Younger workers everywhere

[millennial]

[quote=The-Shoveler]The term Work smarter was invented in the mid 80’s[/quote]

Good for you. You invented it, our generation lived it as my parents were pounding it in our brains. Tell me which generation is this philosophy more ingrained? Just as you preached efficiency (which is a millennial trait btw) I keep preaching to my children to be more flexible.

[The-Shoveler]

[quote=FlyerInHi][quote=The-Shoveler]The term Work smarter was invented in the mid 80’s[/quote]

By tech workers who wanted to work in shorts and tshirts.

The boomer establishment (eg. IBM) was very much old school.[/quote]

The Shorts and tshirts thing became popular in the early 90’s in the tech world.

[The-Shoveler]

Work however you want, but my guess is the person who is a little hungrier than you will eat your lunch.

[FlyerInHi]

[quote=The-Shoveler]

The Shorts and tshirts thing became popular in the early 90’s in the tech world.[/quote]

Ok, I stand corrected… but my point was that doing away with structure was a young person’s thing…

Now, working smart is mainstream. Bosses don’t have the authority they once did.

[FlyerInHi]

[quote=The-Shoveler]Work however you want, but my guess is the person who is a little hungrier than you will eat your lunch.[/quote]

Yes, always.. and even more so now. In the past, there was more structure to protect people with seniority.

[millennial]

[quote=flyer]Yes, BG, I have posted the points you made above, and, yes, those are the facts, but the purpose of my recent post was to illustrate the point that, as Millennials like to point out regarding their options in life, many of us, as Boomers, were also in a position to choose how we lived our lives–in direct opposition to common myths floating around about our generation.
[/quote]

Flyer, seems like you have had a great life so far and one that I am personally trying to achieve. Regarding your statement above regarding “options in life” I don’t think us Millennials feel that we have more options per se, but instead more open to the idea of flexibility in our current jobs thanks to technology and the way we think. If using the 80’s as an example, someone in finance such as myself would be required to work in the office during a set time and others would view working remotely or leaving early and logging in later negatively. I think my generation is significantly more understanding and open to this idea as our ideas of work has shifted. A lot of old timers don’t understand this new work environment (my father included), and for some reason equates this to leaving work early to less productivity. Our generation would instead look at this much more positively as we really dislike micromanaging, and value a positive work/life balance.

[millennial]

[quote=FlyerInHi][quote=The-Shoveler]

Bosses don’t have the authority they once did.[/quote]

Nor does it seem like they care as much. A lot of companies right now have a high percentage of upper management Boomer generation people who are stuck there because their company stock/401k went to crap. What has happened is that we have all these older people who are less motivated and pretty much only there to collect a paycheck until they have enough to retire. Meanwhile, Millenials are limited in the amount of upward mobility. To be honest, I’m tired of hearing boomers bitch about how much longer they have to work cause their stocks took a dump, or how the young generation are all lazy and have no ambition and all stuck in retail jobs. The reason why we are here is because you guys won’t retire and leave! Those people you see working retail, are there because there are no jobs elsewhere…it’s not cause they love serving coffee and folding shirts. Keep complaining about not being able to leave your high paying job, meanwhile many Millenials can’t even start their career.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=yamashi1][quote=Clifford][quote=moneymaker]I’ve noticed lately that Home Depot, Kohl’s, among others have a lot of young workers. Is it just me getting old or have others noticed the work force getting younger?[/quote]

That is because most millenials are having a hard time finding jobs with their degrees. So, they ended up taking retail jobs.[/quote]

Yes I agree, there are a glut of educated millenials who are unable to find jobs, or are stuck in middle manager positions with limited opportunities to move up. Unfortunately, with the last downturn, many boomers are unable to retire on their savings and are now working many more years than expected. This has led to the older millenials being stuck in entry to middle management jobs and the newer graduates not even being able to get anything other than retail/insurance/realtor jobs. The few that have been able to find something have done so through networking, being smarter than 95% of the rest of the population, or by starting their own businesses. It is a tough time right now to be entering the workplace.[/quote]yamashi, we boomers would have considered a “mid-mgmt” job a career and would have been happy to have it and retire as a “mid-mgr.” I don’t see why millenials think they are “stuck.” Those who obtained the “upper mgmt” rank were “hand picked” by someone they knew in another life. That’s been my experience. I guess many millenials must think they “deserve” the highest positions while they are still in their 30’s, lol. Upper mgmt positions are mostly occupied by individuals who are 50+ years old (Gen X and boomers). Millenials have way too lofty of “expectations” if they think they “deserve” these positions just a few years (or a decade) out of the gate, IMO. They have not yet had sufficient time in the workplace to “pay their dues.”

Yes, my kids are among those “few” that you mention above. They have been master networkers and “self-promotion specialists” since they were about 10 years old. It doesn’t hurt that they also know how to properly groom themselves and can walk it and talk it. It seems to have been a bit of a stretch for many millenials to be able to acquire the above traits but they are essential to success in business.

[The-Shoveler]

We have been hiring quite a few Millennials (who seem happy to work long hours BTW and are grateful for the opportunity).

Anyway I still say a repeat of 1985-1995

http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2015/12/01/Why-Millennials-Are-Finally-Getting-Real-Jobs

[bearishgurl]

[quote=yamashi1][quote=flyer]Yes, BG, I have posted the points you made above, and, yes, those are the facts, but the purpose of my recent post was to illustrate the point that, as Millennials like to point out regarding their options in life, many of us, as Boomers, were also in a position to choose how we lived our lives–in direct opposition to common myths floating around about our generation.
[/quote]

Flyer, seems like you have had a great life so far and one that I am personally trying to achieve. Regarding your statement above regarding “options in life” I don’t think us Millennials feel that we have more options per se, but instead more open to the idea of flexibility in our current jobs thanks to technology and the way we think. If using the 80’s as an example, someone in finance such as myself would be required to work in the office during a set time and others would view working remotely or leaving early and logging in later negatively. I think my generation is significantly more understanding and open to this idea as our ideas of work has shifted. A lot of old timers don’t understand this new work environment (my father included), and for some reason equates this to leaving work early to less productivity. Our generation would instead look at this much more positively as we really dislike micromanaging, and value a positive work/life balance.[/quote]We disliked to be “micromanaged” as well. As a matter of fact, we hated it with a passion. But if we didn’t follow the “rules” regarding tardiness (on arrival and back from lunch hour) and excessive absences, we would have so much leave bled off our “books” piecemeal that we would never get to take our vacations cuz we would be “out of time.” Many parents couldn’t help it and were never able to take vacations (just occasional 3-4 day weekends). A very large portion of employees never kept more than 8 hours sick leave and 8 hours vacation on the books at any given time, regardless of accrual rate. They weren’t able to, due to kid and elderly parent obligations. This was especially true of single parents.

If millenials are now coming and going as they please in most office settings and still taking their full vacations and collecting their full pay, then they have absolutely NOTHING to complain about.

An employee has no control as to who is currently occupying the positions above them. Even if that position vacates, they have no control in whether they are chosen for it … or not. There could easily be 12 internal applications for said position. You can always look outside of your firm or organization for promotional opportunities elsewhere and if successfully hired, vote with your feet.

No worker is ever “guaranteed” continuous internal promotions. This has always been the case.

[spdrun]

.

[skerzz]

[quote=bearishgurl][quote=yamashi1][quote=flyer]Yes, BG, I have posted the points you made above, and, yes, those are the facts, but the purpose of my recent post was to illustrate the point that, as Millennials like to point out regarding their options in life, many of us, as Boomers, were also in a position to choose how we lived our lives–in direct opposition to common myths floating around about our generation.
[/quote]

Flyer, seems like you have had a great life so far and one that I am personally trying to achieve. Regarding your statement above regarding “options in life” I don’t think us Millennials feel that we have more options per se, but instead more open to the idea of flexibility in our current jobs thanks to technology and the way we think. If using the 80’s as an example, someone in finance such as myself would be required to work in the office during a set time and others would view working remotely or leaving early and logging in later negatively. I think my generation is significantly more understanding and open to this idea as our ideas of work has shifted. A lot of old timers don’t understand this new work environment (my father included), and for some reason equates this to leaving work early to less productivity. Our generation would instead look at this much more positively as we really dislike micromanaging, and value a positive work/life balance.[/quote]We disliked to be “micromanaged” as well. As a matter of fact, we hated it with a passion. But if we didn’t follow the “rules” regarding tardiness (on arrival and back from lunch hour) and excessive absences, we would have so much leave bled off our “books” piecemeal that we would never get to take our vacations cuz we would be “out of time.” Many parents couldn’t help it and were never able to take vacations (just occasional 3-4 day weekends). A very large portion of employees never kept more than 8 hours sick leave and 8 hours vacation on the books at any given time, regardless of accrual rate. They weren’t able to, due to kid and elderly parent obligations. This was especially true of single parents.

If millenials are now coming and going as they please in most office settings and still taking their full vacations and collecting their full pay, then they have absolutely NOTHING to complain about.

An employee has no control as to who is currently occupying the positions above them. Even if that position vacates, they have no control in whether they are chosen for it … or not. There could easily be 12 internal applications for said position. You can always look outside of your firm or organization for promotional opportunities elsewhere and if successfully hired, vote with your feet.

No worker is ever “guaranteed” continuous internal promotions. This has always been the case.[/quote]

And you used to walk to work barefoot in the snow up hills both ways…

Many employers still have strict working hours policies as you describe above. However, the most competitive and cutting edge companies realize that old school thinking you describe is flawed. These companies are adapting to the generational changes in the workforce and recognize that in order to attract and retain top talent, they must offer the flexibility younger workers highly value.

[The-Shoveler]

[quote=skerzz]

And you used to walk to work barefoot in the snow up hills both ways…

Many employers still have strict working hours policies as you describe above. However, the most competitive and cutting edge companies realize that old school thinking you describe is flawed. These companies are adapting to the generational changes in the workforce and recognize that in order to attract and retain top talent, they must offer the flexibility younger workers highly value.[/quote]

Actually it’s been this way since the late 90’s at least, I have colleagues who live and work on the big Island of Hawaii and another in Hong Kong (where no office exists), Others who do take off early to coach their kids team (they are boomers BTW) and they have been doing this for a very long time, but they are the exception not the rule.

There is also a regular purging about every 6 months to a year.

You buy your ticket and if you’re good enough….

[The-Shoveler]

Average age of retirement has only increased by 4 years since 2002.
Right now it’s the same age as it was in 1965.

Actually it is a year younger than in 1965, in 1965 the average retirement age was 64 years old, right now it is 63 years old.

Anyway flyer If I may, how many years into your career did it take you to get into the Captain seat of a Jumbo?

[bearishgurl]

[quote=yamashi1] . . . The days of the majority of Americans able to get into top tier schools, then graduate and find a middle class job, buy a decent home on one salary, retire at age 65, and collect a pension and social security and ride off into the sunset are gone. . . . [/quote]
yamashi, I agree that it was easier to be accepted into “top tier schools” the ’70’s and ’80’s and will add that many of those schools were more “affordable” in relation to prevailing wages back then because there were far less foreign student applicants to compete with and far less types of financial aid available at that time and the aid that was available maxed out at about $4K per year (not enough to help with room and board). The private sector had not yet entered the student loan racket. (Yes, SL’s ARE a “racket,” folks.)

But the rest of this post is a whole lotta misinformation. It might have been true for the Greatest Generation and WWII Gen but did you ever ask your parents if the above was the case with them? Well, I was there and can tell you that vast majority of boomers DID qualify to buy their first and subsequent home with TWO incomes, NOT ONE! I believe there were FAR MORE dual income families prior to the mid-nineties than there are today, in spite of the increase in population since then. I’m speaking of two parents BOTH working FT and each on the seniority/promotion track.

The REAL reason boomers were more successful in RE investment than the millenials ever will be is that they started their adult lives much younger (whether graduated from college … or not) and thereby invested in RE much younger (early-mid twenties) by buying whatever they could afford, condition and location be dammed. Millenials are way, way too picky in what they will accept for their first home and for the most part, REFUSE to DIY. And they reject outright properties which need two weeks to two months of cleanup/rehab in order to occupy. This group wants everything “perfect” in their first property prior to COE and are willing to go into tremendous debt for it and we boomers, as a group, weren’t willing to do this. We understood how the “system” always worked in coastal CA, wholly accepted that nothing has changed in that regard, and wanted to buy and sell and “move up the property ladder,” little by little. This concept is completely unpalatable to today’s first-time homebuyers. They would rather rent for a decade or more than do that, (unwisely) banking that CA coastal RE values are somehow going to go down in their targeted coveted (“move-up”) neighborhoods :-0

If you don’t believe me, all you have to do is ask your boomer co-workers where they live and how long ago they bought their current residence. Since you stated you work in downtown SD, you will very likely find that most of them live in SD metro and south and east county in established neighborhoods and have owned their latest residence 15-35 years. A good portion of them probably live within 10 miles of dtn SD in communities such as Serra Mesa, College Area, Birdland and Linda Vista. If you ask them, they may tell you they raised their kids in the house they currently reside in and that their houses are 1600 to 2200 sf and an average of 55 years old. And if you ask them what kind of shape their house was in when they bought it and what kind of improvements they have made to the property over the years, you might be shocked.

The vast majority of CA coastal boomers didn’t raise their kids in “mini-mansions” in outer-suburbia (like you say you are)! That’s a millenial (and Gen-X) preference. It seems many millenials feel they must have a 3000 sf (preferably brand new) house for their first home, two late model or brand new vehicles and a “top-mgmt rung” gig all before the age of 35! Really? And if they grew up in Cali, they feel they “deserve” a well-paying gig in a CA coastal county for their first FT job and are unwilling to relocate to get some experience and that every “oldster” in their way at work should just “go away” NOW so they can be considered for that position. They feel they “deserve” all this because they are “educated.” This mindset is what is causing depression in many of them, causing them to resign themselves to living with parents and quit applying for career-track positions while working a PT retail or food service job.

That’s it, in a nutshell. The “expectations” of most young adults today (esp those with college degrees) are through the roof and completely unrealistic. Especially for residents of crowded, CA coastal counties with a HUGE well-established “captive audience” of deep-pocketed, lifetime residents, many who have been in the local workforce for 40+ years. In my mind, millenials can’t possibly “compete” with all of these factors and shouldn’t be expected to. They must be satisfied with what they have currently attained, stay humble and keep “showing up,” keeping themselves as “visible” as possible at work. They need to “pay their dues” if they want to be able to compete for future promotions. As worker-bees with 0-15 years experience, they can’t have everything NOW!

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