Sorry about this OT

[waiting for bottom]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]

Except the data aren’t objective. Tomlin took over from Cowher, who had painstakingly built/rebuilt the Steelers during his tenure. In other words, Tomlin inherited a stable, winning organization from Cowher.

[/quote]

Ummm…the team Tomlin inherited was 8-8 and did not make the playoffs. In fact, it didn’t make the playoffs in two of Cowher’s last four years.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=waiting for bottom][quote=Allan from Fallbrook]

Except the data aren’t objective. Tomlin took over from Cowher, who had painstakingly built/rebuilt the Steelers during his tenure. In other words, Tomlin inherited a stable, winning organization from Cowher.

[/quote]

Ummm…the team Tomlin inherited was 8-8 and did not make the playoffs. In fact, it didn’t make the playoffs in two of Cowher’s last four years.[/quote]

You’re cherry picking data by only showing the last season before Cowher stepped down. Cowher had a better overall win percentage than Noll and Noll was replaced by Cowher after several lackluster seasons. In point of fact, look at Noll’s record from 1980 (right after the Steelers won Superbowl XIV following the 1979 season) to 1991 (his last season). The Steelers weren’t the vaunted winning machine they were in the 1970s and Cowher provided immediate improvement, going 11 – 5 his first season, after taking over from Noll and Noll’s final season mark of 7 – 9.

I will certainly agree that Cowher had down seasons, but, on balance, he built a quality, winning program at Pittsburgh. I’m sorry, but this is not the same team and I notice you haven’t answered the question about how you feel about them as a fan, especially the obvious lack of preparation, poor coaching decisions and a general sense of distractedness. This is NOT the same Steelers team.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=waiting for bottom][quote=Allan from Fallbrook]

Except the data aren’t objective. Tomlin took over from Cowher, who had painstakingly built/rebuilt the Steelers during his tenure. In other words, Tomlin inherited a stable, winning organization from Cowher.

[/quote]

Ummm…the team Tomlin inherited was 8-8 and did not make the playoffs. In fact, it didn’t make the playoffs in two of Cowher’s last four years.[/quote]

You’re cherry picking data by only showing the last season before Cowher stepped down. Cowher had a better overall win percentage than Noll and Noll was replaced by Cowher after several lackluster seasons. In point of fact, look at Noll’s record from 1980 (right after the Steelers won Superbowl XIV following the 1979 season) to 1991 (his last season). The Steelers weren’t the vaunted winning machine they were in the 1970s and Cowher provided immediate improvement, going 11 – 5 his first season, after taking over from Noll and Noll’s final season mark of 7 – 9.

I will certainly agree that Cowher had down seasons, but, on balance, he built a quality, winning program at Pittsburgh. I’m sorry, but this is not the same team and I notice you haven’t answered the question about how you feel about them as a fan, especially the obvious lack of preparation, poor coaching decisions and a general sense of distractedness. This is NOT the same Steelers team.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=waiting for bottom][quote=Allan from Fallbrook]

Except the data aren’t objective. Tomlin took over from Cowher, who had painstakingly built/rebuilt the Steelers during his tenure. In other words, Tomlin inherited a stable, winning organization from Cowher.

[/quote]

Ummm…the team Tomlin inherited was 8-8 and did not make the playoffs. In fact, it didn’t make the playoffs in two of Cowher’s last four years.[/quote]

You’re cherry picking data by only showing the last season before Cowher stepped down. Cowher had a better overall win percentage than Noll and Noll was replaced by Cowher after several lackluster seasons. In point of fact, look at Noll’s record from 1980 (right after the Steelers won Superbowl XIV following the 1979 season) to 1991 (his last season). The Steelers weren’t the vaunted winning machine they were in the 1970s and Cowher provided immediate improvement, going 11 – 5 his first season, after taking over from Noll and Noll’s final season mark of 7 – 9.

I will certainly agree that Cowher had down seasons, but, on balance, he built a quality, winning program at Pittsburgh. I’m sorry, but this is not the same team and I notice you haven’t answered the question about how you feel about them as a fan, especially the obvious lack of preparation, poor coaching decisions and a general sense of distractedness. This is NOT the same Steelers team.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=waiting for bottom][quote=Allan from Fallbrook]

Except the data aren’t objective. Tomlin took over from Cowher, who had painstakingly built/rebuilt the Steelers during his tenure. In other words, Tomlin inherited a stable, winning organization from Cowher.

[/quote]

Ummm…the team Tomlin inherited was 8-8 and did not make the playoffs. In fact, it didn’t make the playoffs in two of Cowher’s last four years.[/quote]

You’re cherry picking data by only showing the last season before Cowher stepped down. Cowher had a better overall win percentage than Noll and Noll was replaced by Cowher after several lackluster seasons. In point of fact, look at Noll’s record from 1980 (right after the Steelers won Superbowl XIV following the 1979 season) to 1991 (his last season). The Steelers weren’t the vaunted winning machine they were in the 1970s and Cowher provided immediate improvement, going 11 – 5 his first season, after taking over from Noll and Noll’s final season mark of 7 – 9.

I will certainly agree that Cowher had down seasons, but, on balance, he built a quality, winning program at Pittsburgh. I’m sorry, but this is not the same team and I notice you haven’t answered the question about how you feel about them as a fan, especially the obvious lack of preparation, poor coaching decisions and a general sense of distractedness. This is NOT the same Steelers team.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=waiting for bottom][quote=Allan from Fallbrook]

Except the data aren’t objective. Tomlin took over from Cowher, who had painstakingly built/rebuilt the Steelers during his tenure. In other words, Tomlin inherited a stable, winning organization from Cowher.

[/quote]

Ummm…the team Tomlin inherited was 8-8 and did not make the playoffs. In fact, it didn’t make the playoffs in two of Cowher’s last four years.[/quote]

You’re cherry picking data by only showing the last season before Cowher stepped down. Cowher had a better overall win percentage than Noll and Noll was replaced by Cowher after several lackluster seasons. In point of fact, look at Noll’s record from 1980 (right after the Steelers won Superbowl XIV following the 1979 season) to 1991 (his last season). The Steelers weren’t the vaunted winning machine they were in the 1970s and Cowher provided immediate improvement, going 11 – 5 his first season, after taking over from Noll and Noll’s final season mark of 7 – 9.

I will certainly agree that Cowher had down seasons, but, on balance, he built a quality, winning program at Pittsburgh. I’m sorry, but this is not the same team and I notice you haven’t answered the question about how you feel about them as a fan, especially the obvious lack of preparation, poor coaching decisions and a general sense of distractedness. This is NOT the same Steelers team.

[waiting for bottom]

See my previous post. The talent changed, thus the system had to change.

You are cherry picking one bad season from Tomlin to paint him as a bad coach. He may or may not be, but you are chumping to conclusions based on one bad season.

This reminds me of 2003. Steelers went 11-4-1 in 2002 and completely fell apart in 2003. It was the secondary and the OL that was the problem then and now. Enter Polamalu in 2004 and a healthy Marvel Smith and boom…6-10 turns into 15-1.

Cowher is a Big Ben shoe-string tackle away from being Marty Schottenheimer. Not that that’s a bad thing. He did a great job with the Stillers, but he had his down seasons too.

Why not bash Colbert? He picked Timmons over Leon Hall in 2007 and then Mendenhall over Chris Johnson in 2008. Those two changes might have helped our running game and pass defense, eh?

[waiting for bottom]

See my previous post. The talent changed, thus the system had to change.

You are cherry picking one bad season from Tomlin to paint him as a bad coach. He may or may not be, but you are chumping to conclusions based on one bad season.

This reminds me of 2003. Steelers went 11-4-1 in 2002 and completely fell apart in 2003. It was the secondary and the OL that was the problem then and now. Enter Polamalu in 2004 and a healthy Marvel Smith and boom…6-10 turns into 15-1.

Cowher is a Big Ben shoe-string tackle away from being Marty Schottenheimer. Not that that’s a bad thing. He did a great job with the Stillers, but he had his down seasons too.

Why not bash Colbert? He picked Timmons over Leon Hall in 2007 and then Mendenhall over Chris Johnson in 2008. Those two changes might have helped our running game and pass defense, eh?

[waiting for bottom]

See my previous post. The talent changed, thus the system had to change.

You are cherry picking one bad season from Tomlin to paint him as a bad coach. He may or may not be, but you are chumping to conclusions based on one bad season.

This reminds me of 2003. Steelers went 11-4-1 in 2002 and completely fell apart in 2003. It was the secondary and the OL that was the problem then and now. Enter Polamalu in 2004 and a healthy Marvel Smith and boom…6-10 turns into 15-1.

Cowher is a Big Ben shoe-string tackle away from being Marty Schottenheimer. Not that that’s a bad thing. He did a great job with the Stillers, but he had his down seasons too.

Why not bash Colbert? He picked Timmons over Leon Hall in 2007 and then Mendenhall over Chris Johnson in 2008. Those two changes might have helped our running game and pass defense, eh?

[waiting for bottom]

See my previous post. The talent changed, thus the system had to change.

You are cherry picking one bad season from Tomlin to paint him as a bad coach. He may or may not be, but you are chumping to conclusions based on one bad season.

This reminds me of 2003. Steelers went 11-4-1 in 2002 and completely fell apart in 2003. It was the secondary and the OL that was the problem then and now. Enter Polamalu in 2004 and a healthy Marvel Smith and boom…6-10 turns into 15-1.

Cowher is a Big Ben shoe-string tackle away from being Marty Schottenheimer. Not that that’s a bad thing. He did a great job with the Stillers, but he had his down seasons too.

Why not bash Colbert? He picked Timmons over Leon Hall in 2007 and then Mendenhall over Chris Johnson in 2008. Those two changes might have helped our running game and pass defense, eh?

[waiting for bottom]

See my previous post. The talent changed, thus the system had to change.

You are cherry picking one bad season from Tomlin to paint him as a bad coach. He may or may not be, but you are chumping to conclusions based on one bad season.

This reminds me of 2003. Steelers went 11-4-1 in 2002 and completely fell apart in 2003. It was the secondary and the OL that was the problem then and now. Enter Polamalu in 2004 and a healthy Marvel Smith and boom…6-10 turns into 15-1.

Cowher is a Big Ben shoe-string tackle away from being Marty Schottenheimer. Not that that’s a bad thing. He did a great job with the Stillers, but he had his down seasons too.

Why not bash Colbert? He picked Timmons over Leon Hall in 2007 and then Mendenhall over Chris Johnson in 2008. Those two changes might have helped our running game and pass defense, eh?

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=waiting for bottom]See my previous post. The talent changed, thus the system had to change.

You are cherry picking one bad season from Tomlin to paint him as a bad coach. He may or may not be, but you are chumping to conclusions based on one bad season.

This reminds me of 2003. Steelers went 11-4-1 in 2002 and completely fell apart in 2003. It was the secondary and the OL that was the problem then and now. Enter Polamalu in 2004 and a healthy Marvel Smith and boom…6-10 turns into 15-1.

Cowher is a Big Ben shoe-string tackle away from being Marty Schottenheimer. Not that that’s a bad thing. He did a great job with the Stillers, but he had his down seasons too.

Why not bash Colbert? He picked Timmons over Leon Hall in 2007 and then Mendenhall over Chris Johnson in 2008. Those two changes might have helped our running game and pass defense, eh?[/quote]

I can’t disagree with you regarding Colbert or the potential Chris Johnson trade. I shudder to think about the Steelers with Chris Johnson in the backfield.

I also don’t disagree about the vagaries of fate and injuries. Like I said, I’m not trying to bash Tomlin, but you can’t argue that coaching is key and this team, injuries notwithstanding, just does NOT look like the Steelers of old. They don’t play with the same intensity (and, yeah, Troy’s injury makes a difference) on defense and that O line is far too porous to allow for sustained drives, especially with the absence of a power running game.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=waiting for bottom]See my previous post. The talent changed, thus the system had to change.

You are cherry picking one bad season from Tomlin to paint him as a bad coach. He may or may not be, but you are chumping to conclusions based on one bad season.

This reminds me of 2003. Steelers went 11-4-1 in 2002 and completely fell apart in 2003. It was the secondary and the OL that was the problem then and now. Enter Polamalu in 2004 and a healthy Marvel Smith and boom…6-10 turns into 15-1.

Cowher is a Big Ben shoe-string tackle away from being Marty Schottenheimer. Not that that’s a bad thing. He did a great job with the Stillers, but he had his down seasons too.

Why not bash Colbert? He picked Timmons over Leon Hall in 2007 and then Mendenhall over Chris Johnson in 2008. Those two changes might have helped our running game and pass defense, eh?[/quote]

I can’t disagree with you regarding Colbert or the potential Chris Johnson trade. I shudder to think about the Steelers with Chris Johnson in the backfield.

I also don’t disagree about the vagaries of fate and injuries. Like I said, I’m not trying to bash Tomlin, but you can’t argue that coaching is key and this team, injuries notwithstanding, just does NOT look like the Steelers of old. They don’t play with the same intensity (and, yeah, Troy’s injury makes a difference) on defense and that O line is far too porous to allow for sustained drives, especially with the absence of a power running game.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=waiting for bottom]See my previous post. The talent changed, thus the system had to change.

You are cherry picking one bad season from Tomlin to paint him as a bad coach. He may or may not be, but you are chumping to conclusions based on one bad season.

This reminds me of 2003. Steelers went 11-4-1 in 2002 and completely fell apart in 2003. It was the secondary and the OL that was the problem then and now. Enter Polamalu in 2004 and a healthy Marvel Smith and boom…6-10 turns into 15-1.

Cowher is a Big Ben shoe-string tackle away from being Marty Schottenheimer. Not that that’s a bad thing. He did a great job with the Stillers, but he had his down seasons too.

Why not bash Colbert? He picked Timmons over Leon Hall in 2007 and then Mendenhall over Chris Johnson in 2008. Those two changes might have helped our running game and pass defense, eh?[/quote]

I can’t disagree with you regarding Colbert or the potential Chris Johnson trade. I shudder to think about the Steelers with Chris Johnson in the backfield.

I also don’t disagree about the vagaries of fate and injuries. Like I said, I’m not trying to bash Tomlin, but you can’t argue that coaching is key and this team, injuries notwithstanding, just does NOT look like the Steelers of old. They don’t play with the same intensity (and, yeah, Troy’s injury makes a difference) on defense and that O line is far too porous to allow for sustained drives, especially with the absence of a power running game.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=waiting for bottom]See my previous post. The talent changed, thus the system had to change.

You are cherry picking one bad season from Tomlin to paint him as a bad coach. He may or may not be, but you are chumping to conclusions based on one bad season.

This reminds me of 2003. Steelers went 11-4-1 in 2002 and completely fell apart in 2003. It was the secondary and the OL that was the problem then and now. Enter Polamalu in 2004 and a healthy Marvel Smith and boom…6-10 turns into 15-1.

Cowher is a Big Ben shoe-string tackle away from being Marty Schottenheimer. Not that that’s a bad thing. He did a great job with the Stillers, but he had his down seasons too.

Why not bash Colbert? He picked Timmons over Leon Hall in 2007 and then Mendenhall over Chris Johnson in 2008. Those two changes might have helped our running game and pass defense, eh?[/quote]

I can’t disagree with you regarding Colbert or the potential Chris Johnson trade. I shudder to think about the Steelers with Chris Johnson in the backfield.

I also don’t disagree about the vagaries of fate and injuries. Like I said, I’m not trying to bash Tomlin, but you can’t argue that coaching is key and this team, injuries notwithstanding, just does NOT look like the Steelers of old. They don’t play with the same intensity (and, yeah, Troy’s injury makes a difference) on defense and that O line is far too porous to allow for sustained drives, especially with the absence of a power running game.

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