State of the Union

[no_such_reality]

Injuries aren’t really tracked unless they involve a vehicle and overall you’re wrong. In 2014 in NyC, twice as many pedestrians died as motor vehicle drivers. Not including those that just get injured. Bicyclists about half as many.

[quote=spdrun]I haven’t heard of an epidemic of people dying in NYC by slipping and falling. Walking to the train is perfectly doable — most people where I grew up did it, and I didn’t hear of anyone dying. But there are fewer fats around NYC than in the rest of the US.

Icy sidewalks are why we have laws requiring sidewalk clearance. If sidewalks/bike lanes are not treated on par with streets for cleaning, you’re preferring cars over humans. Which is a problem in itself.

And you don’t carry the bags of groceries by hand. You either dump them in a backpack or use a folding cart.

No one dying here either. You just need proper tires for the bikes. Yep, they make little snow chains.

http://thecityfix.com/files/2010/12/bicycling-snow.jpg%5B/quote%5D

[spdrun]

This says nothing about deaths and injuries from non-vehicular causes (i.e. falling on a sidewalk).

Not that I actually care that much about a 100% safe society. If we could achieve 0 deaths per year by cocooning everyone in self-driving cars from door to door, I’d still find the idea repulsive.

Basically, unless they can inteoperate with other modes of transportation and not make them less safe, they’re a non-starter in my book. If they move slowly and can route around bikes and work well with pedestrians, that’s great.

I don’t want the following scenario to take place…

You’d be trading car efficiency for walkability.

[no_such_reality]

That’s funny you don’t want that on cars, but that essentially is positive train control.

Los Angeles and California is experimenting with a road diet. Whether you agree with it or not, one of key premises is separation of pedestrians and bicyclists from motor vehicles. That’s good, because IMHO, pedestrians and cars don’t mix.

Walkability is great. Mobility is better. I enjoy a couple cafe, ice cream shop, and grocery store in walking range. I don’t need a department store, clothing store, fast food, home store in walking distance.

[spdrun]

Fact is that pedestrians need to be able to cross somewhere. Separation is good. Creating barriers to their crossing is not.

The systems where cars never stop for cross-traffic proposed by some people are idiotic, since they’ll pen pedestrians and cyclists into small areas. I’m not actually opposed to self-driving cars, but I think they should be short-distance and electric.

We should keep designing for walkability and invest heavily in electric transit that acts more like self-driving cars. Much easier and more efficient to power over longer distances since you need batteries, and it can be very frequent unlike current trains.

Walkability is mobility. If you can theoretically live your life within a few mile radius of a given point, then you’re mobile enough. Further mobility for recreational purposes is great, but it’s also great to live where you don’t HAVE to travel large distances for normal things.

This doesn’t have to be a city. Plenty of college towns in New England and the West Coast that are like that. I knew a lady who lived near Mt. Holyoke in MA without a car for about 30 years.

[njtosd]

[quote=spdrun]

Also, I think some of the innovations coming out of Sillycu*t Valley like self-driving cars will be actively socially and environmentally harmful.

[/quote]

Have you considered the issues facing elderly who cannot drive due to eyesight problems or disease (Parkinson’s)? They are trapped in their homes and currently can’t get out independently. I can’t imagine a life where I had to recruit someone else every time I wanted to go out. Plus, these people often have money that they would spend if they could get to the store. So I think these cars have significant potential for social good.

[FlyerInHi]

spd, you make fun of the puritan work ethic, but you expect people to refrain from doing things because they can — consuming, spending, doing stupid harmful stuff to the environment.

Well, it doesn’t work that ways. We do things because we can.

Driveless cars will happen because it’s too great a technology with too many implications (IT, networking, roadways, urban development, etc…). It will happen in fits and starts as an evolution to what we have today, which is sprawl. People will not abandon the existing sprawl to become ghost towns. We can only hope there will be less sprawl with future population growth. We can use technology to provide people with comfort and convenience, and enhance commerce.

[FlyerInHi]

[quote=spdrun]

Walkability is mobility. If you can theoretically live your life within a few mile radius of a given point, then you’re mobile enough. Further mobility for recreational purposes is great, but it’s also great to live where you don’t HAVE to travel large distances for normal things.[/quote]

Today, the guy who came to fix my dishwasher is a Bulgarian guy who told me how much he loves San Diego because back in Bulgaria he was just a few short blocks from the Black Sea. His hometown in Bulgaria was likely very walkable.

He can’t afford San Diego, but he and his wife visit SD about 4 times per year. He bought a fairly nice condo in Vegas, 1200sf, built in 2007, for $40k at the bottom; and it’s now worth $140k.

Guess what? He want to sell it to buy a house because he doesn’t like living in close proximity to neighbors, etc… He’s becoming the average suburban American, with cars, and pickup, etc… Not really the lifestyle I like but that’s what a whole lot of other people like.

One thing that I’ve learned is that things happen when they are good for commerce (the automobile was and created a brand new American way of life). Driverless cars have the potential to change the way we live, just like the automobile did in the 20th century. I hope to live another 50 years to see the changes.

[spdrun]

njtosd: I hope to die before I’m gimped to that point — I’d consider that a life unworthy of living.

FlyerInHI: it’s funny, if he weren’t such a dumb twat about neighbors, he could live in San Diego. $140k cash makes a pretty nice downpayment and $300k can still buy a 2-bedroom. Maybe not right near the ocean, but within 10 miles…

[FlyerInHi]

[quote=flyer]Per the op, I think most people in this country who have want they want for themselves and their families, and believe they can sustain their lifestyles for the duration of their lives are probably happy with the country, and those who can’t, aren’t.

Imo, the turmoil we’re seeing in the political arena seems to indicate there are more people who aren’t happy with the the country than those who are, but I seriously doubt if anyone in any party is going to be able to fix that to the degree that anyone who is not happy will ever notice.[/quote]

I wonder why there are so many angry people. What exactly are they upset about?

In the aggregate, things are pretty good. I read the economist and we seem to be managing our affairs pretty well compared to be rest of the world.

[njtosd]

[quote=spdrun]njtosd: I hope to die before I’m gimped to that point — I’d consider that a life unworthy of living.
.[/quote]

But (I’m sure you will be shocked to hear) public policy isn’t just for your benefit. We need to consider the greater good. And everyone says they don’t want to live in a diminished condition, until they get older and consider the alternative.

[no_such_reality]

[quote=FlyerInHi]

I wonder why there are so many angry people. What exactly are they upset about?

In the aggregate, things are pretty good. I read the economist and we seem to be managing our affairs pretty well compared to be rest of the world.[/quote]

For 80% of our population their economic situation is getting more precarious, not better. Couple that with the chronic noise stream of rhetoric and their BS meter going off every time a politician opens their mouth and the anger a fascination with no filter Trump is pretty clear, IMHO.

[spdrun]

Not so simple:
If everyone will be driven door to door with little walking and little cycling, we’ll end up with more obese cripples with bad knees at age 55, not healthier people. Policy should exist to encourage exercise and human mobility as part of urban design — it’s a lot easier to exercise when you have no choice vs going to the gym and running like a hamster on a bloody wheel.

Policy should be towards better health care and urban design so that most people don’t have to live as long as cripples before they kick the bucket. People usually don’t end up crippled when they’re old if they’ve made good choices.

Blindness often comes from diabetes (due to inactivity), so do things like kidney and walking impairment. Which is a nice way to say losing limbs.

[njtosd]

[quote=spdrun]Not so simple:
If everyone will be driven door to door with little walking and little cycling, we’ll end up with more obese cripples with bad knees at age 55, not healthier people. Policy should exist to encourage exercise and human mobility as part of urban design — it’s a lot easier to exercise when you have no choice vs going to the gym and running like a hamster on a bloody wheel.

Policy should be towards better health care and urban design so that most people don’t have to live as long as cripples before they kick the bucket. People usually don’t end up crippled when they’re old if they’ve made good choices.

Blindness often comes from diabetes (due to inactivity), so do things like kidney and walking impairment. Which is a nice way to say losing limbs.[/quote]

For once I basically agree with you. But, for example, my MIL (who I love) is 93 and sharp as a tack. She is also very proud and likes to be independent. Unfortunately, the cartilage in her knees is gone – and health conditions prevent knee replacement. So she has a hard time going out and can’t drive – and it bugs her to death. I agree healthy habits should be strongly encouraged, but at some point we will all need help.

According to a statistic I read years ago, children born in 1999 were the first to have a 50/50 chance of living to be 100. Bodies were not meant to last that long and regardless of habits, the majority of people will develop disabilities when they live past 80 or so. My dad was lucky – he was still walking a few miles a day at 84 when he developed a very rapidly progressing terminal illness. He only lived a few months in a diminished state. My mother, on the other hand, has had numerous auto immune illnesses (seems to be correlated with having kids, which I guess is a choice) which have incapacitated her. Their habits were very similar.

We want to believe we have control over these things, but genetics plays an enormous role . . .

And in terms of not wanting to get old, Roger Daltrey is 71.

[njtosd]

[quote=no_such_reality][quote=FlyerInHi]

I wonder why there are so many angry people. What exactly are they upset about?

In the aggregate, things are pretty good. I read the economist and we seem to be managing our affairs pretty well compared to be rest of the world.[/quote]

For 80% of our population their economic situation is getting more precarious, not better. Couple that with the chronic noise stream of rhetoric and their BS meter going off every time a politician opens their mouth and the anger a fascination with no filter Trump is pretty clear, IMHO.[/quote]

I think it’s the constant barrage from media of all types reminding us of the jerky things politicians say, the criminal things that people do (be it minorities, police, large corporations, etc.) the things that we don’t have ($, looks, 2% body fat, a full head of hair, runaway libido, fantastic house, rousing social life, etc.) and so on. Every time I look at the news I get mad about something – but for some reason I can’t look away. I long for Walter Cronkite.

[FlyerInHi]

Urban planning is local and has nothing to do with health. Zoning is legal under police powers

When I was a kid, my parents friends were smoking, drinking and enjoying. They didn’t mind dying earlier. Now they are crying “save me” and incurring exhorbitant health care bills that we all pay for.

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