Talked to Thornberg

[NotCranky]

A question JG because I think you might be behaving in a sly manner again.Do you believe we are primates?Animals? And I am nto jsut asking about me and CY!

[NotCranky]

A question JG because I think you might be behaving in a sly manner again.Do you believe we are primates?Animals? And I am nto jsut asking about me and CY!

[Anonymous]

Evolution makes sense to me, R-.

[Anonymous]

Evolution makes sense to me, R-.

[NotCranky]

You devil :). How about real seperation of church and state?

[NotCranky]

You devil :). How about real seperation of church and state?

[Anonymous]

There is no such thing in the Constitution and there is no basis for such in The Federalist Papers.

From my fallible memory: the phrase was poached, out of context, from a letter by Thos. Jefferson to a Baptist group in which he proposed support for their efforts. Later, a 20th century Supreme Court judge stuck the phrase into an opinion, and the NY Times, ACLU et al. have attempted to institutionalize it.

[Anonymous]

There is no such thing in the Constitution and there is no basis for such in The Federalist Papers.

From my fallible memory: the phrase was poached, out of context, from a letter by Thos. Jefferson to a Baptist group in which he proposed support for their efforts. Later, a 20th century Supreme Court judge stuck the phrase into an opinion, and the NY Times, ACLU et al. have attempted to institutionalize it.

[NotCranky]

Thanks for the answer. Well, in My opinion it is about time How much further remains to be seen. I admire your knowlege of history.Perhaps we need the checks and balances of religious views? I doubt it. It is just a status quo lazy lie at best. Do you remember Kerry saying that he could never see it just to legislate his faith? I really appreciated him for saying that(whatever his motivations might have been,probably votes,duh).Yeah come to think about it he was probably just trying ot minimze the chaffing effect his being religious had on his “LIB” constituents.Whore. I think he is Catholic too.

I might have adopted religion like you have, even without buying into it hook line and sinker. I have an extreme intolerance for ritual, herd behavior and hypocrisy. The thing about “GOD” being on our side during war and loving “freedom” loving nations and all that is sickening too. I would protest like hell if my GOD were being hijacked for such puposes and also being pimped and pandered for votes. Those people should go to hell. Maybe we could make a case for “odd bed fellows” again. Shall we get back to impeaching Bush?

Our motto: ” Sinners and saints for seperation of church and state” Freedom of religion stays in tact where religion doesn’t interfere with basic human needs.

[NotCranky]

Thanks for the answer. Well, in My opinion it is about time How much further remains to be seen. I admire your knowlege of history.Perhaps we need the checks and balances of religious views? I doubt it. It is just a status quo lazy lie at best. Do you remember Kerry saying that he could never see it just to legislate his faith? I really appreciated him for saying that(whatever his motivations might have been,probably votes,duh).Yeah come to think about it he was probably just trying ot minimze the chaffing effect his being religious had on his “LIB” constituents.Whore. I think he is Catholic too.

I might have adopted religion like you have, even without buying into it hook line and sinker. I have an extreme intolerance for ritual, herd behavior and hypocrisy. The thing about “GOD” being on our side during war and loving “freedom” loving nations and all that is sickening too. I would protest like hell if my GOD were being hijacked for such puposes and also being pimped and pandered for votes. Those people should go to hell. Maybe we could make a case for “odd bed fellows” again. Shall we get back to impeaching Bush?

Our motto: ” Sinners and saints for seperation of church and state” Freedom of religion stays in tact where religion doesn’t interfere with basic human needs.

[4runner]

Rustico,

I think that you discard religion at your own peril.

Practically speaking, there has never been a successful human society founded on atheism/agnosticism. For better or worse, religion is an inseparable part of every successful culture. I’m a big pragmatist– if society without religion has never worked before, you better give me a very good reason for getting rid of it now… Pointing to an occasional problem with individual policies/actors is not a sufficient reason for getting rid of the whole thing.

On a personal level, I don’t think that atheists have thought their position through to its logical conclusion. Do the John Lennon “imagine there’s no religion/god…” thought experiment. If so, we all are just piles of meat. In the absence of anything sacred/divine about humans, killing a human is no different from killing a cow. It may be impractical/uneconomical to needlessly kill a cow or a human, but “economic inefficiency” seems like a very thin basis for stopping me from slaughtering my next door neighbor so that I can take his BMW out on a joy ride. In particular, society tolerates all sorts of uneconomic behavior. As I said before, that line is pretty arbitrary. Yet somehow I feel that killing a human is different from killing a cow. The only logical justification that I can come up with is that humans are divine.

[4runner]

Rustico,

I think that you discard religion at your own peril.

Practically speaking, there has never been a successful human society founded on atheism/agnosticism. For better or worse, religion is an inseparable part of every successful culture. I’m a big pragmatist– if society without religion has never worked before, you better give me a very good reason for getting rid of it now… Pointing to an occasional problem with individual policies/actors is not a sufficient reason for getting rid of the whole thing.

On a personal level, I don’t think that atheists have thought their position through to its logical conclusion. Do the John Lennon “imagine there’s no religion/god…” thought experiment. If so, we all are just piles of meat. In the absence of anything sacred/divine about humans, killing a human is no different from killing a cow. It may be impractical/uneconomical to needlessly kill a cow or a human, but “economic inefficiency” seems like a very thin basis for stopping me from slaughtering my next door neighbor so that I can take his BMW out on a joy ride. In particular, society tolerates all sorts of uneconomic behavior. As I said before, that line is pretty arbitrary. Yet somehow I feel that killing a human is different from killing a cow. The only logical justification that I can come up with is that humans are divine.

[NotCranky]

I am sure we can agree to disagree 4runner. I certainly like your style. Just because something has not happened does not mean that it can not.It means that we haven’t seen the will for it in a long time. Most other animals do not kill their own kind ,although they do compete relentlessly, just as we human animals do. I have no desire to stop religion and it can be a fine contribution to our society without leaving it vulnerable to the likes of Bush to abuse as it has been abused and has been used to abuse humans from its inception. Thanks for considering my needs but the only peril for me regarding religion is that I am still at risk of being a heretic worthy of slaughter,and so are a lot more potentially valuable persons than myself, perhaps even in the eyes of my goverment again some day. Also, I am prejudiced against if I share my beliefs more than you are for sharing yours. Separation of church and state could ameleriorate that without harming you.

If you ever get to Spain I recommend going to the wax museum in Madrid. It is a bit embarrassing to say that in a city of cultural and historical gems that I went to the wax museum, however, the inquisition exhibit as gruesome as it was ,made a very strong contrary impression as to how religion makes people behave gently towards other humans.So does Guantanamo and the Bushes version of almost all government agencies. So does the invoking of GOD for each and every war by (both sides). In my opinion 4runner it is not just a little twisted its sick or evil.
Best wishes

[NotCranky]

I am sure we can agree to disagree 4runner. I certainly like your style. Just because something has not happened does not mean that it can not.It means that we haven’t seen the will for it in a long time. Most other animals do not kill their own kind ,although they do compete relentlessly, just as we human animals do. I have no desire to stop religion and it can be a fine contribution to our society without leaving it vulnerable to the likes of Bush to abuse as it has been abused and has been used to abuse humans from its inception. Thanks for considering my needs but the only peril for me regarding religion is that I am still at risk of being a heretic worthy of slaughter,and so are a lot more potentially valuable persons than myself, perhaps even in the eyes of my goverment again some day. Also, I am prejudiced against if I share my beliefs more than you are for sharing yours. Separation of church and state could ameleriorate that without harming you.

If you ever get to Spain I recommend going to the wax museum in Madrid. It is a bit embarrassing to say that in a city of cultural and historical gems that I went to the wax museum, however, the inquisition exhibit as gruesome as it was ,made a very strong contrary impression as to how religion makes people behave gently towards other humans.So does Guantanamo and the Bushes version of almost all government agencies. So does the invoking of GOD for each and every war by (both sides). In my opinion 4runner it is not just a little twisted its sick or evil.
Best wishes

[PerryChase]

Good discussion, you’all.

rustico, do you write well. I too like your writing style.

lostkitty, although I was raise Catholic, I’m like you, not religious at all. To me God is nature/the universe. And one certainly doesn’t need a religious God to be blessed.

4runner, great points about religion and economics.

cyphire, I too am pissed at Bush. He’s taking this country down hill. When I have kids (most likely adopt from Africa), I’ll have to take them overseas for the summer so they aren’t brainwashed by their classmates.

[Author]

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