TARP has lost 40% since inception

[gandalf]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]Gandalf: Whoa! Easy there, dude. You’re right, but you’re also not telling the entire story, either.

What about Clinton’s repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act? More importantly, what about the powers behind the throne agitating for that? Namely, Robert Rubin and Alan Greenspan.[/quote]

For the record, I couldn’t stand Clinton. (Neither one of them.)

Clinton repealed GS with republican support over dem minority objections. The GOP *led* the effort to deregulate financial services with support from the Clinton and his enablers. I can’t stand Rubin. I don’t like Geithner, or Summers. I consider Greenspan to be one of the prime culprits.

I’ve been clear, I consider personnel choices of Geithner and Summers to be a stumble by Obama out of the gate. The efforts so far have been too ‘establishment’, propping up the Bezzle instead of flushing the fraud down the toilet. The markets will not return until confidence and trust are restored and there are indictments, transparent books and sensible regulation.

Now, in all fairness to Obama, we are less than 60 days into the new administration, after 8 YEARS of historically-awful BUSH on top of 8 YEARS of the triangulating slickster BILL.

Blaming this entire mess on Obama at this point is contrived, framed, false, fake, manufactured GOP talking point outrage.

Not saying anybody is beyond criticism, but if you’re one of these losers who throws out shit like “Obama makes the stock market fall” — well, you’re just a DOUCHEBAG. Maybe the market SHOULD FALL. How about that? Maybe Citigroup stock is only worth $1 because they operate a FRAUD?! Maybe that’s fair market pricing?! Don’t even get me started about AIG…

Look, we’ve got a lot of issues to work through. It’s a disaster. We ought to be finding common ground at this point, trying to move forward. The finger-pointing and GOP talking points, those are just trademarks of “THE LOSER”.

[DWCAP]

Dave,

So I end up with “how can it be ‘in good faith’ if it is all based on lies?” Just because politics is messy doesnt mean good faith doesnt require honesty. We will never get off this rollercoaster if at somepoint we never believe anything the government is saying.

If it isnt in good faith, then it is just more bull being shoveled by a different suit, and I see no reason not to criticize the current efforts being led by the same people and/or groups that got us here. Often it is in the criticism of my work that I find my best ideas.

[DWCAP]

Dave,

So I end up with “how can it be ‘in good faith’ if it is all based on lies?” Just because politics is messy doesnt mean good faith doesnt require honesty. We will never get off this rollercoaster if at somepoint we never believe anything the government is saying.

If it isnt in good faith, then it is just more bull being shoveled by a different suit, and I see no reason not to criticize the current efforts being led by the same people and/or groups that got us here. Often it is in the criticism of my work that I find my best ideas.

[DWCAP]

Dave,

So I end up with “how can it be ‘in good faith’ if it is all based on lies?” Just because politics is messy doesnt mean good faith doesnt require honesty. We will never get off this rollercoaster if at somepoint we never believe anything the government is saying.

If it isnt in good faith, then it is just more bull being shoveled by a different suit, and I see no reason not to criticize the current efforts being led by the same people and/or groups that got us here. Often it is in the criticism of my work that I find my best ideas.

[DWCAP]

Dave,

So I end up with “how can it be ‘in good faith’ if it is all based on lies?” Just because politics is messy doesnt mean good faith doesnt require honesty. We will never get off this rollercoaster if at somepoint we never believe anything the government is saying.

If it isnt in good faith, then it is just more bull being shoveled by a different suit, and I see no reason not to criticize the current efforts being led by the same people and/or groups that got us here. Often it is in the criticism of my work that I find my best ideas.

[DWCAP]

Dave,

So I end up with “how can it be ‘in good faith’ if it is all based on lies?” Just because politics is messy doesnt mean good faith doesnt require honesty. We will never get off this rollercoaster if at somepoint we never believe anything the government is saying.

If it isnt in good faith, then it is just more bull being shoveled by a different suit, and I see no reason not to criticize the current efforts being led by the same people and/or groups that got us here. Often it is in the criticism of my work that I find my best ideas.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Gandalf: The key here is who is surrounding Obama, not Obama himself. As you yourself pointed out, there is a significant amount of “business as usual” going on right now and exactly because of Rubin, Summers and Geithner. Every single one of these guys has fingerprints all over this mess, and there are plenty of other culprits out there as well.

I’m not pointing at Obama and blaming him. I am, however, pointing at Obama’s CHOICES and asking why? If we are discussing change and getting away from the nonsense of the Bush and Clinton years, then why are we doing EXACTLY the same thing?

All of this sound and fury from both sides of the aisles (exemplified by the extremists in both parties) is doing nothing other than obscuring the true picture, but that is precisely why it is happening. This nonsense is well planned and well executed and conveniently keeps our attention away from the real picture and how truly awful that picture is.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Gandalf: The key here is who is surrounding Obama, not Obama himself. As you yourself pointed out, there is a significant amount of “business as usual” going on right now and exactly because of Rubin, Summers and Geithner. Every single one of these guys has fingerprints all over this mess, and there are plenty of other culprits out there as well.

I’m not pointing at Obama and blaming him. I am, however, pointing at Obama’s CHOICES and asking why? If we are discussing change and getting away from the nonsense of the Bush and Clinton years, then why are we doing EXACTLY the same thing?

All of this sound and fury from both sides of the aisles (exemplified by the extremists in both parties) is doing nothing other than obscuring the true picture, but that is precisely why it is happening. This nonsense is well planned and well executed and conveniently keeps our attention away from the real picture and how truly awful that picture is.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Gandalf: The key here is who is surrounding Obama, not Obama himself. As you yourself pointed out, there is a significant amount of “business as usual” going on right now and exactly because of Rubin, Summers and Geithner. Every single one of these guys has fingerprints all over this mess, and there are plenty of other culprits out there as well.

I’m not pointing at Obama and blaming him. I am, however, pointing at Obama’s CHOICES and asking why? If we are discussing change and getting away from the nonsense of the Bush and Clinton years, then why are we doing EXACTLY the same thing?

All of this sound and fury from both sides of the aisles (exemplified by the extremists in both parties) is doing nothing other than obscuring the true picture, but that is precisely why it is happening. This nonsense is well planned and well executed and conveniently keeps our attention away from the real picture and how truly awful that picture is.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Gandalf: The key here is who is surrounding Obama, not Obama himself. As you yourself pointed out, there is a significant amount of “business as usual” going on right now and exactly because of Rubin, Summers and Geithner. Every single one of these guys has fingerprints all over this mess, and there are plenty of other culprits out there as well.

I’m not pointing at Obama and blaming him. I am, however, pointing at Obama’s CHOICES and asking why? If we are discussing change and getting away from the nonsense of the Bush and Clinton years, then why are we doing EXACTLY the same thing?

All of this sound and fury from both sides of the aisles (exemplified by the extremists in both parties) is doing nothing other than obscuring the true picture, but that is precisely why it is happening. This nonsense is well planned and well executed and conveniently keeps our attention away from the real picture and how truly awful that picture is.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Gandalf: The key here is who is surrounding Obama, not Obama himself. As you yourself pointed out, there is a significant amount of “business as usual” going on right now and exactly because of Rubin, Summers and Geithner. Every single one of these guys has fingerprints all over this mess, and there are plenty of other culprits out there as well.

I’m not pointing at Obama and blaming him. I am, however, pointing at Obama’s CHOICES and asking why? If we are discussing change and getting away from the nonsense of the Bush and Clinton years, then why are we doing EXACTLY the same thing?

All of this sound and fury from both sides of the aisles (exemplified by the extremists in both parties) is doing nothing other than obscuring the true picture, but that is precisely why it is happening. This nonsense is well planned and well executed and conveniently keeps our attention away from the real picture and how truly awful that picture is.

[DWCAP]

Dave, I belive your point is more, “well what would you do?”. It is easy to throw stones at those who try to solve messy problems, it is much harder to solve messy problems.

It is like the whole problem with the prison system. We know it isnt fair to everyone, we know it doesnt really work (what is it 3/4 go back within 5 years?? soomething like that) and plenty of people have been sent to prison for crimes they didnt commit. And yet we keep sending people to prision in record numbers for longer periods of time, cause we dont know what else to do.
‘What do you do with a violent person who has no wish nor ability to self regulate?’
In college I knew alot of people who RAILED against the system, and yet couldnt come up with anything better when questoned.

I think your challenge is something along these lines. What would you do that is so much better?

Am I right?

[DWCAP]

Dave, I belive your point is more, “well what would you do?”. It is easy to throw stones at those who try to solve messy problems, it is much harder to solve messy problems.

It is like the whole problem with the prison system. We know it isnt fair to everyone, we know it doesnt really work (what is it 3/4 go back within 5 years?? soomething like that) and plenty of people have been sent to prison for crimes they didnt commit. And yet we keep sending people to prision in record numbers for longer periods of time, cause we dont know what else to do.
‘What do you do with a violent person who has no wish nor ability to self regulate?’
In college I knew alot of people who RAILED against the system, and yet couldnt come up with anything better when questoned.

I think your challenge is something along these lines. What would you do that is so much better?

Am I right?

[DWCAP]

Dave, I belive your point is more, “well what would you do?”. It is easy to throw stones at those who try to solve messy problems, it is much harder to solve messy problems.

It is like the whole problem with the prison system. We know it isnt fair to everyone, we know it doesnt really work (what is it 3/4 go back within 5 years?? soomething like that) and plenty of people have been sent to prison for crimes they didnt commit. And yet we keep sending people to prision in record numbers for longer periods of time, cause we dont know what else to do.
‘What do you do with a violent person who has no wish nor ability to self regulate?’
In college I knew alot of people who RAILED against the system, and yet couldnt come up with anything better when questoned.

I think your challenge is something along these lines. What would you do that is so much better?

Am I right?

[DWCAP]

Dave, I belive your point is more, “well what would you do?”. It is easy to throw stones at those who try to solve messy problems, it is much harder to solve messy problems.

It is like the whole problem with the prison system. We know it isnt fair to everyone, we know it doesnt really work (what is it 3/4 go back within 5 years?? soomething like that) and plenty of people have been sent to prison for crimes they didnt commit. And yet we keep sending people to prision in record numbers for longer periods of time, cause we dont know what else to do.
‘What do you do with a violent person who has no wish nor ability to self regulate?’
In college I knew alot of people who RAILED against the system, and yet couldnt come up with anything better when questoned.

I think your challenge is something along these lines. What would you do that is so much better?

Am I right?

[Author]

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