Which public schools are better: Carmel Valley or La Jolla

[carli]

Yes, Rhett, absolutely right, thanks for pointing that out. It becomes very confusing, but some areas in Carmel Valley (mostly around Del Mar Heights Rd) are actually in Solana Beach school district for elementary and then starting in middle school, the kids merge back together and all of Carmel Valley goes to SDUHSD mid/high schools. Even some realtors don’t know this and I’ve heard of houses sold to people who thought they were in DMUSD and were actually in Solana Beach elementary schools…not that it makes a big difference as both districts are excellent.

Here’s a boundary map of elementary schools within the DMUSD: http://www.dmusd.org/cms/lib02/CA01001898/Centricity/Domain/49/Boundary_Map_-_District_Wide.pdf

[utcsox]

Please also check out Jim the Realtor blog:
http://www.bubbleinfo.com/category/carmel-valley/

Below website also has good information of the communities in Carmel Valley.
http://www.cv-home.com/

Carmel Valley is in high demand due to its excellent public schools and close proximity to the job centers. The coastal part of CV, south of 56, also has one excellent selling point: against the traffic if you work in downtown area.

[cvmom]

[quote=carli]When they get to mid/high school, their “default” schools would be Carmel Valley Middle School [/quote]

While this is true now, there is a new middle school being built across the street from Canyon Crest High. I believe it will be completed in 3-4 years…? So at that point Carmel Valley Middle would perhaps no longer be the default middle school.

[quote=XBoxBoy]I can tell you that we have a number of friends who have kids in CV and most of them are much happier with the schools than the friends we have in LJ.[/quote]

100% agree with this. I have several friends in the LJ schools. None of them are as happy with their schools as we and our friends/neighbors have been with the CV schools, as least middle/high schools.

[quote=Rhett]Torrey Pines probably does a little better on the high school level than La Jolla[/quote]

Actually, Canyon Crest Academy has pulled ahead of TP in test scores over the last couple of years. TP seems to be becoming more of the “sports” school, CCA more the academic (and of course artsy) school.

Good luck to the OP with finding a home!

[DaCounselor]

Actually I don’t think the LJ public schools are comparable to the CV schools. Far more kids from outside the boundaries in LJ than CV. I think a quarter of LJ High students do not reside in the area. A much much higher % of free-lunchers. Everyone I know who lives in LJ sends their kids to private schools.

In CV a number of schools are overcrowded, including CV Middle. The new middle school should solve that though. Also a tremendous inflow of Asians in CV is shaping the demographic significantly.

$1.2 is going to go way further in CV. It’s going to go even further in La Costa, which is where I would be looking if I didn’t have to commute. You might want to take a look up there. I think that area trumps CV in terms of housing, schools and shopping. Good Luck!

[UCGal]

[quote=DaCounselor]Actually I don’t think the LJ public schools are comparable to the CV schools. Far more kids from outside the boundaries in LJ than CV. I think a quarter of LJ High students do not reside in the area. A much much higher % of free-lunchers. Everyone I know who lives in LJ sends their kids to private schools.

In CV a number of schools are overcrowded, including CV Middle. The new middle school should solve that though. Also a tremendous inflow of Asians in CV is shaping the demographic significantly.

$1.2 is going to go way further in CV. It’s going to go even further in La Costa, which is where I would be looking if I didn’t have to commute. You might want to take a look up there. I think that area trumps CV in terms of housing, schools and shopping. Good Luck![/quote]

The statistics on the number of out of boundary kids is available online. The percent of choice applications accepted in La Jolla is fairly low.
http://www.sandi.net/cms/lib/CA01001235/Centricity/Domain/80/1st%20choice%20percent%20selected%202012-2013.pdf

Birdrock elementary accepted only 6% of the choice applications received. Torrey Pines elementary accepted 4%. La Jolla Elementary accepted ZERO. (Please note – I believe this includes in-cluster seminar applications. So a kid at Bird Rock or Torrey Pines who tests seminar still has to choice into La Jolla Elementary to participate in the seminar program.) Muirlands accepted 38% of the applications, and La Jolla High accepted 35% of the applications to choice in.

These are not percentages of student body, this is the percentage of people successful in applying from outside the La Jolla High cluster. It’s low because they are sought after schools.

I have a lot of friends who’ve been declined choice admittance… from such horrible areas as UC High and Scripps Ranch High. < snark > I only know one family that was successful this year. And that student is coming from La Jolla Country Day.

I wouldn’t denigrate people who live outside the La Jolla High boundaries as lesser students. And that’s the way it comes off when you site it as a negative.

[DaCounselor]

Thanks for the excellent chart UCGal. Does it include all the PISC and VEEP kids or is it just straight open enrollment data? In either event it does not encompass the continuity students although I am sure that data is out there somewhere. Overall I would hazard a guess that the total number is significant as LJ is an affluent area and about 1/3 of the kids at Muirlands and LJ High are on the free/reduced lunch program.

As for the “lesser students” remark, I admit I could be completely off-base in jumping to the assumption that the test scores and academic performance of the kids coming in from outside 92037 are lower than the locals’. I suppose that data is out there too. How each person feels about the facts surrounding enrollment at the LJ schools is up to them.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=DaCounselor]Thanks for the excellent chart UCGal. Does it include all the PISC and VEEP kids or is it just straight open enrollment data? In either event it does not encompass the continuity students although I am sure that data is out there somewhere. Overall I would hazard a guess that the total number is significant as LJ is an affluent area and about 1/3 of the kids at Muirlands and LJ High are on the free/reduced lunch program.

As for the “lesser students” remark, I admit I could be completely off-base in jumping to the assumption that the test scores and academic performance of the kids coming in from outside 92037 are lower than the locals’. I suppose that data is out there too. How each person feels about the facts surrounding enrollment at the LJ schools is up to them.[/quote]

DaCounselor, I don’t know if you live in LJ and/or are raising a family there, but if you are, how would you feel if LJ High and one of their elem schools were shut down? If there was no VEEP, CHOICE and various magnet programs to move District students around, certainly, LJ could do with one less elem school and bus their dwindling HS-age population elsewhere, no? There is no longer enough homeowners and tenants in LJ “proper” (actually NOT a “proper” because it is in the City of SD) to fill its schools there as there once was. The vast majority of today’s families can’t afford the exorbitant prices of the RE there and haven’t been able to for more than 20 years. As such, LJ will be inhabited by more and more of the “retired set” every year. In any case, the younger Gen X and Gen Y parent-crowd isn’t going to buy or rent a 1500 sf “cottage” when they can get 2500 sf elsewhere for less than half the price. They are also turned off by the advanced age of LJ’s housing stock and the complexity and cost of remodeling there.

Closing schools where there is no longer enough of a local student population to attend them has happened in many metro areas in the country. Given the direction the State’s budget has been taking in recent years, don’t think this can’t happen to SDUSD.

Be glad for the District’s transfer-in programs keeping schools open in areas where there are not enough students to make it pencil out. These transfer opportunities aren’t offered to the District’s student-slackers. They are offered to the cream of the crop of the various attendance clusters they hail from. The vast majority of these kids KNOW they are very fortunate and will continually perform in school and ride two buses each way there and back for as long as they have that opportunity.

Conversely, the “surfer dude” who grew up in LJ and could care less about school has a right to attend all of the LJ schools by virtue of his residency. He may or may not end up graduating there but later obtain a GED or graduate from LJ High with a 2.0 GPA with or without successful completion of his A – G requirements for CA public university admission.

Just because a kid grew up in LJ doesn’t mean he/she actually has any drive to accomplish anything in life.

[FishGuy]

I went to LJES, Muirlands and LJHS, and graduated in the mid-90’s. Not sure if it’s still the case, but at that time there were several hundred students bussed in from SouthEast San Diego every morning.

While many of them took advantage of the opportunity afforded them, a large number brought their gangster ways with them. The gang presence on campus was fairly strong, and graffiti and fights were common.

We had an open campus for lunch and the streets and homes in the surrounding neighborhood were regularly tagged up. I believe the campus was closed a year or so after I graduated due to this problem.

Most of us LJ kids weren’t greatly affected by the gangsters, as the groups remained fairly segregated. A few people did catch a beating for walking into the bathroom at the wrong time, though. Many of us actually liked having them around, as drugs were always readily available.

Again, I don’t know if things are the same today. That was just my experience nearly 20 years ago.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=FishGuy]I went to LJES, Muirlands and LJHS, and graduated in the mid-90’s. Not sure if it’s still the case, but at that time there were several hundred students bussed in from SouthEast San Diego every morning.

While many of them took advantage of the opportunity afforded them, a large number brought their gangster ways with them. The gang presence on campus was fairly strong, and graffiti and fights were common.

We had an open campus for lunch and the streets and homes in the surrounding neighborhood were regularly tagged up. I believe the campus was closed a year or so after I graduated due to this problem.

Most of us LJ kids weren’t greatly affected by the gangsters, as the groups remained fairly segregated. A few people did catch a beating for walking into the bathroom at the wrong time, though. Many of us actually liked having them around, as drugs were always readily available.

Again, I don’t know if things are the same today. That was just my experience nearly 20 years ago.[/quote]

Very interesting Fish Guy. This just shows that 20 years ago, there weren’t even enough local kids to fill LJ High. It is possible that there haven’t been enough there for 30-40 years.

I DO know that today’s VEEP transfers now have to get themselves to their distant school as the budget for busing in all Districts is close to nil. They buy a MTS student bus/trolley pass for $36 month. This is a LOT of money for a low-income worker family or a family on TANF, especially since a lot of these kids can undoubtedly qualify for free school bus service to/from the schools in their own attendance areas.

In SUHSD, school bus passes to/from for an academic year are currently $172 or 65 cents per ride, unless the student is qualified to ride free (parent submits tax return and verification of EBT/TANF to the District, and, in some cases, their social worker is called). In addition, the District has shortened the bus routes to accomodate more students, making many of them walk an additional 6 blocks to the bus stop.

Welcome to Transportation

For these reasons, most resident students who can’t walk and don’t have rides take the CVT to get to school and back (public transportation for $36 mo).

[DaCounselor]

That is very interesting bearishgurl because I thought just the opposite was true – ie; most of the transfer programs give priority to the lowest achievers not the “cream of the crop” as you say.
I recall looking at this a few years ago when LJ was still a contender as a place to raise the family. I will try to find that info. Do you have a link to a source that shows only the cream of the crop are offered these opportunities? Thanks.

I am also fairly certain that there was a study performed in the last decade that attempted to track academic performance of the transfer set and that there was essentially no change in scores, but I don’t have the data, I’m sure it exists somewhere.

Keeping with the original intent of this thread, I still don’t see any basis to support the idea that the LJ public schools can match those in CV or the other top areas.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=DaCounselor] . . . Keeping with the original intent of this thread, I still don’t see any basis to support the idea that the LJ public schools can match those in CV or the other top areas.[/quote]

I’ll try to find out the details of the VEEP program later this evening.

I think the reason the public schools in LJ (not the “LJ Public Schools” because they are schools within SDUSD) may not get as high of test scores (haven’t really checked if this is true, either) as those schools in CV is due to resident-family culture differences in the respective attendance areas. Parents of Asian cultures tend to be stricter on their kids than American-born parents are, they value rote memorization and demand a certain level of performance from their kids. I don’t know the percentages but know that CV is FULL of Asian kids.

My lengthy experience with members of the Asian culture (friends/longtime co-workers) leads me to believe that they also highly value newer construction over older construction unless that is all that is available in their preferred area (ex: SF and San Mateo/Santa Clara Counties). Thus, even if they can afford it, I don’t think very many affluent Asian families have been attracted to LJ since CV has been built out. This is neither bad nor good. It is a cultural preference.

I don’t know the racial makeup of the SD public schools in LJ attendance areas but I suspect their demographics are similar to those of the public schools surrounding those areas and the rest of North City (North of I-8).

IMO, so much of the demographics have changed and moved around in SD County since it became a sprawling megalopolis with hundreds of new subdivisions for housing choices (from about 1991 forward) and so the “glory days” of viewing LJ as a place to raise a family have likely faded somewhat.

This phenomenon won’t affect the values in LJ as there are PLENTY of all cash or nearly all cash buyers from all over the world who appreciate LJ for what it is and KNOW that it is one of a kind.

Perception of quality of local schools only matters to ONE segment of buyers and those are the ones currently in “family-raising mode.”

[earlyretirement]

[quote=DaCounselor]That is very interesting bearishgurl because I thought just the opposite was true – ie; most of the transfer programs give priority to the lowest achievers not the “cream of the crop” as you say.
I recall looking at this a few years ago when LJ was still a contender as a place to raise the family. I will try to find that info. Do you have a link to a source that shows only the cream of the crop are offered these opportunities? Thanks.

I am also fairly certain that there was a study performed in the last decade that attempted to track academic performance of the transfer set and that there was essentially no change in scores, but I don’t have the data, I’m sure it exists somewhere.

Keeping with the original intent of this thread, I still don’t see any basis to support the idea that the LJ public schools can match those in CV or the other top areas.[/quote]

This is a super interesting thread. More along the lines of what DaCounselor is asking, what criteria is used to determine who is accepted in these transfers? Is there some level of criteria that puts one ahead of the list vs. someone else?

If anyone out there knows I’d be curious how they prioritize these requests.

[SK in CV]

[quote=DaCounselor]
Keeping with the original intent of this thread, I still don’t see any basis to support the idea that the LJ public schools can match those in CV or the other top areas.[/quote]

To the contrary, I think there’s no evidence that the quality of education is significantly different between LJ and Carmel Valley. Smart kids with involved parents equals successful students. It isn’t teachers and it isn’t schools that make successful students. Both areas have smart kids and involved parents, as well as schools that provide an environment to allow the students to thrive.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=SK in CV]To the contrary, I think there’s no evidence that the quality of education is significantly different between LJ and Carmel Valley. Smart kids with involved parents equals successful students. It isn’t teachers and it isn’t schools that make successful students. Both areas have smart kids and involved parents, as well as schools that provide an environment to allow the students to thrive.[/quote]

I agree except to add that I think some kids will be smart and successful no matter how involved or uninvolved their parents might be. It is difficult for many parents (esp if separated in age from their kids by 2 or more generations) to grasp the material in public school textbooks today, let alone be able to help with homework. If all parents of school-aged children provide a lighted quiet place for their kids to study, computer(s) to use and make sure their kids eat right and get enough sleep, and provide tutors, if necessary, these actions go a long way towards ensuring their kids perform well in school, IMHO.

[sjglaze3]

Hi I just had to reply to this thread. My daughter attends Muirlands and is going to LJHS in the fall. She is a VEEP student and takes a school bus in the morning (yes BG the district is still running free school busing). There was no academic requirement, high or low, for being a VEEP student, just being in the right cluster area (we live in South Park). I have been very impressed with the academic rigor at Muirlands and its very strict no tolerance policy on bullying, drugs etc. Incidentally my daughter has a 3.8 GPA and her local bused in friends are likewise doing well academically. Just my 2 cents.

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