The Forgotten Man

[gary_broker]

TheBreeze..
You made many assumptions in your post and they are highly inaccurate. My handle is gary_broker, however I own a fashion co that designs and sell items to a wide variety of stores throughout the U.S. and Asia. I also have a RE brokers license hence my handle (btw I should prolly head you off here and inform you that I never did sub-prime or bilked anyone out of money).

You wrote “As far as risking your life savings goes, most business owners choose to incorporate to protect themselves from personal liability”. Incorporation protects against liability but it does nothing to protect seed investment which is generally hard earned savings put up by people like me. The company goes south the money is gone.. end of story.

I am a bit perplexed over the contingency of folks posting here who believe many rich people just somehow get lucky (FYI..I am far from rich, I live in a extremely modest house and as I previously stated make less then some of my employees). I do know some folks that are very successful and the bottom line is they work their asses off. Like me they usually work through weekends and late nearly every night. They do it because they love what they do and they feel an obligation to grow their companies not only for the benefit of themselves but also for their employees. It appears that what some people here are doing is taking some extreme examples from the current economic crises and extrapolating them into the theory that all business owners are all greedy and capitalism does not work. That is lame.

In my previous post I asked you to provide an amount that you believe was fair for wealthy people to pay in taxes. I posted some stats and someone else posted some as well. Perhaps you can copy those numbers and then edit them at the percentage value that you believe would be fair. I am interested to see what you come up with.

[gary_broker]

TheBreeze..
You made many assumptions in your post and they are highly inaccurate. My handle is gary_broker, however I own a fashion co that designs and sell items to a wide variety of stores throughout the U.S. and Asia. I also have a RE brokers license hence my handle (btw I should prolly head you off here and inform you that I never did sub-prime or bilked anyone out of money).

You wrote “As far as risking your life savings goes, most business owners choose to incorporate to protect themselves from personal liability”. Incorporation protects against liability but it does nothing to protect seed investment which is generally hard earned savings put up by people like me. The company goes south the money is gone.. end of story.

I am a bit perplexed over the contingency of folks posting here who believe many rich people just somehow get lucky (FYI..I am far from rich, I live in a extremely modest house and as I previously stated make less then some of my employees). I do know some folks that are very successful and the bottom line is they work their asses off. Like me they usually work through weekends and late nearly every night. They do it because they love what they do and they feel an obligation to grow their companies not only for the benefit of themselves but also for their employees. It appears that what some people here are doing is taking some extreme examples from the current economic crises and extrapolating them into the theory that all business owners are all greedy and capitalism does not work. That is lame.

In my previous post I asked you to provide an amount that you believe was fair for wealthy people to pay in taxes. I posted some stats and someone else posted some as well. Perhaps you can copy those numbers and then edit them at the percentage value that you believe would be fair. I am interested to see what you come up with.

[gary_broker]

TheBreeze..
You made many assumptions in your post and they are highly inaccurate. My handle is gary_broker, however I own a fashion co that designs and sell items to a wide variety of stores throughout the U.S. and Asia. I also have a RE brokers license hence my handle (btw I should prolly head you off here and inform you that I never did sub-prime or bilked anyone out of money).

You wrote “As far as risking your life savings goes, most business owners choose to incorporate to protect themselves from personal liability”. Incorporation protects against liability but it does nothing to protect seed investment which is generally hard earned savings put up by people like me. The company goes south the money is gone.. end of story.

I am a bit perplexed over the contingency of folks posting here who believe many rich people just somehow get lucky (FYI..I am far from rich, I live in a extremely modest house and as I previously stated make less then some of my employees). I do know some folks that are very successful and the bottom line is they work their asses off. Like me they usually work through weekends and late nearly every night. They do it because they love what they do and they feel an obligation to grow their companies not only for the benefit of themselves but also for their employees. It appears that what some people here are doing is taking some extreme examples from the current economic crises and extrapolating them into the theory that all business owners are all greedy and capitalism does not work. That is lame.

In my previous post I asked you to provide an amount that you believe was fair for wealthy people to pay in taxes. I posted some stats and someone else posted some as well. Perhaps you can copy those numbers and then edit them at the percentage value that you believe would be fair. I am interested to see what you come up with.

[kewp]

It appears that what some people here are doing is taking some extreme examples from the current economic crises and extrapolating them into the theory that all business owners are all greedy and capitalism does not work.

Nobody said that from what I can see.

My main point is we *all* have to shoulder the burden of a problem that was exclusively created by the super-rich.

I don’t see why I should have to pay welfare to rich bankers. Increase the tax burden of the wealthiest 5% to fund the bailout. They made the most profit on the way up; they should stand to lose the most on the way down.

[kewp]

It appears that what some people here are doing is taking some extreme examples from the current economic crises and extrapolating them into the theory that all business owners are all greedy and capitalism does not work.

Nobody said that from what I can see.

My main point is we *all* have to shoulder the burden of a problem that was exclusively created by the super-rich.

I don’t see why I should have to pay welfare to rich bankers. Increase the tax burden of the wealthiest 5% to fund the bailout. They made the most profit on the way up; they should stand to lose the most on the way down.

[kewp]

It appears that what some people here are doing is taking some extreme examples from the current economic crises and extrapolating them into the theory that all business owners are all greedy and capitalism does not work.

Nobody said that from what I can see.

My main point is we *all* have to shoulder the burden of a problem that was exclusively created by the super-rich.

I don’t see why I should have to pay welfare to rich bankers. Increase the tax burden of the wealthiest 5% to fund the bailout. They made the most profit on the way up; they should stand to lose the most on the way down.

[kewp]

It appears that what some people here are doing is taking some extreme examples from the current economic crises and extrapolating them into the theory that all business owners are all greedy and capitalism does not work.

Nobody said that from what I can see.

My main point is we *all* have to shoulder the burden of a problem that was exclusively created by the super-rich.

I don’t see why I should have to pay welfare to rich bankers. Increase the tax burden of the wealthiest 5% to fund the bailout. They made the most profit on the way up; they should stand to lose the most on the way down.

[kewp]

It appears that what some people here are doing is taking some extreme examples from the current economic crises and extrapolating them into the theory that all business owners are all greedy and capitalism does not work.

Nobody said that from what I can see.

My main point is we *all* have to shoulder the burden of a problem that was exclusively created by the super-rich.

I don’t see why I should have to pay welfare to rich bankers. Increase the tax burden of the wealthiest 5% to fund the bailout. They made the most profit on the way up; they should stand to lose the most on the way down.

[gary_broker]

Kewp..”a problem that was exclusively created by the super-rich”

I think the reality is that we are being forced to bail out a wide spectrum of greed that began with specuvestors applying for loans that they had little chance ever of paying back. To blame this entire mess on rich is inaccuate. There were many forces at work and they all have blood on their hands.

[gary_broker]

Kewp..”a problem that was exclusively created by the super-rich”

I think the reality is that we are being forced to bail out a wide spectrum of greed that began with specuvestors applying for loans that they had little chance ever of paying back. To blame this entire mess on rich is inaccuate. There were many forces at work and they all have blood on their hands.

[gary_broker]

Kewp..”a problem that was exclusively created by the super-rich”

I think the reality is that we are being forced to bail out a wide spectrum of greed that began with specuvestors applying for loans that they had little chance ever of paying back. To blame this entire mess on rich is inaccuate. There were many forces at work and they all have blood on their hands.

[gary_broker]

Kewp..”a problem that was exclusively created by the super-rich”

I think the reality is that we are being forced to bail out a wide spectrum of greed that began with specuvestors applying for loans that they had little chance ever of paying back. To blame this entire mess on rich is inaccuate. There were many forces at work and they all have blood on their hands.

[gary_broker]

Kewp..”a problem that was exclusively created by the super-rich”

I think the reality is that we are being forced to bail out a wide spectrum of greed that began with specuvestors applying for loans that they had little chance ever of paying back. To blame this entire mess on rich is inaccuate. There were many forces at work and they all have blood on their hands.

[stansd]

CA Renter: Now worth responding.

Did all those who are rich earn it? Not necessarily. Some were crooks, some got lucky, and some earned it.

That said, who the hell do all those WORKERS work for and why do they have jobs? Didn’t someone have to put capital at risk to start the business? Didn’t someone have to develop a business plan, hire the first worker, advertise, market, finance, make, distribute, etc?

I have a close friend that just sold his business for $25 million. I was there with him when he had 40k on his credit cards, and was sweating if he’d get his frist customer. I was there when he hired his people, built his software platform, closed his first deal, etc. I’ve seen first hand how his product makes the lives of his customers better, and ultimately benefits society by better allocation of resources (it’s a market forecasting tool). He’s rich now by most standards at the ripe old age of 32, but he earned every cent by bringing something of value into existence that never would have existed without his ideas, hard work, and creativity. He incidently employs 25 retired veterans, most of which make six figures working part time from home (they are highly skilled).

No one is entitled to one red cent by virtue of the fact that they work hard. People are paid based on what they produce be that widgets, advice, or information.

Go back to community college and take economics 101…you’d likely learn a few things.

I also don’t buy any so called well being index as an accurate predictor of well-being. That said, how about.

Current Communist Countries: China, Cuba, Laos, North Korea, and Vietnam.

Notice any similarities? How about repression of human rights, and relatively low standards of living?

How about this list? http://www.heritage.org/Index/countries.cfm

I’ll summarize: The top 10 countries on the index of economic freedom are:

Hong Kong
Singapore
Ireland
Australia
United States
New Zealand
Canada
Chile
Switzerland
United Kingdom

The bottom 10 are:
Burma
Libya
Zimbabwe
Cuba
North Korea
Montenegro
Serbia
Sudan
Iraq
Democratic Republic of the Congo

Where would you rather live?

Stan

[stansd]

CA Renter: Now worth responding.

Did all those who are rich earn it? Not necessarily. Some were crooks, some got lucky, and some earned it.

That said, who the hell do all those WORKERS work for and why do they have jobs? Didn’t someone have to put capital at risk to start the business? Didn’t someone have to develop a business plan, hire the first worker, advertise, market, finance, make, distribute, etc?

I have a close friend that just sold his business for $25 million. I was there with him when he had 40k on his credit cards, and was sweating if he’d get his frist customer. I was there when he hired his people, built his software platform, closed his first deal, etc. I’ve seen first hand how his product makes the lives of his customers better, and ultimately benefits society by better allocation of resources (it’s a market forecasting tool). He’s rich now by most standards at the ripe old age of 32, but he earned every cent by bringing something of value into existence that never would have existed without his ideas, hard work, and creativity. He incidently employs 25 retired veterans, most of which make six figures working part time from home (they are highly skilled).

No one is entitled to one red cent by virtue of the fact that they work hard. People are paid based on what they produce be that widgets, advice, or information.

Go back to community college and take economics 101…you’d likely learn a few things.

I also don’t buy any so called well being index as an accurate predictor of well-being. That said, how about.

Current Communist Countries: China, Cuba, Laos, North Korea, and Vietnam.

Notice any similarities? How about repression of human rights, and relatively low standards of living?

How about this list? http://www.heritage.org/Index/countries.cfm

I’ll summarize: The top 10 countries on the index of economic freedom are:

Hong Kong
Singapore
Ireland
Australia
United States
New Zealand
Canada
Chile
Switzerland
United Kingdom

The bottom 10 are:
Burma
Libya
Zimbabwe
Cuba
North Korea
Montenegro
Serbia
Sudan
Iraq
Democratic Republic of the Congo

Where would you rather live?

Stan

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