The city that outsourced everything

[UCGal]

[quote=JohnAlt91941][quote=UCGal]

I think targeting your anger towards public union employees is missing the point. The public employee worker bees are not the problem. Until 10-15 years ago private employers offered similar benefits to private sector, non-union, employees.[/quote]

I’m not sure where you mean in the last 10-15 years. This sounds like something from another era, like the 1950’s or 1960’s. I’m not saying defined benefit pensions weren’t more common 10-15 years ago, but they couldn’t have been as rich as what we see in government.

Seriously, there were private employees getting 2.5% for every year worked starting at age 55 as recently as 15 years ago? Maybe at the Big 3 auto makers but how about in this part of the country? Every place I’ve worked going back to the 1980’s it’s been IRA or 403B or 401k usually with a modest employer match.[/quote]

In the 80’s I worked for subsidiary of Cubic – they had defined benefit pension AND 401k. In the early 90’s I worked for a small, privately held company in WA state, they had 401k only. I then moved to PA and worked for a publicly traded, fortune 500, company from 93-2000. They had both 401k (with match) and a defined benefit pension. We were aquired in 2000. I am vested in the now frozen pension that was in place till our acquisition.
The company that acquired us – for whom I’m still employed – had eliminated their defined benefit pension for new hires (and as acquirees we were new hires) in favor of a “portable pension”. We also have a 401k. The 401k had a match until 2009, then the eliminated the match. (In my view that was a 3% paycut!) It’s just recently (past few months) been restored. Somewhere in the mid-2000’s they stopped giving the portable pension to new hires – but existing employees were grandfathered in. In 2009 they froze the portable pension. Meaning they were no longer contributing to it other than to make sure it was funded to existing obligations. In 2010 they froze the “portable” part of the portable pension – because they UNDERFUNDED their obligations. They just sent out paperwork, this week, saying that this year it is even more underfunded… So the portability (ability to roll it into an IRA upon separation) is gone until they bring up the funding. They have applied to take 15 years, rather than 7, to properly fund their obligations.

So – until Jan 2000 – I had a defined benefit pension from a publicly traded company (not government.) From 2000-2009 I had a portable pension from a publicly traded company (not government). This is in addition to 401k programs.

I have seen a steady decline in employer provided retirement benefits in the private sector. They used to be standard, now they are not. Even a 401k match is no longer a “given”.

This wasn’t another era. As I mentioned – I had a private employer that gave a defined benefit pension as recently as 11 years ago. They might still be giving it to us if we hadn’t been bought.

Rather than get mad at public employees – I am envious. I used to get a pension but my employer chose to eliminate that benefit. Along with a host of other benefits. I’m not mad at the public worker who did nothing to me – I’m mad at my employer for the steady decline in benefits.

I’ve been a loyal employee… but I’ll tell you – it’s getting old.

[Shadowfax]

UCGal: Beating the dead horse–I’ll bet the C-suite execs are all funded and probably even get other perks that middle line workers have no access to.

It’s all really just a continuation of the middle-class squeeze. I would accept the “economy did it” defense, and that there is a new ecomonic reality, but for the fact that there seems to be no willingness for the people running the ship to share in the misfortune that they were in the best position to avoid!

[Shadowfax]

UCGal: Beating the dead horse–I’ll bet the C-suite execs are all funded and probably even get other perks that middle line workers have no access to.

It’s all really just a continuation of the middle-class squeeze. I would accept the “economy did it” defense, and that there is a new ecomonic reality, but for the fact that there seems to be no willingness for the people running the ship to share in the misfortune that they were in the best position to avoid!

[Shadowfax]

UCGal: Beating the dead horse–I’ll bet the C-suite execs are all funded and probably even get other perks that middle line workers have no access to.

It’s all really just a continuation of the middle-class squeeze. I would accept the “economy did it” defense, and that there is a new ecomonic reality, but for the fact that there seems to be no willingness for the people running the ship to share in the misfortune that they were in the best position to avoid!

[Shadowfax]

UCGal: Beating the dead horse–I’ll bet the C-suite execs are all funded and probably even get other perks that middle line workers have no access to.

It’s all really just a continuation of the middle-class squeeze. I would accept the “economy did it” defense, and that there is a new ecomonic reality, but for the fact that there seems to be no willingness for the people running the ship to share in the misfortune that they were in the best position to avoid!

[Shadowfax]

UCGal: Beating the dead horse–I’ll bet the C-suite execs are all funded and probably even get other perks that middle line workers have no access to.

It’s all really just a continuation of the middle-class squeeze. I would accept the “economy did it” defense, and that there is a new ecomonic reality, but for the fact that there seems to be no willingness for the people running the ship to share in the misfortune that they were in the best position to avoid!

[Reality]

[quote=UCGal]

So – until Jan 2000 – I had a defined benefit pension from a publicly traded company (not government.) From 2000-2009 I had a portable pension from a publicly traded company (not government). This is in addition to 401k programs.

[/quote]

I understand and acknowledged that these kinds of plans were more common 10-15 years ago. What I haven’t seen you confirm is how generous they were.

The city of San Diego, I believe, awards 2.5% for each year and someone can retire at 55. So someone could start there at 25 and retire at 55 at 75% of their highest pay. Was your pension that good or close to it?

[Reality]

[quote=UCGal]

So – until Jan 2000 – I had a defined benefit pension from a publicly traded company (not government.) From 2000-2009 I had a portable pension from a publicly traded company (not government). This is in addition to 401k programs.

[/quote]

I understand and acknowledged that these kinds of plans were more common 10-15 years ago. What I haven’t seen you confirm is how generous they were.

The city of San Diego, I believe, awards 2.5% for each year and someone can retire at 55. So someone could start there at 25 and retire at 55 at 75% of their highest pay. Was your pension that good or close to it?

[Reality]

[quote=UCGal]

So – until Jan 2000 – I had a defined benefit pension from a publicly traded company (not government.) From 2000-2009 I had a portable pension from a publicly traded company (not government). This is in addition to 401k programs.

[/quote]

I understand and acknowledged that these kinds of plans were more common 10-15 years ago. What I haven’t seen you confirm is how generous they were.

The city of San Diego, I believe, awards 2.5% for each year and someone can retire at 55. So someone could start there at 25 and retire at 55 at 75% of their highest pay. Was your pension that good or close to it?

[Reality]

[quote=UCGal]

So – until Jan 2000 – I had a defined benefit pension from a publicly traded company (not government.) From 2000-2009 I had a portable pension from a publicly traded company (not government). This is in addition to 401k programs.

[/quote]

I understand and acknowledged that these kinds of plans were more common 10-15 years ago. What I haven’t seen you confirm is how generous they were.

The city of San Diego, I believe, awards 2.5% for each year and someone can retire at 55. So someone could start there at 25 and retire at 55 at 75% of their highest pay. Was your pension that good or close to it?

[Reality]

[quote=UCGal]

So – until Jan 2000 – I had a defined benefit pension from a publicly traded company (not government.) From 2000-2009 I had a portable pension from a publicly traded company (not government). This is in addition to 401k programs.

[/quote]

I understand and acknowledged that these kinds of plans were more common 10-15 years ago. What I haven’t seen you confirm is how generous they were.

The city of San Diego, I believe, awards 2.5% for each year and someone can retire at 55. So someone could start there at 25 and retire at 55 at 75% of their highest pay. Was your pension that good or close to it?

[UCGal]

[quote=JohnAlt91941][quote=UCGal]

So – until Jan 2000 – I had a defined benefit pension from a publicly traded company (not government.) From 2000-2009 I had a portable pension from a publicly traded company (not government). This is in addition to 401k programs.

[/quote]

I understand and acknowledged that these kinds of plans were more common 10-15 years ago. What I haven’t seen you confirm is how generous they were.

The city of San Diego, I believe, awards 2.5% for each year and someone can retire at 55. So someone could start there at 25 and retire at 55 at 75% of their highest pay. Was your pension that good or close to it?[/quote]

Not quite that good – they used the “rule of 75” – years of service plus age = 75 or greater before you qualified for retiree healthcare. (Basically retirees could buy into the employee plan at close to the employee rate – a sweet deal.)

For the pension – if they hadn’t frozen it I was looking at 70% of the average of my late 5 years base salary starting at age 62. So again – a pretty sweet deal. It was 75% if you waited to 65. That’s the defined benefit one that was frozen when we were acquired.

Because it was frozen I’m looking at a whoppin’ $136/month at age 62. Woo hoo, party time. /snark

The portable pension was a crappier deal from the get go, in comparison. It was 1% of the salary put into a fund for an annuity – or lump sum distribution equal to what they’d pay for the annuity.
Folks who were with the parent company prior to 1999 were grandfathered into the old parent company defined benefit pension. They stopped (froze) that in 2008 or 2009. So for longer term employees who were there before my company was acquired – they had a nice pension up into 3 or so years ago.

[UCGal]

[quote=JohnAlt91941][quote=UCGal]

So – until Jan 2000 – I had a defined benefit pension from a publicly traded company (not government.) From 2000-2009 I had a portable pension from a publicly traded company (not government). This is in addition to 401k programs.

[/quote]

I understand and acknowledged that these kinds of plans were more common 10-15 years ago. What I haven’t seen you confirm is how generous they were.

The city of San Diego, I believe, awards 2.5% for each year and someone can retire at 55. So someone could start there at 25 and retire at 55 at 75% of their highest pay. Was your pension that good or close to it?[/quote]

Not quite that good – they used the “rule of 75” – years of service plus age = 75 or greater before you qualified for retiree healthcare. (Basically retirees could buy into the employee plan at close to the employee rate – a sweet deal.)

For the pension – if they hadn’t frozen it I was looking at 70% of the average of my late 5 years base salary starting at age 62. So again – a pretty sweet deal. It was 75% if you waited to 65. That’s the defined benefit one that was frozen when we were acquired.

Because it was frozen I’m looking at a whoppin’ $136/month at age 62. Woo hoo, party time. /snark

The portable pension was a crappier deal from the get go, in comparison. It was 1% of the salary put into a fund for an annuity – or lump sum distribution equal to what they’d pay for the annuity.
Folks who were with the parent company prior to 1999 were grandfathered into the old parent company defined benefit pension. They stopped (froze) that in 2008 or 2009. So for longer term employees who were there before my company was acquired – they had a nice pension up into 3 or so years ago.

[UCGal]

[quote=JohnAlt91941][quote=UCGal]

So – until Jan 2000 – I had a defined benefit pension from a publicly traded company (not government.) From 2000-2009 I had a portable pension from a publicly traded company (not government). This is in addition to 401k programs.

[/quote]

I understand and acknowledged that these kinds of plans were more common 10-15 years ago. What I haven’t seen you confirm is how generous they were.

The city of San Diego, I believe, awards 2.5% for each year and someone can retire at 55. So someone could start there at 25 and retire at 55 at 75% of their highest pay. Was your pension that good or close to it?[/quote]

Not quite that good – they used the “rule of 75” – years of service plus age = 75 or greater before you qualified for retiree healthcare. (Basically retirees could buy into the employee plan at close to the employee rate – a sweet deal.)

For the pension – if they hadn’t frozen it I was looking at 70% of the average of my late 5 years base salary starting at age 62. So again – a pretty sweet deal. It was 75% if you waited to 65. That’s the defined benefit one that was frozen when we were acquired.

Because it was frozen I’m looking at a whoppin’ $136/month at age 62. Woo hoo, party time. /snark

The portable pension was a crappier deal from the get go, in comparison. It was 1% of the salary put into a fund for an annuity – or lump sum distribution equal to what they’d pay for the annuity.
Folks who were with the parent company prior to 1999 were grandfathered into the old parent company defined benefit pension. They stopped (froze) that in 2008 or 2009. So for longer term employees who were there before my company was acquired – they had a nice pension up into 3 or so years ago.

[UCGal]

[quote=JohnAlt91941][quote=UCGal]

So – until Jan 2000 – I had a defined benefit pension from a publicly traded company (not government.) From 2000-2009 I had a portable pension from a publicly traded company (not government). This is in addition to 401k programs.

[/quote]

I understand and acknowledged that these kinds of plans were more common 10-15 years ago. What I haven’t seen you confirm is how generous they were.

The city of San Diego, I believe, awards 2.5% for each year and someone can retire at 55. So someone could start there at 25 and retire at 55 at 75% of their highest pay. Was your pension that good or close to it?[/quote]

Not quite that good – they used the “rule of 75” – years of service plus age = 75 or greater before you qualified for retiree healthcare. (Basically retirees could buy into the employee plan at close to the employee rate – a sweet deal.)

For the pension – if they hadn’t frozen it I was looking at 70% of the average of my late 5 years base salary starting at age 62. So again – a pretty sweet deal. It was 75% if you waited to 65. That’s the defined benefit one that was frozen when we were acquired.

Because it was frozen I’m looking at a whoppin’ $136/month at age 62. Woo hoo, party time. /snark

The portable pension was a crappier deal from the get go, in comparison. It was 1% of the salary put into a fund for an annuity – or lump sum distribution equal to what they’d pay for the annuity.
Folks who were with the parent company prior to 1999 were grandfathered into the old parent company defined benefit pension. They stopped (froze) that in 2008 or 2009. So for longer term employees who were there before my company was acquired – they had a nice pension up into 3 or so years ago.

[Author]

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