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April 2, 2009 at 2:03 PM #376246April 2, 2009 at 6:54 PM #376149CA renterParticipant
All excellent posts!
While talking to another poster by phone today, we were musing about what was really going on. Here are some of my thoughts:
After physically seeing a very real deterioration in the economy last fall and winter — once exceedingly busy restaurants and shops were suddenly almost empty, and many people “on the street” telling me about how slow their business suddenly got — there appeared to be a rather significant turnaround around the beginning of the year (around February, and accelerating through March). Stores, restaurants and other businesses are now suddenly busy again, and proprietors are telling me about the pick-up which they can’t explain, but are very grateful for. Addditionally, the housing market has definitely picked up since last fall/winter, when things were finally looking like they might be coming back to sanity.
Concurrent with this pick up in activity are more and more stories about people who have chosen to stop paying their mortgages, while others have renegotiated with their lenders, sometimes getting a principal reduction, and getting much lower rates — often temporary rate reductions (3-5 years), which is a bit mind-boggling. Hasn’t anyone learned anything?
Lenders are telling people to stop paying their mortgages so they can re-work them, and someone posted somewhere (here) about HUD telling a borrower to short-sell their house and buy it back through a third party! Basically, that’s letting these over-encumbered scammers to just name the price they want to pay, because agents are not obligateted to send all offers to the lenders (that REALLY has to change, BTW). The FBs can just put in an offer for 30% of their original loan and submit only that offer, getting a 70% discount from the price the originally wanted to pay!
Anyway, how much of today’s economic activity is due to the “hidden stimulus” of people who are no longer making a housing payment…month after month after month? A big deal was made of Bush’s one-time, $600 checks last year. Imagine what $2,000-$3,000 per month, every month, will do.
In the meantime, the new mark-to-market rules will hide all these losses, and the government (that’s us, again!) will buy up all the “toxic paper which cannot be valued” at full price, or even 70 cents on the dollar. Paper that is technically worthless or maybe worth 20-30 cents on the dollar will be bought up by the govt and the bankers/lenders will be made relatively whole at our expense.
Technically, it might work. From a moral hazard perspective, it stinks!
April 2, 2009 at 6:54 PM #375644CA renterParticipantAll excellent posts!
While talking to another poster by phone today, we were musing about what was really going on. Here are some of my thoughts:
After physically seeing a very real deterioration in the economy last fall and winter — once exceedingly busy restaurants and shops were suddenly almost empty, and many people “on the street” telling me about how slow their business suddenly got — there appeared to be a rather significant turnaround around the beginning of the year (around February, and accelerating through March). Stores, restaurants and other businesses are now suddenly busy again, and proprietors are telling me about the pick-up which they can’t explain, but are very grateful for. Addditionally, the housing market has definitely picked up since last fall/winter, when things were finally looking like they might be coming back to sanity.
Concurrent with this pick up in activity are more and more stories about people who have chosen to stop paying their mortgages, while others have renegotiated with their lenders, sometimes getting a principal reduction, and getting much lower rates — often temporary rate reductions (3-5 years), which is a bit mind-boggling. Hasn’t anyone learned anything?
Lenders are telling people to stop paying their mortgages so they can re-work them, and someone posted somewhere (here) about HUD telling a borrower to short-sell their house and buy it back through a third party! Basically, that’s letting these over-encumbered scammers to just name the price they want to pay, because agents are not obligateted to send all offers to the lenders (that REALLY has to change, BTW). The FBs can just put in an offer for 30% of their original loan and submit only that offer, getting a 70% discount from the price the originally wanted to pay!
Anyway, how much of today’s economic activity is due to the “hidden stimulus” of people who are no longer making a housing payment…month after month after month? A big deal was made of Bush’s one-time, $600 checks last year. Imagine what $2,000-$3,000 per month, every month, will do.
In the meantime, the new mark-to-market rules will hide all these losses, and the government (that’s us, again!) will buy up all the “toxic paper which cannot be valued” at full price, or even 70 cents on the dollar. Paper that is technically worthless or maybe worth 20-30 cents on the dollar will be bought up by the govt and the bankers/lenders will be made relatively whole at our expense.
Technically, it might work. From a moral hazard perspective, it stinks!
April 2, 2009 at 6:54 PM #376106CA renterParticipantAll excellent posts!
While talking to another poster by phone today, we were musing about what was really going on. Here are some of my thoughts:
After physically seeing a very real deterioration in the economy last fall and winter — once exceedingly busy restaurants and shops were suddenly almost empty, and many people “on the street” telling me about how slow their business suddenly got — there appeared to be a rather significant turnaround around the beginning of the year (around February, and accelerating through March). Stores, restaurants and other businesses are now suddenly busy again, and proprietors are telling me about the pick-up which they can’t explain, but are very grateful for. Addditionally, the housing market has definitely picked up since last fall/winter, when things were finally looking like they might be coming back to sanity.
Concurrent with this pick up in activity are more and more stories about people who have chosen to stop paying their mortgages, while others have renegotiated with their lenders, sometimes getting a principal reduction, and getting much lower rates — often temporary rate reductions (3-5 years), which is a bit mind-boggling. Hasn’t anyone learned anything?
Lenders are telling people to stop paying their mortgages so they can re-work them, and someone posted somewhere (here) about HUD telling a borrower to short-sell their house and buy it back through a third party! Basically, that’s letting these over-encumbered scammers to just name the price they want to pay, because agents are not obligateted to send all offers to the lenders (that REALLY has to change, BTW). The FBs can just put in an offer for 30% of their original loan and submit only that offer, getting a 70% discount from the price the originally wanted to pay!
Anyway, how much of today’s economic activity is due to the “hidden stimulus” of people who are no longer making a housing payment…month after month after month? A big deal was made of Bush’s one-time, $600 checks last year. Imagine what $2,000-$3,000 per month, every month, will do.
In the meantime, the new mark-to-market rules will hide all these losses, and the government (that’s us, again!) will buy up all the “toxic paper which cannot be valued” at full price, or even 70 cents on the dollar. Paper that is technically worthless or maybe worth 20-30 cents on the dollar will be bought up by the govt and the bankers/lenders will be made relatively whole at our expense.
Technically, it might work. From a moral hazard perspective, it stinks!
April 2, 2009 at 6:54 PM #376271CA renterParticipantAll excellent posts!
While talking to another poster by phone today, we were musing about what was really going on. Here are some of my thoughts:
After physically seeing a very real deterioration in the economy last fall and winter — once exceedingly busy restaurants and shops were suddenly almost empty, and many people “on the street” telling me about how slow their business suddenly got — there appeared to be a rather significant turnaround around the beginning of the year (around February, and accelerating through March). Stores, restaurants and other businesses are now suddenly busy again, and proprietors are telling me about the pick-up which they can’t explain, but are very grateful for. Addditionally, the housing market has definitely picked up since last fall/winter, when things were finally looking like they might be coming back to sanity.
Concurrent with this pick up in activity are more and more stories about people who have chosen to stop paying their mortgages, while others have renegotiated with their lenders, sometimes getting a principal reduction, and getting much lower rates — often temporary rate reductions (3-5 years), which is a bit mind-boggling. Hasn’t anyone learned anything?
Lenders are telling people to stop paying their mortgages so they can re-work them, and someone posted somewhere (here) about HUD telling a borrower to short-sell their house and buy it back through a third party! Basically, that’s letting these over-encumbered scammers to just name the price they want to pay, because agents are not obligateted to send all offers to the lenders (that REALLY has to change, BTW). The FBs can just put in an offer for 30% of their original loan and submit only that offer, getting a 70% discount from the price the originally wanted to pay!
Anyway, how much of today’s economic activity is due to the “hidden stimulus” of people who are no longer making a housing payment…month after month after month? A big deal was made of Bush’s one-time, $600 checks last year. Imagine what $2,000-$3,000 per month, every month, will do.
In the meantime, the new mark-to-market rules will hide all these losses, and the government (that’s us, again!) will buy up all the “toxic paper which cannot be valued” at full price, or even 70 cents on the dollar. Paper that is technically worthless or maybe worth 20-30 cents on the dollar will be bought up by the govt and the bankers/lenders will be made relatively whole at our expense.
Technically, it might work. From a moral hazard perspective, it stinks!
April 2, 2009 at 6:54 PM #375928CA renterParticipantAll excellent posts!
While talking to another poster by phone today, we were musing about what was really going on. Here are some of my thoughts:
After physically seeing a very real deterioration in the economy last fall and winter — once exceedingly busy restaurants and shops were suddenly almost empty, and many people “on the street” telling me about how slow their business suddenly got — there appeared to be a rather significant turnaround around the beginning of the year (around February, and accelerating through March). Stores, restaurants and other businesses are now suddenly busy again, and proprietors are telling me about the pick-up which they can’t explain, but are very grateful for. Addditionally, the housing market has definitely picked up since last fall/winter, when things were finally looking like they might be coming back to sanity.
Concurrent with this pick up in activity are more and more stories about people who have chosen to stop paying their mortgages, while others have renegotiated with their lenders, sometimes getting a principal reduction, and getting much lower rates — often temporary rate reductions (3-5 years), which is a bit mind-boggling. Hasn’t anyone learned anything?
Lenders are telling people to stop paying their mortgages so they can re-work them, and someone posted somewhere (here) about HUD telling a borrower to short-sell their house and buy it back through a third party! Basically, that’s letting these over-encumbered scammers to just name the price they want to pay, because agents are not obligateted to send all offers to the lenders (that REALLY has to change, BTW). The FBs can just put in an offer for 30% of their original loan and submit only that offer, getting a 70% discount from the price the originally wanted to pay!
Anyway, how much of today’s economic activity is due to the “hidden stimulus” of people who are no longer making a housing payment…month after month after month? A big deal was made of Bush’s one-time, $600 checks last year. Imagine what $2,000-$3,000 per month, every month, will do.
In the meantime, the new mark-to-market rules will hide all these losses, and the government (that’s us, again!) will buy up all the “toxic paper which cannot be valued” at full price, or even 70 cents on the dollar. Paper that is technically worthless or maybe worth 20-30 cents on the dollar will be bought up by the govt and the bankers/lenders will be made relatively whole at our expense.
Technically, it might work. From a moral hazard perspective, it stinks!
April 2, 2009 at 8:44 PM #375664NotCrankyParticipant[/quote]
[quote=TheBreeze]The only way to stop it will be to unhinge the oligarchy’s death grip on money and power.
[/quote]Bingo. So how are we going to accomplish that? THIS is the real question that needs to be addressed globally, because this is clearly no longer an “American” problem. The oligarchs are making a power grab worldwide, and Obama is one of their 20 or so grinning fools/tools.
[/quote]
Partypup,
We are not going to stop anything.Nor are we going to sink into chaos as a result of “globalism”. Look for something somewhere on a continuem,between Chaos and life as you know it or knew it, with shocks like the current “crisis”, on the way to a lower standard of getting and spending for Americans on average.The international gatherings of “leadership” the last few days are about how to get to,or continue on the path to, Global Oligarchy and mitigate the shocks along the way. The planet is going there. We are not going to stop it.What is that going to do to you over the next 20-50 years? What are you going to do about it. These are the questions because we are not going to stop it.
I think it will help preclude massive war, so that is a plus.In fact it might be the only possible alternative to nuclear destruction of half the planet. Not going to stop a few countries from being further destroyed though … unjustly so, in my opinion.
April 2, 2009 at 8:44 PM #375948NotCrankyParticipant[/quote]
[quote=TheBreeze]The only way to stop it will be to unhinge the oligarchy’s death grip on money and power.
[/quote]Bingo. So how are we going to accomplish that? THIS is the real question that needs to be addressed globally, because this is clearly no longer an “American” problem. The oligarchs are making a power grab worldwide, and Obama is one of their 20 or so grinning fools/tools.
[/quote]
Partypup,
We are not going to stop anything.Nor are we going to sink into chaos as a result of “globalism”. Look for something somewhere on a continuem,between Chaos and life as you know it or knew it, with shocks like the current “crisis”, on the way to a lower standard of getting and spending for Americans on average.The international gatherings of “leadership” the last few days are about how to get to,or continue on the path to, Global Oligarchy and mitigate the shocks along the way. The planet is going there. We are not going to stop it.What is that going to do to you over the next 20-50 years? What are you going to do about it. These are the questions because we are not going to stop it.
I think it will help preclude massive war, so that is a plus.In fact it might be the only possible alternative to nuclear destruction of half the planet. Not going to stop a few countries from being further destroyed though … unjustly so, in my opinion.
April 2, 2009 at 8:44 PM #376126NotCrankyParticipant[/quote]
[quote=TheBreeze]The only way to stop it will be to unhinge the oligarchy’s death grip on money and power.
[/quote]Bingo. So how are we going to accomplish that? THIS is the real question that needs to be addressed globally, because this is clearly no longer an “American” problem. The oligarchs are making a power grab worldwide, and Obama is one of their 20 or so grinning fools/tools.
[/quote]
Partypup,
We are not going to stop anything.Nor are we going to sink into chaos as a result of “globalism”. Look for something somewhere on a continuem,between Chaos and life as you know it or knew it, with shocks like the current “crisis”, on the way to a lower standard of getting and spending for Americans on average.The international gatherings of “leadership” the last few days are about how to get to,or continue on the path to, Global Oligarchy and mitigate the shocks along the way. The planet is going there. We are not going to stop it.What is that going to do to you over the next 20-50 years? What are you going to do about it. These are the questions because we are not going to stop it.
I think it will help preclude massive war, so that is a plus.In fact it might be the only possible alternative to nuclear destruction of half the planet. Not going to stop a few countries from being further destroyed though … unjustly so, in my opinion.
April 2, 2009 at 8:44 PM #376290NotCrankyParticipant[/quote]
[quote=TheBreeze]The only way to stop it will be to unhinge the oligarchy’s death grip on money and power.
[/quote]Bingo. So how are we going to accomplish that? THIS is the real question that needs to be addressed globally, because this is clearly no longer an “American” problem. The oligarchs are making a power grab worldwide, and Obama is one of their 20 or so grinning fools/tools.
[/quote]
Partypup,
We are not going to stop anything.Nor are we going to sink into chaos as a result of “globalism”. Look for something somewhere on a continuem,between Chaos and life as you know it or knew it, with shocks like the current “crisis”, on the way to a lower standard of getting and spending for Americans on average.The international gatherings of “leadership” the last few days are about how to get to,or continue on the path to, Global Oligarchy and mitigate the shocks along the way. The planet is going there. We are not going to stop it.What is that going to do to you over the next 20-50 years? What are you going to do about it. These are the questions because we are not going to stop it.
I think it will help preclude massive war, so that is a plus.In fact it might be the only possible alternative to nuclear destruction of half the planet. Not going to stop a few countries from being further destroyed though … unjustly so, in my opinion.
April 2, 2009 at 8:44 PM #376168NotCrankyParticipant[/quote]
[quote=TheBreeze]The only way to stop it will be to unhinge the oligarchy’s death grip on money and power.
[/quote]Bingo. So how are we going to accomplish that? THIS is the real question that needs to be addressed globally, because this is clearly no longer an “American” problem. The oligarchs are making a power grab worldwide, and Obama is one of their 20 or so grinning fools/tools.
[/quote]
Partypup,
We are not going to stop anything.Nor are we going to sink into chaos as a result of “globalism”. Look for something somewhere on a continuem,between Chaos and life as you know it or knew it, with shocks like the current “crisis”, on the way to a lower standard of getting and spending for Americans on average.The international gatherings of “leadership” the last few days are about how to get to,or continue on the path to, Global Oligarchy and mitigate the shocks along the way. The planet is going there. We are not going to stop it.What is that going to do to you over the next 20-50 years? What are you going to do about it. These are the questions because we are not going to stop it.
I think it will help preclude massive war, so that is a plus.In fact it might be the only possible alternative to nuclear destruction of half the planet. Not going to stop a few countries from being further destroyed though … unjustly so, in my opinion.
April 2, 2009 at 10:33 PM #376151ArrayaParticipant[img_assist|nid=10732|title=G-20|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=909|height=600]
Oh, come on Rus, don’t be such a pessimist.
April 2, 2009 at 10:33 PM #376194ArrayaParticipant[img_assist|nid=10732|title=G-20|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=909|height=600]
Oh, come on Rus, don’t be such a pessimist.
April 2, 2009 at 10:33 PM #375972ArrayaParticipant[img_assist|nid=10732|title=G-20|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=909|height=600]
Oh, come on Rus, don’t be such a pessimist.
April 2, 2009 at 10:33 PM #376315ArrayaParticipant[img_assist|nid=10732|title=G-20|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=909|height=600]
Oh, come on Rus, don’t be such a pessimist.
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