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FlyerInHi.
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August 16, 2017 at 5:42 PM #807656August 16, 2017 at 8:51 PM #807657
Anonymous
GuestFor every CEO that drops out of the Manufacturing Council, I have many to take their place. Grandstanders should not have gone on. JOBS!
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) August 15, 2017
For every CEO that drops out of the Manufacturing Council, I have many to take their place. Grandstanders should not have gone on. JOBS!
August 17, 2017 at 11:11 AM #807662FlyerInHi
Guest[quote=harvey]He never was a business leader. He was just rich.[/quote]
It shows how being rich makes up for a lot. People are a lot more forgiving of the rich.
Imagine if Trump were poor, how long would his wife, friends and business associates stick around?
A wise friend once told me that if you lack certain qualities, you need to make up in other ways. Money is a great way to compensate.
August 21, 2017 at 9:51 PM #807710sdduuuude
ParticipantYou know, zk and Harvey, fuck you both for calling me a Trump supporter. Just because I say the liberals are acting like morons, and they are, doesn’t mean I’m a Trump supporter or a Republican or a Fox watcher.
Trump is making the liberals look like fools. Plain and simple. That I realize this doesn’t make me a Trump supporter.
The liberals sent Hillary to battle. She sucked so badly that Trump, even with all the adjectives you use to describe him, beat her. Strangely, you blame Fox news for this and not the shortcomings of the liberal message.
When Clinton was getting his cigar smoked by “that woman” the message from the Democrat side was that the character of the person didn’t matter, it was what he accomplished as President.
Let the sour grapes continue.
August 22, 2017 at 10:32 AM #807719GuestSour grapes?
So in your book, the winner always has the best message?
Also did you consider that Trump won not because the majority voted for him, but because of the electoral college?Consider this: Walmart is best because is sells the most. Amazon too.
Oh, and Bill Clinton is relevant to Hillary because a woman is still responsible for the past actions of her husband. Sounds like retrograde thinking to me.
Character matters, by we can separate private consenting behavior from puclic life.
Back on the 1990s a blow job was a big deal. So trying to cover it up was understandable. Before that, having breast cancer or a child win down syndrome were shameful. Today, nobody much cares about those things anymore.I believe a democratic, progressive message of equity in a complex global world is very hard to convey. There are nuances and complexities that don’t translate well in a media landscape that is made of sound bites. And of course the right wing media like to rile up simple minded people to want badass policy responses. The right wing media push emotional buttons to illicit crass “what-the-tuck” responses.
August 23, 2017 at 10:57 AM #807727zk
Participant[quote=sdduuuude]
You know, zk and Harvey, fuck you both for calling me a Trump supporter.
[/quote]
I didn’t call you a trump supporter. I agreed with harvey’s statement that trump supporters have concluded that it’s wrong for trump non-supporters to attack him personally and that only attacks on his policies are valid.I could have included a sentence stating that sdduuuude isn’t necessarily a trump supporter, and I probably should have, but I didn’t think it was necessary at the time.
[quote=sdduuuude]
Just because I say the liberals are acting like morons, and they are,
[/quote]
How are liberals acting like morons, exactly?[quote=sdduuuude]
doesn’t mean I’m a Trump supporter or a Republican or a Fox watcher.
[/quote]No, but your position seems to be more consistent with fox propaganda than it does with common sense. And you’ve always seemed a common-sense type of guy, outside of politics. Hence the conjecture that you probably watch fox.
[quote=sdduuuude]
Trump is making the liberals look like fools. Plain and simple.
[/quote]How is that, exactly?
I would argue that he’s making his supporters (and therefore a sizeable majority of republicans) look pathetic and disgusting for supporting such a vile human being, and I’m quite curious to see how you think he’s making liberals look like fools.
[quote=sdduuuude]
The liberals sent Hillary to battle. She sucked so badly that Trump, even with all the adjectives you use to describe him, beat her. Strangely, you blame Fox news for this and not the shortcomings of the liberal message.
[/quote]Hillary was a very weak candidate. Mostly because many Americans had a very dim view of her, which was mostly due to fox et al. besmirching her for the past 30 years. Regardless of why she was weak, she was weak, and the democrats did send her to battle. Big mistake, I agree. But even with the dim view that most Americans had of her, she wouldn’t have lost to trump without a lot of help from fox (in addition to the help they provided by smearing her for decades). She wouldn’t have lost to a man who doesn’t deserve to be a high school teacher, let alone the president.
So I do blame fox (and the rest of the right-wing noise machine). They took a woman who was brilliant and tough, but lacked vision and warmth, and they tore her down while they built up trump, and they conned millions of Americans into thinking a man who is neither brilliant nor tough, and who also lacks vision and warmth, and who has the temperament of a 3rd grade bully, among countless other disqualifying personality traits, was better than her.
[quote=sdduuuude]
When Clinton was getting his cigar smoked by “that woman” the message from the Democrat side was that the character of the person didn’t matter, it was what he accomplished as President.
[/quote]See, it’s that kind of faulty reasoning that makes me think you watch right-wing media. I don’t understand how, without some kind of manipulation having occurred, a smart guy like you can’t see the problem with that logic. To wit: Getting your cigar smoked by an intern does not make you an ineffective president. Trump’s human failings do. If you can’t see how trump’s personal flaws make him a terrible president, ask me for a list. (If you do partake of non-right-wing media, you’ll already know this, as items on said list are reported by the NYT and WAPO quite regularly. One generally doesn’t see them on fox, though.)
[quote=sdduuuude]
Let the sour grapes continue.
[/quote]
Sour grapes means that you want something but can’t have it, and therefore conclude that that thing you wanted before you found out you couldn’t have it is bad. Doesn’t apply in this case.
People misuse that fable all the time, and it bugs me. Particularly when it’s used to somehow cast aspersions on any negative opinions and opine that those negative opinions are somehow invalid. If our president is a disaster of a human being such that it’s causing problems for our country, it is not sour grapes to call him out. It’s patriotic.
August 23, 2017 at 1:30 PM #807728
CoronitaParticipantYou know guys. Instead of congregating here and being unhappy about Trump, have you guys considered going to Breibart, registering for the forums, and trolling the regular alt-right posters there? It seems like for the same amount of time you would be spending, it would be a lot more entertaining for you. Plus you can affirm everything you already think about them.
Congregating here seems more like trying to form a support group. Which no offense looks pretty pathetic imho… No offense…
And it’s pretty interesting there these days after Bannon got fired.. you actually have a bunch of hardcore Bannon supporters there that are now calling Trump and Ivanka a liberal. And you have a bunch of hard core Trump supporters calling Breibart and Bannon fake news now…. It’s very entertaining. At the very least, you can try to understand how some people tick. Just a thought. I am there just to understand people I would never know in real life. I consider it an educational exercise.
August 23, 2017 at 2:21 PM #807729Participant[quote=flu]
You know guys. Instead of congregating here and being unhappy about Trump, have you guys considered going to Breibart, registering for the forums, and trolling the regular alt-right posters there? It seems like for the same amount of time you would be spending, it would be a lot more entertaining for you. Plus you can affirm everything you already think about them.
[/quote]
That would be entertaining. Trolling just isn’t my thing.[quote=flu]
Congregating here seems more like trying to form a support group. Which no offense looks pretty pathetic imho… No offense…
[/quote]Not trying to form a support group. Huge swaths of the of the country are pretty much a support group right now if I needed that. But I don’t need that.
What am I doing here? That would be a fine question. It really is a waste of time. I’m not changing anybody’s mind.
Sometimes it’s a challenge to understand an issue and then to frame a concept and to write a post well. Gotta work the brain sometimes. Although I have been rushing my writing recently. Maybe that’s the first step to quitting.
[quote=flu]
And it’s pretty interesting there these days after Bannon got fired.. you actually have a bunch of hardcore Bannon supporters there that are now calling Trump and Ivanka a liberal. And you have a bunch of hard core Trump supporters calling Breibart and Bannon fake news now…. It’s very entertaining. At the very least, you can try to understand how some people tick. Just a thought. I am there just to understand people I would never know in real life. I consider it an educational exercise.
[/quote]That’s admirable. It would certainly help if we all understood each other a little better. I’d be curious to hear any other insights you might’ve gained about them.
August 23, 2017 at 5:46 PM #807730
svelteParticipantagree with both flu and zk, or at least I can see their points of view above.
I’m not here that often, but when I do come by it is to try and get a better understanding of why the left and the right behave the way they do. It really baffles me. Every time I think I have a handle on it, something else happens that changes my mind. There are some bright minds on here that offer pretty insightful reads, more than I typically find on CNN or Fox or other sources.
I’ve never been a support group kinda guy. As a matter of fact, you can count on one hand the number of voluntary groups I’ve ever belonged to. Just not my thing. I’m kind of a loner.
Back to the first paragraph. One thing I am learning from all of this is that my theory that folks on the right were such jerks to Obama was because he was black was wrong for the most part. For most of them, that doesn’t appear to have been the reason. They have control of the govt, and they are being just as big of jerks to each other! Look at the sniping between congressmen and Trump, between Bannon and virtually everyone, Scaramucci’s little outburst, on and on. They just love to bash everything, not just the first black president! I’m not sure that makes me relieved or more upset, actually…
August 23, 2017 at 8:56 PM #807735Guest[quote=sdduuuude]You know, zk and Harvey, fuck you both for calling me a Trump supporter. Just because I say the liberals are acting like morons, and they are, doesn’t mean I’m a Trump supporter or a Republican or a Fox watcher.
Trump is making the liberals look like fools. Plain and simple. That I realize this doesn’t make me a Trump supporter.
The liberals sent Hillary to battle. She sucked so badly that Trump, even with all the adjectives you use to describe him, beat her. Strangely, you blame Fox news for this and not the shortcomings of the liberal message.
When Clinton was getting his cigar smoked by “that woman” the message from the Democrat side was that the character of the person didn’t matter, it was what he accomplished as President.
Let the sour grapes continue.[/quote]
Dude, if you wanna give Trump a blowjob, just ask him
August 23, 2017 at 10:20 PM #807736CoronitaParticipant[quote=zk]
That’s admirable. It would certainly help if we all understood each other a little better. I’d be curious to hear any other insights you might’ve gained about them.[/quote]There’s nothing admirable in what I am doing. I like to learn about how people think so I know what I’m up against in this world. I like to study people’s strength and weaknesses, their insecurities, and fears, and what makes them think and act a certain way.. It comes in handy at times, both to strengthen people you care about, and weaken people who pose a threat to you.
As the saying goes… Keep your friends close..But keep your enemies closer.
It’s a great movie, BTW..
But back to the original question… At the fringes of alt-right, at least from the message blogs Breibart board….A lot of alt-right actually hate Ivanka a lot. I think it’s a combination of them being a misogynist, and seeing a very capable woman, that is also attractive, and her excessive influence over Donald. They literally think Ivanka is a alt-left liberal. A lot of them think she was the primary reason why Bannon got fired. And started to hate Trump for letting her influence him so much (whether it’s real or not)… Jokingly, I mentioned it would be interesting if we saw an Ivanka/Hillary on the 2020 ticket together, and it wouldn’t be a bad thing….Judging from the reactions, if I said that in person, I probably would have gotten myself killed. lol…
If the moderates really are smart, they would try to figure out a way to make the alt-right/middle America divisive among themselves, so that they won’t be such a large voting block in the mid term. And the way to do this is to portray Trump as a moderate like Arnold (even if he isn’t). Many already feel he sold them out. Perception is reality, so if that were amplified, I think a given percentage of them would not be voting for him the second time around.
And this is where I think liberal media (like CNN) got it all wrong. Every single time media like CNN points out how horrible a statement, thing trump did or say, and provides dozens of commentary about how terrible Trump is, all this is doing is feeding the alt-right fire. They’ll continue to think “trump is right” CNN is fake news, media is not to be trusted, and stand even stronger with trump… On the other hand, if liberal media worded things in a way such as to portray some of the things Trump does is similar to Obama or what Hillary would be doing, it would feed the fire that some alt-right folks think Trump is a traitor. That’s why i think CNN and other liberal media are using the completely wrong strategy.
August 24, 2017 at 11:08 AM #807737GuestFirst CNN is not left. It’s center establishment.
Republicans have moved so far to the right that the center becomes left in their minds.The left wing media does make fun of Trump supporters. Like Louise Linton poor shaming the ugly, non fashionable women who are the wives of the deplorables.
August 24, 2017 at 12:13 PM #807738GuestZK, i disagree that Hillary was a bad candidate. She did try to adjust her message to the populists by rejecting TPP.
Trump’s win was the last stand is the retrogade deplorable in the rust belt. Why should we adjust our way is life for them? We should embrace globalization, diversity, multiculturalism, technology and innovation. The coal economy and incandescent light bulbs? Are you kidding me?
In a way, I’m glad Hillary lost because Trump is unmasking who the Republicans really are. There is no more plausible denial. The next generation will reject Trumpism like they rejected segregation and apartheid.
Trumpism has also spurred a lot of innovation at the state and local levels where people are adopting laws to counter Trump. Do people want to live in progressive enclaves like Charlottesville, Austin, or Columbus? Or do they want to live with their grandparents in red country in the red states? People will have to choose the lifestyle they want. If they choose wrong, oh well… too bad.
I believe the American people as a wholewill make the right choice. No need to placate the deplorables. Remember Hillary won the popular vote.
August 24, 2017 at 12:29 PM #807739CoronitaParticipantOh CNN is totally left. At least the website is and the majority of the editorials they choose to run. If you can’t see that, you are blind.
BBC is much more centered imho.
August 24, 2017 at 2:01 PM #807740Guest[quote=flu]Oh CNN is totally left. At least the website is and the majority of the editorials they choose to run. If you can’t see that, you are blind.
BBC is much more centered imho.[/quote]
What standards are you using? CNN in relation to Breitbart?
Breitbart wants culture war and the dismantling of the state. Bannon said so. CNN is just very moderate “within the establishment” model.
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