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  • February 18, 2009 at 9:08 AM #349327
    scaredyclassic
    Participant

    perhaps someone shoudl come tot he defense of welfare queens. we use that term like it’s a bad thing. I remember reading somewhere that it’s actually better for the economy for some people to receive welfare than to glut up the employment market, that welfare is actually efficient. moreover, people on welfare have more time to commit to their families, since they don’t have to do the harried “drop teh kdis off at day care to go to a meaningless job” dance. perhaps if more people went on welfare we wouldnt be in the mess we’re in today. “productivity”, “consumption”, “profit”, all of these things may be way overrated. I’d be willing to admit im a welfare king because my student loans were somewhat subsidized, but I will continue to refuse to admit to being a welfare queen. it also seems a bit sexist to limit the discussion to welfare queens, and welfare king sounds a little weird, because we expect the welfarist to milk the system to feed the kids. The welfare king on the other hand, is a term I may have just coined. If anyone wants to print up t-shirts that say ‘WELFARE KING”, I will promise contractually here to buy one from the first seller, this contract binding on my heirs and assings, in perpetuity, non-assignable, backstaopped byt he taxpayers in the event of my bankruptcy or default…so just gimme the damn thing for free and lets call it even…

    February 18, 2009 at 9:08 AM #348762
    TheBreeze
    Participant

    [quote=sdnerd]From your stance, I am similar to a welfare queen because I took out a business loan from a bank without verifying if they had sufficient collateral to make the loan. Of course I paid back the entire loan, and all of it’s interest. And the government certainly had no qualms in taxing the crap out of myself and my company last year.
    [/quote]

    No, I was talking about whether you put up sufficient collateral. I doubt you did and that is because our banks are run on socialist foundations. If you had defaulted, would the bank have been able to get back its principal?

    And if you think you’re ‘success’ means anything, you should read the book Fooled By Randomness. For every ‘business person’ like yourself who gets lucky and doesn’t default, there are 9 who fail. Of course, the runners of ‘successful’ businesses always give all the credit to themselves and none of it to luck which likely played a large part in your ‘success’.

    February 18, 2009 at 9:08 AM #349080
    TheBreeze
    Participant

    [quote=sdnerd]From your stance, I am similar to a welfare queen because I took out a business loan from a bank without verifying if they had sufficient collateral to make the loan. Of course I paid back the entire loan, and all of it’s interest. And the government certainly had no qualms in taxing the crap out of myself and my company last year.
    [/quote]

    No, I was talking about whether you put up sufficient collateral. I doubt you did and that is because our banks are run on socialist foundations. If you had defaulted, would the bank have been able to get back its principal?

    And if you think you’re ‘success’ means anything, you should read the book Fooled By Randomness. For every ‘business person’ like yourself who gets lucky and doesn’t default, there are 9 who fail. Of course, the runners of ‘successful’ businesses always give all the credit to themselves and none of it to luck which likely played a large part in your ‘success’.

    February 18, 2009 at 9:08 AM #349199
    TheBreeze
    Participant

    [quote=sdnerd]From your stance, I am similar to a welfare queen because I took out a business loan from a bank without verifying if they had sufficient collateral to make the loan. Of course I paid back the entire loan, and all of it’s interest. And the government certainly had no qualms in taxing the crap out of myself and my company last year.
    [/quote]

    No, I was talking about whether you put up sufficient collateral. I doubt you did and that is because our banks are run on socialist foundations. If you had defaulted, would the bank have been able to get back its principal?

    And if you think you’re ‘success’ means anything, you should read the book Fooled By Randomness. For every ‘business person’ like yourself who gets lucky and doesn’t default, there are 9 who fail. Of course, the runners of ‘successful’ businesses always give all the credit to themselves and none of it to luck which likely played a large part in your ‘success’.

    February 18, 2009 at 9:08 AM #349231
    TheBreeze
    Participant

    [quote=sdnerd]From your stance, I am similar to a welfare queen because I took out a business loan from a bank without verifying if they had sufficient collateral to make the loan. Of course I paid back the entire loan, and all of it’s interest. And the government certainly had no qualms in taxing the crap out of myself and my company last year.
    [/quote]

    No, I was talking about whether you put up sufficient collateral. I doubt you did and that is because our banks are run on socialist foundations. If you had defaulted, would the bank have been able to get back its principal?

    And if you think you’re ‘success’ means anything, you should read the book Fooled By Randomness. For every ‘business person’ like yourself who gets lucky and doesn’t default, there are 9 who fail. Of course, the runners of ‘successful’ businesses always give all the credit to themselves and none of it to luck which likely played a large part in your ‘success’.

    February 18, 2009 at 9:08 AM #349333
    TheBreeze
    Participant

    [quote=sdnerd]From your stance, I am similar to a welfare queen because I took out a business loan from a bank without verifying if they had sufficient collateral to make the loan. Of course I paid back the entire loan, and all of it’s interest. And the government certainly had no qualms in taxing the crap out of myself and my company last year.
    [/quote]

    No, I was talking about whether you put up sufficient collateral. I doubt you did and that is because our banks are run on socialist foundations. If you had defaulted, would the bank have been able to get back its principal?

    And if you think you’re ‘success’ means anything, you should read the book Fooled By Randomness. For every ‘business person’ like yourself who gets lucky and doesn’t default, there are 9 who fail. Of course, the runners of ‘successful’ businesses always give all the credit to themselves and none of it to luck which likely played a large part in your ‘success’.

    February 18, 2009 at 9:25 AM #348787
    scaredyclassic
    Participant

    i was happier when i was younger, broke and clueless about money.

    February 18, 2009 at 9:25 AM #349105
    scaredyclassic
    Participant

    i was happier when i was younger, broke and clueless about money.

    February 18, 2009 at 9:25 AM #349224
    scaredyclassic
    Participant

    i was happier when i was younger, broke and clueless about money.

    February 18, 2009 at 9:25 AM #349257
    scaredyclassic
    Participant

    i was happier when i was younger, broke and clueless about money.

    February 18, 2009 at 9:25 AM #349357
    scaredyclassic
    Participant

    i was happier when i was younger, broke and clueless about money.

    February 18, 2009 at 9:34 AM #348802
    sdnerd
    Participant

    [quote=ibjames]you guys are missing the point.. he’s not a FB.. he’s a guy that can afford his house, but now he sees other houses that are bigger and better, and NOW wants to get a loan mod because his house is even cheaper.

    He’s not under financial duress.. he hasn’t lost his job, nothing.. he is looking and seeing the grass is greener and is willing to just dump his house so he can get a bigger house

    If I remember correctly, it’s even cheaper than the rent he was paying at that time, he can afford it, he just wants something better now.

    Which is just PURE greed[/quote]

    I think this is the part where each individuals morals come in to play. This will be different for everyone.

    At the end of the day, the agreement he entered into is what it is. It’s legally his option should he attempt to re-negotiate while the opportunity presents itself.

    I can pay all my suppliers and vendors, and I’m not under any financial distress. But I sure as hell am going to push to re-negotiate every single business contract I’m under to bring it at least close to today’s market rates. They will lower their prices, or someone else will get my business. If it’s a valued partner, or someone I want to help keep in business then I’d be willing to pay more. These are all my choices.

    The moral difference between the two is dependent on the individual.

    February 18, 2009 at 9:34 AM #349120
    sdnerd
    Participant

    [quote=ibjames]you guys are missing the point.. he’s not a FB.. he’s a guy that can afford his house, but now he sees other houses that are bigger and better, and NOW wants to get a loan mod because his house is even cheaper.

    He’s not under financial duress.. he hasn’t lost his job, nothing.. he is looking and seeing the grass is greener and is willing to just dump his house so he can get a bigger house

    If I remember correctly, it’s even cheaper than the rent he was paying at that time, he can afford it, he just wants something better now.

    Which is just PURE greed[/quote]

    I think this is the part where each individuals morals come in to play. This will be different for everyone.

    At the end of the day, the agreement he entered into is what it is. It’s legally his option should he attempt to re-negotiate while the opportunity presents itself.

    I can pay all my suppliers and vendors, and I’m not under any financial distress. But I sure as hell am going to push to re-negotiate every single business contract I’m under to bring it at least close to today’s market rates. They will lower their prices, or someone else will get my business. If it’s a valued partner, or someone I want to help keep in business then I’d be willing to pay more. These are all my choices.

    The moral difference between the two is dependent on the individual.

    February 18, 2009 at 9:34 AM #349239
    sdnerd
    Participant

    [quote=ibjames]you guys are missing the point.. he’s not a FB.. he’s a guy that can afford his house, but now he sees other houses that are bigger and better, and NOW wants to get a loan mod because his house is even cheaper.

    He’s not under financial duress.. he hasn’t lost his job, nothing.. he is looking and seeing the grass is greener and is willing to just dump his house so he can get a bigger house

    If I remember correctly, it’s even cheaper than the rent he was paying at that time, he can afford it, he just wants something better now.

    Which is just PURE greed[/quote]

    I think this is the part where each individuals morals come in to play. This will be different for everyone.

    At the end of the day, the agreement he entered into is what it is. It’s legally his option should he attempt to re-negotiate while the opportunity presents itself.

    I can pay all my suppliers and vendors, and I’m not under any financial distress. But I sure as hell am going to push to re-negotiate every single business contract I’m under to bring it at least close to today’s market rates. They will lower their prices, or someone else will get my business. If it’s a valued partner, or someone I want to help keep in business then I’d be willing to pay more. These are all my choices.

    The moral difference between the two is dependent on the individual.

    February 18, 2009 at 9:34 AM #349273
    sdnerd
    Participant

    [quote=ibjames]you guys are missing the point.. he’s not a FB.. he’s a guy that can afford his house, but now he sees other houses that are bigger and better, and NOW wants to get a loan mod because his house is even cheaper.

    He’s not under financial duress.. he hasn’t lost his job, nothing.. he is looking and seeing the grass is greener and is willing to just dump his house so he can get a bigger house

    If I remember correctly, it’s even cheaper than the rent he was paying at that time, he can afford it, he just wants something better now.

    Which is just PURE greed[/quote]

    I think this is the part where each individuals morals come in to play. This will be different for everyone.

    At the end of the day, the agreement he entered into is what it is. It’s legally his option should he attempt to re-negotiate while the opportunity presents itself.

    I can pay all my suppliers and vendors, and I’m not under any financial distress. But I sure as hell am going to push to re-negotiate every single business contract I’m under to bring it at least close to today’s market rates. They will lower their prices, or someone else will get my business. If it’s a valued partner, or someone I want to help keep in business then I’d be willing to pay more. These are all my choices.

    The moral difference between the two is dependent on the individual.

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