State of the Union

[spdrun]

Not in real cities — NYC works well enough, and $2.75 ($2.50 after bulk discount) takes you anywhere in the city. I’m concerned that self-driving cars will preclude any investment in transit infrastructure, which wouldn’t work well in East Coast cities, since traffic is often limited by routes in/out of the city.

Interestingly, trains would lend themselves better to self-driving than cars. The electric ones don’t have to find fuel or a charge, and their routes are basically determined externally. So you end up with one axis of freedom (accelerate/brake) vs two (steer).

Things like subways would work amazingly well if you could have SHORTER trains off peak running as frequently as on-peak. Automation would lend itself to short trains since you don’t have to hire more motormen and conductors.

[FlyerInHi]

Other than NYC, real cities don’t exist in America. They are in Asia, Europe, Latin America, etc.

From an American perspective, you have to look at places like UTC, Mira Mesa, North Park and how they can be densified while improving quality of live. Getting rid of cars would make converting garages into living spaces possible. They could build granny flats or put small apartment/condo buildings where single family units once stood.

The whole field of urban planning would change with self driving cars.

[FlyerInHi]

[quote=spdrun]Not in real cities — NYC works well enough, and $2.75 ($2.50 after bulk discount) takes you anywhere in the city. I’m concerned that self-driving cars will preclude any investment in transit infrastructure, which wouldn’t work well in East Coast cities, since traffic is often limited by routes in/out of the city.

Interestingly, trains would lend themselves better to self-driving than cars. The electric ones don’t have to find fuel or a charge, and their routes are basically determined externally. So you end up with one axis of freedom (accelerate/brake) vs two (steer).

Things like subways would work amazingly well if you could have SHORTER trains off peak running as frequently as on-peak. Automation would lend itself to short trains since you don’t have to hire more motormen and conductors.[/quote]

Btw, in many ways I agree with you. Longer trains out of the city encourage sprawl. Short trains everywhere is better. I like the Paris system where everyone is within 500 meters of a subway station.

But I disagree with you about the convenience of the car. In NYC only rich people have cars, parking spaces, and chauffeurs. On call self drive would democratize cars and make them available to everyone. Suddenly everyone would enjoy higher standard of living thanks to technology and innovation.

[no_such_reality]

Taxis are $2/mi in nyc, unless I’ve missed a major change.

[scaredyclassic]

Sotu address redone as Wes Anderson movie:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2016/01/12/watch_the_state_of_the_union_as_directed_by_wes_anderson_video.html

[spdrun]

NSR: I was speaking to transit ($2.75/$2.50 per trip) not taxis in NYC. Sorry to be unclear.

FlyerInHI: cars have already been democratized. Anyone who wants to own a car in the USA can get one. It might be undemocratic in cities, but most residents have other options there, and inner-city residents are a small % of population.

Real cities: DC, Boston, parts of Chicago, SF, even San Diego. You could get away with living without a car in many parts of San Diego or even North County. I knew someone who did for quite a while.

[no_such_reality]

Ah, yes the subway in NYC proper is awesome. Even then in the burbs, it’s fairly common for car services to bulk price commuters, taking three or four at a time from the train station to the surrounding hoods for flat $5 fee each.

Still, owning a car runs around $15/day plus massive convenience. If we introduce a third apex, quality, I’d argue that it’s moderately high compared to current alternatives. NYC being a notable exception, were quality is on par or lower due to hassles of parking and congestion.

So much like the cost, quality, time paradigm for development, the existing automobile, is cheap, fast and relatively high quality. The future replacement can be cheaper, faster or high quality to supplant.

Self driving cars are here. By the time they go for sale, surely they’ll include a autonomous drop off and pickup.

There’s a major difference between “could” getaway without a car and no car being the more convenient, flexible and cost effective choice.

If I lived in DC, Boston, San Fran or NYC proper, I’d be sans car.

[spdrun]

If you’re a normal, physically-able person, you can (you know) WALK to the train station. Or ride a bike. Most stations are spaced a mile or two apart, which works fine for anyone who’s not a complete gimp. Door-to-door transportation is actually a bad thing which will discourage human activity.

I’m for slow technological progress — a perfect utopian world would actually be very unhealthy. The utopian ideal will just isolate people from serendipity and public life more, as if Americans aren’t isolated enough.

Individual transportation already uses a lot of energy and fossil fool. If we make it cheaper/faster/more convenient combined with low oil prices, it will translate to EVEN more fossil fool use.

Not good for the climate unless you’re one of the brainwashed cretins who denies that it’s a problem.

[no_such_reality]

Lol, unrealistic. Sure you could walk, there goes the time factor, a two mile walk will take 30-40 minutes. you could bike, now youre back to the parking issue.

Again, time, cost, and quality. The individual car is a very high standard.

And yes, I laugh hesterically when I see cars circling the parking lots at gyms.

Now, the important question: how much will the Tour de France 4D stationary training bike with integrated vehicle recharging option in my autonomous electric SUV cost and is it packaged with the full recline sonic shower seats?

[spdrun]

You can park about 20 bikes in the space where it takes to park one car. One to 1.5 hours’ of walking is healthy for every human. Call it a substitute for gym time.

Place like San Diego, with proper urban design, probably 3/4 of human transportation could be done by bike, or electrically augmented bike over 90% of the year.

The private car is comfortable, but it’s also a high standard of isolation and inefficiency.

Electric training bike in an SUV sounds like a recipe for motion sickness. I’d be ready to punch the designer of both in the throat after about 5 minutes.

[FlyerInHi]

[quote=spdrun]If you’re a normal, physically-able person, you can (you know) WALK to the train station. Or ride a bike. Most stations are spaced a mile or two apart, which works fine for anyone who’s not a complete gimp. Door-to-door transportation is actually a bad thing which will discourage human activity.

I’m for slow technological progress — a perfect utopian world would actually be very unhealthy. The utopian ideal will just isolate people from serendipity and public life more, as if Americans aren’t isolated enough.

Individual transportation already uses a lot of energy and fossil fool. If we make it cheaper/faster/more convenient combined with low oil prices, it will translate to EVEN more fossil fool use.

Not good for the climate unless you’re one of the brainwashed cretins who denies that it’s a problem.[/quote]

You need to account for people preference for a sedentary lifestyle and comfort. If you give people choices their choose physical comfort over long term health.

Good urban planning is easy. And we do a bad job at that in America. We
Substitute for more space and cars. In Singapore they have networks of coveref walkways so people don’t have to walk to the bus and subway under the rain and sun. If we want to encourage people to walk we need to make it more comfortable.

[no_such_reality]

Again, back to reality, we don’t have “proper” urban design. We have what we have. Now to find the best solutions for it. And yes, while an hour and half of walking is healthy for people, picking it as a standing part of their commute isn’t realistic. Nor is it realistic to factor it for a stroll on their basic errands.

I’ve done the mile plus walk from the grocery store by the train to the house in NY in December lugging two smallish bags of groceries navigating icey walkways, slop, the mist of salt and road water as cars go by and the relative warmth of upper teens temps with a good stiff breeze.

Invigorating, sure, as a one off. As dangerous as driving? Likely. Time consuming, yep. Possible on a bike, yep as long as I don’t mind the express ticket to meet my maker.

Most urban planners place the max reliable distance from public transit at a 1/4 mile, 400 meters and slightly longer for faster transit, i.e. 500 meters for the Paris Metro. That’s reality. It’s pretty consistent the world over.

Now, how to plan public transit for a population of 4 million covering 2.5 billion square meters roughly rectangular measuring 65000 meters by 40000 meters when they’ll reasonably travel 500 meters to use it.

edit: oops, dropped a zero…

[spdrun]

I haven’t heard of an epidemic of people dying in NYC by slipping and falling. Walking to the train is perfectly doable — most people where I grew up did it, and I didn’t hear of anyone dying. But there are fewer fats around NYC than in the rest of the US.

Icy sidewalks are why we have laws requiring sidewalk clearance. If sidewalks/bike lanes are not treated on par with streets for cleaning, you’re preferring cars over humans. Which is a problem in itself.

And you don’t carry the bags of groceries by hand. You either dump them in a backpack or use a folding cart.

No one dying here either. You just need proper tires for the bikes. Yep, they make little snow chains.

http://thecityfix.com/files/2010/12/bicycling-snow.jpg

[spdrun]

How to plan rail transportation? You build it to get people to the nearest 20 miles (or 50 miles in truly unpopulated areas). You make ubiquitous electric cars available (self-driving or self-drive) at the nodes to get people the last mile to their destination.

20-50 miles falls within the range requirements of even inexpensive electric cars, even in hot/cold weather where battery life is drastically reduced.

In more populated areas, you increase the density to 5 miles in exurbs, a mile in older-type suburbs, so on till you get to larger cities.

And you don’t run trains as we know them. You run smaller autonomous vehicles that can form trains and be flexible as far as routing. They don’t have to refuel/recharge, they don’t have batteries to degrade.

And you agree on a common electrical system rather than the mishmash we have in the US right now. 25,000 volts AC outside of city centers, 1000 or 600 volts DC in cities and underground.

[flyer]

Per the op, I think most people in this country who have want they want for themselves and their families, and believe they can sustain their lifestyles for the duration of their lives are probably happy with the country, and those who can’t, aren’t.

Imo, the turmoil we’re seeing in the political arena seems to indicate there are more people who aren’t happy with the the country than those who are, but I seriously doubt if anyone in any party is going to be able to fix that to the degree that anyone who is not happy will ever notice.

[Author]

Posts