Home › Forums › Financial Markets/Economics › The Edge of the Abyss
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November 9, 2012 at 3:17 PM #20263November 9, 2012 at 3:38 PM #754272SD RealtorParticipant
I think this bears repeating….
There’s no one out there on the planet — whether it’s “the rich” or the Chinese — who can afford to carry on bankrolling that rate of return. According to one CBO analysis, U.S.-government spending is sustainable as long as the rest of the world is prepared to sink 19 percent of its GDP into U.S. Treasury debt. We already know the answer to that: In order to avoid the public humiliation of a failed bond auction, the U.S. Treasury sells 70 percent of the debt it issues to the Federal Reserve — which is to say the left hand of the U.S. government is borrowing money from the right hand of the U.S. government. It’s government as a Nigerian e-mail scam, with Ben Bernanke playing the role of the dictator’s widow with $4 trillion under her bed that she’s willing to wire to Timmy Geithner as soon as he sends her his bank-account details.
So while many people are happy because they turn a switch and lights turn on, and they can go down the street to get groceries and/gas there are underlying problems that can make all those little nice things alot harder to come by if they do not get resolved.
November 9, 2012 at 4:06 PM #754278svelteParticipantWell if we’re screwed, the whole world is screwed. Including Germany, Canada, the UK, and especially Japan!
[img_assist|nid=16849|title=debt to GDP by country|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=544|height=431]
November 9, 2012 at 4:10 PM #754279The-ShovelerParticipant“U.S. Treasury sells 70 percent of the debt it issues to the Federal Reserve ”
Personally I wish they would sell 100% to the fed,
That can easily be lost on some paper somewhere someday.
You think the Chinese are not doing the same thing ?
What happens in “insert your country” stays in “insert your country”.
Personally I think we can play the game a lot longer than anyone thinks.
They need us a lot “LOT” more than we need them.
November 9, 2012 at 4:23 PM #754282CA renterParticipantIs Mr. Steyn trying to imply that cutting taxes while dramatically increasing spending (especially on defense) is better for our economy? Some people seem to forget what caused all of our problems: increasing debt (public and private) IS the problem, but most of that happened under the watch of Republicans and their desire to deregulate the financial industry and create financial “innovations.” (And yes, many Dems were complicit as well, including Clinton.)
Remind us again: was it Dems or Repubs who started spending what we don’t have?
November 9, 2012 at 9:40 PM #754303SD RealtorParticipantCAR I would suggest you follow this link.
In fact there is a very nice breakdown for each and every year of where the money is spent. Lots of money spent on defense. Oh lots of money spent on pensions CAR… imagine that! Lots of money spent on healthcare! Lets just talk about how much money Wall St has made the past 4 years CAR. Seems like the fat cats have done pretty damn well under the Obama administration.
http://www.usfederalbudget.us/federal_budget_fy12
Contrary to your rose colored belief, every president in power has contributed to our federal debt so please come off your high horse. Don’t try to absolve either party with your pathetic remind us who started it remark.
The fact of the matter is that in the past 4 years we have exceeded the accumulated levels for all of the prior administrations. By the end of this administration estimates are for a 20 trillion accumulated debt level.
November 9, 2012 at 11:08 PM #754304paramountParticipantThe so-called fiscal cliff, isn’t that the part of the answer and not the problem?
November 9, 2012 at 11:18 PM #754306CA renterParticipant[quote=paramount]The so-called fiscal cliff, isn’t that the part of the answer and not the problem?[/quote]
Yes, absolutely.
November 9, 2012 at 11:21 PM #754305CA renterParticipant[quote=SD Realtor]CAR I would suggest you follow this link.
In fact there is a very nice breakdown for each and every year of where the money is spent. Lots of money spent on defense. Oh lots of money spent on pensions CAR… imagine that! Lots of money spent on healthcare! Lets just talk about how much money Wall St has made the past 4 years CAR. Seems like the fat cats have done pretty damn well under the Obama administration.
http://www.usfederalbudget.us/federal_budget_fy12
Contrary to your rose colored belief, every president in power has contributed to our federal debt so please come off your high horse. Don’t try to absolve either party with your pathetic remind us who started it remark.
The fact of the matter is that in the past 4 years we have exceeded the accumulated levels for all of the prior administrations. By the end of this administration estimates are for a 20 trillion accumulated debt level.[/quote]
Of course the debt over the past 4 years has grown at such a rapid clip. We’ve been fighting the deflationary collapse of our entire economic system (though I don’t agree entirely with doing that, as you probably know). I don’t see that as “Obama’s fault,” as much as it’s the fault of those who put him (and any other high-level politician) in office.
Not sure why the differences are so large, but this site shows very different numbers. Here, pensions comprise ~7% of the federal budget, and that includes benefits/retirement for veterans.
http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=1258
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And did you miss what I wrote above:
…desire to deregulate the financial industry and create financial “innovations.” (And yes, many Dems were complicit as well, including Clinton.)
Believe me, I’m not a big fan of Obama, was 1000% percent against all of the bailouts and the takeover of the GSE’s, and think he’s basically more of the same after G.W. Bush, but he’s infinitely better than Romney whose policies would greatly accelerate the growing divide between the workers (the 99%) and the capitalists. That is what I’m fighting against.
November 10, 2012 at 12:22 AM #754283The-ShovelerParticipantEnding the game at this point is in no one’s interest.
The only hope is that science and progress can extend finite resources.
I think the above can go on but I am an optimist.
Wheres my Robot I need the lawn done and the house cleaned.
November 10, 2012 at 12:50 AM #754308The-ShovelerParticipantIMO
Going over the cliff will just be a lot of pain with very little solution.From what I understand even If implemented everything we would still run a defect.
November 10, 2012 at 1:03 AM #754309paramountParticipant[quote=The-Shoveler]IMO
Going over the cliff will just be a lot of pain with very little solution.[/quote]
True, but less pain now vs more later.
November 10, 2012 at 7:32 AM #754310spdrunParticipantFrom what I understand even If implemented everything we would still run a defect.
Time to cut .mil spending even more than by a paltry $55 billion, then. Get to it. Oh yeah, and legalize soft drugs, cutting DEA and fed law enforcement budget (including funding to locals) by 50% as well. We’re overpoliced and overimprisoned as it is.
November 10, 2012 at 10:35 AM #754314scaredyclassicParticipantmy kid actually is seeking out cliffs, but trying to climb upwards, not jump off of.
November 10, 2012 at 8:28 PM #754337paramountParticipant[quote=spdrun] Oh yeah, and legalize soft drugs, cutting DEA and fed law enforcement budget (including funding to locals) by 50% as well. We’re over policed and overimprisoned as it is.[/quote]
It’s hard to argue with that point.
But it’s just a characteristic of fascism.
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