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August 15, 2008 at 2:05 PM in reply to: Off Topic: Curious about how others feel about the Georgian/Russian war #257730August 15, 2008 at 2:05 PM in reply to: Off Topic: Curious about how others feel about the Georgian/Russian war #257776
Allan from Fallbrook
Participantesmith: American soldiers had been fighting since 1942 (Operation Torch in North Africa), After the blooding at Kasserine Pass, the leadership improved tremendously, and by the time the Allies landed in Normandy in 1944, it was a well-led, well-trained and effective fighting force.
Battles like Mortain and Falaise Gap showed that the Americans were more than capable against their German foes, and the fighting during the Ardennes Offensive showed not only American fighting spirit, but tremendous resolve.
As to the casualty ratio you mention during Berlin, the fact is that the Russians were fighting primarily Volksturm (Home Guard) and depleted Wehrmacht and Waffen SS units. It is well known that the Russians were close to being out of gas at this point, and their first line Guards units had been savaged after four years of battle.
The Wehrmacht maintainted offensive operations on the Eastern Front up until summer of 1943 (Operation Citadel in the Kursk salient), and continued to inflict grievous casualties on the Red Army throughout the balance of the war.
In comparison, the US Army grew even more effective and efficient, and American artillery was among the most feared in the war. Generals like Patton, and up-and-comers like Creighton Abrams, continued to refine armored warfare and, by war’s end, we possessed a battle hardened army with tremendous offensive punch.
The 2:1 Soviet superiority includes second and third tier infantry units, which were made up of ethnic minorities and used primarily as cannon fodder against the Germans in order to get them to commit to a sector on the battlefield where the Russians could hit them with superior artillery and air power. Not an apples to apples comparison by any means.
August 15, 2008 at 2:05 PM in reply to: Off Topic: Curious about how others feel about the Georgian/Russian war #257820Allan from Fallbrook
Participantesmith: American soldiers had been fighting since 1942 (Operation Torch in North Africa), After the blooding at Kasserine Pass, the leadership improved tremendously, and by the time the Allies landed in Normandy in 1944, it was a well-led, well-trained and effective fighting force.
Battles like Mortain and Falaise Gap showed that the Americans were more than capable against their German foes, and the fighting during the Ardennes Offensive showed not only American fighting spirit, but tremendous resolve.
As to the casualty ratio you mention during Berlin, the fact is that the Russians were fighting primarily Volksturm (Home Guard) and depleted Wehrmacht and Waffen SS units. It is well known that the Russians were close to being out of gas at this point, and their first line Guards units had been savaged after four years of battle.
The Wehrmacht maintainted offensive operations on the Eastern Front up until summer of 1943 (Operation Citadel in the Kursk salient), and continued to inflict grievous casualties on the Red Army throughout the balance of the war.
In comparison, the US Army grew even more effective and efficient, and American artillery was among the most feared in the war. Generals like Patton, and up-and-comers like Creighton Abrams, continued to refine armored warfare and, by war’s end, we possessed a battle hardened army with tremendous offensive punch.
The 2:1 Soviet superiority includes second and third tier infantry units, which were made up of ethnic minorities and used primarily as cannon fodder against the Germans in order to get them to commit to a sector on the battlefield where the Russians could hit them with superior artillery and air power. Not an apples to apples comparison by any means.
Allan from Fallbrook
ParticipantDan: It’s Inara, not Enorah. Played by Morena Baccarin, a heavy duty hottie.
Yeah, I better stop right there.
Little point of interest: Whedon came up with the idea after reading Shaara’s “The Killer Angels”, which was a novel about Gettysburg.
Given your eclectism and generally tweaky (in a good way) persona, I thought you’d enjoy the trivia.
Great show, which is why the powers-that-be cancelled it.
Allan from Fallbrook
ParticipantDan: It’s Inara, not Enorah. Played by Morena Baccarin, a heavy duty hottie.
Yeah, I better stop right there.
Little point of interest: Whedon came up with the idea after reading Shaara’s “The Killer Angels”, which was a novel about Gettysburg.
Given your eclectism and generally tweaky (in a good way) persona, I thought you’d enjoy the trivia.
Great show, which is why the powers-that-be cancelled it.
Allan from Fallbrook
ParticipantDan: It’s Inara, not Enorah. Played by Morena Baccarin, a heavy duty hottie.
Yeah, I better stop right there.
Little point of interest: Whedon came up with the idea after reading Shaara’s “The Killer Angels”, which was a novel about Gettysburg.
Given your eclectism and generally tweaky (in a good way) persona, I thought you’d enjoy the trivia.
Great show, which is why the powers-that-be cancelled it.
Allan from Fallbrook
ParticipantDan: It’s Inara, not Enorah. Played by Morena Baccarin, a heavy duty hottie.
Yeah, I better stop right there.
Little point of interest: Whedon came up with the idea after reading Shaara’s “The Killer Angels”, which was a novel about Gettysburg.
Given your eclectism and generally tweaky (in a good way) persona, I thought you’d enjoy the trivia.
Great show, which is why the powers-that-be cancelled it.
Allan from Fallbrook
ParticipantDan: It’s Inara, not Enorah. Played by Morena Baccarin, a heavy duty hottie.
Yeah, I better stop right there.
Little point of interest: Whedon came up with the idea after reading Shaara’s “The Killer Angels”, which was a novel about Gettysburg.
Given your eclectism and generally tweaky (in a good way) persona, I thought you’d enjoy the trivia.
Great show, which is why the powers-that-be cancelled it.
August 15, 2008 at 12:40 PM in reply to: Off Topic: Curious about how others feel about the Georgian/Russian war #257456Allan from Fallbrook
Participantdumbrenter: That would be the same Zhukov that suffered 300,000 casualties taking Berlin in 1945? Patton’s maneuvering of his 3rd Army to relieve Bastogne during the Ardennes Offensive ranks among the most brilliant armored thrusts of WWII.
He was widely considered the best Allied general (not just American) by the German General Staff, and this included generals of the caliber of Erich von Manstein.
Zhukov’s units had been bled white during the final push from the Oder, and I have no doubt that Patton would have waxed his ass.
His “failures” had nothing to do with his generalship, but his abrasive personality and unwillingness to put up with political BS. The same BS that allowed Montgomery to retain his position even after his failures during Normandy (Caen) and Holland (Operation Market-Garden).
August 15, 2008 at 12:40 PM in reply to: Off Topic: Curious about how others feel about the Georgian/Russian war #257639Allan from Fallbrook
Participantdumbrenter: That would be the same Zhukov that suffered 300,000 casualties taking Berlin in 1945? Patton’s maneuvering of his 3rd Army to relieve Bastogne during the Ardennes Offensive ranks among the most brilliant armored thrusts of WWII.
He was widely considered the best Allied general (not just American) by the German General Staff, and this included generals of the caliber of Erich von Manstein.
Zhukov’s units had been bled white during the final push from the Oder, and I have no doubt that Patton would have waxed his ass.
His “failures” had nothing to do with his generalship, but his abrasive personality and unwillingness to put up with political BS. The same BS that allowed Montgomery to retain his position even after his failures during Normandy (Caen) and Holland (Operation Market-Garden).
August 15, 2008 at 12:40 PM in reply to: Off Topic: Curious about how others feel about the Georgian/Russian war #257655Allan from Fallbrook
Participantdumbrenter: That would be the same Zhukov that suffered 300,000 casualties taking Berlin in 1945? Patton’s maneuvering of his 3rd Army to relieve Bastogne during the Ardennes Offensive ranks among the most brilliant armored thrusts of WWII.
He was widely considered the best Allied general (not just American) by the German General Staff, and this included generals of the caliber of Erich von Manstein.
Zhukov’s units had been bled white during the final push from the Oder, and I have no doubt that Patton would have waxed his ass.
His “failures” had nothing to do with his generalship, but his abrasive personality and unwillingness to put up with political BS. The same BS that allowed Montgomery to retain his position even after his failures during Normandy (Caen) and Holland (Operation Market-Garden).
August 15, 2008 at 12:40 PM in reply to: Off Topic: Curious about how others feel about the Georgian/Russian war #257698Allan from Fallbrook
Participantdumbrenter: That would be the same Zhukov that suffered 300,000 casualties taking Berlin in 1945? Patton’s maneuvering of his 3rd Army to relieve Bastogne during the Ardennes Offensive ranks among the most brilliant armored thrusts of WWII.
He was widely considered the best Allied general (not just American) by the German General Staff, and this included generals of the caliber of Erich von Manstein.
Zhukov’s units had been bled white during the final push from the Oder, and I have no doubt that Patton would have waxed his ass.
His “failures” had nothing to do with his generalship, but his abrasive personality and unwillingness to put up with political BS. The same BS that allowed Montgomery to retain his position even after his failures during Normandy (Caen) and Holland (Operation Market-Garden).
August 15, 2008 at 12:40 PM in reply to: Off Topic: Curious about how others feel about the Georgian/Russian war #257745Allan from Fallbrook
Participantdumbrenter: That would be the same Zhukov that suffered 300,000 casualties taking Berlin in 1945? Patton’s maneuvering of his 3rd Army to relieve Bastogne during the Ardennes Offensive ranks among the most brilliant armored thrusts of WWII.
He was widely considered the best Allied general (not just American) by the German General Staff, and this included generals of the caliber of Erich von Manstein.
Zhukov’s units had been bled white during the final push from the Oder, and I have no doubt that Patton would have waxed his ass.
His “failures” had nothing to do with his generalship, but his abrasive personality and unwillingness to put up with political BS. The same BS that allowed Montgomery to retain his position even after his failures during Normandy (Caen) and Holland (Operation Market-Garden).
August 15, 2008 at 10:45 AM in reply to: Off Topic: Curious about how others feel about the Georgian/Russian war #257376Allan from Fallbrook
Participantafx: That’s frickin’ hilarious, coming from the Russians. You look at the Soviets, especially starting with the 1956 invasion of Hungary and culminating with Afghanistan 1979, and their proxy support of all those “Wars of National Liberation”, and they are passing judgment on us? Uh, yeah, okay.
And don’t have any illusions about the “new” Russia. It’s the “old” Russia all over again.
Putin will use whatever pretext is necessary to re-establish Russian dominance in the region, and the US and NATO are nothing other than convenient foils for his ambitions. Russia is using a combination of soft power (through controlling energy resources and transmission of same to Europe) and hard power (in the form of power projection) to bring greater glory to Mother Russia.
Putin is former KGB, and a member of Pamyat, an ultranationalist movement solely dedicated to “Russian national revival”. If any of this rings any bells regarding another ultranationalist bent on regional domination in Europe, it should.
August 15, 2008 at 10:45 AM in reply to: Off Topic: Curious about how others feel about the Georgian/Russian war #257558Allan from Fallbrook
Participantafx: That’s frickin’ hilarious, coming from the Russians. You look at the Soviets, especially starting with the 1956 invasion of Hungary and culminating with Afghanistan 1979, and their proxy support of all those “Wars of National Liberation”, and they are passing judgment on us? Uh, yeah, okay.
And don’t have any illusions about the “new” Russia. It’s the “old” Russia all over again.
Putin will use whatever pretext is necessary to re-establish Russian dominance in the region, and the US and NATO are nothing other than convenient foils for his ambitions. Russia is using a combination of soft power (through controlling energy resources and transmission of same to Europe) and hard power (in the form of power projection) to bring greater glory to Mother Russia.
Putin is former KGB, and a member of Pamyat, an ultranationalist movement solely dedicated to “Russian national revival”. If any of this rings any bells regarding another ultranationalist bent on regional domination in Europe, it should.
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