[aldante]

But to get back to the original point, I don’t have any great problem with the fractional reserve system in general. But I have a big problem with the manner in which it has been administered – problems exacerbated by the likes of Greenspan, Bernanke, Summers, et al. But let’s not confuse the two issues. And, more on topic, none of this has anything to do with the legitimacy of Edward Griffin. In this debate, both Greenspan and Griffin can be quacks. It’s not a mutually exclusive condition.[/quote]

I am glad that you have reached this conclusion. Becasue
My Point is this…….Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. The entire money printing system is thus out of joint and needs to be changed.
By the way most of the Economic papers I have read use Scientific evidence. And while “discovery of priciples” those priciples are only valid if they can predict outcomes.

[aldante]

But to get back to the original point, I don’t have any great problem with the fractional reserve system in general. But I have a big problem with the manner in which it has been administered – problems exacerbated by the likes of Greenspan, Bernanke, Summers, et al. But let’s not confuse the two issues. And, more on topic, none of this has anything to do with the legitimacy of Edward Griffin. In this debate, both Greenspan and Griffin can be quacks. It’s not a mutually exclusive condition.[/quote]

I am glad that you have reached this conclusion. Becasue
My Point is this…….Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. The entire money printing system is thus out of joint and needs to be changed.
By the way most of the Economic papers I have read use Scientific evidence. And while “discovery of priciples” those priciples are only valid if they can predict outcomes.

[aldante]

But to get back to the original point, I don’t have any great problem with the fractional reserve system in general. But I have a big problem with the manner in which it has been administered – problems exacerbated by the likes of Greenspan, Bernanke, Summers, et al. But let’s not confuse the two issues. And, more on topic, none of this has anything to do with the legitimacy of Edward Griffin. In this debate, both Greenspan and Griffin can be quacks. It’s not a mutually exclusive condition.[/quote]

I am glad that you have reached this conclusion. Becasue
My Point is this…….Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. The entire money printing system is thus out of joint and needs to be changed.
By the way most of the Economic papers I have read use Scientific evidence. And while “discovery of priciples” those priciples are only valid if they can predict outcomes.

[aldante]

Davelj – you get my vote for winning the war of words. But……
I simply can not resist. Sorry. Why can these wise men who are so educated not have predicted what would happen? I am just a layman but is it not true that successfull prediction is ultimate goal of science? More to my point. No defense of Griffin but please explain Allan or Davij:

The President of Harvard Larry Summers (he has some degrees right?) shoots down Broksey Born as to her pointing out the need to regulate derivitives in the late 90’s. (I should not have to explain what happened next)
Summers also was instrumental in the demise of Glass-Steagall which paved the way for the Citi/Travelers merger.

Alan Greenspan (“smartest economist in country?”) stands right along side of Larry Summers and says the same. He also writes paper after paper telling us plebes that real estate always goes up. That the”wealth effect” will change mankind forever.

Ben Bernanke – in May 2008 tells the American Plebes not to worry about Freddie and Fannie. Also tells us that we are not headed for a recession just a minor slow down. Both Greenspan and Bernanke keep interest rates so low that this causes hundreds of billions (dare I say trillions?) of malinvestment that keeps average Americans from being able to participate in the capital markets giving all advantage to the big banks. (Most of us cannot borrow for the Fed window for free and charge 18% interest on credit cards). Furthermore this “science” of economics is far to hard for the average person to understand and just attempting to understand in the form of an audit leaves too much for misinterpretation – just too dangerous!!!!!

Then look at the “second tier” who did predict with accuracy…Ron Paul, Peter Schiff, Meredith Whitney, Noriel Roubini, Marc Faber, Gerald Celente? Lots of the so-called Fed supporters would say that the above list has been proven wrong after March 09 but unemployment continues to go up. Funny but erasing mark-to-market just did not seem to make that go away.
Nope I think that the Fed is either almost always wrong for the last 15 years (remember the Long Term Capital Management bail-out) or does have some conflict of interest. I think that a true Audit would tell us which one. Or is someone willing to tell my how the Fed has been right in its past predictions?

Sorry guys but I think the reason for support Griffin is receiving is becasue the “other”guys are inept. And I must say your defense of the fractional reserve banking system seems to ignore these above points. How about this one for you?

How many innocent babies and wifes would be killed by errant “smart” missles and bombs in far away lands with out the Fractional Reserve banking system? How about American sons and daughters – and their loved ones? Yes I am drawing a direct link to our supposed wealth and our ability to build bombs with our “Federal” Reserve system. We could not afford 10 YEARS in Afghanistan without the Federal Reserve. What if your taxes had to go up to pay for that war? I think we would see massive rebellion in this country if they did.

It is possible that this was never a conspiracy from the beginning but right now it looks and feels like a bunch of frat boys are running the show. These guys have known each other (or of each other) and know which rules to take advantage of and which to hide behind. Long term thye seem much less concerned about their duties as public servants and more concerned about their egos/wealth. I don’t trust them at all. I have a reaction anytime some one defends them also. Sorry for the rant but it just came out.

[aldante]

Davelj – you get my vote for winning the war of words. But……
I simply can not resist. Sorry. Why can these wise men who are so educated not have predicted what would happen? I am just a layman but is it not true that successfull prediction is ultimate goal of science? More to my point. No defense of Griffin but please explain Allan or Davij:

The President of Harvard Larry Summers (he has some degrees right?) shoots down Broksey Born as to her pointing out the need to regulate derivitives in the late 90’s. (I should not have to explain what happened next)
Summers also was instrumental in the demise of Glass-Steagall which paved the way for the Citi/Travelers merger.

Alan Greenspan (“smartest economist in country?”) stands right along side of Larry Summers and says the same. He also writes paper after paper telling us plebes that real estate always goes up. That the”wealth effect” will change mankind forever.

Ben Bernanke – in May 2008 tells the American Plebes not to worry about Freddie and Fannie. Also tells us that we are not headed for a recession just a minor slow down. Both Greenspan and Bernanke keep interest rates so low that this causes hundreds of billions (dare I say trillions?) of malinvestment that keeps average Americans from being able to participate in the capital markets giving all advantage to the big banks. (Most of us cannot borrow for the Fed window for free and charge 18% interest on credit cards). Furthermore this “science” of economics is far to hard for the average person to understand and just attempting to understand in the form of an audit leaves too much for misinterpretation – just too dangerous!!!!!

Then look at the “second tier” who did predict with accuracy…Ron Paul, Peter Schiff, Meredith Whitney, Noriel Roubini, Marc Faber, Gerald Celente? Lots of the so-called Fed supporters would say that the above list has been proven wrong after March 09 but unemployment continues to go up. Funny but erasing mark-to-market just did not seem to make that go away.
Nope I think that the Fed is either almost always wrong for the last 15 years (remember the Long Term Capital Management bail-out) or does have some conflict of interest. I think that a true Audit would tell us which one. Or is someone willing to tell my how the Fed has been right in its past predictions?

Sorry guys but I think the reason for support Griffin is receiving is becasue the “other”guys are inept. And I must say your defense of the fractional reserve banking system seems to ignore these above points. How about this one for you?

How many innocent babies and wifes would be killed by errant “smart” missles and bombs in far away lands with out the Fractional Reserve banking system? How about American sons and daughters – and their loved ones? Yes I am drawing a direct link to our supposed wealth and our ability to build bombs with our “Federal” Reserve system. We could not afford 10 YEARS in Afghanistan without the Federal Reserve. What if your taxes had to go up to pay for that war? I think we would see massive rebellion in this country if they did.

It is possible that this was never a conspiracy from the beginning but right now it looks and feels like a bunch of frat boys are running the show. These guys have known each other (or of each other) and know which rules to take advantage of and which to hide behind. Long term thye seem much less concerned about their duties as public servants and more concerned about their egos/wealth. I don’t trust them at all. I have a reaction anytime some one defends them also. Sorry for the rant but it just came out.

[aldante]

Davelj – you get my vote for winning the war of words. But……
I simply can not resist. Sorry. Why can these wise men who are so educated not have predicted what would happen? I am just a layman but is it not true that successfull prediction is ultimate goal of science? More to my point. No defense of Griffin but please explain Allan or Davij:

The President of Harvard Larry Summers (he has some degrees right?) shoots down Broksey Born as to her pointing out the need to regulate derivitives in the late 90’s. (I should not have to explain what happened next)
Summers also was instrumental in the demise of Glass-Steagall which paved the way for the Citi/Travelers merger.

Alan Greenspan (“smartest economist in country?”) stands right along side of Larry Summers and says the same. He also writes paper after paper telling us plebes that real estate always goes up. That the”wealth effect” will change mankind forever.

Ben Bernanke – in May 2008 tells the American Plebes not to worry about Freddie and Fannie. Also tells us that we are not headed for a recession just a minor slow down. Both Greenspan and Bernanke keep interest rates so low that this causes hundreds of billions (dare I say trillions?) of malinvestment that keeps average Americans from being able to participate in the capital markets giving all advantage to the big banks. (Most of us cannot borrow for the Fed window for free and charge 18% interest on credit cards). Furthermore this “science” of economics is far to hard for the average person to understand and just attempting to understand in the form of an audit leaves too much for misinterpretation – just too dangerous!!!!!

Then look at the “second tier” who did predict with accuracy…Ron Paul, Peter Schiff, Meredith Whitney, Noriel Roubini, Marc Faber, Gerald Celente? Lots of the so-called Fed supporters would say that the above list has been proven wrong after March 09 but unemployment continues to go up. Funny but erasing mark-to-market just did not seem to make that go away.
Nope I think that the Fed is either almost always wrong for the last 15 years (remember the Long Term Capital Management bail-out) or does have some conflict of interest. I think that a true Audit would tell us which one. Or is someone willing to tell my how the Fed has been right in its past predictions?

Sorry guys but I think the reason for support Griffin is receiving is becasue the “other”guys are inept. And I must say your defense of the fractional reserve banking system seems to ignore these above points. How about this one for you?

How many innocent babies and wifes would be killed by errant “smart” missles and bombs in far away lands with out the Fractional Reserve banking system? How about American sons and daughters – and their loved ones? Yes I am drawing a direct link to our supposed wealth and our ability to build bombs with our “Federal” Reserve system. We could not afford 10 YEARS in Afghanistan without the Federal Reserve. What if your taxes had to go up to pay for that war? I think we would see massive rebellion in this country if they did.

It is possible that this was never a conspiracy from the beginning but right now it looks and feels like a bunch of frat boys are running the show. These guys have known each other (or of each other) and know which rules to take advantage of and which to hide behind. Long term thye seem much less concerned about their duties as public servants and more concerned about their egos/wealth. I don’t trust them at all. I have a reaction anytime some one defends them also. Sorry for the rant but it just came out.

[aldante]

Davelj – you get my vote for winning the war of words. But……
I simply can not resist. Sorry. Why can these wise men who are so educated not have predicted what would happen? I am just a layman but is it not true that successfull prediction is ultimate goal of science? More to my point. No defense of Griffin but please explain Allan or Davij:

The President of Harvard Larry Summers (he has some degrees right?) shoots down Broksey Born as to her pointing out the need to regulate derivitives in the late 90’s. (I should not have to explain what happened next)
Summers also was instrumental in the demise of Glass-Steagall which paved the way for the Citi/Travelers merger.

Alan Greenspan (“smartest economist in country?”) stands right along side of Larry Summers and says the same. He also writes paper after paper telling us plebes that real estate always goes up. That the”wealth effect” will change mankind forever.

Ben Bernanke – in May 2008 tells the American Plebes not to worry about Freddie and Fannie. Also tells us that we are not headed for a recession just a minor slow down. Both Greenspan and Bernanke keep interest rates so low that this causes hundreds of billions (dare I say trillions?) of malinvestment that keeps average Americans from being able to participate in the capital markets giving all advantage to the big banks. (Most of us cannot borrow for the Fed window for free and charge 18% interest on credit cards). Furthermore this “science” of economics is far to hard for the average person to understand and just attempting to understand in the form of an audit leaves too much for misinterpretation – just too dangerous!!!!!

Then look at the “second tier” who did predict with accuracy…Ron Paul, Peter Schiff, Meredith Whitney, Noriel Roubini, Marc Faber, Gerald Celente? Lots of the so-called Fed supporters would say that the above list has been proven wrong after March 09 but unemployment continues to go up. Funny but erasing mark-to-market just did not seem to make that go away.
Nope I think that the Fed is either almost always wrong for the last 15 years (remember the Long Term Capital Management bail-out) or does have some conflict of interest. I think that a true Audit would tell us which one. Or is someone willing to tell my how the Fed has been right in its past predictions?

Sorry guys but I think the reason for support Griffin is receiving is becasue the “other”guys are inept. And I must say your defense of the fractional reserve banking system seems to ignore these above points. How about this one for you?

How many innocent babies and wifes would be killed by errant “smart” missles and bombs in far away lands with out the Fractional Reserve banking system? How about American sons and daughters – and their loved ones? Yes I am drawing a direct link to our supposed wealth and our ability to build bombs with our “Federal” Reserve system. We could not afford 10 YEARS in Afghanistan without the Federal Reserve. What if your taxes had to go up to pay for that war? I think we would see massive rebellion in this country if they did.

It is possible that this was never a conspiracy from the beginning but right now it looks and feels like a bunch of frat boys are running the show. These guys have known each other (or of each other) and know which rules to take advantage of and which to hide behind. Long term thye seem much less concerned about their duties as public servants and more concerned about their egos/wealth. I don’t trust them at all. I have a reaction anytime some one defends them also. Sorry for the rant but it just came out.

[aldante]

Davelj – you get my vote for winning the war of words. But……
I simply can not resist. Sorry. Why can these wise men who are so educated not have predicted what would happen? I am just a layman but is it not true that successfull prediction is ultimate goal of science? More to my point. No defense of Griffin but please explain Allan or Davij:

The President of Harvard Larry Summers (he has some degrees right?) shoots down Broksey Born as to her pointing out the need to regulate derivitives in the late 90’s. (I should not have to explain what happened next)
Summers also was instrumental in the demise of Glass-Steagall which paved the way for the Citi/Travelers merger.

Alan Greenspan (“smartest economist in country?”) stands right along side of Larry Summers and says the same. He also writes paper after paper telling us plebes that real estate always goes up. That the”wealth effect” will change mankind forever.

Ben Bernanke – in May 2008 tells the American Plebes not to worry about Freddie and Fannie. Also tells us that we are not headed for a recession just a minor slow down. Both Greenspan and Bernanke keep interest rates so low that this causes hundreds of billions (dare I say trillions?) of malinvestment that keeps average Americans from being able to participate in the capital markets giving all advantage to the big banks. (Most of us cannot borrow for the Fed window for free and charge 18% interest on credit cards). Furthermore this “science” of economics is far to hard for the average person to understand and just attempting to understand in the form of an audit leaves too much for misinterpretation – just too dangerous!!!!!

Then look at the “second tier” who did predict with accuracy…Ron Paul, Peter Schiff, Meredith Whitney, Noriel Roubini, Marc Faber, Gerald Celente? Lots of the so-called Fed supporters would say that the above list has been proven wrong after March 09 but unemployment continues to go up. Funny but erasing mark-to-market just did not seem to make that go away.
Nope I think that the Fed is either almost always wrong for the last 15 years (remember the Long Term Capital Management bail-out) or does have some conflict of interest. I think that a true Audit would tell us which one. Or is someone willing to tell my how the Fed has been right in its past predictions?

Sorry guys but I think the reason for support Griffin is receiving is becasue the “other”guys are inept. And I must say your defense of the fractional reserve banking system seems to ignore these above points. How about this one for you?

How many innocent babies and wifes would be killed by errant “smart” missles and bombs in far away lands with out the Fractional Reserve banking system? How about American sons and daughters – and their loved ones? Yes I am drawing a direct link to our supposed wealth and our ability to build bombs with our “Federal” Reserve system. We could not afford 10 YEARS in Afghanistan without the Federal Reserve. What if your taxes had to go up to pay for that war? I think we would see massive rebellion in this country if they did.

It is possible that this was never a conspiracy from the beginning but right now it looks and feels like a bunch of frat boys are running the show. These guys have known each other (or of each other) and know which rules to take advantage of and which to hide behind. Long term thye seem much less concerned about their duties as public servants and more concerned about their egos/wealth. I don’t trust them at all. I have a reaction anytime some one defends them also. Sorry for the rant but it just came out.

[aldante]

[quote=XBoxBoy][quote=aldante]
Dr. Paul has run as a third party candidate before and as such probably has a unique experience. …snip… He says that the most pragmatic approach should be to change the parties from within. [/quote]

Aldante,

I have always admired Dr Paul, if nothing else because of the honesty of his convictions. I often differ with him about things but at least he’s honestly trying to find solutions, and not just mouthing a bunch of meaningless platitudes like so many politicians.

But, I’m afraid that I’ve lost most of my belief that someone like myself can make any difference to the Dems or Repubs. Maybe if I was willing to commit lots of time to be actively involved with a party I could influence a few local issues slightly. But on the grander scale, I’m afraid I don’t see it. (Of course on the grand scale voting for third parties isn’t likely to change anything either.)

XBoxBoy[/quote]

Xboy,
Well I have a full time job and have tried to make it to the Republican Central Committee meetings (which are held every month) but have been unable to. Look around though. The Repubican incumbants in many states for congress and the senate have been “taken down” by exactly the forces that I am talking about.
While I want to chase windmills and make a grand differnce the best I can do is discuss these issues with my friends. My facebook page has links to campaignforliberty.com and tomwoods.com….I have been educating myself so when people confront me on my stance it is an opportunity for learning and growth rather then infighting. Bottom Line is that we can make a difference! Not on the scale that I would like. Truth is never wasted and I am simply tired of the lies that have been “aired” as truth for years.

[aldante]

[quote=XBoxBoy][quote=aldante]
Dr. Paul has run as a third party candidate before and as such probably has a unique experience. …snip… He says that the most pragmatic approach should be to change the parties from within. [/quote]

Aldante,

I have always admired Dr Paul, if nothing else because of the honesty of his convictions. I often differ with him about things but at least he’s honestly trying to find solutions, and not just mouthing a bunch of meaningless platitudes like so many politicians.

But, I’m afraid that I’ve lost most of my belief that someone like myself can make any difference to the Dems or Repubs. Maybe if I was willing to commit lots of time to be actively involved with a party I could influence a few local issues slightly. But on the grander scale, I’m afraid I don’t see it. (Of course on the grand scale voting for third parties isn’t likely to change anything either.)

XBoxBoy[/quote]

Xboy,
Well I have a full time job and have tried to make it to the Republican Central Committee meetings (which are held every month) but have been unable to. Look around though. The Repubican incumbants in many states for congress and the senate have been “taken down” by exactly the forces that I am talking about.
While I want to chase windmills and make a grand differnce the best I can do is discuss these issues with my friends. My facebook page has links to campaignforliberty.com and tomwoods.com….I have been educating myself so when people confront me on my stance it is an opportunity for learning and growth rather then infighting. Bottom Line is that we can make a difference! Not on the scale that I would like. Truth is never wasted and I am simply tired of the lies that have been “aired” as truth for years.

[aldante]

[quote=XBoxBoy][quote=aldante]
Dr. Paul has run as a third party candidate before and as such probably has a unique experience. …snip… He says that the most pragmatic approach should be to change the parties from within. [/quote]

Aldante,

I have always admired Dr Paul, if nothing else because of the honesty of his convictions. I often differ with him about things but at least he’s honestly trying to find solutions, and not just mouthing a bunch of meaningless platitudes like so many politicians.

But, I’m afraid that I’ve lost most of my belief that someone like myself can make any difference to the Dems or Repubs. Maybe if I was willing to commit lots of time to be actively involved with a party I could influence a few local issues slightly. But on the grander scale, I’m afraid I don’t see it. (Of course on the grand scale voting for third parties isn’t likely to change anything either.)

XBoxBoy[/quote]

Xboy,
Well I have a full time job and have tried to make it to the Republican Central Committee meetings (which are held every month) but have been unable to. Look around though. The Repubican incumbants in many states for congress and the senate have been “taken down” by exactly the forces that I am talking about.
While I want to chase windmills and make a grand differnce the best I can do is discuss these issues with my friends. My facebook page has links to campaignforliberty.com and tomwoods.com….I have been educating myself so when people confront me on my stance it is an opportunity for learning and growth rather then infighting. Bottom Line is that we can make a difference! Not on the scale that I would like. Truth is never wasted and I am simply tired of the lies that have been “aired” as truth for years.

[aldante]

[quote=XBoxBoy][quote=aldante]
Dr. Paul has run as a third party candidate before and as such probably has a unique experience. …snip… He says that the most pragmatic approach should be to change the parties from within. [/quote]

Aldante,

I have always admired Dr Paul, if nothing else because of the honesty of his convictions. I often differ with him about things but at least he’s honestly trying to find solutions, and not just mouthing a bunch of meaningless platitudes like so many politicians.

But, I’m afraid that I’ve lost most of my belief that someone like myself can make any difference to the Dems or Repubs. Maybe if I was willing to commit lots of time to be actively involved with a party I could influence a few local issues slightly. But on the grander scale, I’m afraid I don’t see it. (Of course on the grand scale voting for third parties isn’t likely to change anything either.)

XBoxBoy[/quote]

Xboy,
Well I have a full time job and have tried to make it to the Republican Central Committee meetings (which are held every month) but have been unable to. Look around though. The Repubican incumbants in many states for congress and the senate have been “taken down” by exactly the forces that I am talking about.
While I want to chase windmills and make a grand differnce the best I can do is discuss these issues with my friends. My facebook page has links to campaignforliberty.com and tomwoods.com….I have been educating myself so when people confront me on my stance it is an opportunity for learning and growth rather then infighting. Bottom Line is that we can make a difference! Not on the scale that I would like. Truth is never wasted and I am simply tired of the lies that have been “aired” as truth for years.

[aldante]

[quote=XBoxBoy][quote=aldante]
Dr. Paul has run as a third party candidate before and as such probably has a unique experience. …snip… He says that the most pragmatic approach should be to change the parties from within. [/quote]

Aldante,

I have always admired Dr Paul, if nothing else because of the honesty of his convictions. I often differ with him about things but at least he’s honestly trying to find solutions, and not just mouthing a bunch of meaningless platitudes like so many politicians.

But, I’m afraid that I’ve lost most of my belief that someone like myself can make any difference to the Dems or Repubs. Maybe if I was willing to commit lots of time to be actively involved with a party I could influence a few local issues slightly. But on the grander scale, I’m afraid I don’t see it. (Of course on the grand scale voting for third parties isn’t likely to change anything either.)

XBoxBoy[/quote]

Xboy,
Well I have a full time job and have tried to make it to the Republican Central Committee meetings (which are held every month) but have been unable to. Look around though. The Repubican incumbants in many states for congress and the senate have been “taken down” by exactly the forces that I am talking about.
While I want to chase windmills and make a grand differnce the best I can do is discuss these issues with my friends. My facebook page has links to campaignforliberty.com and tomwoods.com….I have been educating myself so when people confront me on my stance it is an opportunity for learning and growth rather then infighting. Bottom Line is that we can make a difference! Not on the scale that I would like. Truth is never wasted and I am simply tired of the lies that have been “aired” as truth for years.

[aldante]

Xboy,
I struggled with this for a long time. Over a two years. But then I went to Las Vegas last year to a Campaign for Liberty event and listened closely to Ron Paul.
Dr. Paul has run as a third party candidate before and as such probably has a unique experience. If you know or follow the man you know that he is a deep thinker. He will be the first to say that there is no discernable difference between the two parties in general – with one off exceptions. He guidance was twofold.
Most Americans want a third party becasue they want immediate results. Getting a third party on enough ballots is extrodianrily difficult. And when people see that difficulty the inertia of that party will be lost quickly (remember Ross Perot?).
He says that the most pragmatic approach should be to change the parties from within. What that means is no immediate results. It means people – individuals – getting involved in their district county politics and not just sending checks. Volunteering for the local party leadership positions and working. Being an indian and not a cheif. Knocking on doors and making your friends aware of the issues. That – if I am so bold as to summrize Dr. Paul’s views; is the only way to battle the lobbies that have our current politicians in their back pocket.

That how deep in the hole this country is.

[aldante]

Xboy,
I struggled with this for a long time. Over a two years. But then I went to Las Vegas last year to a Campaign for Liberty event and listened closely to Ron Paul.
Dr. Paul has run as a third party candidate before and as such probably has a unique experience. If you know or follow the man you know that he is a deep thinker. He will be the first to say that there is no discernable difference between the two parties in general – with one off exceptions. He guidance was twofold.
Most Americans want a third party becasue they want immediate results. Getting a third party on enough ballots is extrodianrily difficult. And when people see that difficulty the inertia of that party will be lost quickly (remember Ross Perot?).
He says that the most pragmatic approach should be to change the parties from within. What that means is no immediate results. It means people – individuals – getting involved in their district county politics and not just sending checks. Volunteering for the local party leadership positions and working. Being an indian and not a cheif. Knocking on doors and making your friends aware of the issues. That – if I am so bold as to summrize Dr. Paul’s views; is the only way to battle the lobbies that have our current politicians in their back pocket.

That how deep in the hole this country is.

[Author]

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