Uber-Bear and proud of it

[scaredyclassic]

My fellow americans. i am bearish on america and I am proud of it. i am in fact wishing for economic recession. I am wishing for a big deep major recession. I am not looking to buy a house on the cheap. I am only interested in everything slowing the heck down. i want people to eat less. Much much less. I think it would be good if we all skipped eating one day a week. I want people to consume less. I want people to live in small houses near where they work and the houses will be empty of stuff. They will have a bed. A chair. A table. A few dishes. Some food. Not a lot of food. i want people to walk and ride bicycles. I want people to be happier. I want there to be less “work” and have them spend that time with their kids. I want people to be “poorer”. I want people to consume 1/10 as much petroleum as they do. i want people to grow some veggies in their neighborhood. i want a big national recession. i want people to have zero debt. I want people to work less. I want it to be rare for someone to ahve a car. Or a tv. I am not ashamed. I am a bear. I think this country will be better for it. I assume some of you will say this is dumb, this is “unworkable’ this will result in terrible things happening, that missing a day of eating will kill us all, that this is a fantasy and the world is the way it is and our country must grow or die. I don’t see it that way, but I’m oepn to others points of view…

[GoUSC]

Uber-bear? Sounds more like communist to me.

And bravo on wishing for a big deep major recession. That really turns out great for the people that lose their jobs.

Most of us want housing to better match incomes but that’s about where it stops. I find it amazing that some people actually WISH for a deep recession.

[scaredyclassic]

The more we “work” the more we destroy the earth. the more we consume the more we destroy the earth. The more we build the more we destroy the earth. Shrinking our carbon footprint involves receding. getting smaller. less is more. Not communist. minimalist. there will be other less destructive jobs. we cannot go on liek this forever. it is not sustainable. like housing prices.

Drink Heavily.

[patientlywaiting]

A worldwide one-child policy will achieve what you’re hoping for.

If the ultra right-wingers would support free birth-control in the developing world we wouldn’t have so many illegal aliens looking for jobs.

[GoUSC]

China has huge problems with the so-called one-child policy. It destroys the social fabric of a country, specifically those that have a strong family component to the society (aka China). In addition it leads to wide-spread infanticide. This leads to a huge demographic problem. By 2030 it is estimated that there will over 30 million more 20-30 year old men than women in China. That is a lot of frustrated youth that the government has no idea how to address.

Sorry, one child policy is not the answer.

[Ash Housewares]

People already have the choice of living as you describe. Isn’t it better to have the choice of living the lifestyle you prefer, rather than being forced to live a certain way?

[Ash Housewares]

People already have the choice of living as you describe. Isn’t it better to have the choice of living the lifestyle you prefer, rather than being forced to live a certain way?

[Ash Housewares]

People already have the choice of living as you describe. Isn’t it better to have the choice of living the lifestyle you prefer, rather than being forced to live a certain way?

[Ash Housewares]

People already have the choice of living as you describe. Isn’t it better to have the choice of living the lifestyle you prefer, rather than being forced to live a certain way?

[Ash Housewares]

People already have the choice of living as you describe. Isn’t it better to have the choice of living the lifestyle you prefer, rather than being forced to live a certain way?

[GoUSC]

China has huge problems with the so-called one-child policy. It destroys the social fabric of a country, specifically those that have a strong family component to the society (aka China). In addition it leads to wide-spread infanticide. This leads to a huge demographic problem. By 2030 it is estimated that there will over 30 million more 20-30 year old men than women in China. That is a lot of frustrated youth that the government has no idea how to address.

Sorry, one child policy is not the answer.

[GoUSC]

China has huge problems with the so-called one-child policy. It destroys the social fabric of a country, specifically those that have a strong family component to the society (aka China). In addition it leads to wide-spread infanticide. This leads to a huge demographic problem. By 2030 it is estimated that there will over 30 million more 20-30 year old men than women in China. That is a lot of frustrated youth that the government has no idea how to address.

Sorry, one child policy is not the answer.

[GoUSC]

China has huge problems with the so-called one-child policy. It destroys the social fabric of a country, specifically those that have a strong family component to the society (aka China). In addition it leads to wide-spread infanticide. This leads to a huge demographic problem. By 2030 it is estimated that there will over 30 million more 20-30 year old men than women in China. That is a lot of frustrated youth that the government has no idea how to address.

Sorry, one child policy is not the answer.

[GoUSC]

China has huge problems with the so-called one-child policy. It destroys the social fabric of a country, specifically those that have a strong family component to the society (aka China). In addition it leads to wide-spread infanticide. This leads to a huge demographic problem. By 2030 it is estimated that there will over 30 million more 20-30 year old men than women in China. That is a lot of frustrated youth that the government has no idea how to address.

Sorry, one child policy is not the answer.

[patientlywaiting]

A worldwide one-child policy will achieve what you’re hoping for.

If the ultra right-wingers would support free birth-control in the developing world we wouldn’t have so many illegal aliens looking for jobs.

[patientlywaiting]

A worldwide one-child policy will achieve what you’re hoping for.

If the ultra right-wingers would support free birth-control in the developing world we wouldn’t have so many illegal aliens looking for jobs.

[patientlywaiting]

A worldwide one-child policy will achieve what you’re hoping for.

If the ultra right-wingers would support free birth-control in the developing world we wouldn’t have so many illegal aliens looking for jobs.

[patientlywaiting]

A worldwide one-child policy will achieve what you’re hoping for.

If the ultra right-wingers would support free birth-control in the developing world we wouldn’t have so many illegal aliens looking for jobs.

[scaredyclassic]

The more we “work” the more we destroy the earth. the more we consume the more we destroy the earth. The more we build the more we destroy the earth. Shrinking our carbon footprint involves receding. getting smaller. less is more. Not communist. minimalist. there will be other less destructive jobs. we cannot go on liek this forever. it is not sustainable. like housing prices.

Drink Heavily.

[scaredyclassic]

The more we “work” the more we destroy the earth. the more we consume the more we destroy the earth. The more we build the more we destroy the earth. Shrinking our carbon footprint involves receding. getting smaller. less is more. Not communist. minimalist. there will be other less destructive jobs. we cannot go on liek this forever. it is not sustainable. like housing prices.

Drink Heavily.

[scaredyclassic]

The more we “work” the more we destroy the earth. the more we consume the more we destroy the earth. The more we build the more we destroy the earth. Shrinking our carbon footprint involves receding. getting smaller. less is more. Not communist. minimalist. there will be other less destructive jobs. we cannot go on liek this forever. it is not sustainable. like housing prices.

Drink Heavily.

[scaredyclassic]

The more we “work” the more we destroy the earth. the more we consume the more we destroy the earth. The more we build the more we destroy the earth. Shrinking our carbon footprint involves receding. getting smaller. less is more. Not communist. minimalist. there will be other less destructive jobs. we cannot go on liek this forever. it is not sustainable. like housing prices.

Drink Heavily.

[GoUSC]

Uber-bear? Sounds more like communist to me.

And bravo on wishing for a big deep major recession. That really turns out great for the people that lose their jobs.

Most of us want housing to better match incomes but that’s about where it stops. I find it amazing that some people actually WISH for a deep recession.

[GoUSC]

Uber-bear? Sounds more like communist to me.

And bravo on wishing for a big deep major recession. That really turns out great for the people that lose their jobs.

Most of us want housing to better match incomes but that’s about where it stops. I find it amazing that some people actually WISH for a deep recession.

[GoUSC]

Uber-bear? Sounds more like communist to me.

And bravo on wishing for a big deep major recession. That really turns out great for the people that lose their jobs.

Most of us want housing to better match incomes but that’s about where it stops. I find it amazing that some people actually WISH for a deep recession.

[GoUSC]

Uber-bear? Sounds more like communist to me.

And bravo on wishing for a big deep major recession. That really turns out great for the people that lose their jobs.

Most of us want housing to better match incomes but that’s about where it stops. I find it amazing that some people actually WISH for a deep recession.

[scaredyclassic]

well, no one really cares what i (or any of us want)…but that doesn’t stop me from thinking i know what i want. and you. I’m not particularly interested in less people. i’m more interested in less desire. For more house. more space. more of everything. falling house prices is good. might incentivize buidlers to build smaller houses. might encourage less consumption. if we earn less, and consume less, we might be better off. I suppose in a sense, “reproducing” is the ultimate consumption, in that we consume reosurces through others (that is, our offspring). course, we dont need an official govt policy for one kid. just have it make economic sense…too late for those of us who have a buncha kids. like me…

Drink Heavily.

[scaredyclassic]

someone posted; People already have the choice of living as you describe. Isn’t it better to have the choice of living the lifestyle you prefer, rather than being forced to live a certain way?

no. because your choices affect me. Like, i would liek to have some air and water left. I would like not to have the globe heated up beyond liveability. The whole world cannot live in 3000 square foot air conditioned homes. so whys hould you? or me? what si the true cost of it all. the cost of a housing boom is more than just the economic cost. what about all that land destroyed. I was hiking in an area that was “wild” and then hal f of it got cleared and graded. it made me wanna cry. and you know what, those graded lots will probably just freaking sit there. sadness. what si the global cost of this ‘lifestyle we prefer”…im too drunk to contnue…

Drink Heavily.

[Ash Housewares]

Maybe if I got drunk too I could understand your point…sounds like you want us to all move to communes and sing kumbaya all day.

[Ash Housewares]

Maybe if I got drunk too I could understand your point…sounds like you want us to all move to communes and sing kumbaya all day.

[Ash Housewares]

Maybe if I got drunk too I could understand your point…sounds like you want us to all move to communes and sing kumbaya all day.

[Ash Housewares]

Maybe if I got drunk too I could understand your point…sounds like you want us to all move to communes and sing kumbaya all day.

[Ash Housewares]

Maybe if I got drunk too I could understand your point…sounds like you want us to all move to communes and sing kumbaya all day.

[Ricechex]

I don’t wish for a recession. However, I must agree with you–consumption is out of control. It is really sad. I remember the clearing of a some wild land in Ohio, for a gigantic mall. All the little rabbits and other wildlife were seen roaming looking for food and where to be. They were constantly getting run over. In SD, for a time, there were lots of coyotes coming up from the canyon looking for food. I felt really sad, but I knew better than feeding wildlife, creates dependency. I have seen the Redwoods in Northern CA just disappear over time. They leave some by the side of the road, so you don’t know that they have cut them down to nothing behind the road. It is really sad.

I hate when whales wash up on our beaches. Sometimes they are hurt or indirectly poisoned by the dirty waters. The Navy uses sonar which destroys dolphins. I was at Mission Bay this summer jetskiing (which goes against my grain so I was being a hypocrite and felt bad the whole time) and saw a sea lion on a buoy with something around its neck. It was gradually being strangled to death. I had my friend get the cell phone out and I called Sea World. I doubt that anything happenned. It took all of me to be a good sport and not cry and ruin the day. But, I cried later when I got home.

Yes, the planet won’t be able to take much more. I think living conservatively is better for us all. Oh, and I can’t stand Hummers.

[4plexowner]

put me in the ‘hoping for a depression’ camp (yes, that’s depression, not recession)

the way I see it, there is at least $450 trillion dollars worth of derivative paper that has to be marked to its true value of zero – since people with a vested interest in the status quo are going to fight this massive loss of ‘wealth’ with every tool at their disposal, the re-pricing will take much longer than it should (see Japan for a case study)

all of this paper ‘wealth’ and the financial games that it enables will end because they aren’t based on any fundamental economic activity (like making a product or providing a service) – this derivative paper is like $450+ trillion dollars worth of free lunch floating around the planet only there is a problem: FREE LUNCH DOESN’T EXIST!!!

We could write all of this paper down to zero value overnight but that still wouldn’t get us back to a healthy economy because we wouldn’t have done anything to change people’s behavior or attitudes

It is going to take years to change the attitudes and values of the current American consumer – a shallow recession isn’t going to do the trick – Americans are so out of touch these days that most of them won’t even be aware we are in a recession unless some contestant on American Idol happens to mention it in passing

believe it or not, I am an optimist and believe that the future is bright for human beings – I am also a realist (engineer by birth and training) and this is how I see the world currently

call me an uber-bear if you want – reality only sucks if you choose to perceive it that way

~

Here’s Brian Bloom with some thoughts along the same lines:
http://www.321gold.com/editorials/bloom/bloom120307.html

Personally, I am cheering for gold because I believe that a meaningful rise in its price will signal the end of an era of selfishness, callous disregard for others and for our environment. It will represent the end of an era of political rule by people who are not fit to call themselves the leaders of society – not because they lack the ability, but because they are generally devoid of wisdom, empathy, respect and love for the people whose interests they are supposed to be representing.

To me, the glass is half full. I see change coming. It will be painful, but it will lead to better things as our values become appropriately prioritised. I see us moving out of the testosterone addled Neanderthal era, and towards a new era where we care more about the consequences of our selfish actions.

[Chris Scoreboard Johnston]

I feel sorry for people like you.

[sdrealtor]

It must be very painful living such an unhappy existence. My I suggest LexaPro?

[(former)FormerSanDiegan]

Did someone accidentally grant Ted Kaczynski web access ?

[patientlywaiting]

Reproducing like rabbits is certainly not responsible.

If we only replace ourselves, then our kids will never have to worry about housing. They can just trade what they inherit among themselves.

Imagine everyone on the planet living a in a 3000sf house!

A new person creates a huge carbon footprint. Aren’t we thinking about carbon taxes?

[NotCranky]

There are different reason for having kids than being rodent like. Both my wife and I are isolated from our extended families, I never met any of my cousins, ect.ect. We are “old” parents and didn’t want to leave our kids without family. Yes we have friends ALMOST as close as family…but they are not family. We have 3 great boys. I would not have minded one more. Each of their bedrooms is 3000 sf.

I hear what you all are saying on the austerity side of the argument. I also think that most of us are going to live somewhere in line with the standard parameters for our geographical situations. IMO there are some good, or at least acceptable reasons for that as well as the negatives.
A depression concerns me but I don’t fight it with entitlement theories. That does seem selfish.

[NotCranky]

There are different reason for having kids than being rodent like. Both my wife and I are isolated from our extended families, I never met any of my cousins, ect.ect. We are “old” parents and didn’t want to leave our kids without family. Yes we have friends ALMOST as close as family…but they are not family. We have 3 great boys. I would not have minded one more. Each of their bedrooms is 3000 sf.

I hear what you all are saying on the austerity side of the argument. I also think that most of us are going to live somewhere in line with the standard parameters for our geographical situations. IMO there are some good, or at least acceptable reasons for that as well as the negatives.
A depression concerns me but I don’t fight it with entitlement theories. That does seem selfish.

[NotCranky]

There are different reason for having kids than being rodent like. Both my wife and I are isolated from our extended families, I never met any of my cousins, ect.ect. We are “old” parents and didn’t want to leave our kids without family. Yes we have friends ALMOST as close as family…but they are not family. We have 3 great boys. I would not have minded one more. Each of their bedrooms is 3000 sf.

I hear what you all are saying on the austerity side of the argument. I also think that most of us are going to live somewhere in line with the standard parameters for our geographical situations. IMO there are some good, or at least acceptable reasons for that as well as the negatives.
A depression concerns me but I don’t fight it with entitlement theories. That does seem selfish.

[NotCranky]

There are different reason for having kids than being rodent like. Both my wife and I are isolated from our extended families, I never met any of my cousins, ect.ect. We are “old” parents and didn’t want to leave our kids without family. Yes we have friends ALMOST as close as family…but they are not family. We have 3 great boys. I would not have minded one more. Each of their bedrooms is 3000 sf.

I hear what you all are saying on the austerity side of the argument. I also think that most of us are going to live somewhere in line with the standard parameters for our geographical situations. IMO there are some good, or at least acceptable reasons for that as well as the negatives.
A depression concerns me but I don’t fight it with entitlement theories. That does seem selfish.

[NotCranky]

There are different reason for having kids than being rodent like. Both my wife and I are isolated from our extended families, I never met any of my cousins, ect.ect. We are “old” parents and didn’t want to leave our kids without family. Yes we have friends ALMOST as close as family…but they are not family. We have 3 great boys. I would not have minded one more. Each of their bedrooms is 3000 sf.

I hear what you all are saying on the austerity side of the argument. I also think that most of us are going to live somewhere in line with the standard parameters for our geographical situations. IMO there are some good, or at least acceptable reasons for that as well as the negatives.
A depression concerns me but I don’t fight it with entitlement theories. That does seem selfish.

[ibjames]

The reason China has so many men is because parents want a boy. Many have had girls and have killed them or disposed of them in some way so that the one child they have is a boy.

I doubt that would be a problem in the U.S. At times, I have thought that there should be some kind of cap related to income. Otherwise you cannot support your child. With the welfare system there would be caps on families etc. So if you did sneak around and have a child, your money wouldn’t raise, you would be putting your family in jeopardy.

Though, I would feel badly for a seal with something around it’s neck and it choking itself, I wouldn’t cry. In fact I would have probably followed through to make sure someone came to check the seal out though.

Skipping a day of food is a little drastic also. If anything, you should be yelling for something that is realistic. High standards for mileage/gallon for ALL vehicles for manufacturers. High standards on credit and reform on social programs. Now.. that is something to hope for. Not everyone wants to be living in log cabins and eating leaves and wearing hemp blankets.

[patientlywaiting]

Do you know who breed like rabbits? Men in the military.

They get married for the housing allowance. Then they reproduce for more allowance. I know a few like that.

I’m not being critical — just telling the truth.

Of course, the new immigrants reproduce like nuts too because they have no concept of birth-control, which they didn’t have in the developing world.

If only our government would support birth-control programs as part of foreign aid. Condoms and the pill should be available to everyone for free. We’re afraid of the radical Muslims? Why not give them family planning rather then kill them after they become adults?

[Navydoc]

"Do you know who breed like rabbits? Men in the military."

All I have to say is Thank God for that! (I'm a Navy obstetrician!) Seriously though, people in the military do NOT gat married for the housing allowance. You get your BAH (base allowance for housing) whether you're single or married, and it goes up maybe 30% when you get married, hardly an incentive alone to tie the knot. Also, the housing allowance stays the same no matter how many little ones you create, there is onle a distinction of BAH with and without dependents. The only advantage to having more chilren is for the tax advantages, which you get whether you have pledged to "support and defend the constitution against all enemies both foreign and domestic" or not. One last thing, before I forget, BAH is non-taxable (YES!!!) 

Sometimes suckling off the government teet isn't so bad. 

[Navydoc]

Oops, I think they call it VHA, variable housing allowance now, I joined up in 92.

[Ash Housewares]

Along the same lines, getting divorced is pretty bad for the environment.

http://environment.newscientist.com/article/dn12990-for-the-environments-sake-dont-get-divorced.html

A rising tide of divorce is taking a huge toll on the planet, warns a groundbreaking analysis of the environmental impact of divorce.

The environmental cost of a marriage splitting occurs because couples and their families move into separate properties after divorce – meaning they collectively occupy more space, burn more energy, and consume more water than they did as a family unit.

“Divorced households are smaller than married households, but consume more land, water, and energy per person than married households,” says Jianguo Liu of Michigan State University in East Lansing, US, who carried out the 12-country analysis with colleague Eunice Yu.

In the US, for example, 627 billion gallons of water, the use of 38 million rooms, and 734 billion kilowatt-hours of electricity would have been saved in 2005 alone if no-one had got divorced.

In the same year, divorced households spent 46% more on electricity and 56% more on water per person than if they had stayed married. And following a split, US households consumed 42 to 61% more resources per person than while married.
Staying together

And the problem is likely to get worse, warns Liu. Between 1970 and 2000, the proportion of households headed by divorcees soared from 5 to 15% of all US households. Divorces are also steadily increasing in China, note the authors, where divorce rates have traditionally been low.

“Divorce escalates consumption of increasingly limited resources,” the authors warn.

Liu urges governments to publicise the hitherto unanticipated environmental costs of divorce, and couples to consider the potential impacts of a divorce before going ahead.

He found that resource consumption shrank to what it had been originally if divorced couples remarry.

Journal reference: Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (DOI: 10.1073/pnas.0707267104)

[Ricechex]

Arraya–way to go. People need to stop being in denial, but I don’t suppose that will happen anytime soon. Oh, your video on Monkeys was brutal, and I liked it overall, but I really don’t like the comparison to monkeys. I like monkeys. They have been abused in research for years.

Patientlywaiting–it is NOT the men in the military that are breeding beyond control. I concur with Navydoc. I can only tell you from 12 years experience working with sailors and their families, that it just isn’t the case. Occasionally, I get a family that is on Navy Relief and keeps having kids. The majority of the families I see have 2-3 kids AT most. And, yes, the majority of my work is with the enlisted guys.

IMO, the problem is the illegal aliens (politically correct term is undocumented) over breeding. I see that every time I go to CVS. I also teach at a local University, and I don’t want to give out too much info here, BUT, I can tell you that the legal immigrants (students) aren’t putting out a ton of kids. They are socialized to the American way, and generally have 1-3 kids at most. Sometimes the students service families that are illegal, and these families ARE putting out a lot of kids. Here is a REAL case:

Case gets referred to due to a referral to Child Protective Services. Father has been illegal construction worker for 20 years. Mother is also illegal, been married to father for 20 years. She speaks NO English and does not work. Children ALL born in US. They have 6 children, in a clean, very small 2 bedroom house in Barrio Logan. One kid is involved in the Social Services system, another teen is involved in the Juvenile Justice System. They receive EBT and other services from the State.

Don’t see this kind of scenario with our sailors. Of course they are underway and deployed most of the time, so perhaps that is a factor. But my gut feeling is if they were home more, their families would be more stable, and I don’t see them making additional kids.

I don’t know the stats or research, I can ONLY tell you what I see.

[patientlywaiting]

Richchex, thanks for the feedback. I stand corrected.

When I go to Walmart, I see plenty of service personel with kids in tow. Almost teenagers having kids. I can’t imagine that there are many under 30 who are mature enough and responsible enough to raise children.

A guy who works for me has two sons who joined the military. They are barely 20 and parents already.

I wonder what the stats are.

[patientlywaiting]

Richchex, thanks for the feedback. I stand corrected.

When I go to Walmart, I see plenty of service personel with kids in tow. Almost teenagers having kids. I can’t imagine that there are many under 30 who are mature enough and responsible enough to raise children.

A guy who works for me has two sons who joined the military. They are barely 20 and parents already.

I wonder what the stats are.

[patientlywaiting]

Richchex, thanks for the feedback. I stand corrected.

When I go to Walmart, I see plenty of service personel with kids in tow. Almost teenagers having kids. I can’t imagine that there are many under 30 who are mature enough and responsible enough to raise children.

A guy who works for me has two sons who joined the military. They are barely 20 and parents already.

I wonder what the stats are.

[patientlywaiting]

Richchex, thanks for the feedback. I stand corrected.

When I go to Walmart, I see plenty of service personel with kids in tow. Almost teenagers having kids. I can’t imagine that there are many under 30 who are mature enough and responsible enough to raise children.

A guy who works for me has two sons who joined the military. They are barely 20 and parents already.

I wonder what the stats are.

[patientlywaiting]

Richchex, thanks for the feedback. I stand corrected.

When I go to Walmart, I see plenty of service personel with kids in tow. Almost teenagers having kids. I can’t imagine that there are many under 30 who are mature enough and responsible enough to raise children.

A guy who works for me has two sons who joined the military. They are barely 20 and parents already.

I wonder what the stats are.

[Ricechex]

Arraya–way to go. People need to stop being in denial, but I don’t suppose that will happen anytime soon. Oh, your video on Monkeys was brutal, and I liked it overall, but I really don’t like the comparison to monkeys. I like monkeys. They have been abused in research for years.

Patientlywaiting–it is NOT the men in the military that are breeding beyond control. I concur with Navydoc. I can only tell you from 12 years experience working with sailors and their families, that it just isn’t the case. Occasionally, I get a family that is on Navy Relief and keeps having kids. The majority of the families I see have 2-3 kids AT most. And, yes, the majority of my work is with the enlisted guys.

IMO, the problem is the illegal aliens (politically correct term is undocumented) over breeding. I see that every time I go to CVS. I also teach at a local University, and I don’t want to give out too much info here, BUT, I can tell you that the legal immigrants (students) aren’t putting out a ton of kids. They are socialized to the American way, and generally have 1-3 kids at most. Sometimes the students service families that are illegal, and these families ARE putting out a lot of kids. Here is a REAL case:

Case gets referred to due to a referral to Child Protective Services. Father has been illegal construction worker for 20 years. Mother is also illegal, been married to father for 20 years. She speaks NO English and does not work. Children ALL born in US. They have 6 children, in a clean, very small 2 bedroom house in Barrio Logan. One kid is involved in the Social Services system, another teen is involved in the Juvenile Justice System. They receive EBT and other services from the State.

Don’t see this kind of scenario with our sailors. Of course they are underway and deployed most of the time, so perhaps that is a factor. But my gut feeling is if they were home more, their families would be more stable, and I don’t see them making additional kids.

I don’t know the stats or research, I can ONLY tell you what I see.

[Ricechex]

Arraya–way to go. People need to stop being in denial, but I don’t suppose that will happen anytime soon. Oh, your video on Monkeys was brutal, and I liked it overall, but I really don’t like the comparison to monkeys. I like monkeys. They have been abused in research for years.

Patientlywaiting–it is NOT the men in the military that are breeding beyond control. I concur with Navydoc. I can only tell you from 12 years experience working with sailors and their families, that it just isn’t the case. Occasionally, I get a family that is on Navy Relief and keeps having kids. The majority of the families I see have 2-3 kids AT most. And, yes, the majority of my work is with the enlisted guys.

IMO, the problem is the illegal aliens (politically correct term is undocumented) over breeding. I see that every time I go to CVS. I also teach at a local University, and I don’t want to give out too much info here, BUT, I can tell you that the legal immigrants (students) aren’t putting out a ton of kids. They are socialized to the American way, and generally have 1-3 kids at most. Sometimes the students service families that are illegal, and these families ARE putting out a lot of kids. Here is a REAL case:

Case gets referred to due to a referral to Child Protective Services. Father has been illegal construction worker for 20 years. Mother is also illegal, been married to father for 20 years. She speaks NO English and does not work. Children ALL born in US. They have 6 children, in a clean, very small 2 bedroom house in Barrio Logan. One kid is involved in the Social Services system, another teen is involved in the Juvenile Justice System. They receive EBT and other services from the State.

Don’t see this kind of scenario with our sailors. Of course they are underway and deployed most of the time, so perhaps that is a factor. But my gut feeling is if they were home more, their families would be more stable, and I don’t see them making additional kids.

I don’t know the stats or research, I can ONLY tell you what I see.

[Ricechex]

Arraya–way to go. People need to stop being in denial, but I don’t suppose that will happen anytime soon. Oh, your video on Monkeys was brutal, and I liked it overall, but I really don’t like the comparison to monkeys. I like monkeys. They have been abused in research for years.

Patientlywaiting–it is NOT the men in the military that are breeding beyond control. I concur with Navydoc. I can only tell you from 12 years experience working with sailors and their families, that it just isn’t the case. Occasionally, I get a family that is on Navy Relief and keeps having kids. The majority of the families I see have 2-3 kids AT most. And, yes, the majority of my work is with the enlisted guys.

IMO, the problem is the illegal aliens (politically correct term is undocumented) over breeding. I see that every time I go to CVS. I also teach at a local University, and I don’t want to give out too much info here, BUT, I can tell you that the legal immigrants (students) aren’t putting out a ton of kids. They are socialized to the American way, and generally have 1-3 kids at most. Sometimes the students service families that are illegal, and these families ARE putting out a lot of kids. Here is a REAL case:

Case gets referred to due to a referral to Child Protective Services. Father has been illegal construction worker for 20 years. Mother is also illegal, been married to father for 20 years. She speaks NO English and does not work. Children ALL born in US. They have 6 children, in a clean, very small 2 bedroom house in Barrio Logan. One kid is involved in the Social Services system, another teen is involved in the Juvenile Justice System. They receive EBT and other services from the State.

Don’t see this kind of scenario with our sailors. Of course they are underway and deployed most of the time, so perhaps that is a factor. But my gut feeling is if they were home more, their families would be more stable, and I don’t see them making additional kids.

I don’t know the stats or research, I can ONLY tell you what I see.

[Ricechex]

Arraya–way to go. People need to stop being in denial, but I don’t suppose that will happen anytime soon. Oh, your video on Monkeys was brutal, and I liked it overall, but I really don’t like the comparison to monkeys. I like monkeys. They have been abused in research for years.

Patientlywaiting–it is NOT the men in the military that are breeding beyond control. I concur with Navydoc. I can only tell you from 12 years experience working with sailors and their families, that it just isn’t the case. Occasionally, I get a family that is on Navy Relief and keeps having kids. The majority of the families I see have 2-3 kids AT most. And, yes, the majority of my work is with the enlisted guys.

IMO, the problem is the illegal aliens (politically correct term is undocumented) over breeding. I see that every time I go to CVS. I also teach at a local University, and I don’t want to give out too much info here, BUT, I can tell you that the legal immigrants (students) aren’t putting out a ton of kids. They are socialized to the American way, and generally have 1-3 kids at most. Sometimes the students service families that are illegal, and these families ARE putting out a lot of kids. Here is a REAL case:

Case gets referred to due to a referral to Child Protective Services. Father has been illegal construction worker for 20 years. Mother is also illegal, been married to father for 20 years. She speaks NO English and does not work. Children ALL born in US. They have 6 children, in a clean, very small 2 bedroom house in Barrio Logan. One kid is involved in the Social Services system, another teen is involved in the Juvenile Justice System. They receive EBT and other services from the State.

Don’t see this kind of scenario with our sailors. Of course they are underway and deployed most of the time, so perhaps that is a factor. But my gut feeling is if they were home more, their families would be more stable, and I don’t see them making additional kids.

I don’t know the stats or research, I can ONLY tell you what I see.

[Ash Housewares]

Along the same lines, getting divorced is pretty bad for the environment.

http://environment.newscientist.com/article/dn12990-for-the-environments-sake-dont-get-divorced.html

A rising tide of divorce is taking a huge toll on the planet, warns a groundbreaking analysis of the environmental impact of divorce.

The environmental cost of a marriage splitting occurs because couples and their families move into separate properties after divorce – meaning they collectively occupy more space, burn more energy, and consume more water than they did as a family unit.

“Divorced households are smaller than married households, but consume more land, water, and energy per person than married households,” says Jianguo Liu of Michigan State University in East Lansing, US, who carried out the 12-country analysis with colleague Eunice Yu.

In the US, for example, 627 billion gallons of water, the use of 38 million rooms, and 734 billion kilowatt-hours of electricity would have been saved in 2005 alone if no-one had got divorced.

In the same year, divorced households spent 46% more on electricity and 56% more on water per person than if they had stayed married. And following a split, US households consumed 42 to 61% more resources per person than while married.
Staying together

And the problem is likely to get worse, warns Liu. Between 1970 and 2000, the proportion of households headed by divorcees soared from 5 to 15% of all US households. Divorces are also steadily increasing in China, note the authors, where divorce rates have traditionally been low.

“Divorce escalates consumption of increasingly limited resources,” the authors warn.

Liu urges governments to publicise the hitherto unanticipated environmental costs of divorce, and couples to consider the potential impacts of a divorce before going ahead.

He found that resource consumption shrank to what it had been originally if divorced couples remarry.

Journal reference: Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (DOI: 10.1073/pnas.0707267104)

[Ash Housewares]

Along the same lines, getting divorced is pretty bad for the environment.

http://environment.newscientist.com/article/dn12990-for-the-environments-sake-dont-get-divorced.html

A rising tide of divorce is taking a huge toll on the planet, warns a groundbreaking analysis of the environmental impact of divorce.

The environmental cost of a marriage splitting occurs because couples and their families move into separate properties after divorce – meaning they collectively occupy more space, burn more energy, and consume more water than they did as a family unit.

“Divorced households are smaller than married households, but consume more land, water, and energy per person than married households,” says Jianguo Liu of Michigan State University in East Lansing, US, who carried out the 12-country analysis with colleague Eunice Yu.

In the US, for example, 627 billion gallons of water, the use of 38 million rooms, and 734 billion kilowatt-hours of electricity would have been saved in 2005 alone if no-one had got divorced.

In the same year, divorced households spent 46% more on electricity and 56% more on water per person than if they had stayed married. And following a split, US households consumed 42 to 61% more resources per person than while married.
Staying together

And the problem is likely to get worse, warns Liu. Between 1970 and 2000, the proportion of households headed by divorcees soared from 5 to 15% of all US households. Divorces are also steadily increasing in China, note the authors, where divorce rates have traditionally been low.

“Divorce escalates consumption of increasingly limited resources,” the authors warn.

Liu urges governments to publicise the hitherto unanticipated environmental costs of divorce, and couples to consider the potential impacts of a divorce before going ahead.

He found that resource consumption shrank to what it had been originally if divorced couples remarry.

Journal reference: Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (DOI: 10.1073/pnas.0707267104)

[Ash Housewares]

Along the same lines, getting divorced is pretty bad for the environment.

http://environment.newscientist.com/article/dn12990-for-the-environments-sake-dont-get-divorced.html

A rising tide of divorce is taking a huge toll on the planet, warns a groundbreaking analysis of the environmental impact of divorce.

The environmental cost of a marriage splitting occurs because couples and their families move into separate properties after divorce – meaning they collectively occupy more space, burn more energy, and consume more water than they did as a family unit.

“Divorced households are smaller than married households, but consume more land, water, and energy per person than married households,” says Jianguo Liu of Michigan State University in East Lansing, US, who carried out the 12-country analysis with colleague Eunice Yu.

In the US, for example, 627 billion gallons of water, the use of 38 million rooms, and 734 billion kilowatt-hours of electricity would have been saved in 2005 alone if no-one had got divorced.

In the same year, divorced households spent 46% more on electricity and 56% more on water per person than if they had stayed married. And following a split, US households consumed 42 to 61% more resources per person than while married.
Staying together

And the problem is likely to get worse, warns Liu. Between 1970 and 2000, the proportion of households headed by divorcees soared from 5 to 15% of all US households. Divorces are also steadily increasing in China, note the authors, where divorce rates have traditionally been low.

“Divorce escalates consumption of increasingly limited resources,” the authors warn.

Liu urges governments to publicise the hitherto unanticipated environmental costs of divorce, and couples to consider the potential impacts of a divorce before going ahead.

He found that resource consumption shrank to what it had been originally if divorced couples remarry.

Journal reference: Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (DOI: 10.1073/pnas.0707267104)

[Ash Housewares]

Along the same lines, getting divorced is pretty bad for the environment.

http://environment.newscientist.com/article/dn12990-for-the-environments-sake-dont-get-divorced.html

A rising tide of divorce is taking a huge toll on the planet, warns a groundbreaking analysis of the environmental impact of divorce.

The environmental cost of a marriage splitting occurs because couples and their families move into separate properties after divorce – meaning they collectively occupy more space, burn more energy, and consume more water than they did as a family unit.

“Divorced households are smaller than married households, but consume more land, water, and energy per person than married households,” says Jianguo Liu of Michigan State University in East Lansing, US, who carried out the 12-country analysis with colleague Eunice Yu.

In the US, for example, 627 billion gallons of water, the use of 38 million rooms, and 734 billion kilowatt-hours of electricity would have been saved in 2005 alone if no-one had got divorced.

In the same year, divorced households spent 46% more on electricity and 56% more on water per person than if they had stayed married. And following a split, US households consumed 42 to 61% more resources per person than while married.
Staying together

And the problem is likely to get worse, warns Liu. Between 1970 and 2000, the proportion of households headed by divorcees soared from 5 to 15% of all US households. Divorces are also steadily increasing in China, note the authors, where divorce rates have traditionally been low.

“Divorce escalates consumption of increasingly limited resources,” the authors warn.

Liu urges governments to publicise the hitherto unanticipated environmental costs of divorce, and couples to consider the potential impacts of a divorce before going ahead.

He found that resource consumption shrank to what it had been originally if divorced couples remarry.

Journal reference: Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (DOI: 10.1073/pnas.0707267104)

[Navydoc]

Oops, I think they call it VHA, variable housing allowance now, I joined up in 92.

[Navydoc]

Oops, I think they call it VHA, variable housing allowance now, I joined up in 92.

[Navydoc]

Oops, I think they call it VHA, variable housing allowance now, I joined up in 92.

[Navydoc]

Oops, I think they call it VHA, variable housing allowance now, I joined up in 92.

[Navydoc]

"Do you know who breed like rabbits? Men in the military."

All I have to say is Thank God for that! (I'm a Navy obstetrician!) Seriously though, people in the military do NOT gat married for the housing allowance. You get your BAH (base allowance for housing) whether you're single or married, and it goes up maybe 30% when you get married, hardly an incentive alone to tie the knot. Also, the housing allowance stays the same no matter how many little ones you create, there is onle a distinction of BAH with and without dependents. The only advantage to having more chilren is for the tax advantages, which you get whether you have pledged to "support and defend the constitution against all enemies both foreign and domestic" or not. One last thing, before I forget, BAH is non-taxable (YES!!!) 

Sometimes suckling off the government teet isn't so bad. 

[Navydoc]

"Do you know who breed like rabbits? Men in the military."

All I have to say is Thank God for that! (I'm a Navy obstetrician!) Seriously though, people in the military do NOT gat married for the housing allowance. You get your BAH (base allowance for housing) whether you're single or married, and it goes up maybe 30% when you get married, hardly an incentive alone to tie the knot. Also, the housing allowance stays the same no matter how many little ones you create, there is onle a distinction of BAH with and without dependents. The only advantage to having more chilren is for the tax advantages, which you get whether you have pledged to "support and defend the constitution against all enemies both foreign and domestic" or not. One last thing, before I forget, BAH is non-taxable (YES!!!) 

Sometimes suckling off the government teet isn't so bad. 

[Navydoc]

"Do you know who breed like rabbits? Men in the military."

All I have to say is Thank God for that! (I'm a Navy obstetrician!) Seriously though, people in the military do NOT gat married for the housing allowance. You get your BAH (base allowance for housing) whether you're single or married, and it goes up maybe 30% when you get married, hardly an incentive alone to tie the knot. Also, the housing allowance stays the same no matter how many little ones you create, there is onle a distinction of BAH with and without dependents. The only advantage to having more chilren is for the tax advantages, which you get whether you have pledged to "support and defend the constitution against all enemies both foreign and domestic" or not. One last thing, before I forget, BAH is non-taxable (YES!!!) 

Sometimes suckling off the government teet isn't so bad. 

[Navydoc]

"Do you know who breed like rabbits? Men in the military."

All I have to say is Thank God for that! (I'm a Navy obstetrician!) Seriously though, people in the military do NOT gat married for the housing allowance. You get your BAH (base allowance for housing) whether you're single or married, and it goes up maybe 30% when you get married, hardly an incentive alone to tie the knot. Also, the housing allowance stays the same no matter how many little ones you create, there is onle a distinction of BAH with and without dependents. The only advantage to having more chilren is for the tax advantages, which you get whether you have pledged to "support and defend the constitution against all enemies both foreign and domestic" or not. One last thing, before I forget, BAH is non-taxable (YES!!!) 

Sometimes suckling off the government teet isn't so bad. 

[patientlywaiting]

Do you know who breed like rabbits? Men in the military.

They get married for the housing allowance. Then they reproduce for more allowance. I know a few like that.

I’m not being critical — just telling the truth.

Of course, the new immigrants reproduce like nuts too because they have no concept of birth-control, which they didn’t have in the developing world.

If only our government would support birth-control programs as part of foreign aid. Condoms and the pill should be available to everyone for free. We’re afraid of the radical Muslims? Why not give them family planning rather then kill them after they become adults?

[patientlywaiting]

Do you know who breed like rabbits? Men in the military.

They get married for the housing allowance. Then they reproduce for more allowance. I know a few like that.

I’m not being critical — just telling the truth.

Of course, the new immigrants reproduce like nuts too because they have no concept of birth-control, which they didn’t have in the developing world.

If only our government would support birth-control programs as part of foreign aid. Condoms and the pill should be available to everyone for free. We’re afraid of the radical Muslims? Why not give them family planning rather then kill them after they become adults?

[patientlywaiting]

Do you know who breed like rabbits? Men in the military.

They get married for the housing allowance. Then they reproduce for more allowance. I know a few like that.

I’m not being critical — just telling the truth.

Of course, the new immigrants reproduce like nuts too because they have no concept of birth-control, which they didn’t have in the developing world.

If only our government would support birth-control programs as part of foreign aid. Condoms and the pill should be available to everyone for free. We’re afraid of the radical Muslims? Why not give them family planning rather then kill them after they become adults?

[patientlywaiting]

Do you know who breed like rabbits? Men in the military.

They get married for the housing allowance. Then they reproduce for more allowance. I know a few like that.

I’m not being critical — just telling the truth.

Of course, the new immigrants reproduce like nuts too because they have no concept of birth-control, which they didn’t have in the developing world.

If only our government would support birth-control programs as part of foreign aid. Condoms and the pill should be available to everyone for free. We’re afraid of the radical Muslims? Why not give them family planning rather then kill them after they become adults?

[ibjames]

The reason China has so many men is because parents want a boy. Many have had girls and have killed them or disposed of them in some way so that the one child they have is a boy.

I doubt that would be a problem in the U.S. At times, I have thought that there should be some kind of cap related to income. Otherwise you cannot support your child. With the welfare system there would be caps on families etc. So if you did sneak around and have a child, your money wouldn’t raise, you would be putting your family in jeopardy.

Though, I would feel badly for a seal with something around it’s neck and it choking itself, I wouldn’t cry. In fact I would have probably followed through to make sure someone came to check the seal out though.

Skipping a day of food is a little drastic also. If anything, you should be yelling for something that is realistic. High standards for mileage/gallon for ALL vehicles for manufacturers. High standards on credit and reform on social programs. Now.. that is something to hope for. Not everyone wants to be living in log cabins and eating leaves and wearing hemp blankets.

[ibjames]

The reason China has so many men is because parents want a boy. Many have had girls and have killed them or disposed of them in some way so that the one child they have is a boy.

I doubt that would be a problem in the U.S. At times, I have thought that there should be some kind of cap related to income. Otherwise you cannot support your child. With the welfare system there would be caps on families etc. So if you did sneak around and have a child, your money wouldn’t raise, you would be putting your family in jeopardy.

Though, I would feel badly for a seal with something around it’s neck and it choking itself, I wouldn’t cry. In fact I would have probably followed through to make sure someone came to check the seal out though.

Skipping a day of food is a little drastic also. If anything, you should be yelling for something that is realistic. High standards for mileage/gallon for ALL vehicles for manufacturers. High standards on credit and reform on social programs. Now.. that is something to hope for. Not everyone wants to be living in log cabins and eating leaves and wearing hemp blankets.

[ibjames]

The reason China has so many men is because parents want a boy. Many have had girls and have killed them or disposed of them in some way so that the one child they have is a boy.

I doubt that would be a problem in the U.S. At times, I have thought that there should be some kind of cap related to income. Otherwise you cannot support your child. With the welfare system there would be caps on families etc. So if you did sneak around and have a child, your money wouldn’t raise, you would be putting your family in jeopardy.

Though, I would feel badly for a seal with something around it’s neck and it choking itself, I wouldn’t cry. In fact I would have probably followed through to make sure someone came to check the seal out though.

Skipping a day of food is a little drastic also. If anything, you should be yelling for something that is realistic. High standards for mileage/gallon for ALL vehicles for manufacturers. High standards on credit and reform on social programs. Now.. that is something to hope for. Not everyone wants to be living in log cabins and eating leaves and wearing hemp blankets.

[ibjames]

The reason China has so many men is because parents want a boy. Many have had girls and have killed them or disposed of them in some way so that the one child they have is a boy.

I doubt that would be a problem in the U.S. At times, I have thought that there should be some kind of cap related to income. Otherwise you cannot support your child. With the welfare system there would be caps on families etc. So if you did sneak around and have a child, your money wouldn’t raise, you would be putting your family in jeopardy.

Though, I would feel badly for a seal with something around it’s neck and it choking itself, I wouldn’t cry. In fact I would have probably followed through to make sure someone came to check the seal out though.

Skipping a day of food is a little drastic also. If anything, you should be yelling for something that is realistic. High standards for mileage/gallon for ALL vehicles for manufacturers. High standards on credit and reform on social programs. Now.. that is something to hope for. Not everyone wants to be living in log cabins and eating leaves and wearing hemp blankets.

[patientlywaiting]

Reproducing like rabbits is certainly not responsible.

If we only replace ourselves, then our kids will never have to worry about housing. They can just trade what they inherit among themselves.

Imagine everyone on the planet living a in a 3000sf house!

A new person creates a huge carbon footprint. Aren’t we thinking about carbon taxes?

[patientlywaiting]

Reproducing like rabbits is certainly not responsible.

If we only replace ourselves, then our kids will never have to worry about housing. They can just trade what they inherit among themselves.

Imagine everyone on the planet living a in a 3000sf house!

A new person creates a huge carbon footprint. Aren’t we thinking about carbon taxes?

[patientlywaiting]

Reproducing like rabbits is certainly not responsible.

If we only replace ourselves, then our kids will never have to worry about housing. They can just trade what they inherit among themselves.

Imagine everyone on the planet living a in a 3000sf house!

A new person creates a huge carbon footprint. Aren’t we thinking about carbon taxes?

[patientlywaiting]

Reproducing like rabbits is certainly not responsible.

If we only replace ourselves, then our kids will never have to worry about housing. They can just trade what they inherit among themselves.

Imagine everyone on the planet living a in a 3000sf house!

A new person creates a huge carbon footprint. Aren’t we thinking about carbon taxes?

[(former)FormerSanDiegan]

Did someone accidentally grant Ted Kaczynski web access ?

[(former)FormerSanDiegan]

Did someone accidentally grant Ted Kaczynski web access ?

[(former)FormerSanDiegan]

Did someone accidentally grant Ted Kaczynski web access ?

[(former)FormerSanDiegan]

Did someone accidentally grant Ted Kaczynski web access ?

[sdrealtor]

It must be very painful living such an unhappy existence. My I suggest LexaPro?

[sdrealtor]

It must be very painful living such an unhappy existence. My I suggest LexaPro?

[sdrealtor]

It must be very painful living such an unhappy existence. My I suggest LexaPro?

[sdrealtor]

It must be very painful living such an unhappy existence. My I suggest LexaPro?

[Chris Scoreboard Johnston]

I feel sorry for people like you.

[Chris Scoreboard Johnston]

I feel sorry for people like you.

[Chris Scoreboard Johnston]

I feel sorry for people like you.

[Chris Scoreboard Johnston]

I feel sorry for people like you.

[4plexowner]

put me in the ‘hoping for a depression’ camp (yes, that’s depression, not recession)

the way I see it, there is at least $450 trillion dollars worth of derivative paper that has to be marked to its true value of zero – since people with a vested interest in the status quo are going to fight this massive loss of ‘wealth’ with every tool at their disposal, the re-pricing will take much longer than it should (see Japan for a case study)

all of this paper ‘wealth’ and the financial games that it enables will end because they aren’t based on any fundamental economic activity (like making a product or providing a service) – this derivative paper is like $450+ trillion dollars worth of free lunch floating around the planet only there is a problem: FREE LUNCH DOESN’T EXIST!!!

We could write all of this paper down to zero value overnight but that still wouldn’t get us back to a healthy economy because we wouldn’t have done anything to change people’s behavior or attitudes

It is going to take years to change the attitudes and values of the current American consumer – a shallow recession isn’t going to do the trick – Americans are so out of touch these days that most of them won’t even be aware we are in a recession unless some contestant on American Idol happens to mention it in passing

believe it or not, I am an optimist and believe that the future is bright for human beings – I am also a realist (engineer by birth and training) and this is how I see the world currently

call me an uber-bear if you want – reality only sucks if you choose to perceive it that way

~

Here’s Brian Bloom with some thoughts along the same lines:
http://www.321gold.com/editorials/bloom/bloom120307.html

Personally, I am cheering for gold because I believe that a meaningful rise in its price will signal the end of an era of selfishness, callous disregard for others and for our environment. It will represent the end of an era of political rule by people who are not fit to call themselves the leaders of society – not because they lack the ability, but because they are generally devoid of wisdom, empathy, respect and love for the people whose interests they are supposed to be representing.

To me, the glass is half full. I see change coming. It will be painful, but it will lead to better things as our values become appropriately prioritised. I see us moving out of the testosterone addled Neanderthal era, and towards a new era where we care more about the consequences of our selfish actions.

[4plexowner]

put me in the ‘hoping for a depression’ camp (yes, that’s depression, not recession)

the way I see it, there is at least $450 trillion dollars worth of derivative paper that has to be marked to its true value of zero – since people with a vested interest in the status quo are going to fight this massive loss of ‘wealth’ with every tool at their disposal, the re-pricing will take much longer than it should (see Japan for a case study)

all of this paper ‘wealth’ and the financial games that it enables will end because they aren’t based on any fundamental economic activity (like making a product or providing a service) – this derivative paper is like $450+ trillion dollars worth of free lunch floating around the planet only there is a problem: FREE LUNCH DOESN’T EXIST!!!

We could write all of this paper down to zero value overnight but that still wouldn’t get us back to a healthy economy because we wouldn’t have done anything to change people’s behavior or attitudes

It is going to take years to change the attitudes and values of the current American consumer – a shallow recession isn’t going to do the trick – Americans are so out of touch these days that most of them won’t even be aware we are in a recession unless some contestant on American Idol happens to mention it in passing

believe it or not, I am an optimist and believe that the future is bright for human beings – I am also a realist (engineer by birth and training) and this is how I see the world currently

call me an uber-bear if you want – reality only sucks if you choose to perceive it that way

~

Here’s Brian Bloom with some thoughts along the same lines:
http://www.321gold.com/editorials/bloom/bloom120307.html

Personally, I am cheering for gold because I believe that a meaningful rise in its price will signal the end of an era of selfishness, callous disregard for others and for our environment. It will represent the end of an era of political rule by people who are not fit to call themselves the leaders of society – not because they lack the ability, but because they are generally devoid of wisdom, empathy, respect and love for the people whose interests they are supposed to be representing.

To me, the glass is half full. I see change coming. It will be painful, but it will lead to better things as our values become appropriately prioritised. I see us moving out of the testosterone addled Neanderthal era, and towards a new era where we care more about the consequences of our selfish actions.

[4plexowner]

put me in the ‘hoping for a depression’ camp (yes, that’s depression, not recession)

the way I see it, there is at least $450 trillion dollars worth of derivative paper that has to be marked to its true value of zero – since people with a vested interest in the status quo are going to fight this massive loss of ‘wealth’ with every tool at their disposal, the re-pricing will take much longer than it should (see Japan for a case study)

all of this paper ‘wealth’ and the financial games that it enables will end because they aren’t based on any fundamental economic activity (like making a product or providing a service) – this derivative paper is like $450+ trillion dollars worth of free lunch floating around the planet only there is a problem: FREE LUNCH DOESN’T EXIST!!!

We could write all of this paper down to zero value overnight but that still wouldn’t get us back to a healthy economy because we wouldn’t have done anything to change people’s behavior or attitudes

It is going to take years to change the attitudes and values of the current American consumer – a shallow recession isn’t going to do the trick – Americans are so out of touch these days that most of them won’t even be aware we are in a recession unless some contestant on American Idol happens to mention it in passing

believe it or not, I am an optimist and believe that the future is bright for human beings – I am also a realist (engineer by birth and training) and this is how I see the world currently

call me an uber-bear if you want – reality only sucks if you choose to perceive it that way

~

Here’s Brian Bloom with some thoughts along the same lines:
http://www.321gold.com/editorials/bloom/bloom120307.html

Personally, I am cheering for gold because I believe that a meaningful rise in its price will signal the end of an era of selfishness, callous disregard for others and for our environment. It will represent the end of an era of political rule by people who are not fit to call themselves the leaders of society – not because they lack the ability, but because they are generally devoid of wisdom, empathy, respect and love for the people whose interests they are supposed to be representing.

To me, the glass is half full. I see change coming. It will be painful, but it will lead to better things as our values become appropriately prioritised. I see us moving out of the testosterone addled Neanderthal era, and towards a new era where we care more about the consequences of our selfish actions.

[4plexowner]

put me in the ‘hoping for a depression’ camp (yes, that’s depression, not recession)

the way I see it, there is at least $450 trillion dollars worth of derivative paper that has to be marked to its true value of zero – since people with a vested interest in the status quo are going to fight this massive loss of ‘wealth’ with every tool at their disposal, the re-pricing will take much longer than it should (see Japan for a case study)

all of this paper ‘wealth’ and the financial games that it enables will end because they aren’t based on any fundamental economic activity (like making a product or providing a service) – this derivative paper is like $450+ trillion dollars worth of free lunch floating around the planet only there is a problem: FREE LUNCH DOESN’T EXIST!!!

We could write all of this paper down to zero value overnight but that still wouldn’t get us back to a healthy economy because we wouldn’t have done anything to change people’s behavior or attitudes

It is going to take years to change the attitudes and values of the current American consumer – a shallow recession isn’t going to do the trick – Americans are so out of touch these days that most of them won’t even be aware we are in a recession unless some contestant on American Idol happens to mention it in passing

believe it or not, I am an optimist and believe that the future is bright for human beings – I am also a realist (engineer by birth and training) and this is how I see the world currently

call me an uber-bear if you want – reality only sucks if you choose to perceive it that way

~

Here’s Brian Bloom with some thoughts along the same lines:
http://www.321gold.com/editorials/bloom/bloom120307.html

Personally, I am cheering for gold because I believe that a meaningful rise in its price will signal the end of an era of selfishness, callous disregard for others and for our environment. It will represent the end of an era of political rule by people who are not fit to call themselves the leaders of society – not because they lack the ability, but because they are generally devoid of wisdom, empathy, respect and love for the people whose interests they are supposed to be representing.

To me, the glass is half full. I see change coming. It will be painful, but it will lead to better things as our values become appropriately prioritised. I see us moving out of the testosterone addled Neanderthal era, and towards a new era where we care more about the consequences of our selfish actions.

[Ricechex]

I don’t wish for a recession. However, I must agree with you–consumption is out of control. It is really sad. I remember the clearing of a some wild land in Ohio, for a gigantic mall. All the little rabbits and other wildlife were seen roaming looking for food and where to be. They were constantly getting run over. In SD, for a time, there were lots of coyotes coming up from the canyon looking for food. I felt really sad, but I knew better than feeding wildlife, creates dependency. I have seen the Redwoods in Northern CA just disappear over time. They leave some by the side of the road, so you don’t know that they have cut them down to nothing behind the road. It is really sad.

I hate when whales wash up on our beaches. Sometimes they are hurt or indirectly poisoned by the dirty waters. The Navy uses sonar which destroys dolphins. I was at Mission Bay this summer jetskiing (which goes against my grain so I was being a hypocrite and felt bad the whole time) and saw a sea lion on a buoy with something around its neck. It was gradually being strangled to death. I had my friend get the cell phone out and I called Sea World. I doubt that anything happenned. It took all of me to be a good sport and not cry and ruin the day. But, I cried later when I got home.

Yes, the planet won’t be able to take much more. I think living conservatively is better for us all. Oh, and I can’t stand Hummers.

[Ricechex]

I don’t wish for a recession. However, I must agree with you–consumption is out of control. It is really sad. I remember the clearing of a some wild land in Ohio, for a gigantic mall. All the little rabbits and other wildlife were seen roaming looking for food and where to be. They were constantly getting run over. In SD, for a time, there were lots of coyotes coming up from the canyon looking for food. I felt really sad, but I knew better than feeding wildlife, creates dependency. I have seen the Redwoods in Northern CA just disappear over time. They leave some by the side of the road, so you don’t know that they have cut them down to nothing behind the road. It is really sad.

I hate when whales wash up on our beaches. Sometimes they are hurt or indirectly poisoned by the dirty waters. The Navy uses sonar which destroys dolphins. I was at Mission Bay this summer jetskiing (which goes against my grain so I was being a hypocrite and felt bad the whole time) and saw a sea lion on a buoy with something around its neck. It was gradually being strangled to death. I had my friend get the cell phone out and I called Sea World. I doubt that anything happenned. It took all of me to be a good sport and not cry and ruin the day. But, I cried later when I got home.

Yes, the planet won’t be able to take much more. I think living conservatively is better for us all. Oh, and I can’t stand Hummers.

[Ricechex]

I don’t wish for a recession. However, I must agree with you–consumption is out of control. It is really sad. I remember the clearing of a some wild land in Ohio, for a gigantic mall. All the little rabbits and other wildlife were seen roaming looking for food and where to be. They were constantly getting run over. In SD, for a time, there were lots of coyotes coming up from the canyon looking for food. I felt really sad, but I knew better than feeding wildlife, creates dependency. I have seen the Redwoods in Northern CA just disappear over time. They leave some by the side of the road, so you don’t know that they have cut them down to nothing behind the road. It is really sad.

I hate when whales wash up on our beaches. Sometimes they are hurt or indirectly poisoned by the dirty waters. The Navy uses sonar which destroys dolphins. I was at Mission Bay this summer jetskiing (which goes against my grain so I was being a hypocrite and felt bad the whole time) and saw a sea lion on a buoy with something around its neck. It was gradually being strangled to death. I had my friend get the cell phone out and I called Sea World. I doubt that anything happenned. It took all of me to be a good sport and not cry and ruin the day. But, I cried later when I got home.

Yes, the planet won’t be able to take much more. I think living conservatively is better for us all. Oh, and I can’t stand Hummers.

[Ricechex]

I don’t wish for a recession. However, I must agree with you–consumption is out of control. It is really sad. I remember the clearing of a some wild land in Ohio, for a gigantic mall. All the little rabbits and other wildlife were seen roaming looking for food and where to be. They were constantly getting run over. In SD, for a time, there were lots of coyotes coming up from the canyon looking for food. I felt really sad, but I knew better than feeding wildlife, creates dependency. I have seen the Redwoods in Northern CA just disappear over time. They leave some by the side of the road, so you don’t know that they have cut them down to nothing behind the road. It is really sad.

I hate when whales wash up on our beaches. Sometimes they are hurt or indirectly poisoned by the dirty waters. The Navy uses sonar which destroys dolphins. I was at Mission Bay this summer jetskiing (which goes against my grain so I was being a hypocrite and felt bad the whole time) and saw a sea lion on a buoy with something around its neck. It was gradually being strangled to death. I had my friend get the cell phone out and I called Sea World. I doubt that anything happenned. It took all of me to be a good sport and not cry and ruin the day. But, I cried later when I got home.

Yes, the planet won’t be able to take much more. I think living conservatively is better for us all. Oh, and I can’t stand Hummers.

[scaredyclassic]

someone posted; People already have the choice of living as you describe. Isn’t it better to have the choice of living the lifestyle you prefer, rather than being forced to live a certain way?

no. because your choices affect me. Like, i would liek to have some air and water left. I would like not to have the globe heated up beyond liveability. The whole world cannot live in 3000 square foot air conditioned homes. so whys hould you? or me? what si the true cost of it all. the cost of a housing boom is more than just the economic cost. what about all that land destroyed. I was hiking in an area that was “wild” and then hal f of it got cleared and graded. it made me wanna cry. and you know what, those graded lots will probably just freaking sit there. sadness. what si the global cost of this ‘lifestyle we prefer”…im too drunk to contnue…

Drink Heavily.

[scaredyclassic]

someone posted; People already have the choice of living as you describe. Isn’t it better to have the choice of living the lifestyle you prefer, rather than being forced to live a certain way?

no. because your choices affect me. Like, i would liek to have some air and water left. I would like not to have the globe heated up beyond liveability. The whole world cannot live in 3000 square foot air conditioned homes. so whys hould you? or me? what si the true cost of it all. the cost of a housing boom is more than just the economic cost. what about all that land destroyed. I was hiking in an area that was “wild” and then hal f of it got cleared and graded. it made me wanna cry. and you know what, those graded lots will probably just freaking sit there. sadness. what si the global cost of this ‘lifestyle we prefer”…im too drunk to contnue…

Drink Heavily.

[scaredyclassic]

someone posted; People already have the choice of living as you describe. Isn’t it better to have the choice of living the lifestyle you prefer, rather than being forced to live a certain way?

no. because your choices affect me. Like, i would liek to have some air and water left. I would like not to have the globe heated up beyond liveability. The whole world cannot live in 3000 square foot air conditioned homes. so whys hould you? or me? what si the true cost of it all. the cost of a housing boom is more than just the economic cost. what about all that land destroyed. I was hiking in an area that was “wild” and then hal f of it got cleared and graded. it made me wanna cry. and you know what, those graded lots will probably just freaking sit there. sadness. what si the global cost of this ‘lifestyle we prefer”…im too drunk to contnue…

Drink Heavily.

[scaredyclassic]

someone posted; People already have the choice of living as you describe. Isn’t it better to have the choice of living the lifestyle you prefer, rather than being forced to live a certain way?

no. because your choices affect me. Like, i would liek to have some air and water left. I would like not to have the globe heated up beyond liveability. The whole world cannot live in 3000 square foot air conditioned homes. so whys hould you? or me? what si the true cost of it all. the cost of a housing boom is more than just the economic cost. what about all that land destroyed. I was hiking in an area that was “wild” and then hal f of it got cleared and graded. it made me wanna cry. and you know what, those graded lots will probably just freaking sit there. sadness. what si the global cost of this ‘lifestyle we prefer”…im too drunk to contnue…

Drink Heavily.

[scaredyclassic]

well, no one really cares what i (or any of us want)…but that doesn’t stop me from thinking i know what i want. and you. I’m not particularly interested in less people. i’m more interested in less desire. For more house. more space. more of everything. falling house prices is good. might incentivize buidlers to build smaller houses. might encourage less consumption. if we earn less, and consume less, we might be better off. I suppose in a sense, “reproducing” is the ultimate consumption, in that we consume reosurces through others (that is, our offspring). course, we dont need an official govt policy for one kid. just have it make economic sense…too late for those of us who have a buncha kids. like me…

Drink Heavily.

[scaredyclassic]

well, no one really cares what i (or any of us want)…but that doesn’t stop me from thinking i know what i want. and you. I’m not particularly interested in less people. i’m more interested in less desire. For more house. more space. more of everything. falling house prices is good. might incentivize buidlers to build smaller houses. might encourage less consumption. if we earn less, and consume less, we might be better off. I suppose in a sense, “reproducing” is the ultimate consumption, in that we consume reosurces through others (that is, our offspring). course, we dont need an official govt policy for one kid. just have it make economic sense…too late for those of us who have a buncha kids. like me…

Drink Heavily.

[scaredyclassic]

well, no one really cares what i (or any of us want)…but that doesn’t stop me from thinking i know what i want. and you. I’m not particularly interested in less people. i’m more interested in less desire. For more house. more space. more of everything. falling house prices is good. might incentivize buidlers to build smaller houses. might encourage less consumption. if we earn less, and consume less, we might be better off. I suppose in a sense, “reproducing” is the ultimate consumption, in that we consume reosurces through others (that is, our offspring). course, we dont need an official govt policy for one kid. just have it make economic sense…too late for those of us who have a buncha kids. like me…

Drink Heavily.

[scaredyclassic]

well, no one really cares what i (or any of us want)…but that doesn’t stop me from thinking i know what i want. and you. I’m not particularly interested in less people. i’m more interested in less desire. For more house. more space. more of everything. falling house prices is good. might incentivize buidlers to build smaller houses. might encourage less consumption. if we earn less, and consume less, we might be better off. I suppose in a sense, “reproducing” is the ultimate consumption, in that we consume reosurces through others (that is, our offspring). course, we dont need an official govt policy for one kid. just have it make economic sense…too late for those of us who have a buncha kids. like me…

Drink Heavily.

[bsrsharma]

Impending Destruction of the US Economy,
Paul Craig Roberts
November 30, 2007

Hubris and arrogance are too ensconced in Washington for policymakers to be aware of the economic policy trap in which they have placed the US economy. If the subprime mortgage meltdown is half as bad as predicted, low US interest rates will be required in order to contain the crisis. But if the dollar’s plight is half as bad as predicted, high US interest rates will be required if foreigners are to continue to hold dollars and to finance US budget and trade deficits.

Which will Washington sacrifice, the domestic financial system and over-extended homeowners or its ability to finance deficits?
………………….

Dr. Paul Craig Roberts was Assistant Secretary of the US Treasury for Economic Policy in the Reagan administration. He is credited with curing stagflation and eliminating “Phillips curve” trade-offs between employment and inflation, an achievement now on the verge of being lost by the worst economic mismanagement in US history.

http://realestatetalk.org/real-estate/impending-destruction-of-the-us-economy/

[NotCranky]

“I want people to be happier.”

I doubt we will have more happiness with your “drink heavily’ poilicy. Pray tell what does that have to do with anything…you must mean Koolaide. I hope you don’t have too large of a flock.
Got comets?

Really though you do bring to mind thoughts of megalomaniac cult leaders. Other things too. Like the unabomber. That said, I agree with many of your opinions.
But on the offer of refreshment… I’ll pass. No! you can’t have my left over fertilizer!

[Anonymous]

“Really though you do bring to mind thoughts of megalomaniac cult leaders. Other things too. Like the unabomber.”

Lol.

Publicdefender, do you see dead people?

I’ve got some news: It’s gonna take something a tad bit stronger than alcohol…I’m thinking perhaps a “thorazine cocktail” as chaser…

[Anonymous]

“Really though you do bring to mind thoughts of megalomaniac cult leaders. Other things too. Like the unabomber.”

Lol.

Publicdefender, do you see dead people?

I’ve got some news: It’s gonna take something a tad bit stronger than alcohol…I’m thinking perhaps a “thorazine cocktail” as chaser…

[Anonymous]

“Really though you do bring to mind thoughts of megalomaniac cult leaders. Other things too. Like the unabomber.”

Lol.

Publicdefender, do you see dead people?

I’ve got some news: It’s gonna take something a tad bit stronger than alcohol…I’m thinking perhaps a “thorazine cocktail” as chaser…

[Anonymous]

“Really though you do bring to mind thoughts of megalomaniac cult leaders. Other things too. Like the unabomber.”

Lol.

Publicdefender, do you see dead people?

I’ve got some news: It’s gonna take something a tad bit stronger than alcohol…I’m thinking perhaps a “thorazine cocktail” as chaser…

[Anonymous]

“Really though you do bring to mind thoughts of megalomaniac cult leaders. Other things too. Like the unabomber.”

Lol.

Publicdefender, do you see dead people?

I’ve got some news: It’s gonna take something a tad bit stronger than alcohol…I’m thinking perhaps a “thorazine cocktail” as chaser…

[NotCranky]

“I want people to be happier.”

I doubt we will have more happiness with your “drink heavily’ poilicy. Pray tell what does that have to do with anything…you must mean Koolaide. I hope you don’t have too large of a flock.
Got comets?

Really though you do bring to mind thoughts of megalomaniac cult leaders. Other things too. Like the unabomber. That said, I agree with many of your opinions.
But on the offer of refreshment… I’ll pass. No! you can’t have my left over fertilizer!

[NotCranky]

“I want people to be happier.”

I doubt we will have more happiness with your “drink heavily’ poilicy. Pray tell what does that have to do with anything…you must mean Koolaide. I hope you don’t have too large of a flock.
Got comets?

Really though you do bring to mind thoughts of megalomaniac cult leaders. Other things too. Like the unabomber. That said, I agree with many of your opinions.
But on the offer of refreshment… I’ll pass. No! you can’t have my left over fertilizer!

[NotCranky]

“I want people to be happier.”

I doubt we will have more happiness with your “drink heavily’ poilicy. Pray tell what does that have to do with anything…you must mean Koolaide. I hope you don’t have too large of a flock.
Got comets?

Really though you do bring to mind thoughts of megalomaniac cult leaders. Other things too. Like the unabomber. That said, I agree with many of your opinions.
But on the offer of refreshment… I’ll pass. No! you can’t have my left over fertilizer!

[NotCranky]

“I want people to be happier.”

I doubt we will have more happiness with your “drink heavily’ poilicy. Pray tell what does that have to do with anything…you must mean Koolaide. I hope you don’t have too large of a flock.
Got comets?

Really though you do bring to mind thoughts of megalomaniac cult leaders. Other things too. Like the unabomber. That said, I agree with many of your opinions.
But on the offer of refreshment… I’ll pass. No! you can’t have my left over fertilizer!

[bsrsharma]

Impending Destruction of the US Economy,
Paul Craig Roberts
November 30, 2007

Hubris and arrogance are too ensconced in Washington for policymakers to be aware of the economic policy trap in which they have placed the US economy. If the subprime mortgage meltdown is half as bad as predicted, low US interest rates will be required in order to contain the crisis. But if the dollar’s plight is half as bad as predicted, high US interest rates will be required if foreigners are to continue to hold dollars and to finance US budget and trade deficits.

Which will Washington sacrifice, the domestic financial system and over-extended homeowners or its ability to finance deficits?
………………….

Dr. Paul Craig Roberts was Assistant Secretary of the US Treasury for Economic Policy in the Reagan administration. He is credited with curing stagflation and eliminating “Phillips curve” trade-offs between employment and inflation, an achievement now on the verge of being lost by the worst economic mismanagement in US history.

http://realestatetalk.org/real-estate/impending-destruction-of-the-us-economy/

[bsrsharma]

Impending Destruction of the US Economy,
Paul Craig Roberts
November 30, 2007

Hubris and arrogance are too ensconced in Washington for policymakers to be aware of the economic policy trap in which they have placed the US economy. If the subprime mortgage meltdown is half as bad as predicted, low US interest rates will be required in order to contain the crisis. But if the dollar’s plight is half as bad as predicted, high US interest rates will be required if foreigners are to continue to hold dollars and to finance US budget and trade deficits.

Which will Washington sacrifice, the domestic financial system and over-extended homeowners or its ability to finance deficits?
………………….

Dr. Paul Craig Roberts was Assistant Secretary of the US Treasury for Economic Policy in the Reagan administration. He is credited with curing stagflation and eliminating “Phillips curve” trade-offs between employment and inflation, an achievement now on the verge of being lost by the worst economic mismanagement in US history.

http://realestatetalk.org/real-estate/impending-destruction-of-the-us-economy/

[bsrsharma]

Impending Destruction of the US Economy,
Paul Craig Roberts
November 30, 2007

Hubris and arrogance are too ensconced in Washington for policymakers to be aware of the economic policy trap in which they have placed the US economy. If the subprime mortgage meltdown is half as bad as predicted, low US interest rates will be required in order to contain the crisis. But if the dollar’s plight is half as bad as predicted, high US interest rates will be required if foreigners are to continue to hold dollars and to finance US budget and trade deficits.

Which will Washington sacrifice, the domestic financial system and over-extended homeowners or its ability to finance deficits?
………………….

Dr. Paul Craig Roberts was Assistant Secretary of the US Treasury for Economic Policy in the Reagan administration. He is credited with curing stagflation and eliminating “Phillips curve” trade-offs between employment and inflation, an achievement now on the verge of being lost by the worst economic mismanagement in US history.

http://realestatetalk.org/real-estate/impending-destruction-of-the-us-economy/

[bsrsharma]

Impending Destruction of the US Economy,
Paul Craig Roberts
November 30, 2007

Hubris and arrogance are too ensconced in Washington for policymakers to be aware of the economic policy trap in which they have placed the US economy. If the subprime mortgage meltdown is half as bad as predicted, low US interest rates will be required in order to contain the crisis. But if the dollar’s plight is half as bad as predicted, high US interest rates will be required if foreigners are to continue to hold dollars and to finance US budget and trade deficits.

Which will Washington sacrifice, the domestic financial system and over-extended homeowners or its ability to finance deficits?
………………….

Dr. Paul Craig Roberts was Assistant Secretary of the US Treasury for Economic Policy in the Reagan administration. He is credited with curing stagflation and eliminating “Phillips curve” trade-offs between employment and inflation, an achievement now on the verge of being lost by the worst economic mismanagement in US history.

http://realestatetalk.org/real-estate/impending-destruction-of-the-us-economy/

[gold_dredger_phd]

I didn’t know they allowed Ted Kaczinski to post things on the internet from prison.

[gold_dredger_phd]

I didn’t know they allowed Ted Kaczinski to post things on the internet from prison.

[gold_dredger_phd]

I didn’t know they allowed Ted Kaczinski to post things on the internet from prison.

[gold_dredger_phd]

I didn’t know they allowed Ted Kaczinski to post things on the internet from prison.

[gold_dredger_phd]

I didn’t know they allowed Ted Kaczinski to post things on the internet from prison.

[4plexowner]

James Kunstler – bear or realist?
http://www.kunstler.com/ – from 12/3/07 post:

“…
The action in the markets now all hinges on how certain species of “derivative” paper — certificates based on the value of other certificates — are valued. The certificates in question are mortgage-backed-securities (MBSs), collateralized debt obligations (CDOs), and other instruments based on debt rather than equity, that is loans rather than wealth. Of course, one problem associated with these things is that they exist now mainly in the forms of electrons in computer systems, represented by pixels on screens, not in paper contracts or promises to pay. Thus they are abstracted not just in derivation but in representation. The further and more crucial problem is not that there is necessarily disagreement over their value, but that, in fact, there’s a growing consensus that their value is close to zero. And there is enough of the worthless crap to choke banks all over the world.
…
The recognition is growing that our financial markets have been subject to mischief so egregious that there will be hell to pay.”

[Arraya]

I often question peoples unwarrented and neurotic tendancy to be optimisitc about the future of the world at least in the short term 5-100 years. We have an unsustainable lifestyle, not unlike how the housing bubble was unsustainable.

It’s all simple math. The 3 billion or so indian and chinese are trying to live like americans. That is a mathmatical impossibiliy. Our resouce base will not allow it.

We are currently using 30% more trees, water and fish than we can regenerate. We lose 200+ species a day to extinction.

All fossil fuels are approaching or have peaked I.e. energy is about to get really really expensive and our infastructor based on cheap, abundant energy will fail.

All problems are being ignored by the federal and local gov’ts. Last time I checked ignorance is not a good mitigation policy see Atlanta drought.

Multiple crises will soon hit this country and ignoring the issues will soon not be an option. Couple this with the reckless financial policies and a gov’t following the steps of Germany in the 30s and you have a the perfect science fiction movie.

We have reached critical mass and are still collectively saying full speed ahead. Eventually the system will come to a grinding halt. Infinate growth does not work in a finite world.

So by not adopting a crisis mindset througout our entire society, we are taking a gigantic gamble and it is a gamble that history suggests we are
going to lose. I am not aware of a single prior civilization that continued to do things the same way and which faced one or more of these kinds of problems
that did not collapse. Those civilizations cited by Tainter and Diamond that did survive serious crises, did so by changing urgently. Thus, until I see our society deliberately choosing to succeed, I must assume, based on the historical record, that we will fail (and therefore collapse). Given that many
population biologists are of the opinion that we are in serious population overshoot only enabled by our civilization’s existence (and dependence on fossil fuels), the loss of that civilization must be presumed to be accompanied by serious loss of life and disintegration of the social structure, as has
happened repeatedly throughout history.

There is about to be a battle between the “rightness” of our current economic model and geological forces. A depression is the best thing that could happen the world.

Our delusional attempts to control something as huge and complex as the world has only succeded in pissing her off.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance

In popular usage, it can be associated with the tendency for people to resist information that they don’t want to think about, because if they did it would create cognitive dissonance, and perhaps require them to act in ways that depart from their comfortable habits. They usually have at least partial awareness of the information, without having moved to full acceptance of it, and are thus in a state of denial about it.

http://iacs5.ucsd.edu/~pbang/dance_monkeys.htm

[NotCranky]

Rustico

[NotCranky]

Rustico

[NotCranky]

Rustico

[NotCranky]

Rustico

[NotCranky]

Rustico

[Arraya]

I often question peoples unwarrented and neurotic tendancy to be optimisitc about the future of the world at least in the short term 5-100 years. We have an unsustainable lifestyle, not unlike how the housing bubble was unsustainable.

It’s all simple math. The 3 billion or so indian and chinese are trying to live like americans. That is a mathmatical impossibiliy. Our resouce base will not allow it.

We are currently using 30% more trees, water and fish than we can regenerate. We lose 200+ species a day to extinction.

All fossil fuels are approaching or have peaked I.e. energy is about to get really really expensive and our infastructor based on cheap, abundant energy will fail.

All problems are being ignored by the federal and local gov’ts. Last time I checked ignorance is not a good mitigation policy see Atlanta drought.

Multiple crises will soon hit this country and ignoring the issues will soon not be an option. Couple this with the reckless financial policies and a gov’t following the steps of Germany in the 30s and you have a the perfect science fiction movie.

We have reached critical mass and are still collectively saying full speed ahead. Eventually the system will come to a grinding halt. Infinate growth does not work in a finite world.

So by not adopting a crisis mindset througout our entire society, we are taking a gigantic gamble and it is a gamble that history suggests we are
going to lose. I am not aware of a single prior civilization that continued to do things the same way and which faced one or more of these kinds of problems
that did not collapse. Those civilizations cited by Tainter and Diamond that did survive serious crises, did so by changing urgently. Thus, until I see our society deliberately choosing to succeed, I must assume, based on the historical record, that we will fail (and therefore collapse). Given that many
population biologists are of the opinion that we are in serious population overshoot only enabled by our civilization’s existence (and dependence on fossil fuels), the loss of that civilization must be presumed to be accompanied by serious loss of life and disintegration of the social structure, as has
happened repeatedly throughout history.

There is about to be a battle between the “rightness” of our current economic model and geological forces. A depression is the best thing that could happen the world.

Our delusional attempts to control something as huge and complex as the world has only succeded in pissing her off.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance

In popular usage, it can be associated with the tendency for people to resist information that they don’t want to think about, because if they did it would create cognitive dissonance, and perhaps require them to act in ways that depart from their comfortable habits. They usually have at least partial awareness of the information, without having moved to full acceptance of it, and are thus in a state of denial about it.

http://iacs5.ucsd.edu/~pbang/dance_monkeys.htm

[Arraya]

I often question peoples unwarrented and neurotic tendancy to be optimisitc about the future of the world at least in the short term 5-100 years. We have an unsustainable lifestyle, not unlike how the housing bubble was unsustainable.

It’s all simple math. The 3 billion or so indian and chinese are trying to live like americans. That is a mathmatical impossibiliy. Our resouce base will not allow it.

We are currently using 30% more trees, water and fish than we can regenerate. We lose 200+ species a day to extinction.

All fossil fuels are approaching or have peaked I.e. energy is about to get really really expensive and our infastructor based on cheap, abundant energy will fail.

All problems are being ignored by the federal and local gov’ts. Last time I checked ignorance is not a good mitigation policy see Atlanta drought.

Multiple crises will soon hit this country and ignoring the issues will soon not be an option. Couple this with the reckless financial policies and a gov’t following the steps of Germany in the 30s and you have a the perfect science fiction movie.

We have reached critical mass and are still collectively saying full speed ahead. Eventually the system will come to a grinding halt. Infinate growth does not work in a finite world.

So by not adopting a crisis mindset througout our entire society, we are taking a gigantic gamble and it is a gamble that history suggests we are
going to lose. I am not aware of a single prior civilization that continued to do things the same way and which faced one or more of these kinds of problems
that did not collapse. Those civilizations cited by Tainter and Diamond that did survive serious crises, did so by changing urgently. Thus, until I see our society deliberately choosing to succeed, I must assume, based on the historical record, that we will fail (and therefore collapse). Given that many
population biologists are of the opinion that we are in serious population overshoot only enabled by our civilization’s existence (and dependence on fossil fuels), the loss of that civilization must be presumed to be accompanied by serious loss of life and disintegration of the social structure, as has
happened repeatedly throughout history.

There is about to be a battle between the “rightness” of our current economic model and geological forces. A depression is the best thing that could happen the world.

Our delusional attempts to control something as huge and complex as the world has only succeded in pissing her off.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance

In popular usage, it can be associated with the tendency for people to resist information that they don’t want to think about, because if they did it would create cognitive dissonance, and perhaps require them to act in ways that depart from their comfortable habits. They usually have at least partial awareness of the information, without having moved to full acceptance of it, and are thus in a state of denial about it.

http://iacs5.ucsd.edu/~pbang/dance_monkeys.htm

[Arraya]

I often question peoples unwarrented and neurotic tendancy to be optimisitc about the future of the world at least in the short term 5-100 years. We have an unsustainable lifestyle, not unlike how the housing bubble was unsustainable.

It’s all simple math. The 3 billion or so indian and chinese are trying to live like americans. That is a mathmatical impossibiliy. Our resouce base will not allow it.

We are currently using 30% more trees, water and fish than we can regenerate. We lose 200+ species a day to extinction.

All fossil fuels are approaching or have peaked I.e. energy is about to get really really expensive and our infastructor based on cheap, abundant energy will fail.

All problems are being ignored by the federal and local gov’ts. Last time I checked ignorance is not a good mitigation policy see Atlanta drought.

Multiple crises will soon hit this country and ignoring the issues will soon not be an option. Couple this with the reckless financial policies and a gov’t following the steps of Germany in the 30s and you have a the perfect science fiction movie.

We have reached critical mass and are still collectively saying full speed ahead. Eventually the system will come to a grinding halt. Infinate growth does not work in a finite world.

So by not adopting a crisis mindset througout our entire society, we are taking a gigantic gamble and it is a gamble that history suggests we are
going to lose. I am not aware of a single prior civilization that continued to do things the same way and which faced one or more of these kinds of problems
that did not collapse. Those civilizations cited by Tainter and Diamond that did survive serious crises, did so by changing urgently. Thus, until I see our society deliberately choosing to succeed, I must assume, based on the historical record, that we will fail (and therefore collapse). Given that many
population biologists are of the opinion that we are in serious population overshoot only enabled by our civilization’s existence (and dependence on fossil fuels), the loss of that civilization must be presumed to be accompanied by serious loss of life and disintegration of the social structure, as has
happened repeatedly throughout history.

There is about to be a battle between the “rightness” of our current economic model and geological forces. A depression is the best thing that could happen the world.

Our delusional attempts to control something as huge and complex as the world has only succeded in pissing her off.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance

In popular usage, it can be associated with the tendency for people to resist information that they don’t want to think about, because if they did it would create cognitive dissonance, and perhaps require them to act in ways that depart from their comfortable habits. They usually have at least partial awareness of the information, without having moved to full acceptance of it, and are thus in a state of denial about it.

http://iacs5.ucsd.edu/~pbang/dance_monkeys.htm

[Arraya]

I often question peoples unwarrented and neurotic tendancy to be optimisitc about the future of the world at least in the short term 5-100 years. We have an unsustainable lifestyle, not unlike how the housing bubble was unsustainable.

It’s all simple math. The 3 billion or so indian and chinese are trying to live like americans. That is a mathmatical impossibiliy. Our resouce base will not allow it.

We are currently using 30% more trees, water and fish than we can regenerate. We lose 200+ species a day to extinction.

All fossil fuels are approaching or have peaked I.e. energy is about to get really really expensive and our infastructor based on cheap, abundant energy will fail.

All problems are being ignored by the federal and local gov’ts. Last time I checked ignorance is not a good mitigation policy see Atlanta drought.

Multiple crises will soon hit this country and ignoring the issues will soon not be an option. Couple this with the reckless financial policies and a gov’t following the steps of Germany in the 30s and you have a the perfect science fiction movie.

We have reached critical mass and are still collectively saying full speed ahead. Eventually the system will come to a grinding halt. Infinate growth does not work in a finite world.

So by not adopting a crisis mindset througout our entire society, we are taking a gigantic gamble and it is a gamble that history suggests we are
going to lose. I am not aware of a single prior civilization that continued to do things the same way and which faced one or more of these kinds of problems
that did not collapse. Those civilizations cited by Tainter and Diamond that did survive serious crises, did so by changing urgently. Thus, until I see our society deliberately choosing to succeed, I must assume, based on the historical record, that we will fail (and therefore collapse). Given that many
population biologists are of the opinion that we are in serious population overshoot only enabled by our civilization’s existence (and dependence on fossil fuels), the loss of that civilization must be presumed to be accompanied by serious loss of life and disintegration of the social structure, as has
happened repeatedly throughout history.

There is about to be a battle between the “rightness” of our current economic model and geological forces. A depression is the best thing that could happen the world.

Our delusional attempts to control something as huge and complex as the world has only succeded in pissing her off.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance

In popular usage, it can be associated with the tendency for people to resist information that they don’t want to think about, because if they did it would create cognitive dissonance, and perhaps require them to act in ways that depart from their comfortable habits. They usually have at least partial awareness of the information, without having moved to full acceptance of it, and are thus in a state of denial about it.

http://iacs5.ucsd.edu/~pbang/dance_monkeys.htm

[4plexowner]

James Kunstler – bear or realist?
http://www.kunstler.com/ – from 12/3/07 post:

“…
The action in the markets now all hinges on how certain species of “derivative” paper — certificates based on the value of other certificates — are valued. The certificates in question are mortgage-backed-securities (MBSs), collateralized debt obligations (CDOs), and other instruments based on debt rather than equity, that is loans rather than wealth. Of course, one problem associated with these things is that they exist now mainly in the forms of electrons in computer systems, represented by pixels on screens, not in paper contracts or promises to pay. Thus they are abstracted not just in derivation but in representation. The further and more crucial problem is not that there is necessarily disagreement over their value, but that, in fact, there’s a growing consensus that their value is close to zero. And there is enough of the worthless crap to choke banks all over the world.
…
The recognition is growing that our financial markets have been subject to mischief so egregious that there will be hell to pay.”

[4plexowner]

James Kunstler – bear or realist?
http://www.kunstler.com/ – from 12/3/07 post:

“…
The action in the markets now all hinges on how certain species of “derivative” paper — certificates based on the value of other certificates — are valued. The certificates in question are mortgage-backed-securities (MBSs), collateralized debt obligations (CDOs), and other instruments based on debt rather than equity, that is loans rather than wealth. Of course, one problem associated with these things is that they exist now mainly in the forms of electrons in computer systems, represented by pixels on screens, not in paper contracts or promises to pay. Thus they are abstracted not just in derivation but in representation. The further and more crucial problem is not that there is necessarily disagreement over their value, but that, in fact, there’s a growing consensus that their value is close to zero. And there is enough of the worthless crap to choke banks all over the world.
…
The recognition is growing that our financial markets have been subject to mischief so egregious that there will be hell to pay.”

[4plexowner]

James Kunstler – bear or realist?
http://www.kunstler.com/ – from 12/3/07 post:

“…
The action in the markets now all hinges on how certain species of “derivative” paper — certificates based on the value of other certificates — are valued. The certificates in question are mortgage-backed-securities (MBSs), collateralized debt obligations (CDOs), and other instruments based on debt rather than equity, that is loans rather than wealth. Of course, one problem associated with these things is that they exist now mainly in the forms of electrons in computer systems, represented by pixels on screens, not in paper contracts or promises to pay. Thus they are abstracted not just in derivation but in representation. The further and more crucial problem is not that there is necessarily disagreement over their value, but that, in fact, there’s a growing consensus that their value is close to zero. And there is enough of the worthless crap to choke banks all over the world.
…
The recognition is growing that our financial markets have been subject to mischief so egregious that there will be hell to pay.”

[4plexowner]

James Kunstler – bear or realist?
http://www.kunstler.com/ – from 12/3/07 post:

“…
The action in the markets now all hinges on how certain species of “derivative” paper — certificates based on the value of other certificates — are valued. The certificates in question are mortgage-backed-securities (MBSs), collateralized debt obligations (CDOs), and other instruments based on debt rather than equity, that is loans rather than wealth. Of course, one problem associated with these things is that they exist now mainly in the forms of electrons in computer systems, represented by pixels on screens, not in paper contracts or promises to pay. Thus they are abstracted not just in derivation but in representation. The further and more crucial problem is not that there is necessarily disagreement over their value, but that, in fact, there’s a growing consensus that their value is close to zero. And there is enough of the worthless crap to choke banks all over the world.
…
The recognition is growing that our financial markets have been subject to mischief so egregious that there will be hell to pay.”

[gold_dredger_phd]

I’m having 7 or more children just for the tax credits. Then, I’m going to quit my job so I can get Section 8 housing in San Diego and then get a job again so I can get a liar’s loan and get a bailout. >: D

I’m going to teach each of my 7 kids to live off the government and each of them will have 7 or more kids. I figure that if they reproduce every 20 years on average then the welfare state will be bankrupt in 10 generations.

[gold_dredger_phd]

I’m having 7 or more children just for the tax credits. Then, I’m going to quit my job so I can get Section 8 housing in San Diego and then get a job again so I can get a liar’s loan and get a bailout. >: D

I’m going to teach each of my 7 kids to live off the government and each of them will have 7 or more kids. I figure that if they reproduce every 20 years on average then the welfare state will be bankrupt in 10 generations.

[gold_dredger_phd]

I’m having 7 or more children just for the tax credits. Then, I’m going to quit my job so I can get Section 8 housing in San Diego and then get a job again so I can get a liar’s loan and get a bailout. >: D

I’m going to teach each of my 7 kids to live off the government and each of them will have 7 or more kids. I figure that if they reproduce every 20 years on average then the welfare state will be bankrupt in 10 generations.

[gold_dredger_phd]

I’m having 7 or more children just for the tax credits. Then, I’m going to quit my job so I can get Section 8 housing in San Diego and then get a job again so I can get a liar’s loan and get a bailout. >: D

I’m going to teach each of my 7 kids to live off the government and each of them will have 7 or more kids. I figure that if they reproduce every 20 years on average then the welfare state will be bankrupt in 10 generations.

[gold_dredger_phd]

I’m having 7 or more children just for the tax credits. Then, I’m going to quit my job so I can get Section 8 housing in San Diego and then get a job again so I can get a liar’s loan and get a bailout. >: D

I’m going to teach each of my 7 kids to live off the government and each of them will have 7 or more kids. I figure that if they reproduce every 20 years on average then the welfare state will be bankrupt in 10 generations.

[4plexowner]

Richard Russel – bear or realist?

Russell Comment — The US and the world is facing an almost unbelievable problem. Nobody knows what type or quality of risk they own. This has put a huge HALT to lending. Talk of another Fed rate cut this month sounds heartening. But a rate cut has nothing to do with solving the basic problem. The fact is that the US and the world’s “lending machines”are frozen. The credit risk is now so huge that it’s almost beyond comprehension.

[4plexowner]

Richard Russel – bear or realist?

Russell Comment — The US and the world is facing an almost unbelievable problem. Nobody knows what type or quality of risk they own. This has put a huge HALT to lending. Talk of another Fed rate cut this month sounds heartening. But a rate cut has nothing to do with solving the basic problem. The fact is that the US and the world’s “lending machines”are frozen. The credit risk is now so huge that it’s almost beyond comprehension.

[4plexowner]

Richard Russel – bear or realist?

Russell Comment — The US and the world is facing an almost unbelievable problem. Nobody knows what type or quality of risk they own. This has put a huge HALT to lending. Talk of another Fed rate cut this month sounds heartening. But a rate cut has nothing to do with solving the basic problem. The fact is that the US and the world’s “lending machines”are frozen. The credit risk is now so huge that it’s almost beyond comprehension.

[4plexowner]

Richard Russel – bear or realist?

Russell Comment — The US and the world is facing an almost unbelievable problem. Nobody knows what type or quality of risk they own. This has put a huge HALT to lending. Talk of another Fed rate cut this month sounds heartening. But a rate cut has nothing to do with solving the basic problem. The fact is that the US and the world’s “lending machines”are frozen. The credit risk is now so huge that it’s almost beyond comprehension.

[4plexowner]

Richard Russel – bear or realist?

Russell Comment — The US and the world is facing an almost unbelievable problem. Nobody knows what type or quality of risk they own. This has put a huge HALT to lending. Talk of another Fed rate cut this month sounds heartening. But a rate cut has nothing to do with solving the basic problem. The fact is that the US and the world’s “lending machines”are frozen. The credit risk is now so huge that it’s almost beyond comprehension.

[highpacific]

This guy is just having fun. Pulling our leg. Don’t take him seriously! LOL

[NotCranky]

That’s funny highpacific. I think you are right !
Lots of hi-jinks going on around here.

[NotCranky]

That’s funny highpacific. I think you are right !
Lots of hi-jinks going on around here.

[NotCranky]

That’s funny highpacific. I think you are right !
Lots of hi-jinks going on around here.

[NotCranky]

That’s funny highpacific. I think you are right !
Lots of hi-jinks going on around here.

[NotCranky]

That’s funny highpacific. I think you are right !
Lots of hi-jinks going on around here.

[highpacific]

This guy is just having fun. Pulling our leg. Don’t take him seriously! LOL

[highpacific]

This guy is just having fun. Pulling our leg. Don’t take him seriously! LOL

[highpacific]

This guy is just having fun. Pulling our leg. Don’t take him seriously! LOL

[highpacific]

This guy is just having fun. Pulling our leg. Don’t take him seriously! LOL

[Author]

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