What will the bottom look/feel like?

[jdsuowner]

For anyone who has been through the housing bottom in 95/96 and also in the 80’s even, what did that look/feel like then? Were people even interested in housing? Did anyone say “wow housing is a great buy, I think we should buy”? Do you guys think we will get the same look/feeling this bottom whenever that might be of course?

[Bugs]

The bottom of the market looks like the bottom of the market. Credit terms are tough, underwriting is tough, appraisals are tough and nobody offers the benefit of the doubt. The properties being sold aren’t usually in the best shape and the transactions sometimes get complicated, depending on what’s happening on the seller’s side.

The agents on this board frequently comment that the primo properties you might have the most interest in aren’t among the ones that are listed in a bottomed out market. I dunno that I exactly agree with that but I don’t entirely disagree either.

I cannot emphasize enough how difficult the credit terms are in a down market. Don’t expect the bargain basement interest rates.

[Anonymous]

Bugs, how about new housing developments? Will new home communities be in abundance here in Temecula and Murrieta since we still have land? I’m not worried about resales at all since I’ll probably be buying brand new.

[paramount]

Land in Temecula? Not really, it was announced last year that Temecula was built-out.

Now there are still some projects on the books that have not been started, but basically Temecula is done.

[Anonymous]

Well, Murrieta is fine. I’m sure there will be plenty of new homes built here.

[nostradamus]

IMO we are in stage 3 of a 5-stage descent. Stage 4 will begin when more companies announce downsizing leading to layoffs and more foreclosures. Stage 5 (the bottom) is a global divot but China’s lookin’ good.

[nostradamus]

IMO we are in stage 3 of a 5-stage descent. Stage 4 will begin when more companies announce downsizing leading to layoffs and more foreclosures. Stage 5 (the bottom) is a global divot but China’s lookin’ good.

[nostradamus]

IMO we are in stage 3 of a 5-stage descent. Stage 4 will begin when more companies announce downsizing leading to layoffs and more foreclosures. Stage 5 (the bottom) is a global divot but China’s lookin’ good.

[nostradamus]

IMO we are in stage 3 of a 5-stage descent. Stage 4 will begin when more companies announce downsizing leading to layoffs and more foreclosures. Stage 5 (the bottom) is a global divot but China’s lookin’ good.

[nostradamus]

IMO we are in stage 3 of a 5-stage descent. Stage 4 will begin when more companies announce downsizing leading to layoffs and more foreclosures. Stage 5 (the bottom) is a global divot but China’s lookin’ good.

[nostradamus]

IMO we are in stage 3 of a 5-stage descent. Stage 4 will begin when more companies announce downsizing leading to layoffs and more foreclosures. Stage 5 (the bottom) is a global divot but China’s lookin’ good.

[paramount]

I think there will be an over-correction/reaction.

When banks are basically lending no money, they will have over-reacted.

[Anonymous]

IMO we are in stage 3 of a 5-stage descent. Stage 4 will begin when more companies announce downsizing leading to layoffs and more foreclosures. Stage 5 (the bottom) is a global divot but China’s lookin’ good.

I think there will be an over-correction/reaction.

When banks are basically lending no money, they will have over-reacted.

ok, ok, but will somebody tell me when there will be builders building new homes here in Murrieta at realistic prices? Anywhere from $75-$100 sf?

I am mentally worn out!

[nostradamus]

ok, ok, but will somebody tell me when there will be builders building new homes here in Murrieta at realistic prices? Anywhere from $75-$100 sf?

I am mentally worn out!

Nobody is that clairvoyant but I'd say you have a year or two to chill. Maybe ask Rustico, he's a builder. I don't know whether it's even worth it for a builder to build for $75/sf. Would they even… break even?

[paramount]

Marion, I can tell your mentally worn out – I will now tell you the correct answer: it depends, houses vary and so do prices.

Beyond that, here is the true correct answer IMO: If you feel like you a want to settle in an area, your job is going reasonably well, the family is happy – you find a house you can reasonably afford and like, with a 30 year fixed mortgage.

You still need to be able to save for retirement etc…be reasonable about the price and your expectations.

Then, you move in with your family and enjoy life. Go camping, go to the library, curl up and read a book, watch movies, etc…the things that are really important in life to most families.

Trying to time the market to near perfection, worrying about what your neighbors house is worth, tracking your home value to the penny. For most people, this is a sickness IMO – that’s probably why your worn out.

I’m not saying buy a house for a ridiculous price, of course not. In this market and with your knowledge, I doubt you would.

[Anonymous]

Marion, I can tell your mentally worn out – I will now tell you the correct answer: it depends, houses vary and so do prices.

I’m not saying buy a house for a ridiculous price, of course not. In this market and with your knowledge, I doubt you would.

Hi, Paramount. Thanks, I’m just tired and sick of renting. In a year’s time prices will probably be where I want to see them. I will say I am so surprised by the huge price drops I’m seeing everyday on realtyzip. It is really bleeding in my area now. Not blood on the streets yet, but it’s obvious it’s gonna get there soon.

[Anonymous]

Marion, I can tell your mentally worn out – I will now tell you the correct answer: it depends, houses vary and so do prices.

I’m not saying buy a house for a ridiculous price, of course not. In this market and with your knowledge, I doubt you would.

Hi, Paramount. Thanks, I’m just tired and sick of renting. In a year’s time prices will probably be where I want to see them. I will say I am so surprised by the huge price drops I’m seeing everyday on realtyzip. It is really bleeding in my area now. Not blood on the streets yet, but it’s obvious it’s gonna get there soon.

[Anonymous]

Marion, I can tell your mentally worn out – I will now tell you the correct answer: it depends, houses vary and so do prices.

I’m not saying buy a house for a ridiculous price, of course not. In this market and with your knowledge, I doubt you would.

Hi, Paramount. Thanks, I’m just tired and sick of renting. In a year’s time prices will probably be where I want to see them. I will say I am so surprised by the huge price drops I’m seeing everyday on realtyzip. It is really bleeding in my area now. Not blood on the streets yet, but it’s obvious it’s gonna get there soon.

[Anonymous]

Marion, I can tell your mentally worn out – I will now tell you the correct answer: it depends, houses vary and so do prices.

I’m not saying buy a house for a ridiculous price, of course not. In this market and with your knowledge, I doubt you would.

Hi, Paramount. Thanks, I’m just tired and sick of renting. In a year’s time prices will probably be where I want to see them. I will say I am so surprised by the huge price drops I’m seeing everyday on realtyzip. It is really bleeding in my area now. Not blood on the streets yet, but it’s obvious it’s gonna get there soon.

[Anonymous]

Marion, I can tell your mentally worn out – I will now tell you the correct answer: it depends, houses vary and so do prices.

I’m not saying buy a house for a ridiculous price, of course not. In this market and with your knowledge, I doubt you would.

Hi, Paramount. Thanks, I’m just tired and sick of renting. In a year’s time prices will probably be where I want to see them. I will say I am so surprised by the huge price drops I’m seeing everyday on realtyzip. It is really bleeding in my area now. Not blood on the streets yet, but it’s obvious it’s gonna get there soon.

[paramount]

Marion, I can tell your mentally worn out – I will now tell you the correct answer: it depends, houses vary and so do prices.

Beyond that, here is the true correct answer IMO: If you feel like you a want to settle in an area, your job is going reasonably well, the family is happy – you find a house you can reasonably afford and like, with a 30 year fixed mortgage.

You still need to be able to save for retirement etc…be reasonable about the price and your expectations.

Then, you move in with your family and enjoy life. Go camping, go to the library, curl up and read a book, watch movies, etc…the things that are really important in life to most families.

Trying to time the market to near perfection, worrying about what your neighbors house is worth, tracking your home value to the penny. For most people, this is a sickness IMO – that’s probably why your worn out.

I’m not saying buy a house for a ridiculous price, of course not. In this market and with your knowledge, I doubt you would.

[paramount]

Marion, I can tell your mentally worn out – I will now tell you the correct answer: it depends, houses vary and so do prices.

Beyond that, here is the true correct answer IMO: If you feel like you a want to settle in an area, your job is going reasonably well, the family is happy – you find a house you can reasonably afford and like, with a 30 year fixed mortgage.

You still need to be able to save for retirement etc…be reasonable about the price and your expectations.

Then, you move in with your family and enjoy life. Go camping, go to the library, curl up and read a book, watch movies, etc…the things that are really important in life to most families.

Trying to time the market to near perfection, worrying about what your neighbors house is worth, tracking your home value to the penny. For most people, this is a sickness IMO – that’s probably why your worn out.

I’m not saying buy a house for a ridiculous price, of course not. In this market and with your knowledge, I doubt you would.

[paramount]

Marion, I can tell your mentally worn out – I will now tell you the correct answer: it depends, houses vary and so do prices.

Beyond that, here is the true correct answer IMO: If you feel like you a want to settle in an area, your job is going reasonably well, the family is happy – you find a house you can reasonably afford and like, with a 30 year fixed mortgage.

You still need to be able to save for retirement etc…be reasonable about the price and your expectations.

Then, you move in with your family and enjoy life. Go camping, go to the library, curl up and read a book, watch movies, etc…the things that are really important in life to most families.

Trying to time the market to near perfection, worrying about what your neighbors house is worth, tracking your home value to the penny. For most people, this is a sickness IMO – that’s probably why your worn out.

I’m not saying buy a house for a ridiculous price, of course not. In this market and with your knowledge, I doubt you would.

[paramount]

Marion, I can tell your mentally worn out – I will now tell you the correct answer: it depends, houses vary and so do prices.

Beyond that, here is the true correct answer IMO: If you feel like you a want to settle in an area, your job is going reasonably well, the family is happy – you find a house you can reasonably afford and like, with a 30 year fixed mortgage.

You still need to be able to save for retirement etc…be reasonable about the price and your expectations.

Then, you move in with your family and enjoy life. Go camping, go to the library, curl up and read a book, watch movies, etc…the things that are really important in life to most families.

Trying to time the market to near perfection, worrying about what your neighbors house is worth, tracking your home value to the penny. For most people, this is a sickness IMO – that’s probably why your worn out.

I’m not saying buy a house for a ridiculous price, of course not. In this market and with your knowledge, I doubt you would.

[nostradamus]

ok, ok, but will somebody tell me when there will be builders building new homes here in Murrieta at realistic prices? Anywhere from $75-$100 sf?

I am mentally worn out!

Nobody is that clairvoyant but I'd say you have a year or two to chill. Maybe ask Rustico, he's a builder. I don't know whether it's even worth it for a builder to build for $75/sf. Would they even… break even?

[nostradamus]

ok, ok, but will somebody tell me when there will be builders building new homes here in Murrieta at realistic prices? Anywhere from $75-$100 sf?

I am mentally worn out!

Nobody is that clairvoyant but I'd say you have a year or two to chill. Maybe ask Rustico, he's a builder. I don't know whether it's even worth it for a builder to build for $75/sf. Would they even… break even?

[nostradamus]

ok, ok, but will somebody tell me when there will be builders building new homes here in Murrieta at realistic prices? Anywhere from $75-$100 sf?

I am mentally worn out!

Nobody is that clairvoyant but I'd say you have a year or two to chill. Maybe ask Rustico, he's a builder. I don't know whether it's even worth it for a builder to build for $75/sf. Would they even… break even?

[nostradamus]

ok, ok, but will somebody tell me when there will be builders building new homes here in Murrieta at realistic prices? Anywhere from $75-$100 sf?

I am mentally worn out!

Nobody is that clairvoyant but I'd say you have a year or two to chill. Maybe ask Rustico, he's a builder. I don't know whether it's even worth it for a builder to build for $75/sf. Would they even… break even?

[Anonymous]

IMO we are in stage 3 of a 5-stage descent. Stage 4 will begin when more companies announce downsizing leading to layoffs and more foreclosures. Stage 5 (the bottom) is a global divot but China’s lookin’ good.

I think there will be an over-correction/reaction.

When banks are basically lending no money, they will have over-reacted.

ok, ok, but will somebody tell me when there will be builders building new homes here in Murrieta at realistic prices? Anywhere from $75-$100 sf?

I am mentally worn out!

[Anonymous]

IMO we are in stage 3 of a 5-stage descent. Stage 4 will begin when more companies announce downsizing leading to layoffs and more foreclosures. Stage 5 (the bottom) is a global divot but China’s lookin’ good.

I think there will be an over-correction/reaction.

When banks are basically lending no money, they will have over-reacted.

ok, ok, but will somebody tell me when there will be builders building new homes here in Murrieta at realistic prices? Anywhere from $75-$100 sf?

I am mentally worn out!

[Anonymous]

IMO we are in stage 3 of a 5-stage descent. Stage 4 will begin when more companies announce downsizing leading to layoffs and more foreclosures. Stage 5 (the bottom) is a global divot but China’s lookin’ good.

I think there will be an over-correction/reaction.

When banks are basically lending no money, they will have over-reacted.

ok, ok, but will somebody tell me when there will be builders building new homes here in Murrieta at realistic prices? Anywhere from $75-$100 sf?

I am mentally worn out!

[Anonymous]

IMO we are in stage 3 of a 5-stage descent. Stage 4 will begin when more companies announce downsizing leading to layoffs and more foreclosures. Stage 5 (the bottom) is a global divot but China’s lookin’ good.

I think there will be an over-correction/reaction.

When banks are basically lending no money, they will have over-reacted.

ok, ok, but will somebody tell me when there will be builders building new homes here in Murrieta at realistic prices? Anywhere from $75-$100 sf?

I am mentally worn out!

[paramount]

I think there will be an over-correction/reaction.

When banks are basically lending no money, they will have over-reacted.

[paramount]

I think there will be an over-correction/reaction.

When banks are basically lending no money, they will have over-reacted.

[paramount]

I think there will be an over-correction/reaction.

When banks are basically lending no money, they will have over-reacted.

[paramount]

I think there will be an over-correction/reaction.

When banks are basically lending no money, they will have over-reacted.

[paramount]

I think there will be an over-correction/reaction.

When banks are basically lending no money, they will have over-reacted.

[little lady]

“The bottom of the market looks like the bottom of the market. Credit terms are tough, underwriting is tough, appraisals are tough and nobody offers the benefit of the doubt. The properties being sold aren’t usually in the best shape and the transactions sometimes get complicated, depending on what’s happening on the seller’s side.”

I bought in November ’95 and moved in Jan ’96. The credit was easy, I got a 6% interest rate, the appraisal was easy, the seller’s had to fix it up some but other than that, there were no complications…….I got really upset when the interest rates started falling after I bought my house. The houses dropped a little further and I could’ve got a little bigger and better house. All my friends who bought around that time had the same experience.

[little lady]

“The bottom of the market looks like the bottom of the market. Credit terms are tough, underwriting is tough, appraisals are tough and nobody offers the benefit of the doubt. The properties being sold aren’t usually in the best shape and the transactions sometimes get complicated, depending on what’s happening on the seller’s side.”

I bought in November ’95 and moved in Jan ’96. The credit was easy, I got a 6% interest rate, the appraisal was easy, the seller’s had to fix it up some but other than that, there were no complications…….I got really upset when the interest rates started falling after I bought my house. The houses dropped a little further and I could’ve got a little bigger and better house. All my friends who bought around that time had the same experience.

[little lady]

“The bottom of the market looks like the bottom of the market. Credit terms are tough, underwriting is tough, appraisals are tough and nobody offers the benefit of the doubt. The properties being sold aren’t usually in the best shape and the transactions sometimes get complicated, depending on what’s happening on the seller’s side.”

I bought in November ’95 and moved in Jan ’96. The credit was easy, I got a 6% interest rate, the appraisal was easy, the seller’s had to fix it up some but other than that, there were no complications…….I got really upset when the interest rates started falling after I bought my house. The houses dropped a little further and I could’ve got a little bigger and better house. All my friends who bought around that time had the same experience.

[little lady]

“The bottom of the market looks like the bottom of the market. Credit terms are tough, underwriting is tough, appraisals are tough and nobody offers the benefit of the doubt. The properties being sold aren’t usually in the best shape and the transactions sometimes get complicated, depending on what’s happening on the seller’s side.”

I bought in November ’95 and moved in Jan ’96. The credit was easy, I got a 6% interest rate, the appraisal was easy, the seller’s had to fix it up some but other than that, there were no complications…….I got really upset when the interest rates started falling after I bought my house. The houses dropped a little further and I could’ve got a little bigger and better house. All my friends who bought around that time had the same experience.

[little lady]

“The bottom of the market looks like the bottom of the market. Credit terms are tough, underwriting is tough, appraisals are tough and nobody offers the benefit of the doubt. The properties being sold aren’t usually in the best shape and the transactions sometimes get complicated, depending on what’s happening on the seller’s side.”

I bought in November ’95 and moved in Jan ’96. The credit was easy, I got a 6% interest rate, the appraisal was easy, the seller’s had to fix it up some but other than that, there were no complications…….I got really upset when the interest rates started falling after I bought my house. The houses dropped a little further and I could’ve got a little bigger and better house. All my friends who bought around that time had the same experience.

[little lady]

“The bottom of the market looks like the bottom of the market. Credit terms are tough, underwriting is tough, appraisals are tough and nobody offers the benefit of the doubt. The properties being sold aren’t usually in the best shape and the transactions sometimes get complicated, depending on what’s happening on the seller’s side.”

I bought in November ’95 and moved in Jan ’96. The credit was easy, I got a 6% interest rate, the appraisal was easy, the seller’s had to fix it up some but other than that, there were no complications…….I got really upset when the interest rates started falling after I bought my house. The houses dropped a little further and I could’ve got a little bigger and better house. All my friends who bought around that time had the same experience.

[Anonymous]

Well, Murrieta is fine. I’m sure there will be plenty of new homes built here.

[Anonymous]

Well, Murrieta is fine. I’m sure there will be plenty of new homes built here.

[Anonymous]

Well, Murrieta is fine. I’m sure there will be plenty of new homes built here.

[Anonymous]

Well, Murrieta is fine. I’m sure there will be plenty of new homes built here.

[paramount]

Land in Temecula? Not really, it was announced last year that Temecula was built-out.

Now there are still some projects on the books that have not been started, but basically Temecula is done.

[paramount]

Land in Temecula? Not really, it was announced last year that Temecula was built-out.

Now there are still some projects on the books that have not been started, but basically Temecula is done.

[paramount]

Land in Temecula? Not really, it was announced last year that Temecula was built-out.

Now there are still some projects on the books that have not been started, but basically Temecula is done.

[paramount]

Land in Temecula? Not really, it was announced last year that Temecula was built-out.

Now there are still some projects on the books that have not been started, but basically Temecula is done.

[Anonymous]

Bugs, how about new housing developments? Will new home communities be in abundance here in Temecula and Murrieta since we still have land? I’m not worried about resales at all since I’ll probably be buying brand new.

[Anonymous]

Bugs, how about new housing developments? Will new home communities be in abundance here in Temecula and Murrieta since we still have land? I’m not worried about resales at all since I’ll probably be buying brand new.

[Anonymous]

Bugs, how about new housing developments? Will new home communities be in abundance here in Temecula and Murrieta since we still have land? I’m not worried about resales at all since I’ll probably be buying brand new.

[Anonymous]

Bugs, how about new housing developments? Will new home communities be in abundance here in Temecula and Murrieta since we still have land? I’m not worried about resales at all since I’ll probably be buying brand new.

[Bugs]

The bottom of the market looks like the bottom of the market. Credit terms are tough, underwriting is tough, appraisals are tough and nobody offers the benefit of the doubt. The properties being sold aren’t usually in the best shape and the transactions sometimes get complicated, depending on what’s happening on the seller’s side.

The agents on this board frequently comment that the primo properties you might have the most interest in aren’t among the ones that are listed in a bottomed out market. I dunno that I exactly agree with that but I don’t entirely disagree either.

I cannot emphasize enough how difficult the credit terms are in a down market. Don’t expect the bargain basement interest rates.

[Bugs]

The bottom of the market looks like the bottom of the market. Credit terms are tough, underwriting is tough, appraisals are tough and nobody offers the benefit of the doubt. The properties being sold aren’t usually in the best shape and the transactions sometimes get complicated, depending on what’s happening on the seller’s side.

The agents on this board frequently comment that the primo properties you might have the most interest in aren’t among the ones that are listed in a bottomed out market. I dunno that I exactly agree with that but I don’t entirely disagree either.

I cannot emphasize enough how difficult the credit terms are in a down market. Don’t expect the bargain basement interest rates.

[Bugs]

The bottom of the market looks like the bottom of the market. Credit terms are tough, underwriting is tough, appraisals are tough and nobody offers the benefit of the doubt. The properties being sold aren’t usually in the best shape and the transactions sometimes get complicated, depending on what’s happening on the seller’s side.

The agents on this board frequently comment that the primo properties you might have the most interest in aren’t among the ones that are listed in a bottomed out market. I dunno that I exactly agree with that but I don’t entirely disagree either.

I cannot emphasize enough how difficult the credit terms are in a down market. Don’t expect the bargain basement interest rates.

[Bugs]

The bottom of the market looks like the bottom of the market. Credit terms are tough, underwriting is tough, appraisals are tough and nobody offers the benefit of the doubt. The properties being sold aren’t usually in the best shape and the transactions sometimes get complicated, depending on what’s happening on the seller’s side.

The agents on this board frequently comment that the primo properties you might have the most interest in aren’t among the ones that are listed in a bottomed out market. I dunno that I exactly agree with that but I don’t entirely disagree either.

I cannot emphasize enough how difficult the credit terms are in a down market. Don’t expect the bargain basement interest rates.

[asragov]

At the bottom, the general attitude will be “real estate is a terrible investment. It will never bounce back.”

When the prevailing sentiment is very negative (and not “it will be over soon”), then it will be time to buy.

Sentiment is still very positive, or at least not all that negative. This website and others like it are still in the minority.

[asragov]

At the bottom, the general attitude will be “real estate is a terrible investment. It will never bounce back.”

When the prevailing sentiment is very negative (and not “it will be over soon”), then it will be time to buy.

Sentiment is still very positive, or at least not all that negative. This website and others like it are still in the minority.

[asragov]

At the bottom, the general attitude will be “real estate is a terrible investment. It will never bounce back.”

When the prevailing sentiment is very negative (and not “it will be over soon”), then it will be time to buy.

Sentiment is still very positive, or at least not all that negative. This website and others like it are still in the minority.

[asragov]

At the bottom, the general attitude will be “real estate is a terrible investment. It will never bounce back.”

When the prevailing sentiment is very negative (and not “it will be over soon”), then it will be time to buy.

Sentiment is still very positive, or at least not all that negative. This website and others like it are still in the minority.

[asragov]

At the bottom, the general attitude will be “real estate is a terrible investment. It will never bounce back.”

When the prevailing sentiment is very negative (and not “it will be over soon”), then it will be time to buy.

Sentiment is still very positive, or at least not all that negative. This website and others like it are still in the minority.

[kewp]

I’ve posted this before, but I feel it bears repeating…

When home prices start appreciating again, the bottom just passed.

I personally think that due to the magnitude of the bubble and the ensuing economic fallout it will be more severe then any previous downturn.

[Deserted]

The top ten ways to know that the bottom is here:

(Drum roll please)

10. No sellers are offering “free” plasma TV’s — just lower prices.

9. Buyers with bad credit are called renters.

8. RE professionals act professionally.

7. Time magazine’s headline “Housing will never recover”.

6. Your waitress and your barber no longer brag about how they made a fortune in real estate.

5. People buy houses to actually live in them.

4. US Attorney convicts Angelo Mozilo.

3. Democrats establish a commission to “cure” the housing problem. Republicans issue a press release stating that there may be a housing bubble. Libertarians are busy building bomb shelters.

2. No more bombastic ads for get rich quick real estate seminars.

And, the number one way to know that the bottom is here: all the Piggs have bought their dream houses!

[Deserted]

[quote=contrarian]The top ten ways to know that the bottom is here:

(Drum roll please)

10. No sellers are offering “free” plasma TV’s — just lower prices.

9. Buyers with bad credit are called renters.

8. RE professionals act professionally.

7. Time magazine’s headline “Housing will never recover”.

6. Your waitress and your barber no longer brag about how they made a fortune in real estate.

5. People buy houses to actually live in them.

4. US Attorney convicts Angelo Mozilo.

3. Democrats establish a commission to “cure” the housing problem. Republicans issue a press release stating that there may be a housing bubble. Libertarians are busy building bomb shelters.

2. No more bombastic ads for get rich quick real estate seminars.

And, the number one way to know that the bottom is here: all the Piggs have bought their dream houses!
[/quote]

We may be close!!

I’m still waiting for #4 and #1. (Forget about #8 — it will never happen. What was I thinking?)

[patientrenter]

[quote=contrarian][quote=contrarian]The top ten ways to know that the bottom is here:

(Drum roll please)

10. No sellers are offering “free” plasma TV’s — just lower prices.

9. Buyers with bad credit are called renters.

8. RE professionals act professionally.

7. Time magazine’s headline “Housing will never recover”.

6. Your waitress and your barber no longer brag about how they made a fortune in real estate.

5. People buy houses to actually live in them.

4. US Attorney convicts Angelo Mozilo.

3. Democrats establish a commission to “cure” the housing problem. Republicans issue a press release stating that there may be a housing bubble. Libertarians are busy building bomb shelters.

2. No more bombastic ads for get rich quick real estate seminars.

And, the number one way to know that the bottom is here: all the Piggs have bought their dream houses!
[/quote]

We may be close!!

I’m still waiting for #4 and #1. (Forget about #8 — it will never happen. What was I thinking?)[/quote]

Very enjoyable post, from the distant mists of history, contrarian. I see #3 is not happening either. Instead, pols from both parties have lined up behind the greater govt efforts to pour money into housing in a powerful scheme to keep prices high. Consider all the expanded GNMA, FHA, FNMA, FHLMC, FDIC etc programs, and then add the mortgage loan interest deduction and relief from capital gains taxes on house price gains, and the Fed’s bias to lower interest rates….

It actually isn’t necessary for a good economy to have ANY of these ridiculous supports for home prices. Germany (post-WW2) is a decent example. Whatever else you may think of Germany, it’s hardly an economic or political basket-case.

[patientrenter]

[quote=contrarian][quote=contrarian]The top ten ways to know that the bottom is here:

(Drum roll please)

10. No sellers are offering “free” plasma TV’s — just lower prices.

9. Buyers with bad credit are called renters.

8. RE professionals act professionally.

7. Time magazine’s headline “Housing will never recover”.

6. Your waitress and your barber no longer brag about how they made a fortune in real estate.

5. People buy houses to actually live in them.

4. US Attorney convicts Angelo Mozilo.

3. Democrats establish a commission to “cure” the housing problem. Republicans issue a press release stating that there may be a housing bubble. Libertarians are busy building bomb shelters.

2. No more bombastic ads for get rich quick real estate seminars.

And, the number one way to know that the bottom is here: all the Piggs have bought their dream houses!
[/quote]

We may be close!!

I’m still waiting for #4 and #1. (Forget about #8 — it will never happen. What was I thinking?)[/quote]

Very enjoyable post, from the distant mists of history, contrarian. I see #3 is not happening either. Instead, pols from both parties have lined up behind the greater govt efforts to pour money into housing in a powerful scheme to keep prices high. Consider all the expanded GNMA, FHA, FNMA, FHLMC, FDIC etc programs, and then add the mortgage loan interest deduction and relief from capital gains taxes on house price gains, and the Fed’s bias to lower interest rates….

It actually isn’t necessary for a good economy to have ANY of these ridiculous supports for home prices. Germany (post-WW2) is a decent example. Whatever else you may think of Germany, it’s hardly an economic or political basket-case.

[patientrenter]

[quote=contrarian][quote=contrarian]The top ten ways to know that the bottom is here:

(Drum roll please)

10. No sellers are offering “free” plasma TV’s — just lower prices.

9. Buyers with bad credit are called renters.

8. RE professionals act professionally.

7. Time magazine’s headline “Housing will never recover”.

6. Your waitress and your barber no longer brag about how they made a fortune in real estate.

5. People buy houses to actually live in them.

4. US Attorney convicts Angelo Mozilo.

3. Democrats establish a commission to “cure” the housing problem. Republicans issue a press release stating that there may be a housing bubble. Libertarians are busy building bomb shelters.

2. No more bombastic ads for get rich quick real estate seminars.

And, the number one way to know that the bottom is here: all the Piggs have bought their dream houses!
[/quote]

We may be close!!

I’m still waiting for #4 and #1. (Forget about #8 — it will never happen. What was I thinking?)[/quote]

Very enjoyable post, from the distant mists of history, contrarian. I see #3 is not happening either. Instead, pols from both parties have lined up behind the greater govt efforts to pour money into housing in a powerful scheme to keep prices high. Consider all the expanded GNMA, FHA, FNMA, FHLMC, FDIC etc programs, and then add the mortgage loan interest deduction and relief from capital gains taxes on house price gains, and the Fed’s bias to lower interest rates….

It actually isn’t necessary for a good economy to have ANY of these ridiculous supports for home prices. Germany (post-WW2) is a decent example. Whatever else you may think of Germany, it’s hardly an economic or political basket-case.

[patientrenter]

[quote=contrarian][quote=contrarian]The top ten ways to know that the bottom is here:

(Drum roll please)

10. No sellers are offering “free” plasma TV’s — just lower prices.

9. Buyers with bad credit are called renters.

8. RE professionals act professionally.

7. Time magazine’s headline “Housing will never recover”.

6. Your waitress and your barber no longer brag about how they made a fortune in real estate.

5. People buy houses to actually live in them.

4. US Attorney convicts Angelo Mozilo.

3. Democrats establish a commission to “cure” the housing problem. Republicans issue a press release stating that there may be a housing bubble. Libertarians are busy building bomb shelters.

2. No more bombastic ads for get rich quick real estate seminars.

And, the number one way to know that the bottom is here: all the Piggs have bought their dream houses!
[/quote]

We may be close!!

I’m still waiting for #4 and #1. (Forget about #8 — it will never happen. What was I thinking?)[/quote]

Very enjoyable post, from the distant mists of history, contrarian. I see #3 is not happening either. Instead, pols from both parties have lined up behind the greater govt efforts to pour money into housing in a powerful scheme to keep prices high. Consider all the expanded GNMA, FHA, FNMA, FHLMC, FDIC etc programs, and then add the mortgage loan interest deduction and relief from capital gains taxes on house price gains, and the Fed’s bias to lower interest rates….

It actually isn’t necessary for a good economy to have ANY of these ridiculous supports for home prices. Germany (post-WW2) is a decent example. Whatever else you may think of Germany, it’s hardly an economic or political basket-case.

[patientrenter]

[quote=contrarian][quote=contrarian]The top ten ways to know that the bottom is here:

(Drum roll please)

10. No sellers are offering “free” plasma TV’s — just lower prices.

9. Buyers with bad credit are called renters.

8. RE professionals act professionally.

7. Time magazine’s headline “Housing will never recover”.

6. Your waitress and your barber no longer brag about how they made a fortune in real estate.

5. People buy houses to actually live in them.

4. US Attorney convicts Angelo Mozilo.

3. Democrats establish a commission to “cure” the housing problem. Republicans issue a press release stating that there may be a housing bubble. Libertarians are busy building bomb shelters.

2. No more bombastic ads for get rich quick real estate seminars.

And, the number one way to know that the bottom is here: all the Piggs have bought their dream houses!
[/quote]

We may be close!!

I’m still waiting for #4 and #1. (Forget about #8 — it will never happen. What was I thinking?)[/quote]

Very enjoyable post, from the distant mists of history, contrarian. I see #3 is not happening either. Instead, pols from both parties have lined up behind the greater govt efforts to pour money into housing in a powerful scheme to keep prices high. Consider all the expanded GNMA, FHA, FNMA, FHLMC, FDIC etc programs, and then add the mortgage loan interest deduction and relief from capital gains taxes on house price gains, and the Fed’s bias to lower interest rates….

It actually isn’t necessary for a good economy to have ANY of these ridiculous supports for home prices. Germany (post-WW2) is a decent example. Whatever else you may think of Germany, it’s hardly an economic or political basket-case.

[CA renter]

Great list.

Looks like your #1 is surely happening. I wonder what percentage of Piggs have bought already. From the posts, it looks pretty high.

Still, too much of #s 10, 9, 6, and (not) 5 going on to believe it’s really a bottom, but that’s just me.

[patientrenter]

[quote=CA renter]Great list.

Looks like your #1 is surely happening. I wonder what percentage of Piggs have bought already. From the posts, it looks pretty high.

Still, too much of #s 10, 9, 6, and (not) 5 going on to believe it’s really a bottom, but that’s just me.[/quote]

I should add that prices for the best deals (in decent areas) are still double or more the prices in 1996. Even after adjusting for inflation, that’s still a lot of proven room for more downward movement.

[5yearwaiter]

[quote=patientrenter][quote=CA renter]Great list.

Looks like your #1 is surely happening. I wonder what percentage of Piggs have bought already. From the posts, it looks pretty high.

Still, too much of #s 10, 9, 6, and (not) 5 going on to believe it’s really a bottom, but that’s just me.[/quote]

I should add that prices for the best deals (in decent areas) are still double or more the prices in 1996. Even after adjusting for inflation, that’s still a lot of proven room for more downward movement.[/quote]

Well there is more yet to comedown these prices – if you see those houses still trying to hold at Carmel Valley (but sure no buyers at all) and other areas in Delsur, 4S Ranch etc should accept the real price what they have started in 2002 when the construction started. Here is the trick and patient what you or everyone needed. Honestly it is simply “we” are making these prices jump or escalate. Just stand where you can afford and stay away from buying of all those cheap tricks or rich attractions a while. When many may not afford where those prices should go – it has to come to your level. Just a trick with patience you need to observe, also there is nothing hype in Housing anymore- no more gurantee you can getback that money in the future – so think a bit and invest wisely after all onetime a bigy buy this housing is which can keep us total failure forever if we do mistake.

[5yearwaiter]

[quote=patientrenter][quote=CA renter]Great list.

Looks like your #1 is surely happening. I wonder what percentage of Piggs have bought already. From the posts, it looks pretty high.

Still, too much of #s 10, 9, 6, and (not) 5 going on to believe it’s really a bottom, but that’s just me.[/quote]

I should add that prices for the best deals (in decent areas) are still double or more the prices in 1996. Even after adjusting for inflation, that’s still a lot of proven room for more downward movement.[/quote]

Well there is more yet to comedown these prices – if you see those houses still trying to hold at Carmel Valley (but sure no buyers at all) and other areas in Delsur, 4S Ranch etc should accept the real price what they have started in 2002 when the construction started. Here is the trick and patient what you or everyone needed. Honestly it is simply “we” are making these prices jump or escalate. Just stand where you can afford and stay away from buying of all those cheap tricks or rich attractions a while. When many may not afford where those prices should go – it has to come to your level. Just a trick with patience you need to observe, also there is nothing hype in Housing anymore- no more gurantee you can getback that money in the future – so think a bit and invest wisely after all onetime a bigy buy this housing is which can keep us total failure forever if we do mistake.

[5yearwaiter]

[quote=patientrenter][quote=CA renter]Great list.

Looks like your #1 is surely happening. I wonder what percentage of Piggs have bought already. From the posts, it looks pretty high.

Still, too much of #s 10, 9, 6, and (not) 5 going on to believe it’s really a bottom, but that’s just me.[/quote]

I should add that prices for the best deals (in decent areas) are still double or more the prices in 1996. Even after adjusting for inflation, that’s still a lot of proven room for more downward movement.[/quote]

Well there is more yet to comedown these prices – if you see those houses still trying to hold at Carmel Valley (but sure no buyers at all) and other areas in Delsur, 4S Ranch etc should accept the real price what they have started in 2002 when the construction started. Here is the trick and patient what you or everyone needed. Honestly it is simply “we” are making these prices jump or escalate. Just stand where you can afford and stay away from buying of all those cheap tricks or rich attractions a while. When many may not afford where those prices should go – it has to come to your level. Just a trick with patience you need to observe, also there is nothing hype in Housing anymore- no more gurantee you can getback that money in the future – so think a bit and invest wisely after all onetime a bigy buy this housing is which can keep us total failure forever if we do mistake.

[5yearwaiter]

[quote=patientrenter][quote=CA renter]Great list.

Looks like your #1 is surely happening. I wonder what percentage of Piggs have bought already. From the posts, it looks pretty high.

Still, too much of #s 10, 9, 6, and (not) 5 going on to believe it’s really a bottom, but that’s just me.[/quote]

I should add that prices for the best deals (in decent areas) are still double or more the prices in 1996. Even after adjusting for inflation, that’s still a lot of proven room for more downward movement.[/quote]

Well there is more yet to comedown these prices – if you see those houses still trying to hold at Carmel Valley (but sure no buyers at all) and other areas in Delsur, 4S Ranch etc should accept the real price what they have started in 2002 when the construction started. Here is the trick and patient what you or everyone needed. Honestly it is simply “we” are making these prices jump or escalate. Just stand where you can afford and stay away from buying of all those cheap tricks or rich attractions a while. When many may not afford where those prices should go – it has to come to your level. Just a trick with patience you need to observe, also there is nothing hype in Housing anymore- no more gurantee you can getback that money in the future – so think a bit and invest wisely after all onetime a bigy buy this housing is which can keep us total failure forever if we do mistake.

[5yearwaiter]

[quote=patientrenter][quote=CA renter]Great list.

Looks like your #1 is surely happening. I wonder what percentage of Piggs have bought already. From the posts, it looks pretty high.

Still, too much of #s 10, 9, 6, and (not) 5 going on to believe it’s really a bottom, but that’s just me.[/quote]

I should add that prices for the best deals (in decent areas) are still double or more the prices in 1996. Even after adjusting for inflation, that’s still a lot of proven room for more downward movement.[/quote]

Well there is more yet to comedown these prices – if you see those houses still trying to hold at Carmel Valley (but sure no buyers at all) and other areas in Delsur, 4S Ranch etc should accept the real price what they have started in 2002 when the construction started. Here is the trick and patient what you or everyone needed. Honestly it is simply “we” are making these prices jump or escalate. Just stand where you can afford and stay away from buying of all those cheap tricks or rich attractions a while. When many may not afford where those prices should go – it has to come to your level. Just a trick with patience you need to observe, also there is nothing hype in Housing anymore- no more gurantee you can getback that money in the future – so think a bit and invest wisely after all onetime a bigy buy this housing is which can keep us total failure forever if we do mistake.

[patientrenter]

[quote=CA renter]Great list.

Looks like your #1 is surely happening. I wonder what percentage of Piggs have bought already. From the posts, it looks pretty high.

Still, too much of #s 10, 9, 6, and (not) 5 going on to believe it’s really a bottom, but that’s just me.[/quote]

I should add that prices for the best deals (in decent areas) are still double or more the prices in 1996. Even after adjusting for inflation, that’s still a lot of proven room for more downward movement.

[patientrenter]

[quote=CA renter]Great list.

Looks like your #1 is surely happening. I wonder what percentage of Piggs have bought already. From the posts, it looks pretty high.

Still, too much of #s 10, 9, 6, and (not) 5 going on to believe it’s really a bottom, but that’s just me.[/quote]

I should add that prices for the best deals (in decent areas) are still double or more the prices in 1996. Even after adjusting for inflation, that’s still a lot of proven room for more downward movement.

[patientrenter]

[quote=CA renter]Great list.

Looks like your #1 is surely happening. I wonder what percentage of Piggs have bought already. From the posts, it looks pretty high.

Still, too much of #s 10, 9, 6, and (not) 5 going on to believe it’s really a bottom, but that’s just me.[/quote]

I should add that prices for the best deals (in decent areas) are still double or more the prices in 1996. Even after adjusting for inflation, that’s still a lot of proven room for more downward movement.

[patientrenter]

[quote=CA renter]Great list.

Looks like your #1 is surely happening. I wonder what percentage of Piggs have bought already. From the posts, it looks pretty high.

Still, too much of #s 10, 9, 6, and (not) 5 going on to believe it’s really a bottom, but that’s just me.[/quote]

I should add that prices for the best deals (in decent areas) are still double or more the prices in 1996. Even after adjusting for inflation, that’s still a lot of proven room for more downward movement.

[jpinpb]

There’s still too many investors buying cheap places and fixing/flipping. Hard to believe, but I’m still seeing it, particularly the cash only places and places that are in need of fixing. Buy w/cash cheap, fix, sell higher but to someone qualified under FHA guidelines.

[NotCranky]

[quote=jpinpb]There’s still too many investors buying cheap places and fixing/flipping. Hard to believe, but I’m still seeing it, particularly the cash only places and places that are in need of fixing. Buy w/cash cheap, fix, sell higher but to someone qualified under FHA guidelines.[/quote]

This behavior is bottom like in some ways(according to criteria on this thread).
1. Not just anyone can borrow to buy that POS. Somebody willing to put up money who possibly knows what they are doing will get it.(Someone might know what they are doing but lender is not gonna bother with the POS on a low down payment loan option)
2. You have to work to make a profit.

BTW you can also look into FHA 203K for these.I have a referral to a mortgage broker who does them if you want it. I can’t really make a strong pitch for why to do it.The process is involved. It could increase options a bit.Someone might get the kitchen or deck or other repairs they want on a property they are otherwise crazy about. Could be good for someone who wants a fixer but doesn’t want to spend up all their reserves on repairs.

[NotCranky]

[quote=jpinpb]There’s still too many investors buying cheap places and fixing/flipping. Hard to believe, but I’m still seeing it, particularly the cash only places and places that are in need of fixing. Buy w/cash cheap, fix, sell higher but to someone qualified under FHA guidelines.[/quote]

This behavior is bottom like in some ways(according to criteria on this thread).
1. Not just anyone can borrow to buy that POS. Somebody willing to put up money who possibly knows what they are doing will get it.(Someone might know what they are doing but lender is not gonna bother with the POS on a low down payment loan option)
2. You have to work to make a profit.

BTW you can also look into FHA 203K for these.I have a referral to a mortgage broker who does them if you want it. I can’t really make a strong pitch for why to do it.The process is involved. It could increase options a bit.Someone might get the kitchen or deck or other repairs they want on a property they are otherwise crazy about. Could be good for someone who wants a fixer but doesn’t want to spend up all their reserves on repairs.

[NotCranky]

[quote=jpinpb]There’s still too many investors buying cheap places and fixing/flipping. Hard to believe, but I’m still seeing it, particularly the cash only places and places that are in need of fixing. Buy w/cash cheap, fix, sell higher but to someone qualified under FHA guidelines.[/quote]

This behavior is bottom like in some ways(according to criteria on this thread).
1. Not just anyone can borrow to buy that POS. Somebody willing to put up money who possibly knows what they are doing will get it.(Someone might know what they are doing but lender is not gonna bother with the POS on a low down payment loan option)
2. You have to work to make a profit.

BTW you can also look into FHA 203K for these.I have a referral to a mortgage broker who does them if you want it. I can’t really make a strong pitch for why to do it.The process is involved. It could increase options a bit.Someone might get the kitchen or deck or other repairs they want on a property they are otherwise crazy about. Could be good for someone who wants a fixer but doesn’t want to spend up all their reserves on repairs.

[NotCranky]

[quote=jpinpb]There’s still too many investors buying cheap places and fixing/flipping. Hard to believe, but I’m still seeing it, particularly the cash only places and places that are in need of fixing. Buy w/cash cheap, fix, sell higher but to someone qualified under FHA guidelines.[/quote]

This behavior is bottom like in some ways(according to criteria on this thread).
1. Not just anyone can borrow to buy that POS. Somebody willing to put up money who possibly knows what they are doing will get it.(Someone might know what they are doing but lender is not gonna bother with the POS on a low down payment loan option)
2. You have to work to make a profit.

BTW you can also look into FHA 203K for these.I have a referral to a mortgage broker who does them if you want it. I can’t really make a strong pitch for why to do it.The process is involved. It could increase options a bit.Someone might get the kitchen or deck or other repairs they want on a property they are otherwise crazy about. Could be good for someone who wants a fixer but doesn’t want to spend up all their reserves on repairs.

[NotCranky]

[quote=jpinpb]There’s still too many investors buying cheap places and fixing/flipping. Hard to believe, but I’m still seeing it, particularly the cash only places and places that are in need of fixing. Buy w/cash cheap, fix, sell higher but to someone qualified under FHA guidelines.[/quote]

This behavior is bottom like in some ways(according to criteria on this thread).
1. Not just anyone can borrow to buy that POS. Somebody willing to put up money who possibly knows what they are doing will get it.(Someone might know what they are doing but lender is not gonna bother with the POS on a low down payment loan option)
2. You have to work to make a profit.

BTW you can also look into FHA 203K for these.I have a referral to a mortgage broker who does them if you want it. I can’t really make a strong pitch for why to do it.The process is involved. It could increase options a bit.Someone might get the kitchen or deck or other repairs they want on a property they are otherwise crazy about. Could be good for someone who wants a fixer but doesn’t want to spend up all their reserves on repairs.

[CA renter]

[quote=jpinpb]There’s still too many investors buying cheap places and fixing/flipping. Hard to believe, but I’m still seeing it, particularly the cash only places and places that are in need of fixing. Buy w/cash cheap, fix, sell higher but to someone qualified under FHA guidelines.[/quote]

Couldn’t agree more, jp. We are a long way from the bottom, IMHO.

One thing I was thinking about just last night, though…maybe this is part of a larger plan.

1. Hold inventory off the market, using taxpayer money to cover expenses and losses during this period, but not taking the kind of losses that would occur if all the inventory were allowed to go to market. This keeps prices elevated on a temporary basis.

2. Hype the market through the MSM and other media. Have some big names call a bottom. Hope this gets more people all worked up about the market bottoming, and they are told it will rocket back up in no time.

3. Shove taxpayer money into the market via the $8K federal gift and the $10K state gift for new homes. Lower rates to ridiculously low levels so that fixed income investors are once again forced to deploy their money in much riskier ways. It also makes the ROI on housing go up with all the gifts, low rates, and somewhat lower prices.

4. …which brings “investors” into the market with **cash** (that would otherwise be in fixed income investments???) or government loans. These “investors” plan to either flip these properties or rent them out for a while, “until the market goes back up.”

5. Continue with all the subsidies until the banks have repaired their balance sheets (as well as they can) via dumping on all these “investors”, then reign in all the subsidies and crank up rates because inflation will have taken hold in a big way.

6. At this point, all the govt lenders (Fannie, Freddie and FHA guaranteed loans), “cash investors” and hard-money lenders will be on the hook instead of the banking oligopoly, and the govt can let the market fall to its intrinsic value.

We must always remember that they are not here to protect taxpaying citizens, or even the govt (currency and/or public debt). They want to protect certain banking interests.

Problem solved. 🙂

[patientrenter]

CA Renter: your description is very close…

[patientrenter]

CA Renter: your description is very close…

[patientrenter]

CA Renter: your description is very close…

[patientrenter]

CA Renter: your description is very close…

[patientrenter]

CA Renter: your description is very close…

[jpinpb]

CAR – It all makes sense in a way, if there is a great devised plan. And by the time everything comes around, mixing inflation in the picture, a median home will be over 500k again. GAAA!!

[peterb]

I remember very well in 1995. Most people had given up on thinking RE would rise in price. It’d been going down for 5 years! That about wrung the hope out of everyone.

[peterb]

I remember very well in 1995. Most people had given up on thinking RE would rise in price. It’d been going down for 5 years! That about wrung the hope out of everyone.

[peterb]

I remember very well in 1995. Most people had given up on thinking RE would rise in price. It’d been going down for 5 years! That about wrung the hope out of everyone.

[peterb]

I remember very well in 1995. Most people had given up on thinking RE would rise in price. It’d been going down for 5 years! That about wrung the hope out of everyone.

[peterb]

I remember very well in 1995. Most people had given up on thinking RE would rise in price. It’d been going down for 5 years! That about wrung the hope out of everyone.

[patientrenter]

[quote=jpinpb]CAR – It all makes sense in a way, if there is a great devised plan. And by the time everything comes around, mixing inflation in the picture, a median home will be over 500k again. GAAA!![/quote]

Oh, that’s good, jpnpb! That was the missing piece. In 5-10 years time, we’ll see if this all happened as laid out here.

[5yearwaiter]

[quote=patientrenter][quote=jpinpb]CAR – It all makes sense in a way, if there is a great devised plan. And by the time everything comes around, mixing inflation in the picture, a median home will be over 500k again. GAAA!![/quote]

Oh, that’s good, jpnpb! That was the missing piece. In 5-10 years time, we’ll see if this all happened as laid out here.
[/quote]

This situation is going to be bit different than 1995 scenario. That time everything is in control except the one big economy downturn as a routine, but now we are mess-up in all levels. There is a lot to do for baby boomers, lot to do our increased or keep increasing price(s), shift of gloabal economy(slowly started no more US based trade from China further n further), worries about Social Security funds and on the top we never thought of how the past 8 years consumed trillons to cover. I strongly believe we crash our system a bit vulenerable and there wouldn’t be any steep recovery nor any to claim we are back, where as we still remain in a lot troubles though a few fixed, few other issues would always be waiting to pull the rest always down.

[NotCranky]

I would love to see Bugs come back and update us on his current thoughts and prognostigations.

It seems like there is no way piggs are going to agree when there is a bottom…or even that it is a reasonable time to buy, including after many piggs have. At the bottom we will see role reversals of those in this clip
That is , the bears are going to look as stupid as these two extreme Bulls did.

[denverite]

Susan Barretta wrote this. It is chronology of the 1990’s bubble. Although no two crashes are ever the same, it’s an interesting baseline/comparison. Have fun.

1990
Realtors spoke euphemistically of the “wonderful buyer’s market,” encouraging anyone who didn’t need to sell his home to “pull off.” Relationships between realtors and home sellers were getting tense. Sellers accused agents of trying to cheat them by pressuring them to lower prices. One realtor (who asked not to be named) said:
“The bottom line as far as I’m concerned is always the price. The main problem I feel is people don’t want to concede prices have gone down.”
One story about the South Bay area of Los Angeles County quoted a realtor who defiantly declared:
“If [buyers] are waiting for the bottom to fall out, they are waiting in the wrong neighborhood. There just has never been any evidence of that in the South Bay.”
And of course, a number of experts were quoted saying the market was bottoming. One realtor likened the market to a junior high school sock hop, with buyers standing against one wall and sellers standing against the other wall, and everybody was just waiting for a few brave couples to venture out on the dance floor.

1991
As housing prices flattened and weakened, homeowners were scared that any change in the neighborhood was going to drag down the values of their homes. In turn they rejected attempts by their city councils to build smaller, more affordable housing units in their areas, even though to financially qualify for the new units a buyer would have had to earn an income comparable to the average income of existing homeowners of higher-priced homes in the area.
At the low end, dreams were destroyed of obtaining a home through sweat equity. And finally, the downturn started impacting the high-end market, which had been considered rather immune to the slump. Homes in places like Bel-Air sold for 50% less than 18 months earlier. One wealthy homeowner lamented, “The real estate bubble has certainly burst.”
Later that year, realtors cited the victory in the Persian Gulf War as a reason for buyers to return to the market; realtors thus hoped for a resultant rebound. For a brief time, buyers did indeed flock back into the market, and there were cases of multiple offers on a few desirable properties.
According to realtors, the general up-tick in sale volume that year was due to sellers listing their homes at more realistic prices instead of starting too high and having to come down. Expectations of rapid appreciation had now disappeared. Experts at UC Berkeley scolded Wall Street for bad-mouthing the Golden State and once again expressed optimism that the housing market, and the state economy overall, would soon recover.
In the meantime, builders were not remaining entirely idle. They auctioned off completed new construction in frenzied bidding wars fueled by agitated buyers. Knowing that first-time entry-level buyers were shut out of the market, major builders focused more on creating smaller units to save on materials and labor, rather than build for the mid-level or high-end markets.

1992
Uh oh. The papers reported that “location, location, location” no longer sold a house. Cutting an asking price now became a “way of life” for many frustrated home sellers.
After witnessing the Los Angeles riots, some panicky buyers cancelled their escrows, and the cancellations were “spread all over” the region, not just in the immediate vicinity of the riots.
Other stories in the papers that year spoke glumly of hardships – of one couple’s American Dream house literally sinking into an oil sump in El Segundo, and of three-year-old Palos Verdes townhouses that were cracking and crumbling away due to poor construction. News writers moaned that neither lower interest rates, nor more affordable housing, were shaking the housing market out of its blues. Palos Verdes owners who were forced to sell were “getting killed.”
One expert explained that when sellers retain high expectations, property doesn’t move. But waiting “only masks the depths of the downside. Then distressed sales force the issue.”
U-Haul reported a run on its trucks as families fled to Denver, Las Vegas, Seattle, anywhere but Los Angeles.
Realtor Fred Sands wrote another letter to his clients, telling them: either forget about selling your property for the next three years, or reduce the price and get it sold. He defended the letter as a “badly needed dose of reality.”

1993
Just five years earlier, California had been described as “the future of America.” Now the state was redefined in terms of its housing slump — “a window into the soul of California.”
Foreclosures were commonplace. Foreclosing owners who could no longer afford therapists found some psychological relief by confessing foreclosure to their friends, who often responded with their own foreclosure woes or came out of the closet as renters. Lenders who previously refused to negotiate with sellers and let them sell short, forcing sellers to foreclose, were eager to unload all the foreclosures on their books.
The real estate market, once a “blossoming bride” of the 80’s, was now a “bloated hag” of the 90’s. The slump turned Angelenos into “budget-conscious tightwads fearful of what lies ahead.” The psychologists of better-heeled patients reported “real estate anxiety,” and “severe, unrelenting stress.” Homeowners were “shell-shocked,” and the “revision in expectations” had been “tremendous.”
One unsuccessful San Pedro home seller said, “This city is never bouncing back. Never, never, never.”

1993 (continued)
The war between realtors and their sellers was taking its toll. One realtor reported that one of her clients “actually said some pretty awful things to me, worse than I think I’ve ever heard. But my job was to push the facts.”
Other owners were caught chasing the market down. At open houses, competing home sellers in the neighborhood would drop by to “compare notes.” At one open house, a seller caught his neighbor rudely making use of his rowing machine. Offers to buy were “insulting.” Adding to the pressure, home sellers faced stiff competition from foreclosures, which one agent said accounted for some 65% of her sales.
Bottom feeders who had attended real estate seminars were making lowball offers. Owners described these lowballers as “predators.” One group of bottom-feeders who were regulars at courthouse auctions in Los Angeles County became known as the 40 Thieves.
Other buyers were described as “picky” and “looking under the hood” — but these buyers held no delusions about rapid appreciation.
CAR forecasts lost their sunshine. CAR notably couldn’t muster any enthusiasm about the prospects for the state housing market, stating that this year and next year would see declines. And condo sales, once the relatively affordable haven for desperate buyers, were looking grim.
One foreclosing owner cried, “It’s a sickness, and we are suffering.”

1994
Agents began to describe their local markets as “well picked over”, and bottoming out, with many mortgages upside down.
One realtor described the horrendous number of short sale cases as “tales from the crypt.” Banks were ever more willing to let owners forced by circumstances to get out of their properties to undergo a short sale.
Other stories described how some upper-scale neighborhoods were being renewed because some young families could now afford to live there and acquire their American Dream, if at the expense of many sellers. In a few cases buyers were trading up, even though they were selling their existing homes at a loss, because they figured that they would make up the loss in their new home.
Owners still trying to sell their houses dealt with lots of rejections, the “little insults” that had festered into “one big hurt”. A house that wouldn’t sell was now a “ball and chain.”
First-time homeowners from the late 80’s were “beat up emotionally,” having saved for years to buy that first house only to watch the equity vanish. Those forced to sell and leave the area characteristically left with maxed-out credit cards, hefty tax bills, and feelings of disillusionment. But some owners who got out from the shackles of the home they couldn’t sell reported blessed relief, even if faced with an increased tax bill for forgiven debt.
In the story that perhaps personified the agony of the downturn more than any other, some owners remained angry at realtors who assured sellers that if they only dropped their prices, their homes would sell more quickly. It didn’t necessarily happen that way. One anguished seller described living with a house that wouldn’t sell like “…living with a terminal cancer patient. There’s been lot of pain. We want the end to come. But when it does, we know it’s going to hurt even more.” His For Sale sign has been “perched like a vulture” for more than two years. He had put up with potential buyers that had brought video cameras and white gloves and their nosy questions and had always found something to criticize. That same seller said he was “bitter”, and described his five years in California as “sheer hell…the place was supposed to be our castle. But the market destroyed it, and it destroyed our dream. It’s like the Great Depression. We feel like we’ve lost everything. Now we’ve got to start over.”
1996
Mortgage delinquencies hit an eight year high; some market observers warned that the market “still has a long way to go.” By this time, close to 40% of the homes on the market in the San Fernando Valley were foreclosures.
Signaling a true turnaround, later reports described “buyers emerging in droves” even as prices were still falling. Yet realtors warned potential sellers that “this is not a time to overprice your property,” and forecasters were wary of a sustained recovery, noting that they had seen a few false dawns.
***
By the beginning of 1997, the market had pretty much bottomed and was on its way to a recovery. But just as prices continued to head up at the beginning of the downturn while sales volume declined, the reverse occurred at the end – sales volume picked up, while prices continued to decline a bit longer. Foreclosures continued to haunt the housing market into 1997, and even a little beyond.
But what on earth happened between 1988 and 1997? How did the mental outlook of the market participants change?
The fearful, pressured, hapless 1988 home buyer was swept along in a fast-running current and had no choice but to compete with other buyers and bid on desirable properties. He was often left out in the cold, and he was terrified of being priced out of the market. But the 1994 buyer was characterized as nosy and intruding and predatory and very, very picky.
The 1988 home seller was euphoric, ecstatic, and gleeful. The 1994 home seller was filled with desperation and despair, comparing the slow torture of owning a home that would not sell to being attached to a ball and chain, or living with a terminally ill cancer patient. The long-suffering mid-90’s home seller even went so far as to perceive long-standing “For Sale” signs as vultures and bottom-fishers as predators.
In 1988 industry observers berated Wall Street for bad-mouthing California and confidently predicted a continued boom. A few years into the downturn they declared too quickly that the market had bottomed. But by 1996 they had become very guarded in their outlook, conceding that they had been fooled by a few false starts, and warning their clients that the market still had a way to go.
The psychology of each market participant underwent a dramatic reversal. And if you want to invest in real estate somewhere near the market lows and sell somewhere near the market tops, these extremes in mood are what we need to look for in the housing markets in our future.
Hopefully, our brief journey through the archives of the Los Angeles Times has been an insightful one, a look back to a time that might help us as we navigate our way through our future.

[jpinpb]

That was not a pleasant trip down memory lane, having been a survivor of the ’90’s real estate market, it was nevertheless an ugly time and not fun to re-visit.

[urbanrealtor]

[quote=jpinpb]That was not a pleasant trip down memory lane, having been a survivor of the ’90’s real estate market, it was nevertheless an ugly time and not fun to re-visit.[/quote]

Yeah and I couldn’t vote for part of it.
Also, the title of this thread sounds like porn title.

[jpinpb]

[quote=urbanrealtor]Also, the title of this thread sounds like porn title.[/quote]

LOL. I just snorted some water. Must remember to not attempt to drink anything while reading.

UR – funny.

[jpinpb]

[quote=urbanrealtor]Also, the title of this thread sounds like porn title.[/quote]

LOL. I just snorted some water. Must remember to not attempt to drink anything while reading.

UR – funny.

[jpinpb]

[quote=urbanrealtor]Also, the title of this thread sounds like porn title.[/quote]

LOL. I just snorted some water. Must remember to not attempt to drink anything while reading.

UR – funny.

[jpinpb]

[quote=urbanrealtor]Also, the title of this thread sounds like porn title.[/quote]

LOL. I just snorted some water. Must remember to not attempt to drink anything while reading.

UR – funny.

[jpinpb]

[quote=urbanrealtor]Also, the title of this thread sounds like porn title.[/quote]

LOL. I just snorted some water. Must remember to not attempt to drink anything while reading.

UR – funny.

[urbanrealtor]

[quote=jpinpb]That was not a pleasant trip down memory lane, having been a survivor of the ’90’s real estate market, it was nevertheless an ugly time and not fun to re-visit.[/quote]

Yeah and I couldn’t vote for part of it.
Also, the title of this thread sounds like porn title.

[urbanrealtor]

[quote=jpinpb]That was not a pleasant trip down memory lane, having been a survivor of the ’90’s real estate market, it was nevertheless an ugly time and not fun to re-visit.[/quote]

Yeah and I couldn’t vote for part of it.
Also, the title of this thread sounds like porn title.

[urbanrealtor]

[quote=jpinpb]That was not a pleasant trip down memory lane, having been a survivor of the ’90’s real estate market, it was nevertheless an ugly time and not fun to re-visit.[/quote]

Yeah and I couldn’t vote for part of it.
Also, the title of this thread sounds like porn title.

[urbanrealtor]

[quote=jpinpb]That was not a pleasant trip down memory lane, having been a survivor of the ’90’s real estate market, it was nevertheless an ugly time and not fun to re-visit.[/quote]

Yeah and I couldn’t vote for part of it.
Also, the title of this thread sounds like porn title.

[jpinpb]

That was not a pleasant trip down memory lane, having been a survivor of the ’90’s real estate market, it was nevertheless an ugly time and not fun to re-visit.

[jpinpb]

That was not a pleasant trip down memory lane, having been a survivor of the ’90’s real estate market, it was nevertheless an ugly time and not fun to re-visit.

[jpinpb]

That was not a pleasant trip down memory lane, having been a survivor of the ’90’s real estate market, it was nevertheless an ugly time and not fun to re-visit.

[jpinpb]

That was not a pleasant trip down memory lane, having been a survivor of the ’90’s real estate market, it was nevertheless an ugly time and not fun to re-visit.

[denverite]

Susan Barretta wrote this. It is chronology of the 1990’s bubble. Although no two crashes are ever the same, it’s an interesting baseline/comparison. Have fun.

1990
Realtors spoke euphemistically of the “wonderful buyer’s market,” encouraging anyone who didn’t need to sell his home to “pull off.” Relationships between realtors and home sellers were getting tense. Sellers accused agents of trying to cheat them by pressuring them to lower prices. One realtor (who asked not to be named) said:
“The bottom line as far as I’m concerned is always the price. The main problem I feel is people don’t want to concede prices have gone down.”
One story about the South Bay area of Los Angeles County quoted a realtor who defiantly declared:
“If [buyers] are waiting for the bottom to fall out, they are waiting in the wrong neighborhood. There just has never been any evidence of that in the South Bay.”
And of course, a number of experts were quoted saying the market was bottoming. One realtor likened the market to a junior high school sock hop, with buyers standing against one wall and sellers standing against the other wall, and everybody was just waiting for a few brave couples to venture out on the dance floor.

1991
As housing prices flattened and weakened, homeowners were scared that any change in the neighborhood was going to drag down the values of their homes. In turn they rejected attempts by their city councils to build smaller, more affordable housing units in their areas, even though to financially qualify for the new units a buyer would have had to earn an income comparable to the average income of existing homeowners of higher-priced homes in the area.
At the low end, dreams were destroyed of obtaining a home through sweat equity. And finally, the downturn started impacting the high-end market, which had been considered rather immune to the slump. Homes in places like Bel-Air sold for 50% less than 18 months earlier. One wealthy homeowner lamented, “The real estate bubble has certainly burst.”
Later that year, realtors cited the victory in the Persian Gulf War as a reason for buyers to return to the market; realtors thus hoped for a resultant rebound. For a brief time, buyers did indeed flock back into the market, and there were cases of multiple offers on a few desirable properties.
According to realtors, the general up-tick in sale volume that year was due to sellers listing their homes at more realistic prices instead of starting too high and having to come down. Expectations of rapid appreciation had now disappeared. Experts at UC Berkeley scolded Wall Street for bad-mouthing the Golden State and once again expressed optimism that the housing market, and the state economy overall, would soon recover.
In the meantime, builders were not remaining entirely idle. They auctioned off completed new construction in frenzied bidding wars fueled by agitated buyers. Knowing that first-time entry-level buyers were shut out of the market, major builders focused more on creating smaller units to save on materials and labor, rather than build for the mid-level or high-end markets.

1992
Uh oh. The papers reported that “location, location, location” no longer sold a house. Cutting an asking price now became a “way of life” for many frustrated home sellers.
After witnessing the Los Angeles riots, some panicky buyers cancelled their escrows, and the cancellations were “spread all over” the region, not just in the immediate vicinity of the riots.
Other stories in the papers that year spoke glumly of hardships – of one couple’s American Dream house literally sinking into an oil sump in El Segundo, and of three-year-old Palos Verdes townhouses that were cracking and crumbling away due to poor construction. News writers moaned that neither lower interest rates, nor more affordable housing, were shaking the housing market out of its blues. Palos Verdes owners who were forced to sell were “getting killed.”
One expert explained that when sellers retain high expectations, property doesn’t move. But waiting “only masks the depths of the downside. Then distressed sales force the issue.”
U-Haul reported a run on its trucks as families fled to Denver, Las Vegas, Seattle, anywhere but Los Angeles.
Realtor Fred Sands wrote another letter to his clients, telling them: either forget about selling your property for the next three years, or reduce the price and get it sold. He defended the letter as a “badly needed dose of reality.”

1993
Just five years earlier, California had been described as “the future of America.” Now the state was redefined in terms of its housing slump — “a window into the soul of California.”
Foreclosures were commonplace. Foreclosing owners who could no longer afford therapists found some psychological relief by confessing foreclosure to their friends, who often responded with their own foreclosure woes or came out of the closet as renters. Lenders who previously refused to negotiate with sellers and let them sell short, forcing sellers to foreclose, were eager to unload all the foreclosures on their books.
The real estate market, once a “blossoming bride” of the 80’s, was now a “bloated hag” of the 90’s. The slump turned Angelenos into “budget-conscious tightwads fearful of what lies ahead.” The psychologists of better-heeled patients reported “real estate anxiety,” and “severe, unrelenting stress.” Homeowners were “shell-shocked,” and the “revision in expectations” had been “tremendous.”
One unsuccessful San Pedro home seller said, “This city is never bouncing back. Never, never, never.”

1993 (continued)
The war between realtors and their sellers was taking its toll. One realtor reported that one of her clients “actually said some pretty awful things to me, worse than I think I’ve ever heard. But my job was to push the facts.”
Other owners were caught chasing the market down. At open houses, competing home sellers in the neighborhood would drop by to “compare notes.” At one open house, a seller caught his neighbor rudely making use of his rowing machine. Offers to buy were “insulting.” Adding to the pressure, home sellers faced stiff competition from foreclosures, which one agent said accounted for some 65% of her sales.
Bottom feeders who had attended real estate seminars were making lowball offers. Owners described these lowballers as “predators.” One group of bottom-feeders who were regulars at courthouse auctions in Los Angeles County became known as the 40 Thieves.
Other buyers were described as “picky” and “looking under the hood” — but these buyers held no delusions about rapid appreciation.
CAR forecasts lost their sunshine. CAR notably couldn’t muster any enthusiasm about the prospects for the state housing market, stating that this year and next year would see declines. And condo sales, once the relatively affordable haven for desperate buyers, were looking grim.
One foreclosing owner cried, “It’s a sickness, and we are suffering.”

1994
Agents began to describe their local markets as “well picked over”, and bottoming out, with many mortgages upside down.
One realtor described the horrendous number of short sale cases as “tales from the crypt.” Banks were ever more willing to let owners forced by circumstances to get out of their properties to undergo a short sale.
Other stories described how some upper-scale neighborhoods were being renewed because some young families could now afford to live there and acquire their American Dream, if at the expense of many sellers. In a few cases buyers were trading up, even though they were selling their existing homes at a loss, because they figured that they would make up the loss in their new home.
Owners still trying to sell their houses dealt with lots of rejections, the “little insults” that had festered into “one big hurt”. A house that wouldn’t sell was now a “ball and chain.”
First-time homeowners from the late 80’s were “beat up emotionally,” having saved for years to buy that first house only to watch the equity vanish. Those forced to sell and leave the area characteristically left with maxed-out credit cards, hefty tax bills, and feelings of disillusionment. But some owners who got out from the shackles of the home they couldn’t sell reported blessed relief, even if faced with an increased tax bill for forgiven debt.
In the story that perhaps personified the agony of the downturn more than any other, some owners remained angry at realtors who assured sellers that if they only dropped their prices, their homes would sell more quickly. It didn’t necessarily happen that way. One anguished seller described living with a house that wouldn’t sell like “…living with a terminal cancer patient. There’s been lot of pain. We want the end to come. But when it does, we know it’s going to hurt even more.” His For Sale sign has been “perched like a vulture” for more than two years. He had put up with potential buyers that had brought video cameras and white gloves and their nosy questions and had always found something to criticize. That same seller said he was “bitter”, and described his five years in California as “sheer hell…the place was supposed to be our castle. But the market destroyed it, and it destroyed our dream. It’s like the Great Depression. We feel like we’ve lost everything. Now we’ve got to start over.”
1996
Mortgage delinquencies hit an eight year high; some market observers warned that the market “still has a long way to go.” By this time, close to 40% of the homes on the market in the San Fernando Valley were foreclosures.
Signaling a true turnaround, later reports described “buyers emerging in droves” even as prices were still falling. Yet realtors warned potential sellers that “this is not a time to overprice your property,” and forecasters were wary of a sustained recovery, noting that they had seen a few false dawns.
***
By the beginning of 1997, the market had pretty much bottomed and was on its way to a recovery. But just as prices continued to head up at the beginning of the downturn while sales volume declined, the reverse occurred at the end – sales volume picked up, while prices continued to decline a bit longer. Foreclosures continued to haunt the housing market into 1997, and even a little beyond.
But what on earth happened between 1988 and 1997? How did the mental outlook of the market participants change?
The fearful, pressured, hapless 1988 home buyer was swept along in a fast-running current and had no choice but to compete with other buyers and bid on desirable properties. He was often left out in the cold, and he was terrified of being priced out of the market. But the 1994 buyer was characterized as nosy and intruding and predatory and very, very picky.
The 1988 home seller was euphoric, ecstatic, and gleeful. The 1994 home seller was filled with desperation and despair, comparing the slow torture of owning a home that would not sell to being attached to a ball and chain, or living with a terminally ill cancer patient. The long-suffering mid-90’s home seller even went so far as to perceive long-standing “For Sale” signs as vultures and bottom-fishers as predators.
In 1988 industry observers berated Wall Street for bad-mouthing California and confidently predicted a continued boom. A few years into the downturn they declared too quickly that the market had bottomed. But by 1996 they had become very guarded in their outlook, conceding that they had been fooled by a few false starts, and warning their clients that the market still had a way to go.
The psychology of each market participant underwent a dramatic reversal. And if you want to invest in real estate somewhere near the market lows and sell somewhere near the market tops, these extremes in mood are what we need to look for in the housing markets in our future.
Hopefully, our brief journey through the archives of the Los Angeles Times has been an insightful one, a look back to a time that might help us as we navigate our way through our future.

[denverite]

Susan Barretta wrote this. It is chronology of the 1990’s bubble. Although no two crashes are ever the same, it’s an interesting baseline/comparison. Have fun.

1990
Realtors spoke euphemistically of the “wonderful buyer’s market,” encouraging anyone who didn’t need to sell his home to “pull off.” Relationships between realtors and home sellers were getting tense. Sellers accused agents of trying to cheat them by pressuring them to lower prices. One realtor (who asked not to be named) said:
“The bottom line as far as I’m concerned is always the price. The main problem I feel is people don’t want to concede prices have gone down.”
One story about the South Bay area of Los Angeles County quoted a realtor who defiantly declared:
“If [buyers] are waiting for the bottom to fall out, they are waiting in the wrong neighborhood. There just has never been any evidence of that in the South Bay.”
And of course, a number of experts were quoted saying the market was bottoming. One realtor likened the market to a junior high school sock hop, with buyers standing against one wall and sellers standing against the other wall, and everybody was just waiting for a few brave couples to venture out on the dance floor.

1991
As housing prices flattened and weakened, homeowners were scared that any change in the neighborhood was going to drag down the values of their homes. In turn they rejected attempts by their city councils to build smaller, more affordable housing units in their areas, even though to financially qualify for the new units a buyer would have had to earn an income comparable to the average income of existing homeowners of higher-priced homes in the area.
At the low end, dreams were destroyed of obtaining a home through sweat equity. And finally, the downturn started impacting the high-end market, which had been considered rather immune to the slump. Homes in places like Bel-Air sold for 50% less than 18 months earlier. One wealthy homeowner lamented, “The real estate bubble has certainly burst.”
Later that year, realtors cited the victory in the Persian Gulf War as a reason for buyers to return to the market; realtors thus hoped for a resultant rebound. For a brief time, buyers did indeed flock back into the market, and there were cases of multiple offers on a few desirable properties.
According to realtors, the general up-tick in sale volume that year was due to sellers listing their homes at more realistic prices instead of starting too high and having to come down. Expectations of rapid appreciation had now disappeared. Experts at UC Berkeley scolded Wall Street for bad-mouthing the Golden State and once again expressed optimism that the housing market, and the state economy overall, would soon recover.
In the meantime, builders were not remaining entirely idle. They auctioned off completed new construction in frenzied bidding wars fueled by agitated buyers. Knowing that first-time entry-level buyers were shut out of the market, major builders focused more on creating smaller units to save on materials and labor, rather than build for the mid-level or high-end markets.

1992
Uh oh. The papers reported that “location, location, location” no longer sold a house. Cutting an asking price now became a “way of life” for many frustrated home sellers.
After witnessing the Los Angeles riots, some panicky buyers cancelled their escrows, and the cancellations were “spread all over” the region, not just in the immediate vicinity of the riots.
Other stories in the papers that year spoke glumly of hardships – of one couple’s American Dream house literally sinking into an oil sump in El Segundo, and of three-year-old Palos Verdes townhouses that were cracking and crumbling away due to poor construction. News writers moaned that neither lower interest rates, nor more affordable housing, were shaking the housing market out of its blues. Palos Verdes owners who were forced to sell were “getting killed.”
One expert explained that when sellers retain high expectations, property doesn’t move. But waiting “only masks the depths of the downside. Then distressed sales force the issue.”
U-Haul reported a run on its trucks as families fled to Denver, Las Vegas, Seattle, anywhere but Los Angeles.
Realtor Fred Sands wrote another letter to his clients, telling them: either forget about selling your property for the next three years, or reduce the price and get it sold. He defended the letter as a “badly needed dose of reality.”

1993
Just five years earlier, California had been described as “the future of America.” Now the state was redefined in terms of its housing slump — “a window into the soul of California.”
Foreclosures were commonplace. Foreclosing owners who could no longer afford therapists found some psychological relief by confessing foreclosure to their friends, who often responded with their own foreclosure woes or came out of the closet as renters. Lenders who previously refused to negotiate with sellers and let them sell short, forcing sellers to foreclose, were eager to unload all the foreclosures on their books.
The real estate market, once a “blossoming bride” of the 80’s, was now a “bloated hag” of the 90’s. The slump turned Angelenos into “budget-conscious tightwads fearful of what lies ahead.” The psychologists of better-heeled patients reported “real estate anxiety,” and “severe, unrelenting stress.” Homeowners were “shell-shocked,” and the “revision in expectations” had been “tremendous.”
One unsuccessful San Pedro home seller said, “This city is never bouncing back. Never, never, never.”

1993 (continued)
The war between realtors and their sellers was taking its toll. One realtor reported that one of her clients “actually said some pretty awful things to me, worse than I think I’ve ever heard. But my job was to push the facts.”
Other owners were caught chasing the market down. At open houses, competing home sellers in the neighborhood would drop by to “compare notes.” At one open house, a seller caught his neighbor rudely making use of his rowing machine. Offers to buy were “insulting.” Adding to the pressure, home sellers faced stiff competition from foreclosures, which one agent said accounted for some 65% of her sales.
Bottom feeders who had attended real estate seminars were making lowball offers. Owners described these lowballers as “predators.” One group of bottom-feeders who were regulars at courthouse auctions in Los Angeles County became known as the 40 Thieves.
Other buyers were described as “picky” and “looking under the hood” — but these buyers held no delusions about rapid appreciation.
CAR forecasts lost their sunshine. CAR notably couldn’t muster any enthusiasm about the prospects for the state housing market, stating that this year and next year would see declines. And condo sales, once the relatively affordable haven for desperate buyers, were looking grim.
One foreclosing owner cried, “It’s a sickness, and we are suffering.”

1994
Agents began to describe their local markets as “well picked over”, and bottoming out, with many mortgages upside down.
One realtor described the horrendous number of short sale cases as “tales from the crypt.” Banks were ever more willing to let owners forced by circumstances to get out of their properties to undergo a short sale.
Other stories described how some upper-scale neighborhoods were being renewed because some young families could now afford to live there and acquire their American Dream, if at the expense of many sellers. In a few cases buyers were trading up, even though they were selling their existing homes at a loss, because they figured that they would make up the loss in their new home.
Owners still trying to sell their houses dealt with lots of rejections, the “little insults” that had festered into “one big hurt”. A house that wouldn’t sell was now a “ball and chain.”
First-time homeowners from the late 80’s were “beat up emotionally,” having saved for years to buy that first house only to watch the equity vanish. Those forced to sell and leave the area characteristically left with maxed-out credit cards, hefty tax bills, and feelings of disillusionment. But some owners who got out from the shackles of the home they couldn’t sell reported blessed relief, even if faced with an increased tax bill for forgiven debt.
In the story that perhaps personified the agony of the downturn more than any other, some owners remained angry at realtors who assured sellers that if they only dropped their prices, their homes would sell more quickly. It didn’t necessarily happen that way. One anguished seller described living with a house that wouldn’t sell like “…living with a terminal cancer patient. There’s been lot of pain. We want the end to come. But when it does, we know it’s going to hurt even more.” His For Sale sign has been “perched like a vulture” for more than two years. He had put up with potential buyers that had brought video cameras and white gloves and their nosy questions and had always found something to criticize. That same seller said he was “bitter”, and described his five years in California as “sheer hell…the place was supposed to be our castle. But the market destroyed it, and it destroyed our dream. It’s like the Great Depression. We feel like we’ve lost everything. Now we’ve got to start over.”
1996
Mortgage delinquencies hit an eight year high; some market observers warned that the market “still has a long way to go.” By this time, close to 40% of the homes on the market in the San Fernando Valley were foreclosures.
Signaling a true turnaround, later reports described “buyers emerging in droves” even as prices were still falling. Yet realtors warned potential sellers that “this is not a time to overprice your property,” and forecasters were wary of a sustained recovery, noting that they had seen a few false dawns.
***
By the beginning of 1997, the market had pretty much bottomed and was on its way to a recovery. But just as prices continued to head up at the beginning of the downturn while sales volume declined, the reverse occurred at the end – sales volume picked up, while prices continued to decline a bit longer. Foreclosures continued to haunt the housing market into 1997, and even a little beyond.
But what on earth happened between 1988 and 1997? How did the mental outlook of the market participants change?
The fearful, pressured, hapless 1988 home buyer was swept along in a fast-running current and had no choice but to compete with other buyers and bid on desirable properties. He was often left out in the cold, and he was terrified of being priced out of the market. But the 1994 buyer was characterized as nosy and intruding and predatory and very, very picky.
The 1988 home seller was euphoric, ecstatic, and gleeful. The 1994 home seller was filled with desperation and despair, comparing the slow torture of owning a home that would not sell to being attached to a ball and chain, or living with a terminally ill cancer patient. The long-suffering mid-90’s home seller even went so far as to perceive long-standing “For Sale” signs as vultures and bottom-fishers as predators.
In 1988 industry observers berated Wall Street for bad-mouthing California and confidently predicted a continued boom. A few years into the downturn they declared too quickly that the market had bottomed. But by 1996 they had become very guarded in their outlook, conceding that they had been fooled by a few false starts, and warning their clients that the market still had a way to go.
The psychology of each market participant underwent a dramatic reversal. And if you want to invest in real estate somewhere near the market lows and sell somewhere near the market tops, these extremes in mood are what we need to look for in the housing markets in our future.
Hopefully, our brief journey through the archives of the Los Angeles Times has been an insightful one, a look back to a time that might help us as we navigate our way through our future.

[denverite]

Susan Barretta wrote this. It is chronology of the 1990’s bubble. Although no two crashes are ever the same, it’s an interesting baseline/comparison. Have fun.

1990
Realtors spoke euphemistically of the “wonderful buyer’s market,” encouraging anyone who didn’t need to sell his home to “pull off.” Relationships between realtors and home sellers were getting tense. Sellers accused agents of trying to cheat them by pressuring them to lower prices. One realtor (who asked not to be named) said:
“The bottom line as far as I’m concerned is always the price. The main problem I feel is people don’t want to concede prices have gone down.”
One story about the South Bay area of Los Angeles County quoted a realtor who defiantly declared:
“If [buyers] are waiting for the bottom to fall out, they are waiting in the wrong neighborhood. There just has never been any evidence of that in the South Bay.”
And of course, a number of experts were quoted saying the market was bottoming. One realtor likened the market to a junior high school sock hop, with buyers standing against one wall and sellers standing against the other wall, and everybody was just waiting for a few brave couples to venture out on the dance floor.

1991
As housing prices flattened and weakened, homeowners were scared that any change in the neighborhood was going to drag down the values of their homes. In turn they rejected attempts by their city councils to build smaller, more affordable housing units in their areas, even though to financially qualify for the new units a buyer would have had to earn an income comparable to the average income of existing homeowners of higher-priced homes in the area.
At the low end, dreams were destroyed of obtaining a home through sweat equity. And finally, the downturn started impacting the high-end market, which had been considered rather immune to the slump. Homes in places like Bel-Air sold for 50% less than 18 months earlier. One wealthy homeowner lamented, “The real estate bubble has certainly burst.”
Later that year, realtors cited the victory in the Persian Gulf War as a reason for buyers to return to the market; realtors thus hoped for a resultant rebound. For a brief time, buyers did indeed flock back into the market, and there were cases of multiple offers on a few desirable properties.
According to realtors, the general up-tick in sale volume that year was due to sellers listing their homes at more realistic prices instead of starting too high and having to come down. Expectations of rapid appreciation had now disappeared. Experts at UC Berkeley scolded Wall Street for bad-mouthing the Golden State and once again expressed optimism that the housing market, and the state economy overall, would soon recover.
In the meantime, builders were not remaining entirely idle. They auctioned off completed new construction in frenzied bidding wars fueled by agitated buyers. Knowing that first-time entry-level buyers were shut out of the market, major builders focused more on creating smaller units to save on materials and labor, rather than build for the mid-level or high-end markets.

1992
Uh oh. The papers reported that “location, location, location” no longer sold a house. Cutting an asking price now became a “way of life” for many frustrated home sellers.
After witnessing the Los Angeles riots, some panicky buyers cancelled their escrows, and the cancellations were “spread all over” the region, not just in the immediate vicinity of the riots.
Other stories in the papers that year spoke glumly of hardships – of one couple’s American Dream house literally sinking into an oil sump in El Segundo, and of three-year-old Palos Verdes townhouses that were cracking and crumbling away due to poor construction. News writers moaned that neither lower interest rates, nor more affordable housing, were shaking the housing market out of its blues. Palos Verdes owners who were forced to sell were “getting killed.”
One expert explained that when sellers retain high expectations, property doesn’t move. But waiting “only masks the depths of the downside. Then distressed sales force the issue.”
U-Haul reported a run on its trucks as families fled to Denver, Las Vegas, Seattle, anywhere but Los Angeles.
Realtor Fred Sands wrote another letter to his clients, telling them: either forget about selling your property for the next three years, or reduce the price and get it sold. He defended the letter as a “badly needed dose of reality.”

1993
Just five years earlier, California had been described as “the future of America.” Now the state was redefined in terms of its housing slump — “a window into the soul of California.”
Foreclosures were commonplace. Foreclosing owners who could no longer afford therapists found some psychological relief by confessing foreclosure to their friends, who often responded with their own foreclosure woes or came out of the closet as renters. Lenders who previously refused to negotiate with sellers and let them sell short, forcing sellers to foreclose, were eager to unload all the foreclosures on their books.
The real estate market, once a “blossoming bride” of the 80’s, was now a “bloated hag” of the 90’s. The slump turned Angelenos into “budget-conscious tightwads fearful of what lies ahead.” The psychologists of better-heeled patients reported “real estate anxiety,” and “severe, unrelenting stress.” Homeowners were “shell-shocked,” and the “revision in expectations” had been “tremendous.”
One unsuccessful San Pedro home seller said, “This city is never bouncing back. Never, never, never.”

1993 (continued)
The war between realtors and their sellers was taking its toll. One realtor reported that one of her clients “actually said some pretty awful things to me, worse than I think I’ve ever heard. But my job was to push the facts.”
Other owners were caught chasing the market down. At open houses, competing home sellers in the neighborhood would drop by to “compare notes.” At one open house, a seller caught his neighbor rudely making use of his rowing machine. Offers to buy were “insulting.” Adding to the pressure, home sellers faced stiff competition from foreclosures, which one agent said accounted for some 65% of her sales.
Bottom feeders who had attended real estate seminars were making lowball offers. Owners described these lowballers as “predators.” One group of bottom-feeders who were regulars at courthouse auctions in Los Angeles County became known as the 40 Thieves.
Other buyers were described as “picky” and “looking under the hood” — but these buyers held no delusions about rapid appreciation.
CAR forecasts lost their sunshine. CAR notably couldn’t muster any enthusiasm about the prospects for the state housing market, stating that this year and next year would see declines. And condo sales, once the relatively affordable haven for desperate buyers, were looking grim.
One foreclosing owner cried, “It’s a sickness, and we are suffering.”

1994
Agents began to describe their local markets as “well picked over”, and bottoming out, with many mortgages upside down.
One realtor described the horrendous number of short sale cases as “tales from the crypt.” Banks were ever more willing to let owners forced by circumstances to get out of their properties to undergo a short sale.
Other stories described how some upper-scale neighborhoods were being renewed because some young families could now afford to live there and acquire their American Dream, if at the expense of many sellers. In a few cases buyers were trading up, even though they were selling their existing homes at a loss, because they figured that they would make up the loss in their new home.
Owners still trying to sell their houses dealt with lots of rejections, the “little insults” that had festered into “one big hurt”. A house that wouldn’t sell was now a “ball and chain.”
First-time homeowners from the late 80’s were “beat up emotionally,” having saved for years to buy that first house only to watch the equity vanish. Those forced to sell and leave the area characteristically left with maxed-out credit cards, hefty tax bills, and feelings of disillusionment. But some owners who got out from the shackles of the home they couldn’t sell reported blessed relief, even if faced with an increased tax bill for forgiven debt.
In the story that perhaps personified the agony of the downturn more than any other, some owners remained angry at realtors who assured sellers that if they only dropped their prices, their homes would sell more quickly. It didn’t necessarily happen that way. One anguished seller described living with a house that wouldn’t sell like “…living with a terminal cancer patient. There’s been lot of pain. We want the end to come. But when it does, we know it’s going to hurt even more.” His For Sale sign has been “perched like a vulture” for more than two years. He had put up with potential buyers that had brought video cameras and white gloves and their nosy questions and had always found something to criticize. That same seller said he was “bitter”, and described his five years in California as “sheer hell…the place was supposed to be our castle. But the market destroyed it, and it destroyed our dream. It’s like the Great Depression. We feel like we’ve lost everything. Now we’ve got to start over.”
1996
Mortgage delinquencies hit an eight year high; some market observers warned that the market “still has a long way to go.” By this time, close to 40% of the homes on the market in the San Fernando Valley were foreclosures.
Signaling a true turnaround, later reports described “buyers emerging in droves” even as prices were still falling. Yet realtors warned potential sellers that “this is not a time to overprice your property,” and forecasters were wary of a sustained recovery, noting that they had seen a few false dawns.
***
By the beginning of 1997, the market had pretty much bottomed and was on its way to a recovery. But just as prices continued to head up at the beginning of the downturn while sales volume declined, the reverse occurred at the end – sales volume picked up, while prices continued to decline a bit longer. Foreclosures continued to haunt the housing market into 1997, and even a little beyond.
But what on earth happened between 1988 and 1997? How did the mental outlook of the market participants change?
The fearful, pressured, hapless 1988 home buyer was swept along in a fast-running current and had no choice but to compete with other buyers and bid on desirable properties. He was often left out in the cold, and he was terrified of being priced out of the market. But the 1994 buyer was characterized as nosy and intruding and predatory and very, very picky.
The 1988 home seller was euphoric, ecstatic, and gleeful. The 1994 home seller was filled with desperation and despair, comparing the slow torture of owning a home that would not sell to being attached to a ball and chain, or living with a terminally ill cancer patient. The long-suffering mid-90’s home seller even went so far as to perceive long-standing “For Sale” signs as vultures and bottom-fishers as predators.
In 1988 industry observers berated Wall Street for bad-mouthing California and confidently predicted a continued boom. A few years into the downturn they declared too quickly that the market had bottomed. But by 1996 they had become very guarded in their outlook, conceding that they had been fooled by a few false starts, and warning their clients that the market still had a way to go.
The psychology of each market participant underwent a dramatic reversal. And if you want to invest in real estate somewhere near the market lows and sell somewhere near the market tops, these extremes in mood are what we need to look for in the housing markets in our future.
Hopefully, our brief journey through the archives of the Los Angeles Times has been an insightful one, a look back to a time that might help us as we navigate our way through our future.

[denverite]

Susan Barretta wrote this. It is chronology of the 1990’s bubble. Although no two crashes are ever the same, it’s an interesting baseline/comparison. Have fun.

1990
Realtors spoke euphemistically of the “wonderful buyer’s market,” encouraging anyone who didn’t need to sell his home to “pull off.” Relationships between realtors and home sellers were getting tense. Sellers accused agents of trying to cheat them by pressuring them to lower prices. One realtor (who asked not to be named) said:
“The bottom line as far as I’m concerned is always the price. The main problem I feel is people don’t want to concede prices have gone down.”
One story about the South Bay area of Los Angeles County quoted a realtor who defiantly declared:
“If [buyers] are waiting for the bottom to fall out, they are waiting in the wrong neighborhood. There just has never been any evidence of that in the South Bay.”
And of course, a number of experts were quoted saying the market was bottoming. One realtor likened the market to a junior high school sock hop, with buyers standing against one wall and sellers standing against the other wall, and everybody was just waiting for a few brave couples to venture out on the dance floor.

1991
As housing prices flattened and weakened, homeowners were scared that any change in the neighborhood was going to drag down the values of their homes. In turn they rejected attempts by their city councils to build smaller, more affordable housing units in their areas, even though to financially qualify for the new units a buyer would have had to earn an income comparable to the average income of existing homeowners of higher-priced homes in the area.
At the low end, dreams were destroyed of obtaining a home through sweat equity. And finally, the downturn started impacting the high-end market, which had been considered rather immune to the slump. Homes in places like Bel-Air sold for 50% less than 18 months earlier. One wealthy homeowner lamented, “The real estate bubble has certainly burst.”
Later that year, realtors cited the victory in the Persian Gulf War as a reason for buyers to return to the market; realtors thus hoped for a resultant rebound. For a brief time, buyers did indeed flock back into the market, and there were cases of multiple offers on a few desirable properties.
According to realtors, the general up-tick in sale volume that year was due to sellers listing their homes at more realistic prices instead of starting too high and having to come down. Expectations of rapid appreciation had now disappeared. Experts at UC Berkeley scolded Wall Street for bad-mouthing the Golden State and once again expressed optimism that the housing market, and the state economy overall, would soon recover.
In the meantime, builders were not remaining entirely idle. They auctioned off completed new construction in frenzied bidding wars fueled by agitated buyers. Knowing that first-time entry-level buyers were shut out of the market, major builders focused more on creating smaller units to save on materials and labor, rather than build for the mid-level or high-end markets.

1992
Uh oh. The papers reported that “location, location, location” no longer sold a house. Cutting an asking price now became a “way of life” for many frustrated home sellers.
After witnessing the Los Angeles riots, some panicky buyers cancelled their escrows, and the cancellations were “spread all over” the region, not just in the immediate vicinity of the riots.
Other stories in the papers that year spoke glumly of hardships – of one couple’s American Dream house literally sinking into an oil sump in El Segundo, and of three-year-old Palos Verdes townhouses that were cracking and crumbling away due to poor construction. News writers moaned that neither lower interest rates, nor more affordable housing, were shaking the housing market out of its blues. Palos Verdes owners who were forced to sell were “getting killed.”
One expert explained that when sellers retain high expectations, property doesn’t move. But waiting “only masks the depths of the downside. Then distressed sales force the issue.”
U-Haul reported a run on its trucks as families fled to Denver, Las Vegas, Seattle, anywhere but Los Angeles.
Realtor Fred Sands wrote another letter to his clients, telling them: either forget about selling your property for the next three years, or reduce the price and get it sold. He defended the letter as a “badly needed dose of reality.”

1993
Just five years earlier, California had been described as “the future of America.” Now the state was redefined in terms of its housing slump — “a window into the soul of California.”
Foreclosures were commonplace. Foreclosing owners who could no longer afford therapists found some psychological relief by confessing foreclosure to their friends, who often responded with their own foreclosure woes or came out of the closet as renters. Lenders who previously refused to negotiate with sellers and let them sell short, forcing sellers to foreclose, were eager to unload all the foreclosures on their books.
The real estate market, once a “blossoming bride” of the 80’s, was now a “bloated hag” of the 90’s. The slump turned Angelenos into “budget-conscious tightwads fearful of what lies ahead.” The psychologists of better-heeled patients reported “real estate anxiety,” and “severe, unrelenting stress.” Homeowners were “shell-shocked,” and the “revision in expectations” had been “tremendous.”
One unsuccessful San Pedro home seller said, “This city is never bouncing back. Never, never, never.”

1993 (continued)
The war between realtors and their sellers was taking its toll. One realtor reported that one of her clients “actually said some pretty awful things to me, worse than I think I’ve ever heard. But my job was to push the facts.”
Other owners were caught chasing the market down. At open houses, competing home sellers in the neighborhood would drop by to “compare notes.” At one open house, a seller caught his neighbor rudely making use of his rowing machine. Offers to buy were “insulting.” Adding to the pressure, home sellers faced stiff competition from foreclosures, which one agent said accounted for some 65% of her sales.
Bottom feeders who had attended real estate seminars were making lowball offers. Owners described these lowballers as “predators.” One group of bottom-feeders who were regulars at courthouse auctions in Los Angeles County became known as the 40 Thieves.
Other buyers were described as “picky” and “looking under the hood” — but these buyers held no delusions about rapid appreciation.
CAR forecasts lost their sunshine. CAR notably couldn’t muster any enthusiasm about the prospects for the state housing market, stating that this year and next year would see declines. And condo sales, once the relatively affordable haven for desperate buyers, were looking grim.
One foreclosing owner cried, “It’s a sickness, and we are suffering.”

1994
Agents began to describe their local markets as “well picked over”, and bottoming out, with many mortgages upside down.
One realtor described the horrendous number of short sale cases as “tales from the crypt.” Banks were ever more willing to let owners forced by circumstances to get out of their properties to undergo a short sale.
Other stories described how some upper-scale neighborhoods were being renewed because some young families could now afford to live there and acquire their American Dream, if at the expense of many sellers. In a few cases buyers were trading up, even though they were selling their existing homes at a loss, because they figured that they would make up the loss in their new home.
Owners still trying to sell their houses dealt with lots of rejections, the “little insults” that had festered into “one big hurt”. A house that wouldn’t sell was now a “ball and chain.”
First-time homeowners from the late 80’s were “beat up emotionally,” having saved for years to buy that first house only to watch the equity vanish. Those forced to sell and leave the area characteristically left with maxed-out credit cards, hefty tax bills, and feelings of disillusionment. But some owners who got out from the shackles of the home they couldn’t sell reported blessed relief, even if faced with an increased tax bill for forgiven debt.
In the story that perhaps personified the agony of the downturn more than any other, some owners remained angry at realtors who assured sellers that if they only dropped their prices, their homes would sell more quickly. It didn’t necessarily happen that way. One anguished seller described living with a house that wouldn’t sell like “…living with a terminal cancer patient. There’s been lot of pain. We want the end to come. But when it does, we know it’s going to hurt even more.” His For Sale sign has been “perched like a vulture” for more than two years. He had put up with potential buyers that had brought video cameras and white gloves and their nosy questions and had always found something to criticize. That same seller said he was “bitter”, and described his five years in California as “sheer hell…the place was supposed to be our castle. But the market destroyed it, and it destroyed our dream. It’s like the Great Depression. We feel like we’ve lost everything. Now we’ve got to start over.”
1996
Mortgage delinquencies hit an eight year high; some market observers warned that the market “still has a long way to go.” By this time, close to 40% of the homes on the market in the San Fernando Valley were foreclosures.
Signaling a true turnaround, later reports described “buyers emerging in droves” even as prices were still falling. Yet realtors warned potential sellers that “this is not a time to overprice your property,” and forecasters were wary of a sustained recovery, noting that they had seen a few false dawns.
***
By the beginning of 1997, the market had pretty much bottomed and was on its way to a recovery. But just as prices continued to head up at the beginning of the downturn while sales volume declined, the reverse occurred at the end – sales volume picked up, while prices continued to decline a bit longer. Foreclosures continued to haunt the housing market into 1997, and even a little beyond.
But what on earth happened between 1988 and 1997? How did the mental outlook of the market participants change?
The fearful, pressured, hapless 1988 home buyer was swept along in a fast-running current and had no choice but to compete with other buyers and bid on desirable properties. He was often left out in the cold, and he was terrified of being priced out of the market. But the 1994 buyer was characterized as nosy and intruding and predatory and very, very picky.
The 1988 home seller was euphoric, ecstatic, and gleeful. The 1994 home seller was filled with desperation and despair, comparing the slow torture of owning a home that would not sell to being attached to a ball and chain, or living with a terminally ill cancer patient. The long-suffering mid-90’s home seller even went so far as to perceive long-standing “For Sale” signs as vultures and bottom-fishers as predators.
In 1988 industry observers berated Wall Street for bad-mouthing California and confidently predicted a continued boom. A few years into the downturn they declared too quickly that the market had bottomed. But by 1996 they had become very guarded in their outlook, conceding that they had been fooled by a few false starts, and warning their clients that the market still had a way to go.
The psychology of each market participant underwent a dramatic reversal. And if you want to invest in real estate somewhere near the market lows and sell somewhere near the market tops, these extremes in mood are what we need to look for in the housing markets in our future.
Hopefully, our brief journey through the archives of the Los Angeles Times has been an insightful one, a look back to a time that might help us as we navigate our way through our future.

[NotCranky]

I would love to see Bugs come back and update us on his current thoughts and prognostigations.

It seems like there is no way piggs are going to agree when there is a bottom…or even that it is a reasonable time to buy, including after many piggs have. At the bottom we will see role reversals of those in this clip
That is , the bears are going to look as stupid as these two extreme Bulls did.

[NotCranky]

I would love to see Bugs come back and update us on his current thoughts and prognostigations.

It seems like there is no way piggs are going to agree when there is a bottom…or even that it is a reasonable time to buy, including after many piggs have. At the bottom we will see role reversals of those in this clip
That is , the bears are going to look as stupid as these two extreme Bulls did.

[NotCranky]

I would love to see Bugs come back and update us on his current thoughts and prognostigations.

It seems like there is no way piggs are going to agree when there is a bottom…or even that it is a reasonable time to buy, including after many piggs have. At the bottom we will see role reversals of those in this clip
That is , the bears are going to look as stupid as these two extreme Bulls did.

[NotCranky]

I would love to see Bugs come back and update us on his current thoughts and prognostigations.

It seems like there is no way piggs are going to agree when there is a bottom…or even that it is a reasonable time to buy, including after many piggs have. At the bottom we will see role reversals of those in this clip
That is , the bears are going to look as stupid as these two extreme Bulls did.

[5yearwaiter]

[quote=patientrenter][quote=jpinpb]CAR – It all makes sense in a way, if there is a great devised plan. And by the time everything comes around, mixing inflation in the picture, a median home will be over 500k again. GAAA!![/quote]

Oh, that’s good, jpnpb! That was the missing piece. In 5-10 years time, we’ll see if this all happened as laid out here.
[/quote]

This situation is going to be bit different than 1995 scenario. That time everything is in control except the one big economy downturn as a routine, but now we are mess-up in all levels. There is a lot to do for baby boomers, lot to do our increased or keep increasing price(s), shift of gloabal economy(slowly started no more US based trade from China further n further), worries about Social Security funds and on the top we never thought of how the past 8 years consumed trillons to cover. I strongly believe we crash our system a bit vulenerable and there wouldn’t be any steep recovery nor any to claim we are back, where as we still remain in a lot troubles though a few fixed, few other issues would always be waiting to pull the rest always down.

[5yearwaiter]

[quote=patientrenter][quote=jpinpb]CAR – It all makes sense in a way, if there is a great devised plan. And by the time everything comes around, mixing inflation in the picture, a median home will be over 500k again. GAAA!![/quote]

Oh, that’s good, jpnpb! That was the missing piece. In 5-10 years time, we’ll see if this all happened as laid out here.
[/quote]

This situation is going to be bit different than 1995 scenario. That time everything is in control except the one big economy downturn as a routine, but now we are mess-up in all levels. There is a lot to do for baby boomers, lot to do our increased or keep increasing price(s), shift of gloabal economy(slowly started no more US based trade from China further n further), worries about Social Security funds and on the top we never thought of how the past 8 years consumed trillons to cover. I strongly believe we crash our system a bit vulenerable and there wouldn’t be any steep recovery nor any to claim we are back, where as we still remain in a lot troubles though a few fixed, few other issues would always be waiting to pull the rest always down.

[5yearwaiter]

[quote=patientrenter][quote=jpinpb]CAR – It all makes sense in a way, if there is a great devised plan. And by the time everything comes around, mixing inflation in the picture, a median home will be over 500k again. GAAA!![/quote]

Oh, that’s good, jpnpb! That was the missing piece. In 5-10 years time, we’ll see if this all happened as laid out here.
[/quote]

This situation is going to be bit different than 1995 scenario. That time everything is in control except the one big economy downturn as a routine, but now we are mess-up in all levels. There is a lot to do for baby boomers, lot to do our increased or keep increasing price(s), shift of gloabal economy(slowly started no more US based trade from China further n further), worries about Social Security funds and on the top we never thought of how the past 8 years consumed trillons to cover. I strongly believe we crash our system a bit vulenerable and there wouldn’t be any steep recovery nor any to claim we are back, where as we still remain in a lot troubles though a few fixed, few other issues would always be waiting to pull the rest always down.

[5yearwaiter]

[quote=patientrenter][quote=jpinpb]CAR – It all makes sense in a way, if there is a great devised plan. And by the time everything comes around, mixing inflation in the picture, a median home will be over 500k again. GAAA!![/quote]

Oh, that’s good, jpnpb! That was the missing piece. In 5-10 years time, we’ll see if this all happened as laid out here.
[/quote]

This situation is going to be bit different than 1995 scenario. That time everything is in control except the one big economy downturn as a routine, but now we are mess-up in all levels. There is a lot to do for baby boomers, lot to do our increased or keep increasing price(s), shift of gloabal economy(slowly started no more US based trade from China further n further), worries about Social Security funds and on the top we never thought of how the past 8 years consumed trillons to cover. I strongly believe we crash our system a bit vulenerable and there wouldn’t be any steep recovery nor any to claim we are back, where as we still remain in a lot troubles though a few fixed, few other issues would always be waiting to pull the rest always down.

[patientrenter]

[quote=jpinpb]CAR – It all makes sense in a way, if there is a great devised plan. And by the time everything comes around, mixing inflation in the picture, a median home will be over 500k again. GAAA!![/quote]

Oh, that’s good, jpnpb! That was the missing piece. In 5-10 years time, we’ll see if this all happened as laid out here.

[patientrenter]

[quote=jpinpb]CAR – It all makes sense in a way, if there is a great devised plan. And by the time everything comes around, mixing inflation in the picture, a median home will be over 500k again. GAAA!![/quote]

Oh, that’s good, jpnpb! That was the missing piece. In 5-10 years time, we’ll see if this all happened as laid out here.

[patientrenter]

[quote=jpinpb]CAR – It all makes sense in a way, if there is a great devised plan. And by the time everything comes around, mixing inflation in the picture, a median home will be over 500k again. GAAA!![/quote]

Oh, that’s good, jpnpb! That was the missing piece. In 5-10 years time, we’ll see if this all happened as laid out here.

[patientrenter]

[quote=jpinpb]CAR – It all makes sense in a way, if there is a great devised plan. And by the time everything comes around, mixing inflation in the picture, a median home will be over 500k again. GAAA!![/quote]

Oh, that’s good, jpnpb! That was the missing piece. In 5-10 years time, we’ll see if this all happened as laid out here.

[KIBU]

The bottom is only an arm length away. How it feels like? You have to check for yourself.

[Eugene]

Regarding #7, it did become fashionable to forecast additional 25% declines in mass media … as opposed to a year ago, when Times & such were competing in bottom calling.

[Eugene]

Regarding #7, it did become fashionable to forecast additional 25% declines in mass media … as opposed to a year ago, when Times & such were competing in bottom calling.

[Eugene]

Regarding #7, it did become fashionable to forecast additional 25% declines in mass media … as opposed to a year ago, when Times & such were competing in bottom calling.

[Eugene]

Regarding #7, it did become fashionable to forecast additional 25% declines in mass media … as opposed to a year ago, when Times & such were competing in bottom calling.

[Eugene]

Regarding #7, it did become fashionable to forecast additional 25% declines in mass media … as opposed to a year ago, when Times & such were competing in bottom calling.

[KIBU]

The bottom is only an arm length away. How it feels like? You have to check for yourself.

[KIBU]

The bottom is only an arm length away. How it feels like? You have to check for yourself.

[KIBU]

The bottom is only an arm length away. How it feels like? You have to check for yourself.

[KIBU]

The bottom is only an arm length away. How it feels like? You have to check for yourself.

[jpinpb]

CAR – It all makes sense in a way, if there is a great devised plan. And by the time everything comes around, mixing inflation in the picture, a median home will be over 500k again. GAAA!!

[jpinpb]

CAR – It all makes sense in a way, if there is a great devised plan. And by the time everything comes around, mixing inflation in the picture, a median home will be over 500k again. GAAA!!

[jpinpb]

CAR – It all makes sense in a way, if there is a great devised plan. And by the time everything comes around, mixing inflation in the picture, a median home will be over 500k again. GAAA!!

[jpinpb]

CAR – It all makes sense in a way, if there is a great devised plan. And by the time everything comes around, mixing inflation in the picture, a median home will be over 500k again. GAAA!!

[CA renter]

[quote=jpinpb]There’s still too many investors buying cheap places and fixing/flipping. Hard to believe, but I’m still seeing it, particularly the cash only places and places that are in need of fixing. Buy w/cash cheap, fix, sell higher but to someone qualified under FHA guidelines.[/quote]

Couldn’t agree more, jp. We are a long way from the bottom, IMHO.

One thing I was thinking about just last night, though…maybe this is part of a larger plan.

1. Hold inventory off the market, using taxpayer money to cover expenses and losses during this period, but not taking the kind of losses that would occur if all the inventory were allowed to go to market. This keeps prices elevated on a temporary basis.

2. Hype the market through the MSM and other media. Have some big names call a bottom. Hope this gets more people all worked up about the market bottoming, and they are told it will rocket back up in no time.

3. Shove taxpayer money into the market via the $8K federal gift and the $10K state gift for new homes. Lower rates to ridiculously low levels so that fixed income investors are once again forced to deploy their money in much riskier ways. It also makes the ROI on housing go up with all the gifts, low rates, and somewhat lower prices.

4. …which brings “investors” into the market with **cash** (that would otherwise be in fixed income investments???) or government loans. These “investors” plan to either flip these properties or rent them out for a while, “until the market goes back up.”

5. Continue with all the subsidies until the banks have repaired their balance sheets (as well as they can) via dumping on all these “investors”, then reign in all the subsidies and crank up rates because inflation will have taken hold in a big way.

6. At this point, all the govt lenders (Fannie, Freddie and FHA guaranteed loans), “cash investors” and hard-money lenders will be on the hook instead of the banking oligopoly, and the govt can let the market fall to its intrinsic value.

We must always remember that they are not here to protect taxpaying citizens, or even the govt (currency and/or public debt). They want to protect certain banking interests.

Problem solved. 🙂

[CA renter]

[quote=jpinpb]There’s still too many investors buying cheap places and fixing/flipping. Hard to believe, but I’m still seeing it, particularly the cash only places and places that are in need of fixing. Buy w/cash cheap, fix, sell higher but to someone qualified under FHA guidelines.[/quote]

Couldn’t agree more, jp. We are a long way from the bottom, IMHO.

One thing I was thinking about just last night, though…maybe this is part of a larger plan.

1. Hold inventory off the market, using taxpayer money to cover expenses and losses during this period, but not taking the kind of losses that would occur if all the inventory were allowed to go to market. This keeps prices elevated on a temporary basis.

2. Hype the market through the MSM and other media. Have some big names call a bottom. Hope this gets more people all worked up about the market bottoming, and they are told it will rocket back up in no time.

3. Shove taxpayer money into the market via the $8K federal gift and the $10K state gift for new homes. Lower rates to ridiculously low levels so that fixed income investors are once again forced to deploy their money in much riskier ways. It also makes the ROI on housing go up with all the gifts, low rates, and somewhat lower prices.

4. …which brings “investors” into the market with **cash** (that would otherwise be in fixed income investments???) or government loans. These “investors” plan to either flip these properties or rent them out for a while, “until the market goes back up.”

5. Continue with all the subsidies until the banks have repaired their balance sheets (as well as they can) via dumping on all these “investors”, then reign in all the subsidies and crank up rates because inflation will have taken hold in a big way.

6. At this point, all the govt lenders (Fannie, Freddie and FHA guaranteed loans), “cash investors” and hard-money lenders will be on the hook instead of the banking oligopoly, and the govt can let the market fall to its intrinsic value.

We must always remember that they are not here to protect taxpaying citizens, or even the govt (currency and/or public debt). They want to protect certain banking interests.

Problem solved. 🙂

[CA renter]

[quote=jpinpb]There’s still too many investors buying cheap places and fixing/flipping. Hard to believe, but I’m still seeing it, particularly the cash only places and places that are in need of fixing. Buy w/cash cheap, fix, sell higher but to someone qualified under FHA guidelines.[/quote]

Couldn’t agree more, jp. We are a long way from the bottom, IMHO.

One thing I was thinking about just last night, though…maybe this is part of a larger plan.

1. Hold inventory off the market, using taxpayer money to cover expenses and losses during this period, but not taking the kind of losses that would occur if all the inventory were allowed to go to market. This keeps prices elevated on a temporary basis.

2. Hype the market through the MSM and other media. Have some big names call a bottom. Hope this gets more people all worked up about the market bottoming, and they are told it will rocket back up in no time.

3. Shove taxpayer money into the market via the $8K federal gift and the $10K state gift for new homes. Lower rates to ridiculously low levels so that fixed income investors are once again forced to deploy their money in much riskier ways. It also makes the ROI on housing go up with all the gifts, low rates, and somewhat lower prices.

4. …which brings “investors” into the market with **cash** (that would otherwise be in fixed income investments???) or government loans. These “investors” plan to either flip these properties or rent them out for a while, “until the market goes back up.”

5. Continue with all the subsidies until the banks have repaired their balance sheets (as well as they can) via dumping on all these “investors”, then reign in all the subsidies and crank up rates because inflation will have taken hold in a big way.

6. At this point, all the govt lenders (Fannie, Freddie and FHA guaranteed loans), “cash investors” and hard-money lenders will be on the hook instead of the banking oligopoly, and the govt can let the market fall to its intrinsic value.

We must always remember that they are not here to protect taxpaying citizens, or even the govt (currency and/or public debt). They want to protect certain banking interests.

Problem solved. 🙂

[CA renter]

[quote=jpinpb]There’s still too many investors buying cheap places and fixing/flipping. Hard to believe, but I’m still seeing it, particularly the cash only places and places that are in need of fixing. Buy w/cash cheap, fix, sell higher but to someone qualified under FHA guidelines.[/quote]

Couldn’t agree more, jp. We are a long way from the bottom, IMHO.

One thing I was thinking about just last night, though…maybe this is part of a larger plan.

1. Hold inventory off the market, using taxpayer money to cover expenses and losses during this period, but not taking the kind of losses that would occur if all the inventory were allowed to go to market. This keeps prices elevated on a temporary basis.

2. Hype the market through the MSM and other media. Have some big names call a bottom. Hope this gets more people all worked up about the market bottoming, and they are told it will rocket back up in no time.

3. Shove taxpayer money into the market via the $8K federal gift and the $10K state gift for new homes. Lower rates to ridiculously low levels so that fixed income investors are once again forced to deploy their money in much riskier ways. It also makes the ROI on housing go up with all the gifts, low rates, and somewhat lower prices.

4. …which brings “investors” into the market with **cash** (that would otherwise be in fixed income investments???) or government loans. These “investors” plan to either flip these properties or rent them out for a while, “until the market goes back up.”

5. Continue with all the subsidies until the banks have repaired their balance sheets (as well as they can) via dumping on all these “investors”, then reign in all the subsidies and crank up rates because inflation will have taken hold in a big way.

6. At this point, all the govt lenders (Fannie, Freddie and FHA guaranteed loans), “cash investors” and hard-money lenders will be on the hook instead of the banking oligopoly, and the govt can let the market fall to its intrinsic value.

We must always remember that they are not here to protect taxpaying citizens, or even the govt (currency and/or public debt). They want to protect certain banking interests.

Problem solved. 🙂

[jpinpb]

There’s still too many investors buying cheap places and fixing/flipping. Hard to believe, but I’m still seeing it, particularly the cash only places and places that are in need of fixing. Buy w/cash cheap, fix, sell higher but to someone qualified under FHA guidelines.

[jpinpb]

There’s still too many investors buying cheap places and fixing/flipping. Hard to believe, but I’m still seeing it, particularly the cash only places and places that are in need of fixing. Buy w/cash cheap, fix, sell higher but to someone qualified under FHA guidelines.

[jpinpb]

There’s still too many investors buying cheap places and fixing/flipping. Hard to believe, but I’m still seeing it, particularly the cash only places and places that are in need of fixing. Buy w/cash cheap, fix, sell higher but to someone qualified under FHA guidelines.

[jpinpb]

There’s still too many investors buying cheap places and fixing/flipping. Hard to believe, but I’m still seeing it, particularly the cash only places and places that are in need of fixing. Buy w/cash cheap, fix, sell higher but to someone qualified under FHA guidelines.

[CA renter]

Great list.

Looks like your #1 is surely happening. I wonder what percentage of Piggs have bought already. From the posts, it looks pretty high.

Still, too much of #s 10, 9, 6, and (not) 5 going on to believe it’s really a bottom, but that’s just me.

[CA renter]

Great list.

Looks like your #1 is surely happening. I wonder what percentage of Piggs have bought already. From the posts, it looks pretty high.

Still, too much of #s 10, 9, 6, and (not) 5 going on to believe it’s really a bottom, but that’s just me.

[CA renter]

Great list.

Looks like your #1 is surely happening. I wonder what percentage of Piggs have bought already. From the posts, it looks pretty high.

Still, too much of #s 10, 9, 6, and (not) 5 going on to believe it’s really a bottom, but that’s just me.

[CA renter]

Great list.

Looks like your #1 is surely happening. I wonder what percentage of Piggs have bought already. From the posts, it looks pretty high.

Still, too much of #s 10, 9, 6, and (not) 5 going on to believe it’s really a bottom, but that’s just me.

[Deserted]

[quote=contrarian]The top ten ways to know that the bottom is here:

(Drum roll please)

10. No sellers are offering “free” plasma TV’s — just lower prices.

9. Buyers with bad credit are called renters.

8. RE professionals act professionally.

7. Time magazine’s headline “Housing will never recover”.

6. Your waitress and your barber no longer brag about how they made a fortune in real estate.

5. People buy houses to actually live in them.

4. US Attorney convicts Angelo Mozilo.

3. Democrats establish a commission to “cure” the housing problem. Republicans issue a press release stating that there may be a housing bubble. Libertarians are busy building bomb shelters.

2. No more bombastic ads for get rich quick real estate seminars.

And, the number one way to know that the bottom is here: all the Piggs have bought their dream houses!
[/quote]

We may be close!!

I’m still waiting for #4 and #1. (Forget about #8 — it will never happen. What was I thinking?)

[Deserted]

[quote=contrarian]The top ten ways to know that the bottom is here:

(Drum roll please)

10. No sellers are offering “free” plasma TV’s — just lower prices.

9. Buyers with bad credit are called renters.

8. RE professionals act professionally.

7. Time magazine’s headline “Housing will never recover”.

6. Your waitress and your barber no longer brag about how they made a fortune in real estate.

5. People buy houses to actually live in them.

4. US Attorney convicts Angelo Mozilo.

3. Democrats establish a commission to “cure” the housing problem. Republicans issue a press release stating that there may be a housing bubble. Libertarians are busy building bomb shelters.

2. No more bombastic ads for get rich quick real estate seminars.

And, the number one way to know that the bottom is here: all the Piggs have bought their dream houses!
[/quote]

We may be close!!

I’m still waiting for #4 and #1. (Forget about #8 — it will never happen. What was I thinking?)

[Deserted]

[quote=contrarian]The top ten ways to know that the bottom is here:

(Drum roll please)

10. No sellers are offering “free” plasma TV’s — just lower prices.

9. Buyers with bad credit are called renters.

8. RE professionals act professionally.

7. Time magazine’s headline “Housing will never recover”.

6. Your waitress and your barber no longer brag about how they made a fortune in real estate.

5. People buy houses to actually live in them.

4. US Attorney convicts Angelo Mozilo.

3. Democrats establish a commission to “cure” the housing problem. Republicans issue a press release stating that there may be a housing bubble. Libertarians are busy building bomb shelters.

2. No more bombastic ads for get rich quick real estate seminars.

And, the number one way to know that the bottom is here: all the Piggs have bought their dream houses!
[/quote]

We may be close!!

I’m still waiting for #4 and #1. (Forget about #8 — it will never happen. What was I thinking?)

[Deserted]

[quote=contrarian]The top ten ways to know that the bottom is here:

(Drum roll please)

10. No sellers are offering “free” plasma TV’s — just lower prices.

9. Buyers with bad credit are called renters.

8. RE professionals act professionally.

7. Time magazine’s headline “Housing will never recover”.

6. Your waitress and your barber no longer brag about how they made a fortune in real estate.

5. People buy houses to actually live in them.

4. US Attorney convicts Angelo Mozilo.

3. Democrats establish a commission to “cure” the housing problem. Republicans issue a press release stating that there may be a housing bubble. Libertarians are busy building bomb shelters.

2. No more bombastic ads for get rich quick real estate seminars.

And, the number one way to know that the bottom is here: all the Piggs have bought their dream houses!
[/quote]

We may be close!!

I’m still waiting for #4 and #1. (Forget about #8 — it will never happen. What was I thinking?)

[Deserted]

The top ten ways to know that the bottom is here:

(Drum roll please)

10. No sellers are offering “free” plasma TV’s — just lower prices.

9. Buyers with bad credit are called renters.

8. RE professionals act professionally.

7. Time magazine’s headline “Housing will never recover”.

6. Your waitress and your barber no longer brag about how they made a fortune in real estate.

5. People buy houses to actually live in them.

4. US Attorney convicts Angelo Mozilo.

3. Democrats establish a commission to “cure” the housing problem. Republicans issue a press release stating that there may be a housing bubble. Libertarians are busy building bomb shelters.

2. No more bombastic ads for get rich quick real estate seminars.

And, the number one way to know that the bottom is here: all the Piggs have bought their dream houses!

[Deserted]

The top ten ways to know that the bottom is here:

(Drum roll please)

10. No sellers are offering “free” plasma TV’s — just lower prices.

9. Buyers with bad credit are called renters.

8. RE professionals act professionally.

7. Time magazine’s headline “Housing will never recover”.

6. Your waitress and your barber no longer brag about how they made a fortune in real estate.

5. People buy houses to actually live in them.

4. US Attorney convicts Angelo Mozilo.

3. Democrats establish a commission to “cure” the housing problem. Republicans issue a press release stating that there may be a housing bubble. Libertarians are busy building bomb shelters.

2. No more bombastic ads for get rich quick real estate seminars.

And, the number one way to know that the bottom is here: all the Piggs have bought their dream houses!

[Deserted]

The top ten ways to know that the bottom is here:

(Drum roll please)

10. No sellers are offering “free” plasma TV’s — just lower prices.

9. Buyers with bad credit are called renters.

8. RE professionals act professionally.

7. Time magazine’s headline “Housing will never recover”.

6. Your waitress and your barber no longer brag about how they made a fortune in real estate.

5. People buy houses to actually live in them.

4. US Attorney convicts Angelo Mozilo.

3. Democrats establish a commission to “cure” the housing problem. Republicans issue a press release stating that there may be a housing bubble. Libertarians are busy building bomb shelters.

2. No more bombastic ads for get rich quick real estate seminars.

And, the number one way to know that the bottom is here: all the Piggs have bought their dream houses!

[Deserted]

The top ten ways to know that the bottom is here:

(Drum roll please)

10. No sellers are offering “free” plasma TV’s — just lower prices.

9. Buyers with bad credit are called renters.

8. RE professionals act professionally.

7. Time magazine’s headline “Housing will never recover”.

6. Your waitress and your barber no longer brag about how they made a fortune in real estate.

5. People buy houses to actually live in them.

4. US Attorney convicts Angelo Mozilo.

3. Democrats establish a commission to “cure” the housing problem. Republicans issue a press release stating that there may be a housing bubble. Libertarians are busy building bomb shelters.

2. No more bombastic ads for get rich quick real estate seminars.

And, the number one way to know that the bottom is here: all the Piggs have bought their dream houses!

[kewp]

I’ve posted this before, but I feel it bears repeating…

When home prices start appreciating again, the bottom just passed.

I personally think that due to the magnitude of the bubble and the ensuing economic fallout it will be more severe then any previous downturn.

[kewp]

I’ve posted this before, but I feel it bears repeating…

When home prices start appreciating again, the bottom just passed.

I personally think that due to the magnitude of the bubble and the ensuing economic fallout it will be more severe then any previous downturn.

[kewp]

I’ve posted this before, but I feel it bears repeating…

When home prices start appreciating again, the bottom just passed.

I personally think that due to the magnitude of the bubble and the ensuing economic fallout it will be more severe then any previous downturn.

[kewp]

I’ve posted this before, but I feel it bears repeating…

When home prices start appreciating again, the bottom just passed.

I personally think that due to the magnitude of the bubble and the ensuing economic fallout it will be more severe then any previous downturn.

[sdduuuude]

It will look like “water, water everywhere, but not a drop to drink.”

Prices will be low, but even though the extrememly tight credit markets of the last couple years have started to loosen up, you will have difficulty scraping together a down payment and qualifying for the loan you want.

People “in the know” will say sharp things like “cash is king, baby.”

P.S. Nice post, contrarian. #3 is a classic.

[little lady]

“Did anyone say “wow housing is a great buy, I think we should buy”? ”

3things I kinda remember:

1) News shows commenting on early 90’s being a buyers market
alot

2) People you would talk to would comment on how it was cheeper to buy than rent

3)My brother bought his first house in ’89

My brother bought 2 in ’05! When he buys, I am thinkin’ sell sell sell!

[little lady]

“Did anyone say “wow housing is a great buy, I think we should buy”? ”

3things I kinda remember:

1) News shows commenting on early 90’s being a buyers market
alot

2) People you would talk to would comment on how it was cheeper to buy than rent

3)My brother bought his first house in ’89

My brother bought 2 in ’05! When he buys, I am thinkin’ sell sell sell!

[little lady]

“Did anyone say “wow housing is a great buy, I think we should buy”? ”

3things I kinda remember:

1) News shows commenting on early 90’s being a buyers market
alot

2) People you would talk to would comment on how it was cheeper to buy than rent

3)My brother bought his first house in ’89

My brother bought 2 in ’05! When he buys, I am thinkin’ sell sell sell!

[little lady]

“Did anyone say “wow housing is a great buy, I think we should buy”? ”

3things I kinda remember:

1) News shows commenting on early 90’s being a buyers market
alot

2) People you would talk to would comment on how it was cheeper to buy than rent

3)My brother bought his first house in ’89

My brother bought 2 in ’05! When he buys, I am thinkin’ sell sell sell!

[little lady]

“Did anyone say “wow housing is a great buy, I think we should buy”? ”

3things I kinda remember:

1) News shows commenting on early 90’s being a buyers market
alot

2) People you would talk to would comment on how it was cheeper to buy than rent

3)My brother bought his first house in ’89

My brother bought 2 in ’05! When he buys, I am thinkin’ sell sell sell!

[sdduuuude]

It will look like “water, water everywhere, but not a drop to drink.”

Prices will be low, but even though the extrememly tight credit markets of the last couple years have started to loosen up, you will have difficulty scraping together a down payment and qualifying for the loan you want.

People “in the know” will say sharp things like “cash is king, baby.”

P.S. Nice post, contrarian. #3 is a classic.

[sdduuuude]

It will look like “water, water everywhere, but not a drop to drink.”

Prices will be low, but even though the extrememly tight credit markets of the last couple years have started to loosen up, you will have difficulty scraping together a down payment and qualifying for the loan you want.

People “in the know” will say sharp things like “cash is king, baby.”

P.S. Nice post, contrarian. #3 is a classic.

[sdduuuude]

It will look like “water, water everywhere, but not a drop to drink.”

Prices will be low, but even though the extrememly tight credit markets of the last couple years have started to loosen up, you will have difficulty scraping together a down payment and qualifying for the loan you want.

People “in the know” will say sharp things like “cash is king, baby.”

P.S. Nice post, contrarian. #3 is a classic.

[sdduuuude]

It will look like “water, water everywhere, but not a drop to drink.”

Prices will be low, but even though the extrememly tight credit markets of the last couple years have started to loosen up, you will have difficulty scraping together a down payment and qualifying for the loan you want.

People “in the know” will say sharp things like “cash is king, baby.”

P.S. Nice post, contrarian. #3 is a classic.

[mixxalot]

Bottom still not reached yet

I know the market is getting worse as I recently saw a friend of mine at church who happens to be a RE agent. She was trying to get me to buy a house and told me that soon all brokers and lenders will require a 20% down payment and good credit. No more funny money or numbers will be available. I told her politely thats fine as I am biding my time and putting money away for the down payment on a townhome and that the savings would be well worth it. Few Americans even save and live on credit so I know it will be good to buy in 3-5 years time.

[hipmatt]

You won’t know the bottom until after it has happened. That being said it is still a long way off. We have these stupid threads about if the bottom is just around the corner every month.

I suggest everyone wondering about “botttoms” go read Rich’s primers and take a look at his charts to get and idea of how the typical housing correction runs its course. That also being said, this wasn’t the typical housing boom, it was the largest housing boom in US and probably world history. I suspect it may take longer to correct or to bottom than smaller booms did the in past 40 years. And we are facing even tougher economic problems now than in previous corrections. It will be amazing/miraculous if we can avoid a recession, and a recession will only prolong and amplify any housing crash. Also the inventory levels need to drop DRAMATICALLY before even thinking about the bottom. Inventory will be the best indicator of future housing prices. Right now the massive inventory guarantees lower home prices to come. There is no shortage of housing, there is a huge shortage of qualified buyers. My guess has always been and still is sometime around 2011 or so, obviously this is a guess and I think that if anything, later than that is more likely than sooner.

[cr]

You’ll know it’s the bottom when the NAR reports bad news about housing.

[Aecetia]

According to RatherOpinionated on December 2006, this is what it will look like:

“Timing the Bottom
User Forum Topic
Submitted by RatherOpinionated on December 6, 2007 – 10:15am.
Rich,
the same way you know that buying CFC or FNM or FRE or C for any of your clients is one of the smartest things you’ll do all year. Markets go to extremes and get extremely oversold or overbought well before the bottom is ever identified. By the time you “know” you’ve hit bottom, it is already too late.
For example, Countrywide stock with rumors of bankruptcy etc. hit a low of 8.21 recently. Well, it’s trading at 11.49 right now – that’s a 40% bounce. Had you waited for “confirmation” of a bottom or that all their bad news was behind them – you would still be waiting and made nothing. I also recognize you can’t be the one to buy at 8.21, but if you bought anywhere under $10/share, based on knowing there is too much BAD news out there for the thing to be priced correctly, you would still be sitting on a great return.
I’d take this same philosophy to REO’s and the Real Estate market. Everyone KNOWS there are months of inventory and the pipelines are growing, they KNOW there are a bunch of REO’s that haven’t even hit the market yet – and simply because EVERYONE ALREADY KNOWS, the current prices are reflecting that already. “Efficient Market” – I’m sure you remember that from your Series 7 exam last year.
Oh, and what isn’t “priced in” yet is all the ways our nifty government will come to the rescue of lenders and borrowers. This should help support the market as well.
This is fun….”

I wonder if this is fun now?

[Anonymous]

I think the bottom is easier to identify than people think.

The middle class makes up the largest majority of home buyers. When the middle class can actually afford an average home, we have a bottom.

I’ve heard and read too many stories, myself included, where people making 6 figure incomes cannot get into a STARTER home.

So if you break the numbers down, a 100k combined family income (ie middle class-upper middle class) = 6k per month after taxes. currently the median sale is at 420. thats a good sign because it means that the mortgage payment is falling in line with a middle class wage.

I think we’re still off on the median sale price by a good 50k, so look for the median to hit mid 300’s on an average home in socal, before we officially have a bottom.

Remember as well that banks are requiring about 10 percent down with good credit, and the middle class will be hard pressed to come up with anything more than 5 percent these days.

The bottom will be hit this year, but it will sit at bottom for a very long time. what we are seeing is a return to the fundamentals that make average living in socal sustainable.

[Anonymous]

I think the bottom is easier to identify than people think.

The middle class makes up the largest majority of home buyers. When the middle class can actually afford an average home, we have a bottom.

I’ve heard and read too many stories, myself included, where people making 6 figure incomes cannot get into a STARTER home.

So if you break the numbers down, a 100k combined family income (ie middle class-upper middle class) = 6k per month after taxes. currently the median sale is at 420. thats a good sign because it means that the mortgage payment is falling in line with a middle class wage.

I think we’re still off on the median sale price by a good 50k, so look for the median to hit mid 300’s on an average home in socal, before we officially have a bottom.

Remember as well that banks are requiring about 10 percent down with good credit, and the middle class will be hard pressed to come up with anything more than 5 percent these days.

The bottom will be hit this year, but it will sit at bottom for a very long time. what we are seeing is a return to the fundamentals that make average living in socal sustainable.

[Anonymous]

I think the bottom is easier to identify than people think.

The middle class makes up the largest majority of home buyers. When the middle class can actually afford an average home, we have a bottom.

I’ve heard and read too many stories, myself included, where people making 6 figure incomes cannot get into a STARTER home.

So if you break the numbers down, a 100k combined family income (ie middle class-upper middle class) = 6k per month after taxes. currently the median sale is at 420. thats a good sign because it means that the mortgage payment is falling in line with a middle class wage.

I think we’re still off on the median sale price by a good 50k, so look for the median to hit mid 300’s on an average home in socal, before we officially have a bottom.

Remember as well that banks are requiring about 10 percent down with good credit, and the middle class will be hard pressed to come up with anything more than 5 percent these days.

The bottom will be hit this year, but it will sit at bottom for a very long time. what we are seeing is a return to the fundamentals that make average living in socal sustainable.

[Anonymous]

I think the bottom is easier to identify than people think.

The middle class makes up the largest majority of home buyers. When the middle class can actually afford an average home, we have a bottom.

I’ve heard and read too many stories, myself included, where people making 6 figure incomes cannot get into a STARTER home.

So if you break the numbers down, a 100k combined family income (ie middle class-upper middle class) = 6k per month after taxes. currently the median sale is at 420. thats a good sign because it means that the mortgage payment is falling in line with a middle class wage.

I think we’re still off on the median sale price by a good 50k, so look for the median to hit mid 300’s on an average home in socal, before we officially have a bottom.

Remember as well that banks are requiring about 10 percent down with good credit, and the middle class will be hard pressed to come up with anything more than 5 percent these days.

The bottom will be hit this year, but it will sit at bottom for a very long time. what we are seeing is a return to the fundamentals that make average living in socal sustainable.

[Anonymous]

I think the bottom is easier to identify than people think.

The middle class makes up the largest majority of home buyers. When the middle class can actually afford an average home, we have a bottom.

I’ve heard and read too many stories, myself included, where people making 6 figure incomes cannot get into a STARTER home.

So if you break the numbers down, a 100k combined family income (ie middle class-upper middle class) = 6k per month after taxes. currently the median sale is at 420. thats a good sign because it means that the mortgage payment is falling in line with a middle class wage.

I think we’re still off on the median sale price by a good 50k, so look for the median to hit mid 300’s on an average home in socal, before we officially have a bottom.

Remember as well that banks are requiring about 10 percent down with good credit, and the middle class will be hard pressed to come up with anything more than 5 percent these days.

The bottom will be hit this year, but it will sit at bottom for a very long time. what we are seeing is a return to the fundamentals that make average living in socal sustainable.

[Aecetia]

According to RatherOpinionated on December 2006, this is what it will look like:

“Timing the Bottom
User Forum Topic
Submitted by RatherOpinionated on December 6, 2007 – 10:15am.
Rich,
the same way you know that buying CFC or FNM or FRE or C for any of your clients is one of the smartest things you’ll do all year. Markets go to extremes and get extremely oversold or overbought well before the bottom is ever identified. By the time you “know” you’ve hit bottom, it is already too late.
For example, Countrywide stock with rumors of bankruptcy etc. hit a low of 8.21 recently. Well, it’s trading at 11.49 right now – that’s a 40% bounce. Had you waited for “confirmation” of a bottom or that all their bad news was behind them – you would still be waiting and made nothing. I also recognize you can’t be the one to buy at 8.21, but if you bought anywhere under $10/share, based on knowing there is too much BAD news out there for the thing to be priced correctly, you would still be sitting on a great return.
I’d take this same philosophy to REO’s and the Real Estate market. Everyone KNOWS there are months of inventory and the pipelines are growing, they KNOW there are a bunch of REO’s that haven’t even hit the market yet – and simply because EVERYONE ALREADY KNOWS, the current prices are reflecting that already. “Efficient Market” – I’m sure you remember that from your Series 7 exam last year.
Oh, and what isn’t “priced in” yet is all the ways our nifty government will come to the rescue of lenders and borrowers. This should help support the market as well.
This is fun….”

I wonder if this is fun now?

[Aecetia]

According to RatherOpinionated on December 2006, this is what it will look like:

“Timing the Bottom
User Forum Topic
Submitted by RatherOpinionated on December 6, 2007 – 10:15am.
Rich,
the same way you know that buying CFC or FNM or FRE or C for any of your clients is one of the smartest things you’ll do all year. Markets go to extremes and get extremely oversold or overbought well before the bottom is ever identified. By the time you “know” you’ve hit bottom, it is already too late.
For example, Countrywide stock with rumors of bankruptcy etc. hit a low of 8.21 recently. Well, it’s trading at 11.49 right now – that’s a 40% bounce. Had you waited for “confirmation” of a bottom or that all their bad news was behind them – you would still be waiting and made nothing. I also recognize you can’t be the one to buy at 8.21, but if you bought anywhere under $10/share, based on knowing there is too much BAD news out there for the thing to be priced correctly, you would still be sitting on a great return.
I’d take this same philosophy to REO’s and the Real Estate market. Everyone KNOWS there are months of inventory and the pipelines are growing, they KNOW there are a bunch of REO’s that haven’t even hit the market yet – and simply because EVERYONE ALREADY KNOWS, the current prices are reflecting that already. “Efficient Market” – I’m sure you remember that from your Series 7 exam last year.
Oh, and what isn’t “priced in” yet is all the ways our nifty government will come to the rescue of lenders and borrowers. This should help support the market as well.
This is fun….”

I wonder if this is fun now?

[Aecetia]

According to RatherOpinionated on December 2006, this is what it will look like:

“Timing the Bottom
User Forum Topic
Submitted by RatherOpinionated on December 6, 2007 – 10:15am.
Rich,
the same way you know that buying CFC or FNM or FRE or C for any of your clients is one of the smartest things you’ll do all year. Markets go to extremes and get extremely oversold or overbought well before the bottom is ever identified. By the time you “know” you’ve hit bottom, it is already too late.
For example, Countrywide stock with rumors of bankruptcy etc. hit a low of 8.21 recently. Well, it’s trading at 11.49 right now – that’s a 40% bounce. Had you waited for “confirmation” of a bottom or that all their bad news was behind them – you would still be waiting and made nothing. I also recognize you can’t be the one to buy at 8.21, but if you bought anywhere under $10/share, based on knowing there is too much BAD news out there for the thing to be priced correctly, you would still be sitting on a great return.
I’d take this same philosophy to REO’s and the Real Estate market. Everyone KNOWS there are months of inventory and the pipelines are growing, they KNOW there are a bunch of REO’s that haven’t even hit the market yet – and simply because EVERYONE ALREADY KNOWS, the current prices are reflecting that already. “Efficient Market” – I’m sure you remember that from your Series 7 exam last year.
Oh, and what isn’t “priced in” yet is all the ways our nifty government will come to the rescue of lenders and borrowers. This should help support the market as well.
This is fun….”

I wonder if this is fun now?

[Aecetia]

According to RatherOpinionated on December 2006, this is what it will look like:

“Timing the Bottom
User Forum Topic
Submitted by RatherOpinionated on December 6, 2007 – 10:15am.
Rich,
the same way you know that buying CFC or FNM or FRE or C for any of your clients is one of the smartest things you’ll do all year. Markets go to extremes and get extremely oversold or overbought well before the bottom is ever identified. By the time you “know” you’ve hit bottom, it is already too late.
For example, Countrywide stock with rumors of bankruptcy etc. hit a low of 8.21 recently. Well, it’s trading at 11.49 right now – that’s a 40% bounce. Had you waited for “confirmation” of a bottom or that all their bad news was behind them – you would still be waiting and made nothing. I also recognize you can’t be the one to buy at 8.21, but if you bought anywhere under $10/share, based on knowing there is too much BAD news out there for the thing to be priced correctly, you would still be sitting on a great return.
I’d take this same philosophy to REO’s and the Real Estate market. Everyone KNOWS there are months of inventory and the pipelines are growing, they KNOW there are a bunch of REO’s that haven’t even hit the market yet – and simply because EVERYONE ALREADY KNOWS, the current prices are reflecting that already. “Efficient Market” – I’m sure you remember that from your Series 7 exam last year.
Oh, and what isn’t “priced in” yet is all the ways our nifty government will come to the rescue of lenders and borrowers. This should help support the market as well.
This is fun….”

I wonder if this is fun now?

[cr]

You’ll know it’s the bottom when the NAR reports bad news about housing.

[cr]

You’ll know it’s the bottom when the NAR reports bad news about housing.

[cr]

You’ll know it’s the bottom when the NAR reports bad news about housing.

[cr]

You’ll know it’s the bottom when the NAR reports bad news about housing.

[hipmatt]

You won’t know the bottom until after it has happened. That being said it is still a long way off. We have these stupid threads about if the bottom is just around the corner every month.

I suggest everyone wondering about “botttoms” go read Rich’s primers and take a look at his charts to get and idea of how the typical housing correction runs its course. That also being said, this wasn’t the typical housing boom, it was the largest housing boom in US and probably world history. I suspect it may take longer to correct or to bottom than smaller booms did the in past 40 years. And we are facing even tougher economic problems now than in previous corrections. It will be amazing/miraculous if we can avoid a recession, and a recession will only prolong and amplify any housing crash. Also the inventory levels need to drop DRAMATICALLY before even thinking about the bottom. Inventory will be the best indicator of future housing prices. Right now the massive inventory guarantees lower home prices to come. There is no shortage of housing, there is a huge shortage of qualified buyers. My guess has always been and still is sometime around 2011 or so, obviously this is a guess and I think that if anything, later than that is more likely than sooner.

[hipmatt]

You won’t know the bottom until after it has happened. That being said it is still a long way off. We have these stupid threads about if the bottom is just around the corner every month.

I suggest everyone wondering about “botttoms” go read Rich’s primers and take a look at his charts to get and idea of how the typical housing correction runs its course. That also being said, this wasn’t the typical housing boom, it was the largest housing boom in US and probably world history. I suspect it may take longer to correct or to bottom than smaller booms did the in past 40 years. And we are facing even tougher economic problems now than in previous corrections. It will be amazing/miraculous if we can avoid a recession, and a recession will only prolong and amplify any housing crash. Also the inventory levels need to drop DRAMATICALLY before even thinking about the bottom. Inventory will be the best indicator of future housing prices. Right now the massive inventory guarantees lower home prices to come. There is no shortage of housing, there is a huge shortage of qualified buyers. My guess has always been and still is sometime around 2011 or so, obviously this is a guess and I think that if anything, later than that is more likely than sooner.

[hipmatt]

You won’t know the bottom until after it has happened. That being said it is still a long way off. We have these stupid threads about if the bottom is just around the corner every month.

I suggest everyone wondering about “botttoms” go read Rich’s primers and take a look at his charts to get and idea of how the typical housing correction runs its course. That also being said, this wasn’t the typical housing boom, it was the largest housing boom in US and probably world history. I suspect it may take longer to correct or to bottom than smaller booms did the in past 40 years. And we are facing even tougher economic problems now than in previous corrections. It will be amazing/miraculous if we can avoid a recession, and a recession will only prolong and amplify any housing crash. Also the inventory levels need to drop DRAMATICALLY before even thinking about the bottom. Inventory will be the best indicator of future housing prices. Right now the massive inventory guarantees lower home prices to come. There is no shortage of housing, there is a huge shortage of qualified buyers. My guess has always been and still is sometime around 2011 or so, obviously this is a guess and I think that if anything, later than that is more likely than sooner.

[hipmatt]

You won’t know the bottom until after it has happened. That being said it is still a long way off. We have these stupid threads about if the bottom is just around the corner every month.

I suggest everyone wondering about “botttoms” go read Rich’s primers and take a look at his charts to get and idea of how the typical housing correction runs its course. That also being said, this wasn’t the typical housing boom, it was the largest housing boom in US and probably world history. I suspect it may take longer to correct or to bottom than smaller booms did the in past 40 years. And we are facing even tougher economic problems now than in previous corrections. It will be amazing/miraculous if we can avoid a recession, and a recession will only prolong and amplify any housing crash. Also the inventory levels need to drop DRAMATICALLY before even thinking about the bottom. Inventory will be the best indicator of future housing prices. Right now the massive inventory guarantees lower home prices to come. There is no shortage of housing, there is a huge shortage of qualified buyers. My guess has always been and still is sometime around 2011 or so, obviously this is a guess and I think that if anything, later than that is more likely than sooner.

[mixxalot]

Bottom still not reached yet

I know the market is getting worse as I recently saw a friend of mine at church who happens to be a RE agent. She was trying to get me to buy a house and told me that soon all brokers and lenders will require a 20% down payment and good credit. No more funny money or numbers will be available. I told her politely thats fine as I am biding my time and putting money away for the down payment on a townhome and that the savings would be well worth it. Few Americans even save and live on credit so I know it will be good to buy in 3-5 years time.

[mixxalot]

Bottom still not reached yet

I know the market is getting worse as I recently saw a friend of mine at church who happens to be a RE agent. She was trying to get me to buy a house and told me that soon all brokers and lenders will require a 20% down payment and good credit. No more funny money or numbers will be available. I told her politely thats fine as I am biding my time and putting money away for the down payment on a townhome and that the savings would be well worth it. Few Americans even save and live on credit so I know it will be good to buy in 3-5 years time.

[mixxalot]

Bottom still not reached yet

I know the market is getting worse as I recently saw a friend of mine at church who happens to be a RE agent. She was trying to get me to buy a house and told me that soon all brokers and lenders will require a 20% down payment and good credit. No more funny money or numbers will be available. I told her politely thats fine as I am biding my time and putting money away for the down payment on a townhome and that the savings would be well worth it. Few Americans even save and live on credit so I know it will be good to buy in 3-5 years time.

[mixxalot]

Bottom still not reached yet

I know the market is getting worse as I recently saw a friend of mine at church who happens to be a RE agent. She was trying to get me to buy a house and told me that soon all brokers and lenders will require a 20% down payment and good credit. No more funny money or numbers will be available. I told her politely thats fine as I am biding my time and putting money away for the down payment on a townhome and that the savings would be well worth it. Few Americans even save and live on credit so I know it will be good to buy in 3-5 years time.

[Pasadena Broker]

Nice and round, hopefully firm if it’s been to the gym at least 3 times a week.

Giggity giggity giggity…oh yeah

Sorry, I know, serious topic, couldn’t resist the release of my inner Quagmire.

[hipmatt]

RatherOpinionated came back as iseedots… and hasn’t changed.

[Aecetia]

OK. I get it. Change your name when your posts prove to be incorrect. Thanks for the information.

[VoZangre]

Dow getting absolutely FLOGGED!

Jumpin Je-HAY-sus !!!

-306.95 or 2.46 %

yikes.

Voz

[betting on fall]

FYI- rather opinionated’s prize listing at Yokohama Ct. was marked down $20,000. Over 60 days have passed without anyone grabbing that incredible bargain. I guess we’re all idiots for passing it up.

back on topic. . . the bottom will not be near until the number of foreclosures drops dramatically and bank “non-performing assets” start falling. There will be no bottom until “must sell” inventory is too small to have a real impact on prices.

[betting on fall]

FYI- rather opinionated’s prize listing at Yokohama Ct. was marked down $20,000. Over 60 days have passed without anyone grabbing that incredible bargain. I guess we’re all idiots for passing it up.

back on topic. . . the bottom will not be near until the number of foreclosures drops dramatically and bank “non-performing assets” start falling. There will be no bottom until “must sell” inventory is too small to have a real impact on prices.

[betting on fall]

FYI- rather opinionated’s prize listing at Yokohama Ct. was marked down $20,000. Over 60 days have passed without anyone grabbing that incredible bargain. I guess we’re all idiots for passing it up.

back on topic. . . the bottom will not be near until the number of foreclosures drops dramatically and bank “non-performing assets” start falling. There will be no bottom until “must sell” inventory is too small to have a real impact on prices.

[betting on fall]

FYI- rather opinionated’s prize listing at Yokohama Ct. was marked down $20,000. Over 60 days have passed without anyone grabbing that incredible bargain. I guess we’re all idiots for passing it up.

back on topic. . . the bottom will not be near until the number of foreclosures drops dramatically and bank “non-performing assets” start falling. There will be no bottom until “must sell” inventory is too small to have a real impact on prices.

[betting on fall]

FYI- rather opinionated’s prize listing at Yokohama Ct. was marked down $20,000. Over 60 days have passed without anyone grabbing that incredible bargain. I guess we’re all idiots for passing it up.

back on topic. . . the bottom will not be near until the number of foreclosures drops dramatically and bank “non-performing assets” start falling. There will be no bottom until “must sell” inventory is too small to have a real impact on prices.

[VoZangre]

Dow getting absolutely FLOGGED!

Jumpin Je-HAY-sus !!!

-306.95 or 2.46 %

yikes.

Voz

[VoZangre]

Dow getting absolutely FLOGGED!

Jumpin Je-HAY-sus !!!

-306.95 or 2.46 %

yikes.

Voz

[VoZangre]

Dow getting absolutely FLOGGED!

Jumpin Je-HAY-sus !!!

-306.95 or 2.46 %

yikes.

Voz

[VoZangre]

Dow getting absolutely FLOGGED!

Jumpin Je-HAY-sus !!!

-306.95 or 2.46 %

yikes.

Voz

[Aecetia]

OK. I get it. Change your name when your posts prove to be incorrect. Thanks for the information.

[Aecetia]

OK. I get it. Change your name when your posts prove to be incorrect. Thanks for the information.

[Aecetia]

OK. I get it. Change your name when your posts prove to be incorrect. Thanks for the information.

[Aecetia]

OK. I get it. Change your name when your posts prove to be incorrect. Thanks for the information.

[hipmatt]

RatherOpinionated came back as iseedots… and hasn’t changed.

[hipmatt]

RatherOpinionated came back as iseedots… and hasn’t changed.

[hipmatt]

RatherOpinionated came back as iseedots… and hasn’t changed.

[hipmatt]

RatherOpinionated came back as iseedots… and hasn’t changed.

[Pasadena Broker]

Nice and round, hopefully firm if it’s been to the gym at least 3 times a week.

Giggity giggity giggity…oh yeah

Sorry, I know, serious topic, couldn’t resist the release of my inner Quagmire.

[Pasadena Broker]

Nice and round, hopefully firm if it’s been to the gym at least 3 times a week.

Giggity giggity giggity…oh yeah

Sorry, I know, serious topic, couldn’t resist the release of my inner Quagmire.

[Pasadena Broker]

Nice and round, hopefully firm if it’s been to the gym at least 3 times a week.

Giggity giggity giggity…oh yeah

Sorry, I know, serious topic, couldn’t resist the release of my inner Quagmire.

[Pasadena Broker]

Nice and round, hopefully firm if it’s been to the gym at least 3 times a week.

Giggity giggity giggity…oh yeah

Sorry, I know, serious topic, couldn’t resist the release of my inner Quagmire.

[Fearful]

Long way from bottom, yet. Met a nice couple at an alumni event last night. “We’re renting in PB now, but will be looking to buy a house in the summer. Actually, maybe a condo, that we can rent out when we go to buy a house.” I told them my story about my landlord losing $1,400 a month on my house. They mumbled something about tax breaks.

Yeah, a long way from the bottom. When the gleam is gone from absolutley everyone’s eyes, that’s the bottom.

[Fearful]

Long way from bottom, yet. Met a nice couple at an alumni event last night. “We’re renting in PB now, but will be looking to buy a house in the summer. Actually, maybe a condo, that we can rent out when we go to buy a house.” I told them my story about my landlord losing $1,400 a month on my house. They mumbled something about tax breaks.

Yeah, a long way from the bottom. When the gleam is gone from absolutley everyone’s eyes, that’s the bottom.

[Fearful]

Long way from bottom, yet. Met a nice couple at an alumni event last night. “We’re renting in PB now, but will be looking to buy a house in the summer. Actually, maybe a condo, that we can rent out when we go to buy a house.” I told them my story about my landlord losing $1,400 a month on my house. They mumbled something about tax breaks.

Yeah, a long way from the bottom. When the gleam is gone from absolutley everyone’s eyes, that’s the bottom.

[Fearful]

Long way from bottom, yet. Met a nice couple at an alumni event last night. “We’re renting in PB now, but will be looking to buy a house in the summer. Actually, maybe a condo, that we can rent out when we go to buy a house.” I told them my story about my landlord losing $1,400 a month on my house. They mumbled something about tax breaks.

Yeah, a long way from the bottom. When the gleam is gone from absolutley everyone’s eyes, that’s the bottom.

[Fearful]

Long way from bottom, yet. Met a nice couple at an alumni event last night. “We’re renting in PB now, but will be looking to buy a house in the summer. Actually, maybe a condo, that we can rent out when we go to buy a house.” I told them my story about my landlord losing $1,400 a month on my house. They mumbled something about tax breaks.

Yeah, a long way from the bottom. When the gleam is gone from absolutley everyone’s eyes, that’s the bottom.

[patb]

Time runs cover story on how housing causes poverty and renting brings riches.

[patb]

Time runs cover story on how housing causes poverty and renting brings riches.

[patb]

Time runs cover story on how housing causes poverty and renting brings riches.

[patb]

Time runs cover story on how housing causes poverty and renting brings riches.

[patb]

Time runs cover story on how housing causes poverty and renting brings riches.

[Author]

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