The Forgotten Man

[underdose]

[quote]
As one smart guy said long time ago, “From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs”.
[/quote]

Smart guy? Who? Karl Marx?

I agree with you that ability is largely a genetic accident. I call it the DNA lottery. I make decent money because I am good with computers and can automate getting a lot done with little physical effort, but a lot of mental effort and creativity. To a degree I earned it because I went to school to learn computer science and worked my tail off to learn it as best I could and get good grades. But to a degree I recognize that I was born with a predisposition for it, some freakish gift that my synapses are wired just so that analytical reasoning comes easily to me. Is it fair? Maybe not. But should I be punished for the misfortune of being born with ability? What justice would there be in that? And how much incentive would I feel to employ my natural born gifts if I am required to bear a disproportionate load? I’d be better served to fein disability, and claim extraordinary needs.

esmith, you are taking it too far to the other extreme. The key is to try to have empathy for everyone. Put yourself in the shoes of anyone in society. What if you had by accident been born with a predisposition to practice medicine. Would you want socialized medicine? Would you want to be essentially enslaved by the government? What if you had been born in poverty with below average intelligence and no hope of acquiring white collar skills? Would you want a purely capitalistic meritocracy? The tough thing is that no system is fair to everyone. But some systems are so extremely unfair to some segment of the population that they are down right oppressive. If you want full blown communism, from those with ability to those with needs, well, as John Lennon said:

If you go carrying pictures of Chairman Mao
You ain’t gonna make it with anyone any how

[underdose]

[quote]
As one smart guy said long time ago, “From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs”.
[/quote]

Smart guy? Who? Karl Marx?

I agree with you that ability is largely a genetic accident. I call it the DNA lottery. I make decent money because I am good with computers and can automate getting a lot done with little physical effort, but a lot of mental effort and creativity. To a degree I earned it because I went to school to learn computer science and worked my tail off to learn it as best I could and get good grades. But to a degree I recognize that I was born with a predisposition for it, some freakish gift that my synapses are wired just so that analytical reasoning comes easily to me. Is it fair? Maybe not. But should I be punished for the misfortune of being born with ability? What justice would there be in that? And how much incentive would I feel to employ my natural born gifts if I am required to bear a disproportionate load? I’d be better served to fein disability, and claim extraordinary needs.

esmith, you are taking it too far to the other extreme. The key is to try to have empathy for everyone. Put yourself in the shoes of anyone in society. What if you had by accident been born with a predisposition to practice medicine. Would you want socialized medicine? Would you want to be essentially enslaved by the government? What if you had been born in poverty with below average intelligence and no hope of acquiring white collar skills? Would you want a purely capitalistic meritocracy? The tough thing is that no system is fair to everyone. But some systems are so extremely unfair to some segment of the population that they are down right oppressive. If you want full blown communism, from those with ability to those with needs, well, as John Lennon said:

If you go carrying pictures of Chairman Mao
You ain’t gonna make it with anyone any how

[underdose]

[quote]
As one smart guy said long time ago, “From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs”.
[/quote]

Smart guy? Who? Karl Marx?

I agree with you that ability is largely a genetic accident. I call it the DNA lottery. I make decent money because I am good with computers and can automate getting a lot done with little physical effort, but a lot of mental effort and creativity. To a degree I earned it because I went to school to learn computer science and worked my tail off to learn it as best I could and get good grades. But to a degree I recognize that I was born with a predisposition for it, some freakish gift that my synapses are wired just so that analytical reasoning comes easily to me. Is it fair? Maybe not. But should I be punished for the misfortune of being born with ability? What justice would there be in that? And how much incentive would I feel to employ my natural born gifts if I am required to bear a disproportionate load? I’d be better served to fein disability, and claim extraordinary needs.

esmith, you are taking it too far to the other extreme. The key is to try to have empathy for everyone. Put yourself in the shoes of anyone in society. What if you had by accident been born with a predisposition to practice medicine. Would you want socialized medicine? Would you want to be essentially enslaved by the government? What if you had been born in poverty with below average intelligence and no hope of acquiring white collar skills? Would you want a purely capitalistic meritocracy? The tough thing is that no system is fair to everyone. But some systems are so extremely unfair to some segment of the population that they are down right oppressive. If you want full blown communism, from those with ability to those with needs, well, as John Lennon said:

If you go carrying pictures of Chairman Mao
You ain’t gonna make it with anyone any how

[Eugene]

Smart guy? Who? Karl Marx?

Yep

? Maybe not. But should I be punished for the misfortune of being born with ability? What justice would there be in that? And how much incentive would I feel to employ my natural born gifts if I am required to bear a disproportionate load? I’d be better served to fein disability, and claim extraordinary needs

You are not punished. You pay more taxes, but you get to keep orders of magnitude more money than poor people get from the government. Between cash and food stamps, welfare recipients average less than $1000/month per family. (The average was $600 in 2001, don’t know about today) How would you like to raise a couple of kids on that income?

You were fortunate because you won the DNA lottery. And also because you were able to survive till adulthood, you were well-fed and you could afford to spend time with computers, instead of spending evenings washing dishes at Denny’s for minimum wage through high school. Then someone must have paid good money to send you to college. It costs upwards of $60,000 to get a bachelor’s degree in a typical private university. Computers may be an exception – formal diploma is not as necessary – but many other high-paying jobs have high up-front costs.

In a pure capitalist society without government, none of it is a given. There would be no healthcare for poor, no government-sponsored public universities like UCSD, no federal student loans, etc.

[Eugene]

Smart guy? Who? Karl Marx?

Yep

? Maybe not. But should I be punished for the misfortune of being born with ability? What justice would there be in that? And how much incentive would I feel to employ my natural born gifts if I am required to bear a disproportionate load? I’d be better served to fein disability, and claim extraordinary needs

You are not punished. You pay more taxes, but you get to keep orders of magnitude more money than poor people get from the government. Between cash and food stamps, welfare recipients average less than $1000/month per family. (The average was $600 in 2001, don’t know about today) How would you like to raise a couple of kids on that income?

You were fortunate because you won the DNA lottery. And also because you were able to survive till adulthood, you were well-fed and you could afford to spend time with computers, instead of spending evenings washing dishes at Denny’s for minimum wage through high school. Then someone must have paid good money to send you to college. It costs upwards of $60,000 to get a bachelor’s degree in a typical private university. Computers may be an exception – formal diploma is not as necessary – but many other high-paying jobs have high up-front costs.

In a pure capitalist society without government, none of it is a given. There would be no healthcare for poor, no government-sponsored public universities like UCSD, no federal student loans, etc.

[Eugene]

Smart guy? Who? Karl Marx?

Yep

? Maybe not. But should I be punished for the misfortune of being born with ability? What justice would there be in that? And how much incentive would I feel to employ my natural born gifts if I am required to bear a disproportionate load? I’d be better served to fein disability, and claim extraordinary needs

You are not punished. You pay more taxes, but you get to keep orders of magnitude more money than poor people get from the government. Between cash and food stamps, welfare recipients average less than $1000/month per family. (The average was $600 in 2001, don’t know about today) How would you like to raise a couple of kids on that income?

You were fortunate because you won the DNA lottery. And also because you were able to survive till adulthood, you were well-fed and you could afford to spend time with computers, instead of spending evenings washing dishes at Denny’s for minimum wage through high school. Then someone must have paid good money to send you to college. It costs upwards of $60,000 to get a bachelor’s degree in a typical private university. Computers may be an exception – formal diploma is not as necessary – but many other high-paying jobs have high up-front costs.

In a pure capitalist society without government, none of it is a given. There would be no healthcare for poor, no government-sponsored public universities like UCSD, no federal student loans, etc.

[Eugene]

Smart guy? Who? Karl Marx?

Yep

? Maybe not. But should I be punished for the misfortune of being born with ability? What justice would there be in that? And how much incentive would I feel to employ my natural born gifts if I am required to bear a disproportionate load? I’d be better served to fein disability, and claim extraordinary needs

You are not punished. You pay more taxes, but you get to keep orders of magnitude more money than poor people get from the government. Between cash and food stamps, welfare recipients average less than $1000/month per family. (The average was $600 in 2001, don’t know about today) How would you like to raise a couple of kids on that income?

You were fortunate because you won the DNA lottery. And also because you were able to survive till adulthood, you were well-fed and you could afford to spend time with computers, instead of spending evenings washing dishes at Denny’s for minimum wage through high school. Then someone must have paid good money to send you to college. It costs upwards of $60,000 to get a bachelor’s degree in a typical private university. Computers may be an exception – formal diploma is not as necessary – but many other high-paying jobs have high up-front costs.

In a pure capitalist society without government, none of it is a given. There would be no healthcare for poor, no government-sponsored public universities like UCSD, no federal student loans, etc.

[Eugene]

Smart guy? Who? Karl Marx?

Yep

? Maybe not. But should I be punished for the misfortune of being born with ability? What justice would there be in that? And how much incentive would I feel to employ my natural born gifts if I am required to bear a disproportionate load? I’d be better served to fein disability, and claim extraordinary needs

You are not punished. You pay more taxes, but you get to keep orders of magnitude more money than poor people get from the government. Between cash and food stamps, welfare recipients average less than $1000/month per family. (The average was $600 in 2001, don’t know about today) How would you like to raise a couple of kids on that income?

You were fortunate because you won the DNA lottery. And also because you were able to survive till adulthood, you were well-fed and you could afford to spend time with computers, instead of spending evenings washing dishes at Denny’s for minimum wage through high school. Then someone must have paid good money to send you to college. It costs upwards of $60,000 to get a bachelor’s degree in a typical private university. Computers may be an exception – formal diploma is not as necessary – but many other high-paying jobs have high up-front costs.

In a pure capitalist society without government, none of it is a given. There would be no healthcare for poor, no government-sponsored public universities like UCSD, no federal student loans, etc.

[kewp]

Here is a great example of the hardworking elite enjoying the fruits of our labor:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/livecoverage/2008/10/after_bailout_aig_executives_h.html

[kewp]

Here is a great example of the hardworking elite enjoying the fruits of our labor:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/livecoverage/2008/10/after_bailout_aig_executives_h.html

[kewp]

Here is a great example of the hardworking elite enjoying the fruits of our labor:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/livecoverage/2008/10/after_bailout_aig_executives_h.html

[kewp]

Here is a great example of the hardworking elite enjoying the fruits of our labor:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/livecoverage/2008/10/after_bailout_aig_executives_h.html

[kewp]

Here is a great example of the hardworking elite enjoying the fruits of our labor:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/livecoverage/2008/10/after_bailout_aig_executives_h.html

[CA renter]

Very much in agreement with esmith here.

Nobody in his/her right mind is claiming that all people should have exactly the same income or wealth, irrespective of their efforts, education, luck, etc. But there should be some more reasonable ratio where the disparity is not so great as to cause great suffering among the greatest number of people.

Ultimately, if you don’t protect those who are less fortunate, you end up with something that more closely resembles Mexico or a number of African nations where the few wealthy live in guarded homes and drive armoured cars and live in fear of their children being kidnapped, etc. That’s what wealth disparity does. It does not make the less fortunate more productive, it makes them more violent.

Progressive taxes are more like buying protection against violent crime and revolutions. It is the wealthy who benefit at least as much as the poor.

[CA renter]

Very much in agreement with esmith here.

Nobody in his/her right mind is claiming that all people should have exactly the same income or wealth, irrespective of their efforts, education, luck, etc. But there should be some more reasonable ratio where the disparity is not so great as to cause great suffering among the greatest number of people.

Ultimately, if you don’t protect those who are less fortunate, you end up with something that more closely resembles Mexico or a number of African nations where the few wealthy live in guarded homes and drive armoured cars and live in fear of their children being kidnapped, etc. That’s what wealth disparity does. It does not make the less fortunate more productive, it makes them more violent.

Progressive taxes are more like buying protection against violent crime and revolutions. It is the wealthy who benefit at least as much as the poor.

[Author]

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