“The Worst Is Yet to Come”: If You’re Not Petrified, You’re Not Paying Attention”

[davelj]

[quote=Rt.66]

I wonder how students seeking work are included in employment numbers? Anyway, its sad.

[/quote]

The same way folks that retire every day are counted. We have new graduates every year entering the workforce and we have new folks retiring every year leaving it. Since our population is aging in aggregate, the percentage of folks leaving the workforce through retirement is increasing relative to the percentage entering it, which is a problem where SS and Medicare are concerned. Also, I assume plenty of folks are deferring retirement – as they should – these days. But, my point is, you can’t just analyze the number of folks naturally entering the workforce without taking into account the folks naturally leaving it as well.

[davelj]

[quote=Rt.66]
“Debt can no longer be sold as an “asset”. It’s that simple.”

[/quote]

What is this supposed to mean? One entity’s debt is another entity’s asset. That’s an accounting tautology. Now, if it were reworded to say, “Most debt is trading below its par value and there will be plenty of losses on these assets,” well then that makes sense. Or perhaps, “It’s much harder to sell debt today on the same terms as a few years back,” that makes sense as well. But I can tell you that there is plenty of debt being sold out there every day, even in this environment.

But, “Debt can no longer be sold as an asset”? That’s patently absurd. I’m curious as to who managed to get themselves quoted saying that.

[davelj]

[quote=Rt.66]
“Debt can no longer be sold as an “asset”. It’s that simple.”

[/quote]

What is this supposed to mean? One entity’s debt is another entity’s asset. That’s an accounting tautology. Now, if it were reworded to say, “Most debt is trading below its par value and there will be plenty of losses on these assets,” well then that makes sense. Or perhaps, “It’s much harder to sell debt today on the same terms as a few years back,” that makes sense as well. But I can tell you that there is plenty of debt being sold out there every day, even in this environment.

But, “Debt can no longer be sold as an asset”? That’s patently absurd. I’m curious as to who managed to get themselves quoted saying that.

[davelj]

[quote=Rt.66]
“Debt can no longer be sold as an “asset”. It’s that simple.”

[/quote]

What is this supposed to mean? One entity’s debt is another entity’s asset. That’s an accounting tautology. Now, if it were reworded to say, “Most debt is trading below its par value and there will be plenty of losses on these assets,” well then that makes sense. Or perhaps, “It’s much harder to sell debt today on the same terms as a few years back,” that makes sense as well. But I can tell you that there is plenty of debt being sold out there every day, even in this environment.

But, “Debt can no longer be sold as an asset”? That’s patently absurd. I’m curious as to who managed to get themselves quoted saying that.

[davelj]

[quote=Rt.66]
“Debt can no longer be sold as an “asset”. It’s that simple.”

[/quote]

What is this supposed to mean? One entity’s debt is another entity’s asset. That’s an accounting tautology. Now, if it were reworded to say, “Most debt is trading below its par value and there will be plenty of losses on these assets,” well then that makes sense. Or perhaps, “It’s much harder to sell debt today on the same terms as a few years back,” that makes sense as well. But I can tell you that there is plenty of debt being sold out there every day, even in this environment.

But, “Debt can no longer be sold as an asset”? That’s patently absurd. I’m curious as to who managed to get themselves quoted saying that.

[davelj]

[quote=Rt.66]
“Debt can no longer be sold as an “asset”. It’s that simple.”

[/quote]

What is this supposed to mean? One entity’s debt is another entity’s asset. That’s an accounting tautology. Now, if it were reworded to say, “Most debt is trading below its par value and there will be plenty of losses on these assets,” well then that makes sense. Or perhaps, “It’s much harder to sell debt today on the same terms as a few years back,” that makes sense as well. But I can tell you that there is plenty of debt being sold out there every day, even in this environment.

But, “Debt can no longer be sold as an asset”? That’s patently absurd. I’m curious as to who managed to get themselves quoted saying that.

[Rt.66]

[quote=davelj][quote=Rt.66]
“Debt can no longer be sold as an “asset”. It’s that simple.”

[/quote]

What is this supposed to mean? One entity’s debt is another entity’s asset. That’s an accounting tautology. Now, if it were reworded to say, “Most debt is trading below its par value and there will be plenty of losses on these assets,” well then that makes sense. Or perhaps, “It’s much harder to sell debt today on the same terms as a few years back,” that makes sense as well. But I can tell you that there is plenty of debt being sold out there every day, even in this environment.

But, “Debt can no longer be sold as an asset”? That’s patently absurd. I’m curious as to who managed to get themselves quoted saying that.[/quote]

Umm….are you suggesting there IS a market for the Mortgage Backed Securities, Commercial Securities, Consumer Credit Securities, etc?

I heard somewhere the market froze up and they were selling for $0.05 on the dollar and there was some historic emergency and something about bailouts and printing presses.

Iceland would love to hear from you if you have some buyers lined up.

I think they were trying to make poignant statement and not stating that is the case in every circumstance today. Three years ago any kind of debt could be package up and sold to Italian retirees and English pension funds. That has changed enough to justify the statement, I think.

[Rt.66]

[quote=davelj][quote=Rt.66]
“Debt can no longer be sold as an “asset”. It’s that simple.”

[/quote]

What is this supposed to mean? One entity’s debt is another entity’s asset. That’s an accounting tautology. Now, if it were reworded to say, “Most debt is trading below its par value and there will be plenty of losses on these assets,” well then that makes sense. Or perhaps, “It’s much harder to sell debt today on the same terms as a few years back,” that makes sense as well. But I can tell you that there is plenty of debt being sold out there every day, even in this environment.

But, “Debt can no longer be sold as an asset”? That’s patently absurd. I’m curious as to who managed to get themselves quoted saying that.[/quote]

Umm….are you suggesting there IS a market for the Mortgage Backed Securities, Commercial Securities, Consumer Credit Securities, etc?

I heard somewhere the market froze up and they were selling for $0.05 on the dollar and there was some historic emergency and something about bailouts and printing presses.

Iceland would love to hear from you if you have some buyers lined up.

I think they were trying to make poignant statement and not stating that is the case in every circumstance today. Three years ago any kind of debt could be package up and sold to Italian retirees and English pension funds. That has changed enough to justify the statement, I think.

[Rt.66]

[quote=davelj][quote=Rt.66]
“Debt can no longer be sold as an “asset”. It’s that simple.”

[/quote]

What is this supposed to mean? One entity’s debt is another entity’s asset. That’s an accounting tautology. Now, if it were reworded to say, “Most debt is trading below its par value and there will be plenty of losses on these assets,” well then that makes sense. Or perhaps, “It’s much harder to sell debt today on the same terms as a few years back,” that makes sense as well. But I can tell you that there is plenty of debt being sold out there every day, even in this environment.

But, “Debt can no longer be sold as an asset”? That’s patently absurd. I’m curious as to who managed to get themselves quoted saying that.[/quote]

Umm….are you suggesting there IS a market for the Mortgage Backed Securities, Commercial Securities, Consumer Credit Securities, etc?

I heard somewhere the market froze up and they were selling for $0.05 on the dollar and there was some historic emergency and something about bailouts and printing presses.

Iceland would love to hear from you if you have some buyers lined up.

I think they were trying to make poignant statement and not stating that is the case in every circumstance today. Three years ago any kind of debt could be package up and sold to Italian retirees and English pension funds. That has changed enough to justify the statement, I think.

[Rt.66]

[quote=davelj][quote=Rt.66]
“Debt can no longer be sold as an “asset”. It’s that simple.”

[/quote]

What is this supposed to mean? One entity’s debt is another entity’s asset. That’s an accounting tautology. Now, if it were reworded to say, “Most debt is trading below its par value and there will be plenty of losses on these assets,” well then that makes sense. Or perhaps, “It’s much harder to sell debt today on the same terms as a few years back,” that makes sense as well. But I can tell you that there is plenty of debt being sold out there every day, even in this environment.

But, “Debt can no longer be sold as an asset”? That’s patently absurd. I’m curious as to who managed to get themselves quoted saying that.[/quote]

Umm….are you suggesting there IS a market for the Mortgage Backed Securities, Commercial Securities, Consumer Credit Securities, etc?

I heard somewhere the market froze up and they were selling for $0.05 on the dollar and there was some historic emergency and something about bailouts and printing presses.

Iceland would love to hear from you if you have some buyers lined up.

I think they were trying to make poignant statement and not stating that is the case in every circumstance today. Three years ago any kind of debt could be package up and sold to Italian retirees and English pension funds. That has changed enough to justify the statement, I think.

[Rt.66]

[quote=davelj][quote=Rt.66]
“Debt can no longer be sold as an “asset”. It’s that simple.”

[/quote]

What is this supposed to mean? One entity’s debt is another entity’s asset. That’s an accounting tautology. Now, if it were reworded to say, “Most debt is trading below its par value and there will be plenty of losses on these assets,” well then that makes sense. Or perhaps, “It’s much harder to sell debt today on the same terms as a few years back,” that makes sense as well. But I can tell you that there is plenty of debt being sold out there every day, even in this environment.

But, “Debt can no longer be sold as an asset”? That’s patently absurd. I’m curious as to who managed to get themselves quoted saying that.[/quote]

Umm….are you suggesting there IS a market for the Mortgage Backed Securities, Commercial Securities, Consumer Credit Securities, etc?

I heard somewhere the market froze up and they were selling for $0.05 on the dollar and there was some historic emergency and something about bailouts and printing presses.

Iceland would love to hear from you if you have some buyers lined up.

I think they were trying to make poignant statement and not stating that is the case in every circumstance today. Three years ago any kind of debt could be package up and sold to Italian retirees and English pension funds. That has changed enough to justify the statement, I think.

[davelj]

[quote=Rt.66]

Umm….are you suggesting there IS a market for the Mortgage Backed Securities, Commercial Securities, Consumer Credit Securities, etc?

I heard somewhere the market froze up and they were selling for $0.05 on the dollar and there was some historic emergency and something about bailouts and printing presses.

Iceland would love to hear from you if you have some buyers lined up.

You my friend are now quoted as stating:
“Debt can no longer be sold as an asset”? “That’s patently absurd.”” [/quote]

There’s a market for all types of debt… at a price. If I buy some MBS for 10 cents on the dollar, or 60 cents on the dollar, or whatever… that’s going to be an asset to me. Simple as that.

I just bought a senior convertible security with a 9% coupon in a company the other day for my partnership. That’s debt. It’s an asset for my partnership.

Again, one entity’s debt is another entity’s asset. What value that asset might have is a separate issue. But debt is trading every day. Boatloads of it. Check the tape. Some of it with liquidity provided by Uncle Sam – but that’s completely beside the point where your original assertion is concerned, despite your effort to change the subject. There is a rather large difference between saying that, “The terms on debt are materially worse today than they were three years go and a lot of debt trades at significant discounts to par value,” and saying, “Debt can no longer be sold as an asset.” Exactly what part of this do you not understand?

[davelj]

[quote=Rt.66]

Umm….are you suggesting there IS a market for the Mortgage Backed Securities, Commercial Securities, Consumer Credit Securities, etc?

I heard somewhere the market froze up and they were selling for $0.05 on the dollar and there was some historic emergency and something about bailouts and printing presses.

Iceland would love to hear from you if you have some buyers lined up.

You my friend are now quoted as stating:
“Debt can no longer be sold as an asset”? “That’s patently absurd.”” [/quote]

There’s a market for all types of debt… at a price. If I buy some MBS for 10 cents on the dollar, or 60 cents on the dollar, or whatever… that’s going to be an asset to me. Simple as that.

I just bought a senior convertible security with a 9% coupon in a company the other day for my partnership. That’s debt. It’s an asset for my partnership.

Again, one entity’s debt is another entity’s asset. What value that asset might have is a separate issue. But debt is trading every day. Boatloads of it. Check the tape. Some of it with liquidity provided by Uncle Sam – but that’s completely beside the point where your original assertion is concerned, despite your effort to change the subject. There is a rather large difference between saying that, “The terms on debt are materially worse today than they were three years go and a lot of debt trades at significant discounts to par value,” and saying, “Debt can no longer be sold as an asset.” Exactly what part of this do you not understand?

[davelj]

[quote=Rt.66]

Umm….are you suggesting there IS a market for the Mortgage Backed Securities, Commercial Securities, Consumer Credit Securities, etc?

I heard somewhere the market froze up and they were selling for $0.05 on the dollar and there was some historic emergency and something about bailouts and printing presses.

Iceland would love to hear from you if you have some buyers lined up.

You my friend are now quoted as stating:
“Debt can no longer be sold as an asset”? “That’s patently absurd.”” [/quote]

There’s a market for all types of debt… at a price. If I buy some MBS for 10 cents on the dollar, or 60 cents on the dollar, or whatever… that’s going to be an asset to me. Simple as that.

I just bought a senior convertible security with a 9% coupon in a company the other day for my partnership. That’s debt. It’s an asset for my partnership.

Again, one entity’s debt is another entity’s asset. What value that asset might have is a separate issue. But debt is trading every day. Boatloads of it. Check the tape. Some of it with liquidity provided by Uncle Sam – but that’s completely beside the point where your original assertion is concerned, despite your effort to change the subject. There is a rather large difference between saying that, “The terms on debt are materially worse today than they were three years go and a lot of debt trades at significant discounts to par value,” and saying, “Debt can no longer be sold as an asset.” Exactly what part of this do you not understand?

[davelj]

[quote=Rt.66]

Umm….are you suggesting there IS a market for the Mortgage Backed Securities, Commercial Securities, Consumer Credit Securities, etc?

I heard somewhere the market froze up and they were selling for $0.05 on the dollar and there was some historic emergency and something about bailouts and printing presses.

Iceland would love to hear from you if you have some buyers lined up.

You my friend are now quoted as stating:
“Debt can no longer be sold as an asset”? “That’s patently absurd.”” [/quote]

There’s a market for all types of debt… at a price. If I buy some MBS for 10 cents on the dollar, or 60 cents on the dollar, or whatever… that’s going to be an asset to me. Simple as that.

I just bought a senior convertible security with a 9% coupon in a company the other day for my partnership. That’s debt. It’s an asset for my partnership.

Again, one entity’s debt is another entity’s asset. What value that asset might have is a separate issue. But debt is trading every day. Boatloads of it. Check the tape. Some of it with liquidity provided by Uncle Sam – but that’s completely beside the point where your original assertion is concerned, despite your effort to change the subject. There is a rather large difference between saying that, “The terms on debt are materially worse today than they were three years go and a lot of debt trades at significant discounts to par value,” and saying, “Debt can no longer be sold as an asset.” Exactly what part of this do you not understand?

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