Why does Wall Street always get bailed out?

[one_muggle]

Former,

I see your points, but they generally only apply if you do not manage your taxes.

Taking 401K contributions it off the top of income helps actually those who don’t itemize

Filing separately the limit is 7850 and joint is 10,700, so unless you came in under that for retirement, plus say daycare, you would have exceeded the standard deduction.
Since the 401k limit is 15.5k, and daycare, as you say, is more than 5k, it is very easy to hit that limit quick, especially if you are married filing jointly.
A family can easily have 15.5k for dad, 15.5k for mom, and 5k for junior(s), adding up to 36k, which is way over the standard w/o having a mortgage.

Re Medical spending account claims –
They pay medical when you submit a claim and do not wait for all the deductions. If you use your entire election by February for example, they reimburse you the whole enchilada BEFORE they deduct from your paycheck.

No, that’s not true, at least not for any health care deduction program I have seen (UniAccount and FedGov). One may put in a claim, but you are not reimbursed until the money comes in. I would really like to see a program that reimburses prior to getting funded–what is yours?

Yes, the dependent car portion reimbursements are held up until after deducted from your check. However, these are typically regular predicatble amounts that you have to spend for day care.
If they are regular and expected, as you say, then you can easily take the deduction at the beginning of the year when you fill out your W-4. You do not need to wait until the end of the tax year–unless you enjoy lending Uncle Sam money.
And, if for some reason you don’t use up either account–you still give up the money.

My point was (and is) that if they really wanted to help the taxpayer, rather than help a little while pandering to the financial institution lobby, they would simply let you write it off.
It is simply wrong, in my book, for a family to put 31k into retirement, and 5k into daycare, but not get one dime closer to the standard deduction.

ucodegen
It is much better to have the money taken out pre-tax. I agree, sort of (after all you can reduce your tax burden ahead of time with the W-4), but my issue is that it does not apply to your deduction limit–which was done on purpose, and that is my beef.

-one muggle

[SD Realtor]

This is an interesting thread… I will say this that right out front I have worked with Chris before and I know him personally. In his profession Chris can make money regardless of the market direction as this is what he has done professionally. So it wouldn’t surprise me if he makes as much money either way the market goes…. I don’t think Chris is excusing poor behavior by buyers and is a bit more sympathetic to those who have been victims of fraud. Matt I could see though when I reread the post that your response is valid… What I am trying to say is it seems to me that there is an element of joy/look how much I made when the market tanks but this is not ever present on market moves in the other direction except for a few posts here and there.

I do acknowledge that many/most people here want what I want…. to be able to buy a home at an affordable price…

*************

I tried an experiment this afternoon and brought 3 coworkers over to read several of the threads that discussed the market and financial state. Now these are all engineers, one of whom is renting and is quite bearish, one who has his house paid off and has about a 600k stock portfolio, and another who rents and has blown alot of his money on cigarettes, gambling, and of course is single and has to send alot of his money back to his family in Vietnam. While totally different personalities, all 3 of them did say that there is a definite harsh tone on the threads regarding the financial markets. They generally agreed that there was an element of excitement and giddiness when there were poor stock market days and anger when there are good market days. That people were quick to announce big gains on down days, and nobody announced big gains on up days or those who did make big gains on positive bias were most likely to shy to post for fear of being criticized….

I would ask that more people here try the same experiment to see if they get the same results I did…

[SD Realtor]

This is an interesting thread… I will say this that right out front I have worked with Chris before and I know him personally. In his profession Chris can make money regardless of the market direction as this is what he has done professionally. So it wouldn’t surprise me if he makes as much money either way the market goes…. I don’t think Chris is excusing poor behavior by buyers and is a bit more sympathetic to those who have been victims of fraud. Matt I could see though when I reread the post that your response is valid… What I am trying to say is it seems to me that there is an element of joy/look how much I made when the market tanks but this is not ever present on market moves in the other direction except for a few posts here and there.

I do acknowledge that many/most people here want what I want…. to be able to buy a home at an affordable price…

*************

I tried an experiment this afternoon and brought 3 coworkers over to read several of the threads that discussed the market and financial state. Now these are all engineers, one of whom is renting and is quite bearish, one who has his house paid off and has about a 600k stock portfolio, and another who rents and has blown alot of his money on cigarettes, gambling, and of course is single and has to send alot of his money back to his family in Vietnam. While totally different personalities, all 3 of them did say that there is a definite harsh tone on the threads regarding the financial markets. They generally agreed that there was an element of excitement and giddiness when there were poor stock market days and anger when there are good market days. That people were quick to announce big gains on down days, and nobody announced big gains on up days or those who did make big gains on positive bias were most likely to shy to post for fear of being criticized….

I would ask that more people here try the same experiment to see if they get the same results I did…

[SD Realtor]

This is an interesting thread… I will say this that right out front I have worked with Chris before and I know him personally. In his profession Chris can make money regardless of the market direction as this is what he has done professionally. So it wouldn’t surprise me if he makes as much money either way the market goes…. I don’t think Chris is excusing poor behavior by buyers and is a bit more sympathetic to those who have been victims of fraud. Matt I could see though when I reread the post that your response is valid… What I am trying to say is it seems to me that there is an element of joy/look how much I made when the market tanks but this is not ever present on market moves in the other direction except for a few posts here and there.

I do acknowledge that many/most people here want what I want…. to be able to buy a home at an affordable price…

*************

I tried an experiment this afternoon and brought 3 coworkers over to read several of the threads that discussed the market and financial state. Now these are all engineers, one of whom is renting and is quite bearish, one who has his house paid off and has about a 600k stock portfolio, and another who rents and has blown alot of his money on cigarettes, gambling, and of course is single and has to send alot of his money back to his family in Vietnam. While totally different personalities, all 3 of them did say that there is a definite harsh tone on the threads regarding the financial markets. They generally agreed that there was an element of excitement and giddiness when there were poor stock market days and anger when there are good market days. That people were quick to announce big gains on down days, and nobody announced big gains on up days or those who did make big gains on positive bias were most likely to shy to post for fear of being criticized….

I would ask that more people here try the same experiment to see if they get the same results I did…

[falcon_eyes]

The way I looked at this is we’re playing the non zero sum games, which is unfair since there is this thing called “invisible hands” when the BIG HONCHO is losing on the house being protected in the name of everyone’ stability.

I wish we could play the zero sum games where yes, I’ll admit some people made big bucks when they reaped lots of bling bling profit in this recent housing boom market while others are losing their shirts as we’re in the housing bust mode now.

But someone might say, did you know that Life is not fair?

[falcon_eyes]

The way I looked at this is we’re playing the non zero sum games, which is unfair since there is this thing called “invisible hands” when the BIG HONCHO is losing on the house being protected in the name of everyone’ stability.

I wish we could play the zero sum games where yes, I’ll admit some people made big bucks when they reaped lots of bling bling profit in this recent housing boom market while others are losing their shirts as we’re in the housing bust mode now.

But someone might say, did you know that Life is not fair?

[falcon_eyes]

The way I looked at this is we’re playing the non zero sum games, which is unfair since there is this thing called “invisible hands” when the BIG HONCHO is losing on the house being protected in the name of everyone’ stability.

I wish we could play the zero sum games where yes, I’ll admit some people made big bucks when they reaped lots of bling bling profit in this recent housing boom market while others are losing their shirts as we’re in the housing bust mode now.

But someone might say, did you know that Life is not fair?

[one_muggle]

SDR,
all 3 of them did say that there is a definite harsh tone on the threads regarding the financial markets

I agree. I know I did make one “happy” comment when the Dow first tanked, but this was because the market had been shrugging off bad news for months and was going almost straight up. As a buy/hold investor of mainly small caps, it was frustrating waiting for the correction, knowing (as best anyone can) that one was in the wings.
But the joy at economic devestation on this board is a bit off-putting. There is a definite anti-bull mindset, which makes sense for housing given the genesis of the site, but it spills into stocks as well.
True wallstreet professionals, of whom I know too many, do make money on up and down markets, but not one of them talks the way most of the uber-bear braggards do. They do tend to sound alot like Chris.

-one muggle

[one_muggle]

SDR,
all 3 of them did say that there is a definite harsh tone on the threads regarding the financial markets

I agree. I know I did make one “happy” comment when the Dow first tanked, but this was because the market had been shrugging off bad news for months and was going almost straight up. As a buy/hold investor of mainly small caps, it was frustrating waiting for the correction, knowing (as best anyone can) that one was in the wings.
But the joy at economic devestation on this board is a bit off-putting. There is a definite anti-bull mindset, which makes sense for housing given the genesis of the site, but it spills into stocks as well.
True wallstreet professionals, of whom I know too many, do make money on up and down markets, but not one of them talks the way most of the uber-bear braggards do. They do tend to sound alot like Chris.

-one muggle

[one_muggle]

SDR,
all 3 of them did say that there is a definite harsh tone on the threads regarding the financial markets

I agree. I know I did make one “happy” comment when the Dow first tanked, but this was because the market had been shrugging off bad news for months and was going almost straight up. As a buy/hold investor of mainly small caps, it was frustrating waiting for the correction, knowing (as best anyone can) that one was in the wings.
But the joy at economic devestation on this board is a bit off-putting. There is a definite anti-bull mindset, which makes sense for housing given the genesis of the site, but it spills into stocks as well.
True wallstreet professionals, of whom I know too many, do make money on up and down markets, but not one of them talks the way most of the uber-bear braggards do. They do tend to sound alot like Chris.

-one muggle

[kewp]

I’m with Chris on this one.

Wall Street always gets ‘bailed out’ because, if it didn’t, the financial markets would seize up and it would be game over. Indeed, nobody wins in that scenario. Unless, that is, you live on another planet and are betting against the survival of the human financial system.

From my perspective, most of the people that should be getting dinged are at the moment. That is subprime borrowers (stupid, greedy poor people) and the hedgies (stupid, greedy rich people). The brokers that were moving and grading the securities seem to have gotten away for the most part; but one can’t have everything.

[kewp]

I’m with Chris on this one.

Wall Street always gets ‘bailed out’ because, if it didn’t, the financial markets would seize up and it would be game over. Indeed, nobody wins in that scenario. Unless, that is, you live on another planet and are betting against the survival of the human financial system.

From my perspective, most of the people that should be getting dinged are at the moment. That is subprime borrowers (stupid, greedy poor people) and the hedgies (stupid, greedy rich people). The brokers that were moving and grading the securities seem to have gotten away for the most part; but one can’t have everything.

[kewp]

I’m with Chris on this one.

Wall Street always gets ‘bailed out’ because, if it didn’t, the financial markets would seize up and it would be game over. Indeed, nobody wins in that scenario. Unless, that is, you live on another planet and are betting against the survival of the human financial system.

From my perspective, most of the people that should be getting dinged are at the moment. That is subprime borrowers (stupid, greedy poor people) and the hedgies (stupid, greedy rich people). The brokers that were moving and grading the securities seem to have gotten away for the most part; but one can’t have everything.

[Nancy_s soothsayer]

Poor Mr. Countrywide-CEO Mozillo. His over $500-Million cash-outs were not yet good enough for him, he was crying for a bailout so that the gravy train for him keep on chugging along. And he got his wish from his friends from the Fed. (Sarcasm off)

The supply-side, trickle down bailout he received would hopefully throw some bits and scraps to the homedebtors in 4-Closure ranch.

Piggs are 99.99% humane and don’t wish harm to anybody. We are like the WEATHERMEN on tv who point out to a Cat.5 hurricane coming. We may look giddy and excited delivering the news, but we sure don’t wish any harm or don’t hope for armageddon on anybody. We are just focusing on the fact that everybody should take precaution and seek financial shelter AND don’t repeat the mistakes of stupid suckers. We also debate on what’s the best strategy to deal with the coming onslaught.

Why can’t some people here be MORE SOPHISTICATED to know the nuance of our giddyness and stop badgering us as nefarious people. Enough already.

[Nancy_s soothsayer]

Poor Mr. Countrywide-CEO Mozillo. His over $500-Million cash-outs were not yet good enough for him, he was crying for a bailout so that the gravy train for him keep on chugging along. And he got his wish from his friends from the Fed. (Sarcasm off)

The supply-side, trickle down bailout he received would hopefully throw some bits and scraps to the homedebtors in 4-Closure ranch.

Piggs are 99.99% humane and don’t wish harm to anybody. We are like the WEATHERMEN on tv who point out to a Cat.5 hurricane coming. We may look giddy and excited delivering the news, but we sure don’t wish any harm or don’t hope for armageddon on anybody. We are just focusing on the fact that everybody should take precaution and seek financial shelter AND don’t repeat the mistakes of stupid suckers. We also debate on what’s the best strategy to deal with the coming onslaught.

Why can’t some people here be MORE SOPHISTICATED to know the nuance of our giddyness and stop badgering us as nefarious people. Enough already.

[Author]

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