The Forgotten Man

[CA renter]

Equality is where people receive the value of what they produce, not where everyone is equal. Like it or not, some folks are more productive than others.
——————–

We clearly define “productive” differently.

I believe it’s the WORKERS who are productive, not the ones who sit behind the desks or on golf courses “making deals” that usually benefit themselves — often at the expense of others.

[CA renter]

Equality is where people receive the value of what they produce, not where everyone is equal. Like it or not, some folks are more productive than others.
——————–

We clearly define “productive” differently.

I believe it’s the WORKERS who are productive, not the ones who sit behind the desks or on golf courses “making deals” that usually benefit themselves — often at the expense of others.

[CA renter]

Equality is where people receive the value of what they produce, not where everyone is equal. Like it or not, some folks are more productive than others.
——————–

We clearly define “productive” differently.

I believe it’s the WORKERS who are productive, not the ones who sit behind the desks or on golf courses “making deals” that usually benefit themselves — often at the expense of others.

[gary_broker]

Kewp, you are leaving out a huge part of the equation. The business owners are the ones that manned up, took the risk, and put up the capital to fund the business. Regardless of the prevailing perception around here most business owners (including myself) work relentlessly, WAY harder then any employee you could hope to hire (14 hours a day is typical) and we often have employee’s who make more money then ourselves!
Have you ever owned a business? It takes huge balls to risk your life savings on a business. If the business fails the employees move on to another job whereas the owner can be left penniless. That brings me to the intent of this post.. it is about risk/reward. In my view the people that put it all on the line and bust their asses to keep people employed deserve the success they achieve.

[gary_broker]

Kewp, you are leaving out a huge part of the equation. The business owners are the ones that manned up, took the risk, and put up the capital to fund the business. Regardless of the prevailing perception around here most business owners (including myself) work relentlessly, WAY harder then any employee you could hope to hire (14 hours a day is typical) and we often have employee’s who make more money then ourselves!
Have you ever owned a business? It takes huge balls to risk your life savings on a business. If the business fails the employees move on to another job whereas the owner can be left penniless. That brings me to the intent of this post.. it is about risk/reward. In my view the people that put it all on the line and bust their asses to keep people employed deserve the success they achieve.

[gary_broker]

Kewp, you are leaving out a huge part of the equation. The business owners are the ones that manned up, took the risk, and put up the capital to fund the business. Regardless of the prevailing perception around here most business owners (including myself) work relentlessly, WAY harder then any employee you could hope to hire (14 hours a day is typical) and we often have employee’s who make more money then ourselves!
Have you ever owned a business? It takes huge balls to risk your life savings on a business. If the business fails the employees move on to another job whereas the owner can be left penniless. That brings me to the intent of this post.. it is about risk/reward. In my view the people that put it all on the line and bust their asses to keep people employed deserve the success they achieve.

[gary_broker]

Kewp, you are leaving out a huge part of the equation. The business owners are the ones that manned up, took the risk, and put up the capital to fund the business. Regardless of the prevailing perception around here most business owners (including myself) work relentlessly, WAY harder then any employee you could hope to hire (14 hours a day is typical) and we often have employee’s who make more money then ourselves!
Have you ever owned a business? It takes huge balls to risk your life savings on a business. If the business fails the employees move on to another job whereas the owner can be left penniless. That brings me to the intent of this post.. it is about risk/reward. In my view the people that put it all on the line and bust their asses to keep people employed deserve the success they achieve.

[gary_broker]

Kewp, you are leaving out a huge part of the equation. The business owners are the ones that manned up, took the risk, and put up the capital to fund the business. Regardless of the prevailing perception around here most business owners (including myself) work relentlessly, WAY harder then any employee you could hope to hire (14 hours a day is typical) and we often have employee’s who make more money then ourselves!
Have you ever owned a business? It takes huge balls to risk your life savings on a business. If the business fails the employees move on to another job whereas the owner can be left penniless. That brings me to the intent of this post.. it is about risk/reward. In my view the people that put it all on the line and bust their asses to keep people employed deserve the success they achieve.

[CA renter]

In my view the people that put it all on the line and bust their asses to keep people employed deserve the success they achieve.
———————

Gary,

Agree!!! Problem is, most of the **truly rich** people do not take these risks.

Hedge fund managers, CEOs, etc…even entertainers and athletes, do NOT take the same risks as someone who **uses their own capital** and **risks losing all his/her personal assets** if something fails.

How many times have we seen politicians, executives, fund managers and other financial “wizards” fail miserably only to be given another job within weeks. This after receiving millions or billions from their former ventures (irrespective of their success/failure) and they somehow manage to escape any personal liability.

If you want corporate protection against personal liability, you are NOT taking risks commensurate with the rewards.

If you are a sole proprietor and take the risks **personally** I have no problem with you charging/making whatever you want. Oddly enough, the few people I knew who ran their own companies like this often made less than their employess (like you). They understood that the company came first, and sometimes they would have to suffer in order to benefit at a later time.

Corporations shield greedy f**ks from any liability. Even criminal charges are rare because these players pay politicians for protection.

The game is rigged, and that is what most of us “socialists” are opposed to.

[CA renter]

In my view the people that put it all on the line and bust their asses to keep people employed deserve the success they achieve.
———————

Gary,

Agree!!! Problem is, most of the **truly rich** people do not take these risks.

Hedge fund managers, CEOs, etc…even entertainers and athletes, do NOT take the same risks as someone who **uses their own capital** and **risks losing all his/her personal assets** if something fails.

How many times have we seen politicians, executives, fund managers and other financial “wizards” fail miserably only to be given another job within weeks. This after receiving millions or billions from their former ventures (irrespective of their success/failure) and they somehow manage to escape any personal liability.

If you want corporate protection against personal liability, you are NOT taking risks commensurate with the rewards.

If you are a sole proprietor and take the risks **personally** I have no problem with you charging/making whatever you want. Oddly enough, the few people I knew who ran their own companies like this often made less than their employess (like you). They understood that the company came first, and sometimes they would have to suffer in order to benefit at a later time.

Corporations shield greedy f**ks from any liability. Even criminal charges are rare because these players pay politicians for protection.

The game is rigged, and that is what most of us “socialists” are opposed to.

[CA renter]

In my view the people that put it all on the line and bust their asses to keep people employed deserve the success they achieve.
———————

Gary,

Agree!!! Problem is, most of the **truly rich** people do not take these risks.

Hedge fund managers, CEOs, etc…even entertainers and athletes, do NOT take the same risks as someone who **uses their own capital** and **risks losing all his/her personal assets** if something fails.

How many times have we seen politicians, executives, fund managers and other financial “wizards” fail miserably only to be given another job within weeks. This after receiving millions or billions from their former ventures (irrespective of their success/failure) and they somehow manage to escape any personal liability.

If you want corporate protection against personal liability, you are NOT taking risks commensurate with the rewards.

If you are a sole proprietor and take the risks **personally** I have no problem with you charging/making whatever you want. Oddly enough, the few people I knew who ran their own companies like this often made less than their employess (like you). They understood that the company came first, and sometimes they would have to suffer in order to benefit at a later time.

Corporations shield greedy f**ks from any liability. Even criminal charges are rare because these players pay politicians for protection.

The game is rigged, and that is what most of us “socialists” are opposed to.

[CA renter]

In my view the people that put it all on the line and bust their asses to keep people employed deserve the success they achieve.
———————

Gary,

Agree!!! Problem is, most of the **truly rich** people do not take these risks.

Hedge fund managers, CEOs, etc…even entertainers and athletes, do NOT take the same risks as someone who **uses their own capital** and **risks losing all his/her personal assets** if something fails.

How many times have we seen politicians, executives, fund managers and other financial “wizards” fail miserably only to be given another job within weeks. This after receiving millions or billions from their former ventures (irrespective of their success/failure) and they somehow manage to escape any personal liability.

If you want corporate protection against personal liability, you are NOT taking risks commensurate with the rewards.

If you are a sole proprietor and take the risks **personally** I have no problem with you charging/making whatever you want. Oddly enough, the few people I knew who ran their own companies like this often made less than their employess (like you). They understood that the company came first, and sometimes they would have to suffer in order to benefit at a later time.

Corporations shield greedy f**ks from any liability. Even criminal charges are rare because these players pay politicians for protection.

The game is rigged, and that is what most of us “socialists” are opposed to.

[CA renter]

In my view the people that put it all on the line and bust their asses to keep people employed deserve the success they achieve.
———————

Gary,

Agree!!! Problem is, most of the **truly rich** people do not take these risks.

Hedge fund managers, CEOs, etc…even entertainers and athletes, do NOT take the same risks as someone who **uses their own capital** and **risks losing all his/her personal assets** if something fails.

How many times have we seen politicians, executives, fund managers and other financial “wizards” fail miserably only to be given another job within weeks. This after receiving millions or billions from their former ventures (irrespective of their success/failure) and they somehow manage to escape any personal liability.

If you want corporate protection against personal liability, you are NOT taking risks commensurate with the rewards.

If you are a sole proprietor and take the risks **personally** I have no problem with you charging/making whatever you want. Oddly enough, the few people I knew who ran their own companies like this often made less than their employess (like you). They understood that the company came first, and sometimes they would have to suffer in order to benefit at a later time.

Corporations shield greedy f**ks from any liability. Even criminal charges are rare because these players pay politicians for protection.

The game is rigged, and that is what most of us “socialists” are opposed to.

[Shadowfax]

Hard work is what most companies are built on. If the sole proprietor is successful, he/she will have to hire help eventually. If they are wildly succesful, the risk taker will be very wealthy. What I don’t understand is why, after that “stage” is reached, the pendulum swings the other way. Did the Waltons treat their first employees well, paying them more than they were making. Now, they can’t give up a fraction of their fortunes to give their employees benefits, as one example?

I agree that there is a return deserved for risk taking, but how much is enough? And if you strip away the supports of the low level, minimum wage types, how does the upper echelon continue to support their profits?

Not to sound like a presidential candidate, but I come from humble beginnings. I am the only person in my generation in my family with an advanced degree. My mother was the only one in her generation of my family with an undergrad degree. I went to public schools, did well, but faced a rude awakening at the elite college I attended when competing with other college students who went to prep schools, had travelled abroad, had parents who were doctors, lawyers, etc. My family existed and subsisted at times on welfare and food stamps–not because we sat around on the couch and did nothing, but because my mother’s jobs did not pay well in her early years and with a child to feed. She eventually chose a job helping others as a state-employed social worker so she still doesn’t make a fortune, but her living is adequate and she will hopefully have a decent retirement.

I can’t abide people saying that people who don’t make much aren’t working hard or don’t have ambition, etc. My mother worked two jobs most of her life, then I started working informally at 9 (no, not a paper route, that would be parental neglect to allow a child to do that in a ghetto neighborhood–not much readership and woe to you if you interrupt a drug transaction in the hallway).

When those who are doing extraordinarily well were born into privilege, or are being paid for ridiculous things like dribbling a basketball or driving cars really fast. Where is the societal contribution of these activities? They make more than doctors! Or my personal favorite, Stan’s CEO could run his company into the ground, and he could still receive a multimillion dollar severance! Wow, now there’s an incentive! How about we tax the shit out of that sort of income!

I think the greedy buttheads that complain because their taxes will go up by a few thousand dollars (they’ll barely notice) ought to suck it up. They, by and large, reaped the benefits of our economy through luck and privilege (and, in a fair number of cases, exploiting or breaking the rules). I guess they’ll have to forego that new Mercedes this year, crowding the garage with all the others. If you benefit from the AMerican dream, you ought to help finance that dream for others.

I can’t see how anyone can say they are working harder than another. Your gardener works hard to save the SoCal common white man from having to trim his own lawn. You’ll be whining when he tells you he is quitting his gardener job to go back to college…but probably he is doing that backbreaking work to put his kids through college, because he’s bought into the American dream, no matter whether he’s an American or not.

[Shadowfax]

Hard work is what most companies are built on. If the sole proprietor is successful, he/she will have to hire help eventually. If they are wildly succesful, the risk taker will be very wealthy. What I don’t understand is why, after that “stage” is reached, the pendulum swings the other way. Did the Waltons treat their first employees well, paying them more than they were making. Now, they can’t give up a fraction of their fortunes to give their employees benefits, as one example?

I agree that there is a return deserved for risk taking, but how much is enough? And if you strip away the supports of the low level, minimum wage types, how does the upper echelon continue to support their profits?

Not to sound like a presidential candidate, but I come from humble beginnings. I am the only person in my generation in my family with an advanced degree. My mother was the only one in her generation of my family with an undergrad degree. I went to public schools, did well, but faced a rude awakening at the elite college I attended when competing with other college students who went to prep schools, had travelled abroad, had parents who were doctors, lawyers, etc. My family existed and subsisted at times on welfare and food stamps–not because we sat around on the couch and did nothing, but because my mother’s jobs did not pay well in her early years and with a child to feed. She eventually chose a job helping others as a state-employed social worker so she still doesn’t make a fortune, but her living is adequate and she will hopefully have a decent retirement.

I can’t abide people saying that people who don’t make much aren’t working hard or don’t have ambition, etc. My mother worked two jobs most of her life, then I started working informally at 9 (no, not a paper route, that would be parental neglect to allow a child to do that in a ghetto neighborhood–not much readership and woe to you if you interrupt a drug transaction in the hallway).

When those who are doing extraordinarily well were born into privilege, or are being paid for ridiculous things like dribbling a basketball or driving cars really fast. Where is the societal contribution of these activities? They make more than doctors! Or my personal favorite, Stan’s CEO could run his company into the ground, and he could still receive a multimillion dollar severance! Wow, now there’s an incentive! How about we tax the shit out of that sort of income!

I think the greedy buttheads that complain because their taxes will go up by a few thousand dollars (they’ll barely notice) ought to suck it up. They, by and large, reaped the benefits of our economy through luck and privilege (and, in a fair number of cases, exploiting or breaking the rules). I guess they’ll have to forego that new Mercedes this year, crowding the garage with all the others. If you benefit from the AMerican dream, you ought to help finance that dream for others.

I can’t see how anyone can say they are working harder than another. Your gardener works hard to save the SoCal common white man from having to trim his own lawn. You’ll be whining when he tells you he is quitting his gardener job to go back to college…but probably he is doing that backbreaking work to put his kids through college, because he’s bought into the American dream, no matter whether he’s an American or not.

[Author]

Posts