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[quote=flu]Possibly by accident if I’m at the San Diego Zoo and with my daughter and see a black monkey. “Hey kiddo, there’s that black monkey”.[/quote]

Hah, well I would argue that in that context, it’s perfectly ok to describe a black monkey, even if there happen to be African Americans around. Mostly because… well, you’re looking at a black monkey.

Similarly, it would be perfectly fine for an African American to call a box of white crackers a bunch of “white crackers.”

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[quote=flu]Possibly by accident if I’m at the San Diego Zoo and with my daughter and see a black monkey. “Hey kiddo, there’s that black monkey”.[/quote]

Hah, well I would argue that in that context, it’s perfectly ok to describe a black monkey, even if there happen to be African Americans around. Mostly because… well, you’re looking at a black monkey.

Similarly, it would be perfectly fine for an African American to call a box of white crackers a bunch of “white crackers.”

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[quote=flu]Possibly by accident if I’m at the San Diego Zoo and with my daughter and see a black monkey. “Hey kiddo, there’s that black monkey”.[/quote]

Hah, well I would argue that in that context, it’s perfectly ok to describe a black monkey, even if there happen to be African Americans around. Mostly because… well, you’re looking at a black monkey.

Similarly, it would be perfectly fine for an African American to call a box of white crackers a bunch of “white crackers.”

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[quote=flu]I’m not trying to pick on you. I’m really trying to understand this complex issue of race relations.[/quote]

I’m enjoying the picking. I think that it is an important discussion and I’m happy that we can have it in a civilized manner.

[quote=flu]But back to your first point. Why should your friends have to cirmcuvent the word to begin with?[/quote]

That is a good question. We certainly don’t have to. It’s probably because of the fact that we are a sarcastic and ironic bunch, and calling each other ‘ninjas’ is much cooler than calling each other ‘dudes’ or ‘bros.’

Taking race out of the equation (building on davej’s culturalist argument): I used to have a group of gay friends who would always say “that’s sooooooo gay” about things they disliked or disagreed with. I too could say it as a heterosexual and they got a kick out of it.

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[quote=flu]I’m not trying to pick on you. I’m really trying to understand this complex issue of race relations.[/quote]

I’m enjoying the picking. I think that it is an important discussion and I’m happy that we can have it in a civilized manner.

[quote=flu]But back to your first point. Why should your friends have to cirmcuvent the word to begin with?[/quote]

That is a good question. We certainly don’t have to. It’s probably because of the fact that we are a sarcastic and ironic bunch, and calling each other ‘ninjas’ is much cooler than calling each other ‘dudes’ or ‘bros.’

Taking race out of the equation (building on davej’s culturalist argument): I used to have a group of gay friends who would always say “that’s sooooooo gay” about things they disliked or disagreed with. I too could say it as a heterosexual and they got a kick out of it.

[afx114]

[quote=flu]I’m not trying to pick on you. I’m really trying to understand this complex issue of race relations.[/quote]

I’m enjoying the picking. I think that it is an important discussion and I’m happy that we can have it in a civilized manner.

[quote=flu]But back to your first point. Why should your friends have to cirmcuvent the word to begin with?[/quote]

That is a good question. We certainly don’t have to. It’s probably because of the fact that we are a sarcastic and ironic bunch, and calling each other ‘ninjas’ is much cooler than calling each other ‘dudes’ or ‘bros.’

Taking race out of the equation (building on davej’s culturalist argument): I used to have a group of gay friends who would always say “that’s sooooooo gay” about things they disliked or disagreed with. I too could say it as a heterosexual and they got a kick out of it.

[afx114]

[quote=flu]I’m not trying to pick on you. I’m really trying to understand this complex issue of race relations.[/quote]

I’m enjoying the picking. I think that it is an important discussion and I’m happy that we can have it in a civilized manner.

[quote=flu]But back to your first point. Why should your friends have to cirmcuvent the word to begin with?[/quote]

That is a good question. We certainly don’t have to. It’s probably because of the fact that we are a sarcastic and ironic bunch, and calling each other ‘ninjas’ is much cooler than calling each other ‘dudes’ or ‘bros.’

Taking race out of the equation (building on davej’s culturalist argument): I used to have a group of gay friends who would always say “that’s sooooooo gay” about things they disliked or disagreed with. I too could say it as a heterosexual and they got a kick out of it.

[afx114]

[quote=flu]I’m not trying to pick on you. I’m really trying to understand this complex issue of race relations.[/quote]

I’m enjoying the picking. I think that it is an important discussion and I’m happy that we can have it in a civilized manner.

[quote=flu]But back to your first point. Why should your friends have to cirmcuvent the word to begin with?[/quote]

That is a good question. We certainly don’t have to. It’s probably because of the fact that we are a sarcastic and ironic bunch, and calling each other ‘ninjas’ is much cooler than calling each other ‘dudes’ or ‘bros.’

Taking race out of the equation (building on davej’s culturalist argument): I used to have a group of gay friends who would always say “that’s sooooooo gay” about things they disliked or disagreed with. I too could say it as a heterosexual and they got a kick out of it.

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My favorite line was by Schuster:

If you are planning simultaneous tea bagging all around the country, you’re going to need a Dick Armey.

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My favorite line was by Schuster:

If you are planning simultaneous tea bagging all around the country, you’re going to need a Dick Armey.

[afx114]

My favorite line was by Schuster:

If you are planning simultaneous tea bagging all around the country, you’re going to need a Dick Armey.

[afx114]

My favorite line was by Schuster:

If you are planning simultaneous tea bagging all around the country, you’re going to need a Dick Armey.

[afx114]

My favorite line was by Schuster:

If you are planning simultaneous tea bagging all around the country, you’re going to need a Dick Armey.

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[quote=flu]For example, how is a white person suppose to know calling someone “oriental” is racist? If it happens, is that considered “threatening”?[/quote]

Through education. Of course no one can ever know every single cultural nuance and avoid offensive words completely. But at least make an effort to lower the percentage. If a white person calls someone ‘oriental’ and doesn’t know that it is racist, they should be educated of that fact. Once they are, if they continue to use the word in a derogatory manner, then it is no doubt considered “threatening.” Hell, I didn’t even know that it is racist — thanks for educating me! Not that I ever use ‘oriental’ to describe people anyway. But at least I know for sure not to use it if the desire had ever crept up.

In this case though, the onus also falls on the offended to educate. I’ll be the first to admit that both sides are at fault here. If the offended doesn’t make an effort to make it known that they are offended, how will the offender know otherwise?

I suppose you can argue “but I didn’t know that calling blacks monkeys was offensive.” Well now you do. Are you still going to use it?

[afx114]

[quote=flu]For example, how is a white person suppose to know calling someone “oriental” is racist? If it happens, is that considered “threatening”?[/quote]

Through education. Of course no one can ever know every single cultural nuance and avoid offensive words completely. But at least make an effort to lower the percentage. If a white person calls someone ‘oriental’ and doesn’t know that it is racist, they should be educated of that fact. Once they are, if they continue to use the word in a derogatory manner, then it is no doubt considered “threatening.” Hell, I didn’t even know that it is racist — thanks for educating me! Not that I ever use ‘oriental’ to describe people anyway. But at least I know for sure not to use it if the desire had ever crept up.

In this case though, the onus also falls on the offended to educate. I’ll be the first to admit that both sides are at fault here. If the offended doesn’t make an effort to make it known that they are offended, how will the offender know otherwise?

I suppose you can argue “but I didn’t know that calling blacks monkeys was offensive.” Well now you do. Are you still going to use it?

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