logic 101 right?[/quote]KIBU: You’re too much. I don’t know what a “minority of data” are, but I’m presuming you mean when a small dataset (as a subset of a much larger dataset) is referenced, then, yes, it is isolated in the sense that it’s not the larger, and thus more prevalent, dataset.
In this case, mass killing using an assault rifle, is isolated. Gun deaths from other causes are far more prevalent. The FBI maintains annual statistics on gun deaths and causes, please feel free to look it up (in other words, don’t take my pro-gun word for it).
You titled this thread “Chaos”. The definition of chaos is “utter confusion or disorder”. Taking that definition and the referenced event (the Santa Monica shootings), one can likely infer that you believe that this shooting represents some sort of societal breakdown.
However, the statistics (as per the FBI) simply don’t bear this out. Gun related crime has been in steady decline (see FBI Uniform Crime statistics and CDC reportage) and gun-related homicides mirror the decline referenced above.
So, if I put my Logic 101 hat on and review the actual data, I find that the use of the word “Chaos” is spurious and hyperbolic and not at all consistent with the data and evidence.
Now, being completely logical and juxtaposing this with your persistent and consistent unwillingness to give a straight answer and instead duck, bob and weave in order to avoid doing so, one is left with the presumption that this is nothing other than a political agenda at work, masked by “concern” over the gun “problem” (as you define it).
Participant[quote=KIBU][quote=Allan from Fallbrook] Yes, we have a problem. What’s the solution? With details, please.[/quote]
Is this an “isolated” problem?[/quote]
KIBU: Yeah, as I suspected, you’re just playing semantical games and have no interest in a serious, meaningful dialogue.
I answered your question, now please answer mine. I’m all too familiar with the Clintonian approach to parsing words and have no interest in playing games.
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