Quit whinning about bail outs

[Multiplepropertyowner]

I know most of you are bitter because you don’t own homes. Thus, the tenor of this forum, which is generally caustic. Watching others suffer makes you feel a bit better about your situation as a renter.

Thus, you gloat about the crash of the market. You had better wake up and realize that without federal intervention, we will be facing an economic meltdown, which will eclipse the 1930’s. Even with intervention, things might still go that way. Most (not all) of you seem to think that as soon as the market slips 20-30% you can all cash in on that dream house. Trust me, if the market falls like that, you most likely won’t have a job to even buy a $100,000 home.
Is it fair? No, but life is not fair. Wake up. You want a bail out. Yes, you might not get that killer beach pad, but you won’t be standing in a bread line with your kids like I did with my parents as a child.

[NotCranky]

I was going to call you a troll but some thoughts came to mind about what I am coming to believe blog forums like this are.

This comes to mind.
http://www.offtolondon.com/hyde_speak.html

I don’t disagree with you completely. I appreciate the occasional visit from someone with a style that is worse than mine.
Cheers

[TheBreeze]

Multipleprop,

If it weren’t for the fact that I could buy and sell you 3x over, I might be bitter.

[NotCranky]

speak of the devil…

[NotCranky]

speak of the devil…

[NotCranky]

speak of the devil…

[NotCranky]

speak of the devil…

[NotCranky]

speak of the devil…

[TheBreeze]

Multipleprop,

If it weren’t for the fact that I could buy and sell you 3x over, I might be bitter.

[TheBreeze]

Multipleprop,

If it weren’t for the fact that I could buy and sell you 3x over, I might be bitter.

[TheBreeze]

Multipleprop,

If it weren’t for the fact that I could buy and sell you 3x over, I might be bitter.

[TheBreeze]

Multipleprop,

If it weren’t for the fact that I could buy and sell you 3x over, I might be bitter.

[Bugs]

There’s a pretty sizable percentage of owners on this forum – people who bought pre-bubble and have little exposure to equity losses. There are a number of other regulars who rent now because they were smart enough to sell while they still had equity.

Whether it’s gloating (your view) or scheming for the next opportunity (our view) is irrelevant. The market isn’t tanking because the subject is under discussion on the various blogs. The subject is under discussion on the various blogs because the market is tanking. Only a moron would think that this market is going down because of negative press.

“Wishing” for the market to tank or wishing for it to not tank is equally effective, which is to say, it’s a complete waste of time. The market will correct because it got distorted and it must correct. Action-reaction. No amount of singing Kumbaya or dancing around a fire and chanting magical incantations is going to change that.

You’d be better off spending your energy dealing with what is than wasting that energy complaining about the people who correctly forecasw this happening before it did.

[blackbox]

The market already has slipped 20 to 30%.
We’re waiting for 40-60%.
Geez, dude, where have you been?

no matter who gets involved, or what gets involved, this housing market will eventually settle at affortability.
Ofcourse its to no one interest that the economy craters, except for the gold/cheese and cracker horders.

Actually I would like a nice smooth transisiton to affortability where a median family income has a hope of buying a median priced home, which will happen one way or another. That will happen no matter the bailout or no bailout. It’s just a matter of how and in what timeframe.

I think most of the folks on the website have above median income, above average savings, great credit score, and plenty of common sense. We will buy when it makes economic sense, and not when some idiot thinks we should. The home buyer boycott will continue until the historical income/home price ratio occurs once again, and the market will for a very long time lack the idiots that bought just because they could. No matter who gets to keep their homes because they get thier mortgage rates frozen, this market will no longer be determined by the amount of foreclosures, but by the very few that will actually qualify for a mortgage in the newly tighten mortgage market, and we are not buying at your fantasy prices. The current fore sale housing inventory, and that the inventory still coming on line locks that fact in. The bailout came just a little to late to make any real impact of where home prices are heading (down), but with plenty of time avoid a economic meltdown. PERFECT!

[sdrealtor]

blackbox,
One problem with the median income logic is that the median income household does not generally purchase the median priced home. They never have except for during this bubble.

This is a rough example but you should et my point. Typically (of course there are exceptions), the bottom half of households (incomewise) do not buy homes. The upper half does. So effectively it is the 75th percentile that is buying the median priced home. Furthermore, in a high cost such as SoCal most of the buyers are generally skewed toward higher incomes more than in a more affordable area. The credit bubble put median and below income households in homes they never should have been in. With lending standards restored, median incomes household will once again only dream of owning median priced homes.

I hope you dont plan on being one of them.

[San Diego Native]

Multiple. . .

Agree with some of your points. If things get as bad as they most likely will become in this country, the price of housing will be the least of anyone’s concerns. Better have everything paid off, with zero debt.

Everything in life is relative. Concerning the current elation about real estate prices dropping in San Diego. When I hear people discussing the fact that they found some dumpy house in a dumpy neighborhood for $500K, and feel they got the “deal of a lifetime,” I cringe.

At 41, I may be a little older than most on this forum, but we bought our home in a prime area of La Jolla for the very low six figures almost twenty years ago, and I can’t fathom paying anything over that for a primary residence or income property.

Again. Everything is relative.

[San Diego Native]

Multiple. . .

Agree with some of your points. If things get as bad as they most likely will become in this country, the price of housing will be the least of anyone’s concerns. Better have everything paid off, with zero debt.

Everything in life is relative. Concerning the current elation about real estate prices dropping in San Diego. When I hear people discussing the fact that they found some dumpy house in a dumpy neighborhood for $500K, and feel they got the “deal of a lifetime,” I cringe.

At 41, I may be a little older than most on this forum, but we bought our home in a prime area of La Jolla for the very low six figures almost twenty years ago, and I can’t fathom paying anything over that for a primary residence or income property.

Again. Everything is relative.

[San Diego Native]

Multiple. . .

Agree with some of your points. If things get as bad as they most likely will become in this country, the price of housing will be the least of anyone’s concerns. Better have everything paid off, with zero debt.

Everything in life is relative. Concerning the current elation about real estate prices dropping in San Diego. When I hear people discussing the fact that they found some dumpy house in a dumpy neighborhood for $500K, and feel they got the “deal of a lifetime,” I cringe.

At 41, I may be a little older than most on this forum, but we bought our home in a prime area of La Jolla for the very low six figures almost twenty years ago, and I can’t fathom paying anything over that for a primary residence or income property.

Again. Everything is relative.

[San Diego Native]

Multiple. . .

Agree with some of your points. If things get as bad as they most likely will become in this country, the price of housing will be the least of anyone’s concerns. Better have everything paid off, with zero debt.

Everything in life is relative. Concerning the current elation about real estate prices dropping in San Diego. When I hear people discussing the fact that they found some dumpy house in a dumpy neighborhood for $500K, and feel they got the “deal of a lifetime,” I cringe.

At 41, I may be a little older than most on this forum, but we bought our home in a prime area of La Jolla for the very low six figures almost twenty years ago, and I can’t fathom paying anything over that for a primary residence or income property.

Again. Everything is relative.

[San Diego Native]

Multiple. . .

Agree with some of your points. If things get as bad as they most likely will become in this country, the price of housing will be the least of anyone’s concerns. Better have everything paid off, with zero debt.

Everything in life is relative. Concerning the current elation about real estate prices dropping in San Diego. When I hear people discussing the fact that they found some dumpy house in a dumpy neighborhood for $500K, and feel they got the “deal of a lifetime,” I cringe.

At 41, I may be a little older than most on this forum, but we bought our home in a prime area of La Jolla for the very low six figures almost twenty years ago, and I can’t fathom paying anything over that for a primary residence or income property.

Again. Everything is relative.

[sdnativeson]

sdrealtor, your posts are usually both informative and lucid
in contrast to some others here. Your comments above are for the most part accurate, I am glad you qualified them with “rough example” though. Today, I can’t help but think the 75th percentile is optimistic.

“the median income household does not generally purchase the median priced home” I assume you are speaking to current market times here?

I think it’s wonderful that so many here must be pulling down 3,4,5,6 etc. times the median income in San Diego. A 55,000 to 60,000 income seems to be the most common for San Diego.

It’s often said here (or was) that the SD market will correct to the point that homes become affordable for the middle class here – market fundamentals. From my infrequent visits lately it seems to be that opinion is/has disappeared.

I can’t help but think of a post from a realtor who was showing a home in Clairemont in the 400k range with a “good price” comment. I can’t help but feel that many are becoming desensitized(?) to these prices.
Regardless of the price IMO Clairemont will always be a lower middle class neighborhood like it started out as.

Although I’m rarely here it’s still home and I always looked forward to returning.
I guess San Diego will become a big city version of Palm Springs, how depressing.

[sdrealtor]

sdnativeson,

Re: “the median income household does not generally purchase the median priced home” I assume you are speaking to current market times here?

I was speaking to all market times based on simple statistics. 50 to 60% of the households own their homes in this country. Homeowners skew heavily toward higher incomes. Those two dont line up. You can essential generalize that the upper 50% of households buy homes and the median income of homebuyers should be alot closer to the 75th %tile than the 50th.

[sdrealtor]

sdnativeson,

Re: “the median income household does not generally purchase the median priced home” I assume you are speaking to current market times here?

I was speaking to all market times based on simple statistics. 50 to 60% of the households own their homes in this country. Homeowners skew heavily toward higher incomes. Those two dont line up. You can essential generalize that the upper 50% of households buy homes and the median income of homebuyers should be alot closer to the 75th %tile than the 50th.

[sdrealtor]

sdnativeson,

Re: “the median income household does not generally purchase the median priced home” I assume you are speaking to current market times here?

I was speaking to all market times based on simple statistics. 50 to 60% of the households own their homes in this country. Homeowners skew heavily toward higher incomes. Those two dont line up. You can essential generalize that the upper 50% of households buy homes and the median income of homebuyers should be alot closer to the 75th %tile than the 50th.

[sdrealtor]

sdnativeson,

Re: “the median income household does not generally purchase the median priced home” I assume you are speaking to current market times here?

I was speaking to all market times based on simple statistics. 50 to 60% of the households own their homes in this country. Homeowners skew heavily toward higher incomes. Those two dont line up. You can essential generalize that the upper 50% of households buy homes and the median income of homebuyers should be alot closer to the 75th %tile than the 50th.

[sdrealtor]

sdnativeson,

Re: “the median income household does not generally purchase the median priced home” I assume you are speaking to current market times here?

I was speaking to all market times based on simple statistics. 50 to 60% of the households own their homes in this country. Homeowners skew heavily toward higher incomes. Those two dont line up. You can essential generalize that the upper 50% of households buy homes and the median income of homebuyers should be alot closer to the 75th %tile than the 50th.

[sdnativeson]

sdrealtor, your posts are usually both informative and lucid
in contrast to some others here. Your comments above are for the most part accurate, I am glad you qualified them with “rough example” though. Today, I can’t help but think the 75th percentile is optimistic.

“the median income household does not generally purchase the median priced home” I assume you are speaking to current market times here?

I think it’s wonderful that so many here must be pulling down 3,4,5,6 etc. times the median income in San Diego. A 55,000 to 60,000 income seems to be the most common for San Diego.

It’s often said here (or was) that the SD market will correct to the point that homes become affordable for the middle class here – market fundamentals. From my infrequent visits lately it seems to be that opinion is/has disappeared.

I can’t help but think of a post from a realtor who was showing a home in Clairemont in the 400k range with a “good price” comment. I can’t help but feel that many are becoming desensitized(?) to these prices.
Regardless of the price IMO Clairemont will always be a lower middle class neighborhood like it started out as.

Although I’m rarely here it’s still home and I always looked forward to returning.
I guess San Diego will become a big city version of Palm Springs, how depressing.

[sdnativeson]

sdrealtor, your posts are usually both informative and lucid
in contrast to some others here. Your comments above are for the most part accurate, I am glad you qualified them with “rough example” though. Today, I can’t help but think the 75th percentile is optimistic.

“the median income household does not generally purchase the median priced home” I assume you are speaking to current market times here?

I think it’s wonderful that so many here must be pulling down 3,4,5,6 etc. times the median income in San Diego. A 55,000 to 60,000 income seems to be the most common for San Diego.

It’s often said here (or was) that the SD market will correct to the point that homes become affordable for the middle class here – market fundamentals. From my infrequent visits lately it seems to be that opinion is/has disappeared.

I can’t help but think of a post from a realtor who was showing a home in Clairemont in the 400k range with a “good price” comment. I can’t help but feel that many are becoming desensitized(?) to these prices.
Regardless of the price IMO Clairemont will always be a lower middle class neighborhood like it started out as.

Although I’m rarely here it’s still home and I always looked forward to returning.
I guess San Diego will become a big city version of Palm Springs, how depressing.

[sdnativeson]

sdrealtor, your posts are usually both informative and lucid
in contrast to some others here. Your comments above are for the most part accurate, I am glad you qualified them with “rough example” though. Today, I can’t help but think the 75th percentile is optimistic.

“the median income household does not generally purchase the median priced home” I assume you are speaking to current market times here?

I think it’s wonderful that so many here must be pulling down 3,4,5,6 etc. times the median income in San Diego. A 55,000 to 60,000 income seems to be the most common for San Diego.

It’s often said here (or was) that the SD market will correct to the point that homes become affordable for the middle class here – market fundamentals. From my infrequent visits lately it seems to be that opinion is/has disappeared.

I can’t help but think of a post from a realtor who was showing a home in Clairemont in the 400k range with a “good price” comment. I can’t help but feel that many are becoming desensitized(?) to these prices.
Regardless of the price IMO Clairemont will always be a lower middle class neighborhood like it started out as.

Although I’m rarely here it’s still home and I always looked forward to returning.
I guess San Diego will become a big city version of Palm Springs, how depressing.

[sdnativeson]

sdrealtor, your posts are usually both informative and lucid
in contrast to some others here. Your comments above are for the most part accurate, I am glad you qualified them with “rough example” though. Today, I can’t help but think the 75th percentile is optimistic.

“the median income household does not generally purchase the median priced home” I assume you are speaking to current market times here?

I think it’s wonderful that so many here must be pulling down 3,4,5,6 etc. times the median income in San Diego. A 55,000 to 60,000 income seems to be the most common for San Diego.

It’s often said here (or was) that the SD market will correct to the point that homes become affordable for the middle class here – market fundamentals. From my infrequent visits lately it seems to be that opinion is/has disappeared.

I can’t help but think of a post from a realtor who was showing a home in Clairemont in the 400k range with a “good price” comment. I can’t help but feel that many are becoming desensitized(?) to these prices.
Regardless of the price IMO Clairemont will always be a lower middle class neighborhood like it started out as.

Although I’m rarely here it’s still home and I always looked forward to returning.
I guess San Diego will become a big city version of Palm Springs, how depressing.

[sdrealtor]

blackbox,
One problem with the median income logic is that the median income household does not generally purchase the median priced home. They never have except for during this bubble.

This is a rough example but you should et my point. Typically (of course there are exceptions), the bottom half of households (incomewise) do not buy homes. The upper half does. So effectively it is the 75th percentile that is buying the median priced home. Furthermore, in a high cost such as SoCal most of the buyers are generally skewed toward higher incomes more than in a more affordable area. The credit bubble put median and below income households in homes they never should have been in. With lending standards restored, median incomes household will once again only dream of owning median priced homes.

I hope you dont plan on being one of them.

[sdrealtor]

blackbox,
One problem with the median income logic is that the median income household does not generally purchase the median priced home. They never have except for during this bubble.

This is a rough example but you should et my point. Typically (of course there are exceptions), the bottom half of households (incomewise) do not buy homes. The upper half does. So effectively it is the 75th percentile that is buying the median priced home. Furthermore, in a high cost such as SoCal most of the buyers are generally skewed toward higher incomes more than in a more affordable area. The credit bubble put median and below income households in homes they never should have been in. With lending standards restored, median incomes household will once again only dream of owning median priced homes.

I hope you dont plan on being one of them.

[sdrealtor]

blackbox,
One problem with the median income logic is that the median income household does not generally purchase the median priced home. They never have except for during this bubble.

This is a rough example but you should et my point. Typically (of course there are exceptions), the bottom half of households (incomewise) do not buy homes. The upper half does. So effectively it is the 75th percentile that is buying the median priced home. Furthermore, in a high cost such as SoCal most of the buyers are generally skewed toward higher incomes more than in a more affordable area. The credit bubble put median and below income households in homes they never should have been in. With lending standards restored, median incomes household will once again only dream of owning median priced homes.

I hope you dont plan on being one of them.

[sdrealtor]

blackbox,
One problem with the median income logic is that the median income household does not generally purchase the median priced home. They never have except for during this bubble.

This is a rough example but you should et my point. Typically (of course there are exceptions), the bottom half of households (incomewise) do not buy homes. The upper half does. So effectively it is the 75th percentile that is buying the median priced home. Furthermore, in a high cost such as SoCal most of the buyers are generally skewed toward higher incomes more than in a more affordable area. The credit bubble put median and below income households in homes they never should have been in. With lending standards restored, median incomes household will once again only dream of owning median priced homes.

I hope you dont plan on being one of them.

[blackbox]

The market already has slipped 20 to 30%.
We’re waiting for 40-60%.
Geez, dude, where have you been?

no matter who gets involved, or what gets involved, this housing market will eventually settle at affortability.
Ofcourse its to no one interest that the economy craters, except for the gold/cheese and cracker horders.

Actually I would like a nice smooth transisiton to affortability where a median family income has a hope of buying a median priced home, which will happen one way or another. That will happen no matter the bailout or no bailout. It’s just a matter of how and in what timeframe.

I think most of the folks on the website have above median income, above average savings, great credit score, and plenty of common sense. We will buy when it makes economic sense, and not when some idiot thinks we should. The home buyer boycott will continue until the historical income/home price ratio occurs once again, and the market will for a very long time lack the idiots that bought just because they could. No matter who gets to keep their homes because they get thier mortgage rates frozen, this market will no longer be determined by the amount of foreclosures, but by the very few that will actually qualify for a mortgage in the newly tighten mortgage market, and we are not buying at your fantasy prices. The current fore sale housing inventory, and that the inventory still coming on line locks that fact in. The bailout came just a little to late to make any real impact of where home prices are heading (down), but with plenty of time avoid a economic meltdown. PERFECT!

[blackbox]

The market already has slipped 20 to 30%.
We’re waiting for 40-60%.
Geez, dude, where have you been?

no matter who gets involved, or what gets involved, this housing market will eventually settle at affortability.
Ofcourse its to no one interest that the economy craters, except for the gold/cheese and cracker horders.

Actually I would like a nice smooth transisiton to affortability where a median family income has a hope of buying a median priced home, which will happen one way or another. That will happen no matter the bailout or no bailout. It’s just a matter of how and in what timeframe.

I think most of the folks on the website have above median income, above average savings, great credit score, and plenty of common sense. We will buy when it makes economic sense, and not when some idiot thinks we should. The home buyer boycott will continue until the historical income/home price ratio occurs once again, and the market will for a very long time lack the idiots that bought just because they could. No matter who gets to keep their homes because they get thier mortgage rates frozen, this market will no longer be determined by the amount of foreclosures, but by the very few that will actually qualify for a mortgage in the newly tighten mortgage market, and we are not buying at your fantasy prices. The current fore sale housing inventory, and that the inventory still coming on line locks that fact in. The bailout came just a little to late to make any real impact of where home prices are heading (down), but with plenty of time avoid a economic meltdown. PERFECT!

[blackbox]

The market already has slipped 20 to 30%.
We’re waiting for 40-60%.
Geez, dude, where have you been?

no matter who gets involved, or what gets involved, this housing market will eventually settle at affortability.
Ofcourse its to no one interest that the economy craters, except for the gold/cheese and cracker horders.

Actually I would like a nice smooth transisiton to affortability where a median family income has a hope of buying a median priced home, which will happen one way or another. That will happen no matter the bailout or no bailout. It’s just a matter of how and in what timeframe.

I think most of the folks on the website have above median income, above average savings, great credit score, and plenty of common sense. We will buy when it makes economic sense, and not when some idiot thinks we should. The home buyer boycott will continue until the historical income/home price ratio occurs once again, and the market will for a very long time lack the idiots that bought just because they could. No matter who gets to keep their homes because they get thier mortgage rates frozen, this market will no longer be determined by the amount of foreclosures, but by the very few that will actually qualify for a mortgage in the newly tighten mortgage market, and we are not buying at your fantasy prices. The current fore sale housing inventory, and that the inventory still coming on line locks that fact in. The bailout came just a little to late to make any real impact of where home prices are heading (down), but with plenty of time avoid a economic meltdown. PERFECT!

[blackbox]

The market already has slipped 20 to 30%.
We’re waiting for 40-60%.
Geez, dude, where have you been?

no matter who gets involved, or what gets involved, this housing market will eventually settle at affortability.
Ofcourse its to no one interest that the economy craters, except for the gold/cheese and cracker horders.

Actually I would like a nice smooth transisiton to affortability where a median family income has a hope of buying a median priced home, which will happen one way or another. That will happen no matter the bailout or no bailout. It’s just a matter of how and in what timeframe.

I think most of the folks on the website have above median income, above average savings, great credit score, and plenty of common sense. We will buy when it makes economic sense, and not when some idiot thinks we should. The home buyer boycott will continue until the historical income/home price ratio occurs once again, and the market will for a very long time lack the idiots that bought just because they could. No matter who gets to keep their homes because they get thier mortgage rates frozen, this market will no longer be determined by the amount of foreclosures, but by the very few that will actually qualify for a mortgage in the newly tighten mortgage market, and we are not buying at your fantasy prices. The current fore sale housing inventory, and that the inventory still coming on line locks that fact in. The bailout came just a little to late to make any real impact of where home prices are heading (down), but with plenty of time avoid a economic meltdown. PERFECT!

[the dingo]

To Bugs comment:

“The market isn’t tanking because the subject is under discussion on the various blogs.”

Did my post suggest that? I don’t feel it did. My point was that there are a lot of people on this site who talk about a dramatic drop as almost a Christmas wish. Ruminations on the market won’t change the market. That is obvious. I just think people need to be aware of the consequences of that.

[no_such_reality]

I just think people need to be aware of the consequences of that.

People need to think about the consequences of a market frozen at 10X incomes where a housing payment requires a 65% DTI payment at 2X fair market rent.

Just think, the house quits paying them, they quit spending all that nice equity, BTW did you notice the new big sellers this year at $150 GPS systems instead of $3000 LCD HDTVs?

[Bugs]

Dingo/MulitplePersonality,

If you’ve spent any time whatsoever on this forum you’d recognize that about 30% of all the threads and posts don’t involve the RE markets at all, but are about alternative investment vehicles, macroeconomics and general economic trends. I think most of the Piggs are quite cognizant of the collateral damage that will occur as a result of the failures in the RE markets and are actively seeking ways to cope with that damage. I think it’s a huge mistake to confuse these lines of discussion as gloating over the misfortunes of others. Intelligent people learn from the mistakes of others.

It’s true that there is a certain amount of validation involved when the fools who extolled the virtues of being agressive and “bold” during the runup earn the inevitable fruits of that type of reckless and unjustified behavior. I compare it to the type of validation that occurs when we see the jerk who had been terrorizing other motorists on the freeway 5 minutes ago gets pulled over by the CHP.

If you want to scold someone for their misbehavior and bad attitude I suggest you look to the people who created the problem in the first place, not the people who warned everyone from the beginning of the risks they were taking.

We were right, they were wrong; deal with it. If you want to find a caring and nurturing support group for suckas I suggest you look elsewhere, like maybe the San Diego Real Estate Investment Club. There are lots of positive thinkers and RE boosters over there.

[Multiplepropertyowner]

Dear Bugs,
“30% of the threads don’t involve the real estate market.”

What are you talking about. There are currently 3500 topics posted to this discussion. The next closest is 450. This entire site is about the real estate market. I have not heard Rich on NPR talking about gold futures. This site is housing market driven. And you can’t tell me that there is a major bias to this site. All I am saying is that those who gloat on the tanking housing market need to think twice.
And to your point “we were right, they were wrong, deal with it.” The only people that were wrong were the group of folks who just happened to buy in late 04/05. I contributed to the problem multiple times and killed it. I was just smart enough to fold in Jan 04 on my most vulnerable properties.

[NotCranky]

I hope there is no e-balling going on around here. Whatever that is?

[GoUSC]

Eballing is when a poster has no valid point to make to the OP so instead he will choose to show he has “claimed” financial superiority and therefore doesn’t care about what the OP is saying. And no Rustico, it was not directed at you. I think it’s pretty apparent who it was.

[Multiplepropertyowner]

I thought I would send you all a picture of me

http://alesrarus.funkydung.com/images/troll.jpg

[NotCranky]

C’mon MPO no one is that handsome and rich too.. and to think I was about to ask you if you were having any fun!

Radelow
Thanks for the clarifiaction on e-balling.

[scaredyclassic]

if the free market is so great, why all this resistance to allowing it to operate. if dramatic rises to the upside are ok, why not dramatic decreases. why is one more shocking to the “system” than the other.

Drink Heavily.

[scaredyclassic]

if the free market is so great, why all this resistance to allowing it to operate. if dramatic rises to the upside are ok, why not dramatic decreases. why is one more shocking to the “system” than the other.

Drink Heavily.

[scaredyclassic]

if the free market is so great, why all this resistance to allowing it to operate. if dramatic rises to the upside are ok, why not dramatic decreases. why is one more shocking to the “system” than the other.

Drink Heavily.

[scaredyclassic]

if the free market is so great, why all this resistance to allowing it to operate. if dramatic rises to the upside are ok, why not dramatic decreases. why is one more shocking to the “system” than the other.

Drink Heavily.

[scaredyclassic]

if the free market is so great, why all this resistance to allowing it to operate. if dramatic rises to the upside are ok, why not dramatic decreases. why is one more shocking to the “system” than the other.

Drink Heavily.

[NotCranky]

C’mon MPO no one is that handsome and rich too.. and to think I was about to ask you if you were having any fun!

Radelow
Thanks for the clarifiaction on e-balling.

[NotCranky]

C’mon MPO no one is that handsome and rich too.. and to think I was about to ask you if you were having any fun!

Radelow
Thanks for the clarifiaction on e-balling.

[NotCranky]

C’mon MPO no one is that handsome and rich too.. and to think I was about to ask you if you were having any fun!

Radelow
Thanks for the clarifiaction on e-balling.

[NotCranky]

C’mon MPO no one is that handsome and rich too.. and to think I was about to ask you if you were having any fun!

Radelow
Thanks for the clarifiaction on e-balling.

[Multiplepropertyowner]

I thought I would send you all a picture of me

http://alesrarus.funkydung.com/images/troll.jpg

[Multiplepropertyowner]

I thought I would send you all a picture of me

http://alesrarus.funkydung.com/images/troll.jpg

[Multiplepropertyowner]

I thought I would send you all a picture of me

http://alesrarus.funkydung.com/images/troll.jpg

[Multiplepropertyowner]

I thought I would send you all a picture of me

http://alesrarus.funkydung.com/images/troll.jpg

[GoUSC]

Eballing is when a poster has no valid point to make to the OP so instead he will choose to show he has “claimed” financial superiority and therefore doesn’t care about what the OP is saying. And no Rustico, it was not directed at you. I think it’s pretty apparent who it was.

[GoUSC]

Eballing is when a poster has no valid point to make to the OP so instead he will choose to show he has “claimed” financial superiority and therefore doesn’t care about what the OP is saying. And no Rustico, it was not directed at you. I think it’s pretty apparent who it was.

[GoUSC]

Eballing is when a poster has no valid point to make to the OP so instead he will choose to show he has “claimed” financial superiority and therefore doesn’t care about what the OP is saying. And no Rustico, it was not directed at you. I think it’s pretty apparent who it was.

[GoUSC]

Eballing is when a poster has no valid point to make to the OP so instead he will choose to show he has “claimed” financial superiority and therefore doesn’t care about what the OP is saying. And no Rustico, it was not directed at you. I think it’s pretty apparent who it was.

[NotCranky]

I hope there is no e-balling going on around here. Whatever that is?

[NotCranky]

I hope there is no e-balling going on around here. Whatever that is?

[NotCranky]

I hope there is no e-balling going on around here. Whatever that is?

[NotCranky]

I hope there is no e-balling going on around here. Whatever that is?

[sdduuuude]

“And you can’t tell me that there is a major bias to this site. ”

I can tell you there is a major bias – a bias towards looking at data and using it to make good decisions.

When the market turns the other way, watch this space to see it coming well ahead of time.

“Most of the people on this site are up to their neck in debt. I heard about this site from a handful of people, and all of them are bitter cash poor renters. ”

In the name of “looking at data” I have to call you on this one. You have no clue of the financial make-up of the posters on this site. Is 1 handful a statistically significant sample size?

[sdduuuude]

“And you can’t tell me that there is a major bias to this site. ”

I can tell you there is a major bias – a bias towards looking at data and using it to make good decisions.

When the market turns the other way, watch this space to see it coming well ahead of time.

“Most of the people on this site are up to their neck in debt. I heard about this site from a handful of people, and all of them are bitter cash poor renters. ”

In the name of “looking at data” I have to call you on this one. You have no clue of the financial make-up of the posters on this site. Is 1 handful a statistically significant sample size?

[sdduuuude]

“And you can’t tell me that there is a major bias to this site. ”

I can tell you there is a major bias – a bias towards looking at data and using it to make good decisions.

When the market turns the other way, watch this space to see it coming well ahead of time.

“Most of the people on this site are up to their neck in debt. I heard about this site from a handful of people, and all of them are bitter cash poor renters. ”

In the name of “looking at data” I have to call you on this one. You have no clue of the financial make-up of the posters on this site. Is 1 handful a statistically significant sample size?

[sdduuuude]

“And you can’t tell me that there is a major bias to this site. ”

I can tell you there is a major bias – a bias towards looking at data and using it to make good decisions.

When the market turns the other way, watch this space to see it coming well ahead of time.

“Most of the people on this site are up to their neck in debt. I heard about this site from a handful of people, and all of them are bitter cash poor renters. ”

In the name of “looking at data” I have to call you on this one. You have no clue of the financial make-up of the posters on this site. Is 1 handful a statistically significant sample size?

[sdduuuude]

“And you can’t tell me that there is a major bias to this site. ”

I can tell you there is a major bias – a bias towards looking at data and using it to make good decisions.

When the market turns the other way, watch this space to see it coming well ahead of time.

“Most of the people on this site are up to their neck in debt. I heard about this site from a handful of people, and all of them are bitter cash poor renters. ”

In the name of “looking at data” I have to call you on this one. You have no clue of the financial make-up of the posters on this site. Is 1 handful a statistically significant sample size?

[Multiplepropertyowner]

Dear Bugs,
“30% of the threads don’t involve the real estate market.”

What are you talking about. There are currently 3500 topics posted to this discussion. The next closest is 450. This entire site is about the real estate market. I have not heard Rich on NPR talking about gold futures. This site is housing market driven. And you can’t tell me that there is a major bias to this site. All I am saying is that those who gloat on the tanking housing market need to think twice.
And to your point “we were right, they were wrong, deal with it.” The only people that were wrong were the group of folks who just happened to buy in late 04/05. I contributed to the problem multiple times and killed it. I was just smart enough to fold in Jan 04 on my most vulnerable properties.

[Multiplepropertyowner]

Dear Bugs,
“30% of the threads don’t involve the real estate market.”

What are you talking about. There are currently 3500 topics posted to this discussion. The next closest is 450. This entire site is about the real estate market. I have not heard Rich on NPR talking about gold futures. This site is housing market driven. And you can’t tell me that there is a major bias to this site. All I am saying is that those who gloat on the tanking housing market need to think twice.
And to your point “we were right, they were wrong, deal with it.” The only people that were wrong were the group of folks who just happened to buy in late 04/05. I contributed to the problem multiple times and killed it. I was just smart enough to fold in Jan 04 on my most vulnerable properties.

[Multiplepropertyowner]

Dear Bugs,
“30% of the threads don’t involve the real estate market.”

What are you talking about. There are currently 3500 topics posted to this discussion. The next closest is 450. This entire site is about the real estate market. I have not heard Rich on NPR talking about gold futures. This site is housing market driven. And you can’t tell me that there is a major bias to this site. All I am saying is that those who gloat on the tanking housing market need to think twice.
And to your point “we were right, they were wrong, deal with it.” The only people that were wrong were the group of folks who just happened to buy in late 04/05. I contributed to the problem multiple times and killed it. I was just smart enough to fold in Jan 04 on my most vulnerable properties.

[Multiplepropertyowner]

Dear Bugs,
“30% of the threads don’t involve the real estate market.”

What are you talking about. There are currently 3500 topics posted to this discussion. The next closest is 450. This entire site is about the real estate market. I have not heard Rich on NPR talking about gold futures. This site is housing market driven. And you can’t tell me that there is a major bias to this site. All I am saying is that those who gloat on the tanking housing market need to think twice.
And to your point “we were right, they were wrong, deal with it.” The only people that were wrong were the group of folks who just happened to buy in late 04/05. I contributed to the problem multiple times and killed it. I was just smart enough to fold in Jan 04 on my most vulnerable properties.

[Bugs]

Dingo/MulitplePersonality,

If you’ve spent any time whatsoever on this forum you’d recognize that about 30% of all the threads and posts don’t involve the RE markets at all, but are about alternative investment vehicles, macroeconomics and general economic trends. I think most of the Piggs are quite cognizant of the collateral damage that will occur as a result of the failures in the RE markets and are actively seeking ways to cope with that damage. I think it’s a huge mistake to confuse these lines of discussion as gloating over the misfortunes of others. Intelligent people learn from the mistakes of others.

It’s true that there is a certain amount of validation involved when the fools who extolled the virtues of being agressive and “bold” during the runup earn the inevitable fruits of that type of reckless and unjustified behavior. I compare it to the type of validation that occurs when we see the jerk who had been terrorizing other motorists on the freeway 5 minutes ago gets pulled over by the CHP.

If you want to scold someone for their misbehavior and bad attitude I suggest you look to the people who created the problem in the first place, not the people who warned everyone from the beginning of the risks they were taking.

We were right, they were wrong; deal with it. If you want to find a caring and nurturing support group for suckas I suggest you look elsewhere, like maybe the San Diego Real Estate Investment Club. There are lots of positive thinkers and RE boosters over there.

[Bugs]

Dingo/MulitplePersonality,

If you’ve spent any time whatsoever on this forum you’d recognize that about 30% of all the threads and posts don’t involve the RE markets at all, but are about alternative investment vehicles, macroeconomics and general economic trends. I think most of the Piggs are quite cognizant of the collateral damage that will occur as a result of the failures in the RE markets and are actively seeking ways to cope with that damage. I think it’s a huge mistake to confuse these lines of discussion as gloating over the misfortunes of others. Intelligent people learn from the mistakes of others.

It’s true that there is a certain amount of validation involved when the fools who extolled the virtues of being agressive and “bold” during the runup earn the inevitable fruits of that type of reckless and unjustified behavior. I compare it to the type of validation that occurs when we see the jerk who had been terrorizing other motorists on the freeway 5 minutes ago gets pulled over by the CHP.

If you want to scold someone for their misbehavior and bad attitude I suggest you look to the people who created the problem in the first place, not the people who warned everyone from the beginning of the risks they were taking.

We were right, they were wrong; deal with it. If you want to find a caring and nurturing support group for suckas I suggest you look elsewhere, like maybe the San Diego Real Estate Investment Club. There are lots of positive thinkers and RE boosters over there.

[Bugs]

Dingo/MulitplePersonality,

If you’ve spent any time whatsoever on this forum you’d recognize that about 30% of all the threads and posts don’t involve the RE markets at all, but are about alternative investment vehicles, macroeconomics and general economic trends. I think most of the Piggs are quite cognizant of the collateral damage that will occur as a result of the failures in the RE markets and are actively seeking ways to cope with that damage. I think it’s a huge mistake to confuse these lines of discussion as gloating over the misfortunes of others. Intelligent people learn from the mistakes of others.

It’s true that there is a certain amount of validation involved when the fools who extolled the virtues of being agressive and “bold” during the runup earn the inevitable fruits of that type of reckless and unjustified behavior. I compare it to the type of validation that occurs when we see the jerk who had been terrorizing other motorists on the freeway 5 minutes ago gets pulled over by the CHP.

If you want to scold someone for their misbehavior and bad attitude I suggest you look to the people who created the problem in the first place, not the people who warned everyone from the beginning of the risks they were taking.

We were right, they were wrong; deal with it. If you want to find a caring and nurturing support group for suckas I suggest you look elsewhere, like maybe the San Diego Real Estate Investment Club. There are lots of positive thinkers and RE boosters over there.

[Bugs]

Dingo/MulitplePersonality,

If you’ve spent any time whatsoever on this forum you’d recognize that about 30% of all the threads and posts don’t involve the RE markets at all, but are about alternative investment vehicles, macroeconomics and general economic trends. I think most of the Piggs are quite cognizant of the collateral damage that will occur as a result of the failures in the RE markets and are actively seeking ways to cope with that damage. I think it’s a huge mistake to confuse these lines of discussion as gloating over the misfortunes of others. Intelligent people learn from the mistakes of others.

It’s true that there is a certain amount of validation involved when the fools who extolled the virtues of being agressive and “bold” during the runup earn the inevitable fruits of that type of reckless and unjustified behavior. I compare it to the type of validation that occurs when we see the jerk who had been terrorizing other motorists on the freeway 5 minutes ago gets pulled over by the CHP.

If you want to scold someone for their misbehavior and bad attitude I suggest you look to the people who created the problem in the first place, not the people who warned everyone from the beginning of the risks they were taking.

We were right, they were wrong; deal with it. If you want to find a caring and nurturing support group for suckas I suggest you look elsewhere, like maybe the San Diego Real Estate Investment Club. There are lots of positive thinkers and RE boosters over there.

[no_such_reality]

I just think people need to be aware of the consequences of that.

People need to think about the consequences of a market frozen at 10X incomes where a housing payment requires a 65% DTI payment at 2X fair market rent.

Just think, the house quits paying them, they quit spending all that nice equity, BTW did you notice the new big sellers this year at $150 GPS systems instead of $3000 LCD HDTVs?

[no_such_reality]

I just think people need to be aware of the consequences of that.

People need to think about the consequences of a market frozen at 10X incomes where a housing payment requires a 65% DTI payment at 2X fair market rent.

Just think, the house quits paying them, they quit spending all that nice equity, BTW did you notice the new big sellers this year at $150 GPS systems instead of $3000 LCD HDTVs?

[no_such_reality]

I just think people need to be aware of the consequences of that.

People need to think about the consequences of a market frozen at 10X incomes where a housing payment requires a 65% DTI payment at 2X fair market rent.

Just think, the house quits paying them, they quit spending all that nice equity, BTW did you notice the new big sellers this year at $150 GPS systems instead of $3000 LCD HDTVs?

[no_such_reality]

I just think people need to be aware of the consequences of that.

People need to think about the consequences of a market frozen at 10X incomes where a housing payment requires a 65% DTI payment at 2X fair market rent.

Just think, the house quits paying them, they quit spending all that nice equity, BTW did you notice the new big sellers this year at $150 GPS systems instead of $3000 LCD HDTVs?

[the dingo]

To Bugs comment:

“The market isn’t tanking because the subject is under discussion on the various blogs.”

Did my post suggest that? I don’t feel it did. My point was that there are a lot of people on this site who talk about a dramatic drop as almost a Christmas wish. Ruminations on the market won’t change the market. That is obvious. I just think people need to be aware of the consequences of that.

[the dingo]

To Bugs comment:

“The market isn’t tanking because the subject is under discussion on the various blogs.”

Did my post suggest that? I don’t feel it did. My point was that there are a lot of people on this site who talk about a dramatic drop as almost a Christmas wish. Ruminations on the market won’t change the market. That is obvious. I just think people need to be aware of the consequences of that.

[the dingo]

To Bugs comment:

“The market isn’t tanking because the subject is under discussion on the various blogs.”

Did my post suggest that? I don’t feel it did. My point was that there are a lot of people on this site who talk about a dramatic drop as almost a Christmas wish. Ruminations on the market won’t change the market. That is obvious. I just think people need to be aware of the consequences of that.

[the dingo]

To Bugs comment:

“The market isn’t tanking because the subject is under discussion on the various blogs.”

Did my post suggest that? I don’t feel it did. My point was that there are a lot of people on this site who talk about a dramatic drop as almost a Christmas wish. Ruminations on the market won’t change the market. That is obvious. I just think people need to be aware of the consequences of that.

[Bugs]

There’s a pretty sizable percentage of owners on this forum – people who bought pre-bubble and have little exposure to equity losses. There are a number of other regulars who rent now because they were smart enough to sell while they still had equity.

Whether it’s gloating (your view) or scheming for the next opportunity (our view) is irrelevant. The market isn’t tanking because the subject is under discussion on the various blogs. The subject is under discussion on the various blogs because the market is tanking. Only a moron would think that this market is going down because of negative press.

“Wishing” for the market to tank or wishing for it to not tank is equally effective, which is to say, it’s a complete waste of time. The market will correct because it got distorted and it must correct. Action-reaction. No amount of singing Kumbaya or dancing around a fire and chanting magical incantations is going to change that.

You’d be better off spending your energy dealing with what is than wasting that energy complaining about the people who correctly forecasw this happening before it did.

[Bugs]

There’s a pretty sizable percentage of owners on this forum – people who bought pre-bubble and have little exposure to equity losses. There are a number of other regulars who rent now because they were smart enough to sell while they still had equity.

Whether it’s gloating (your view) or scheming for the next opportunity (our view) is irrelevant. The market isn’t tanking because the subject is under discussion on the various blogs. The subject is under discussion on the various blogs because the market is tanking. Only a moron would think that this market is going down because of negative press.

“Wishing” for the market to tank or wishing for it to not tank is equally effective, which is to say, it’s a complete waste of time. The market will correct because it got distorted and it must correct. Action-reaction. No amount of singing Kumbaya or dancing around a fire and chanting magical incantations is going to change that.

You’d be better off spending your energy dealing with what is than wasting that energy complaining about the people who correctly forecasw this happening before it did.

[Bugs]

There’s a pretty sizable percentage of owners on this forum – people who bought pre-bubble and have little exposure to equity losses. There are a number of other regulars who rent now because they were smart enough to sell while they still had equity.

Whether it’s gloating (your view) or scheming for the next opportunity (our view) is irrelevant. The market isn’t tanking because the subject is under discussion on the various blogs. The subject is under discussion on the various blogs because the market is tanking. Only a moron would think that this market is going down because of negative press.

“Wishing” for the market to tank or wishing for it to not tank is equally effective, which is to say, it’s a complete waste of time. The market will correct because it got distorted and it must correct. Action-reaction. No amount of singing Kumbaya or dancing around a fire and chanting magical incantations is going to change that.

You’d be better off spending your energy dealing with what is than wasting that energy complaining about the people who correctly forecasw this happening before it did.

[Bugs]

There’s a pretty sizable percentage of owners on this forum – people who bought pre-bubble and have little exposure to equity losses. There are a number of other regulars who rent now because they were smart enough to sell while they still had equity.

Whether it’s gloating (your view) or scheming for the next opportunity (our view) is irrelevant. The market isn’t tanking because the subject is under discussion on the various blogs. The subject is under discussion on the various blogs because the market is tanking. Only a moron would think that this market is going down because of negative press.

“Wishing” for the market to tank or wishing for it to not tank is equally effective, which is to say, it’s a complete waste of time. The market will correct because it got distorted and it must correct. Action-reaction. No amount of singing Kumbaya or dancing around a fire and chanting magical incantations is going to change that.

You’d be better off spending your energy dealing with what is than wasting that energy complaining about the people who correctly forecasw this happening before it did.

[NotCranky]

I was going to call you a troll but some thoughts came to mind about what I am coming to believe blog forums like this are.

This comes to mind.
http://www.offtolondon.com/hyde_speak.html

I don’t disagree with you completely. I appreciate the occasional visit from someone with a style that is worse than mine.
Cheers

[NotCranky]

I was going to call you a troll but some thoughts came to mind about what I am coming to believe blog forums like this are.

This comes to mind.
http://www.offtolondon.com/hyde_speak.html

I don’t disagree with you completely. I appreciate the occasional visit from someone with a style that is worse than mine.
Cheers

[NotCranky]

I was going to call you a troll but some thoughts came to mind about what I am coming to believe blog forums like this are.

This comes to mind.
http://www.offtolondon.com/hyde_speak.html

I don’t disagree with you completely. I appreciate the occasional visit from someone with a style that is worse than mine.
Cheers

[NotCranky]

I was going to call you a troll but some thoughts came to mind about what I am coming to believe blog forums like this are.

This comes to mind.
http://www.offtolondon.com/hyde_speak.html

I don’t disagree with you completely. I appreciate the occasional visit from someone with a style that is worse than mine.
Cheers

[condogrrl]

Multiplepropert… did you mean whining or winning? Your spelling is flawed, maybe along with your logic?

[GoUSC]

Poor posting form OP. I see some of your points and understand where you are coming from but we are protesting so called socialism for the rich where profits are privatized and losses are public”tized”.

To another one of the posters, is e-balling really necessary???

[NotCranky]

To another one of the posters, is e-balling really necessary???

Good possibility this is directed at me? In anycase what does it mean?

[NotCranky]

To another one of the posters, is e-balling really necessary???

Good possibility this is directed at me? In anycase what does it mean?

[NotCranky]

To another one of the posters, is e-balling really necessary???

Good possibility this is directed at me? In anycase what does it mean?

[NotCranky]

To another one of the posters, is e-balling really necessary???

Good possibility this is directed at me? In anycase what does it mean?

[NotCranky]

To another one of the posters, is e-balling really necessary???

Good possibility this is directed at me? In anycase what does it mean?

[GoUSC]

Poor posting form OP. I see some of your points and understand where you are coming from but we are protesting so called socialism for the rich where profits are privatized and losses are public”tized”.

To another one of the posters, is e-balling really necessary???

[GoUSC]

Poor posting form OP. I see some of your points and understand where you are coming from but we are protesting so called socialism for the rich where profits are privatized and losses are public”tized”.

To another one of the posters, is e-balling really necessary???

[GoUSC]

Poor posting form OP. I see some of your points and understand where you are coming from but we are protesting so called socialism for the rich where profits are privatized and losses are public”tized”.

To another one of the posters, is e-balling really necessary???

[GoUSC]

Poor posting form OP. I see some of your points and understand where you are coming from but we are protesting so called socialism for the rich where profits are privatized and losses are public”tized”.

To another one of the posters, is e-balling really necessary???

[the dingo]

Dear Condo Girl,

“Your spelling is flawed” posted by condogirrl was classic.Can you say typo. Of course I meant “whining”. Does a title of “Quit winning about bail outs” make any sense? Also, condogrll is spelled “Condo Girl”. Maybe that is the reason your handle is condogrll and not “single family girl.”

[the dingo]

Dear Condo Girl,

“Your spelling is flawed” posted by condogirrl was classic.Can you say typo. Of course I meant “whining”. Does a title of “Quit winning about bail outs” make any sense? Also, condogrll is spelled “Condo Girl”. Maybe that is the reason your handle is condogrll and not “single family girl.”

[the dingo]

Dear Condo Girl,

“Your spelling is flawed” posted by condogirrl was classic.Can you say typo. Of course I meant “whining”. Does a title of “Quit winning about bail outs” make any sense? Also, condogrll is spelled “Condo Girl”. Maybe that is the reason your handle is condogrll and not “single family girl.”

[the dingo]

Dear Condo Girl,

“Your spelling is flawed” posted by condogirrl was classic.Can you say typo. Of course I meant “whining”. Does a title of “Quit winning about bail outs” make any sense? Also, condogrll is spelled “Condo Girl”. Maybe that is the reason your handle is condogrll and not “single family girl.”

[the dingo]

Dear Condo Girl,

“Your spelling is flawed” posted by condogirrl was classic.Can you say typo. Of course I meant “whining”. Does a title of “Quit winning about bail outs” make any sense? Also, condogrll is spelled “Condo Girl”. Maybe that is the reason your handle is condogrll and not “single family girl.”

[condogrrl]

Multiplepropert… did you mean whining or winning? Your spelling is flawed, maybe along with your logic?

[condogrrl]

Multiplepropert… did you mean whining or winning? Your spelling is flawed, maybe along with your logic?

[condogrrl]

Multiplepropert… did you mean whining or winning? Your spelling is flawed, maybe along with your logic?

[condogrrl]

Multiplepropert… did you mean whining or winning? Your spelling is flawed, maybe along with your logic?

[no_such_reality]

But what if bread lines would do the country some good?

[no_such_reality]

But what if bread lines would do the country some good?

[no_such_reality]

But what if bread lines would do the country some good?

[no_such_reality]

But what if bread lines would do the country some good?

[no_such_reality]

But what if bread lines would do the country some good?

[asragov]

Here is Mish’s take, “Temporary mortgage freeze is doomed”:

http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2007/11/temporary-mortgage-freeze-is-doomed.html

[asragov]

Here is Mish’s take, “Temporary mortgage freeze is doomed”:

http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2007/11/temporary-mortgage-freeze-is-doomed.html

[asragov]

Here is Mish’s take, “Temporary mortgage freeze is doomed”:

http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2007/11/temporary-mortgage-freeze-is-doomed.html

[asragov]

Here is Mish’s take, “Temporary mortgage freeze is doomed”:

http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2007/11/temporary-mortgage-freeze-is-doomed.html

[asragov]

Here is Mish’s take, “Temporary mortgage freeze is doomed”:

http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2007/11/temporary-mortgage-freeze-is-doomed.html

[hipmatt]

Multiplepropert(BTW.. what a humble login??)… said

“Watching others suffer makes you feel a bit better about your situation as a renter.”

I can assure you that those of us that rent, are suffering less than those who own, BTW, there are those that own on this board.

Many of us here(the poor renters) have our equity making steady but decent gains in CDs, gold, and other investments… Tell me how the last 18 months has done to all the equity you have in your multiple properties? Ouch.. if you do have any equity left, that is still a lot of money that can’t compound any interest..

Then you said ..

“Most (not all) of you seem to think that as soon as the market slips 20-30% you can all cash in on that dream house.”

FYI, in many areas the market has already given up 20-30% from the top…. and we still aren’t buying.. instead we will wait for the much more likely 50% off. This is just the beginning, recession or not, bull market or not, housing has a long way to fall before it can go back up.

The problem that we have with a bail out is that it is unethical, it rewards irresponsible behavior from all sides of the mortgage process, it will create a new bureaucracy, it will cause massive inflation(part of the bailout is slashing rates again), and it punishes those who were responsible with their money(saved/waited for the bubble to end/refused an interest only 100% stated income loan).

In any case, my $.02 is that the bail out won’t be much of a factor.(It may have a stronger effect in some areas, but not socal)

There is not enough money! .. not even close.. not even remotely close.
The process that decides who and why anyone gets a bail out will take so much time and become such a mess that it will get a bad rap.
The (supposed) bailout can only help keep a select few current owners in their homes by keeping their teaser rate for longer, or refinancing them into a more affordable loan. The thing is that they can’t afford the teaser part of the loan anymore anyways, and now they see that they have no equity in their home. This is the biggest factor, the negative equity. These people will still walk away from their homes, even if the payment is slightly doable because of the psychological implications of paying for something that is worth less than they owe.
If banks are required to keep borrowers in their teaser rates, they will fold. They are already on the verge of bankruptcy.

[VoZangre]

wHAT IT IS… TO ME, THAT IS.

” No matter who gets involved, or what gets involved, this housing market will eventually settle at affordability. ”

= my one and only concern/reason for being a Pigg (sic)

Do I give a rat’s ass if some folks who do no REAL work ( investors who already have $$$$ and seem to think passive income is their birthright) get fleeced for being greedy enough to buy into this CDO ponzi scheme mess?

( Channeling hank Hill’s knee-less father…)

Helllllllllll no!

( working hard on cleaning up a 4 decade old potty mouth habit)

grr grr

[VoZangre]

Maybe he was thinking of

the British…

whinging?

[VoZangre]

Maybe he was thinking of

the British…

whinging?

[VoZangre]

Maybe he was thinking of

the British…

whinging?

[VoZangre]

Maybe he was thinking of

the British…

whinging?

[VoZangre]

Maybe he was thinking of

the British…

whinging?

[VoZangre]

wHAT IT IS… TO ME, THAT IS.

” No matter who gets involved, or what gets involved, this housing market will eventually settle at affordability. ”

= my one and only concern/reason for being a Pigg (sic)

Do I give a rat’s ass if some folks who do no REAL work ( investors who already have $$$$ and seem to think passive income is their birthright) get fleeced for being greedy enough to buy into this CDO ponzi scheme mess?

( Channeling hank Hill’s knee-less father…)

Helllllllllll no!

( working hard on cleaning up a 4 decade old potty mouth habit)

grr grr

[VoZangre]

wHAT IT IS… TO ME, THAT IS.

” No matter who gets involved, or what gets involved, this housing market will eventually settle at affordability. ”

= my one and only concern/reason for being a Pigg (sic)

Do I give a rat’s ass if some folks who do no REAL work ( investors who already have $$$$ and seem to think passive income is their birthright) get fleeced for being greedy enough to buy into this CDO ponzi scheme mess?

( Channeling hank Hill’s knee-less father…)

Helllllllllll no!

( working hard on cleaning up a 4 decade old potty mouth habit)

grr grr

[VoZangre]

wHAT IT IS… TO ME, THAT IS.

” No matter who gets involved, or what gets involved, this housing market will eventually settle at affordability. ”

= my one and only concern/reason for being a Pigg (sic)

Do I give a rat’s ass if some folks who do no REAL work ( investors who already have $$$$ and seem to think passive income is their birthright) get fleeced for being greedy enough to buy into this CDO ponzi scheme mess?

( Channeling hank Hill’s knee-less father…)

Helllllllllll no!

( working hard on cleaning up a 4 decade old potty mouth habit)

grr grr

[VoZangre]

wHAT IT IS… TO ME, THAT IS.

” No matter who gets involved, or what gets involved, this housing market will eventually settle at affordability. ”

= my one and only concern/reason for being a Pigg (sic)

Do I give a rat’s ass if some folks who do no REAL work ( investors who already have $$$$ and seem to think passive income is their birthright) get fleeced for being greedy enough to buy into this CDO ponzi scheme mess?

( Channeling hank Hill’s knee-less father…)

Helllllllllll no!

( working hard on cleaning up a 4 decade old potty mouth habit)

grr grr

[rankandfile]

To question the validity of this blog is to question the thought process of our country in general. Yes, there are a bunch of members that appear to be bearish on the real estate market. This doesn’t make it wrong per se, but rather lends further credence to the fact that “birds of a feather flock together”. With that said there are many members of this blog, though they are likely a minority, who are more bullish on real estate.

I will not re-hash the sound statements made by Bugs, Hippmatt, Rustico, and NSR. I will only continue to state the obvious. The members of this blog are a cross-section of our country. Many of them, including myself, do not wish ill-will on anyone who is suffering from the current real estate meltdown. All they are seeking, and rightfully so in my opinion, is justification for deciding not to participate in the previous real estate bubble. Others may come across as crass by exclaiming that they can’t wait to see property owners burn at the stake. I think a great percentage of this fervor can be attributed to the anonymity of the internet.

We don’t want to see people suffer, we don’t want to have a government bailout. All we want is for real estate to come back to a level that is more in line with other leading economic indicators, such as income or wages.

rankandfile

[4plexowner]

“But what if bread lines would do the country some good?”

Amen! It’s called ‘tough love’ for a reason!

[4plexowner]

“But what if bread lines would do the country some good?”

Amen! It’s called ‘tough love’ for a reason!

[4plexowner]

“But what if bread lines would do the country some good?”

Amen! It’s called ‘tough love’ for a reason!

[4plexowner]

“But what if bread lines would do the country some good?”

Amen! It’s called ‘tough love’ for a reason!

[4plexowner]

“But what if bread lines would do the country some good?”

Amen! It’s called ‘tough love’ for a reason!

[rankandfile]

To question the validity of this blog is to question the thought process of our country in general. Yes, there are a bunch of members that appear to be bearish on the real estate market. This doesn’t make it wrong per se, but rather lends further credence to the fact that “birds of a feather flock together”. With that said there are many members of this blog, though they are likely a minority, who are more bullish on real estate.

I will not re-hash the sound statements made by Bugs, Hippmatt, Rustico, and NSR. I will only continue to state the obvious. The members of this blog are a cross-section of our country. Many of them, including myself, do not wish ill-will on anyone who is suffering from the current real estate meltdown. All they are seeking, and rightfully so in my opinion, is justification for deciding not to participate in the previous real estate bubble. Others may come across as crass by exclaiming that they can’t wait to see property owners burn at the stake. I think a great percentage of this fervor can be attributed to the anonymity of the internet.

We don’t want to see people suffer, we don’t want to have a government bailout. All we want is for real estate to come back to a level that is more in line with other leading economic indicators, such as income or wages.

rankandfile

[rankandfile]

To question the validity of this blog is to question the thought process of our country in general. Yes, there are a bunch of members that appear to be bearish on the real estate market. This doesn’t make it wrong per se, but rather lends further credence to the fact that “birds of a feather flock together”. With that said there are many members of this blog, though they are likely a minority, who are more bullish on real estate.

I will not re-hash the sound statements made by Bugs, Hippmatt, Rustico, and NSR. I will only continue to state the obvious. The members of this blog are a cross-section of our country. Many of them, including myself, do not wish ill-will on anyone who is suffering from the current real estate meltdown. All they are seeking, and rightfully so in my opinion, is justification for deciding not to participate in the previous real estate bubble. Others may come across as crass by exclaiming that they can’t wait to see property owners burn at the stake. I think a great percentage of this fervor can be attributed to the anonymity of the internet.

We don’t want to see people suffer, we don’t want to have a government bailout. All we want is for real estate to come back to a level that is more in line with other leading economic indicators, such as income or wages.

rankandfile

[rankandfile]

To question the validity of this blog is to question the thought process of our country in general. Yes, there are a bunch of members that appear to be bearish on the real estate market. This doesn’t make it wrong per se, but rather lends further credence to the fact that “birds of a feather flock together”. With that said there are many members of this blog, though they are likely a minority, who are more bullish on real estate.

I will not re-hash the sound statements made by Bugs, Hippmatt, Rustico, and NSR. I will only continue to state the obvious. The members of this blog are a cross-section of our country. Many of them, including myself, do not wish ill-will on anyone who is suffering from the current real estate meltdown. All they are seeking, and rightfully so in my opinion, is justification for deciding not to participate in the previous real estate bubble. Others may come across as crass by exclaiming that they can’t wait to see property owners burn at the stake. I think a great percentage of this fervor can be attributed to the anonymity of the internet.

We don’t want to see people suffer, we don’t want to have a government bailout. All we want is for real estate to come back to a level that is more in line with other leading economic indicators, such as income or wages.

rankandfile

[rankandfile]

To question the validity of this blog is to question the thought process of our country in general. Yes, there are a bunch of members that appear to be bearish on the real estate market. This doesn’t make it wrong per se, but rather lends further credence to the fact that “birds of a feather flock together”. With that said there are many members of this blog, though they are likely a minority, who are more bullish on real estate.

I will not re-hash the sound statements made by Bugs, Hippmatt, Rustico, and NSR. I will only continue to state the obvious. The members of this blog are a cross-section of our country. Many of them, including myself, do not wish ill-will on anyone who is suffering from the current real estate meltdown. All they are seeking, and rightfully so in my opinion, is justification for deciding not to participate in the previous real estate bubble. Others may come across as crass by exclaiming that they can’t wait to see property owners burn at the stake. I think a great percentage of this fervor can be attributed to the anonymity of the internet.

We don’t want to see people suffer, we don’t want to have a government bailout. All we want is for real estate to come back to a level that is more in line with other leading economic indicators, such as income or wages.

rankandfile

[hipmatt]

Multiplepropert(BTW.. what a humble login??)… said

“Watching others suffer makes you feel a bit better about your situation as a renter.”

I can assure you that those of us that rent, are suffering less than those who own, BTW, there are those that own on this board.

Many of us here(the poor renters) have our equity making steady but decent gains in CDs, gold, and other investments… Tell me how the last 18 months has done to all the equity you have in your multiple properties? Ouch.. if you do have any equity left, that is still a lot of money that can’t compound any interest..

Then you said ..

“Most (not all) of you seem to think that as soon as the market slips 20-30% you can all cash in on that dream house.”

FYI, in many areas the market has already given up 20-30% from the top…. and we still aren’t buying.. instead we will wait for the much more likely 50% off. This is just the beginning, recession or not, bull market or not, housing has a long way to fall before it can go back up.

The problem that we have with a bail out is that it is unethical, it rewards irresponsible behavior from all sides of the mortgage process, it will create a new bureaucracy, it will cause massive inflation(part of the bailout is slashing rates again), and it punishes those who were responsible with their money(saved/waited for the bubble to end/refused an interest only 100% stated income loan).

In any case, my $.02 is that the bail out won’t be much of a factor.(It may have a stronger effect in some areas, but not socal)

There is not enough money! .. not even close.. not even remotely close.
The process that decides who and why anyone gets a bail out will take so much time and become such a mess that it will get a bad rap.
The (supposed) bailout can only help keep a select few current owners in their homes by keeping their teaser rate for longer, or refinancing them into a more affordable loan. The thing is that they can’t afford the teaser part of the loan anymore anyways, and now they see that they have no equity in their home. This is the biggest factor, the negative equity. These people will still walk away from their homes, even if the payment is slightly doable because of the psychological implications of paying for something that is worth less than they owe.
If banks are required to keep borrowers in their teaser rates, they will fold. They are already on the verge of bankruptcy.

[hipmatt]

Multiplepropert(BTW.. what a humble login??)… said

“Watching others suffer makes you feel a bit better about your situation as a renter.”

I can assure you that those of us that rent, are suffering less than those who own, BTW, there are those that own on this board.

Many of us here(the poor renters) have our equity making steady but decent gains in CDs, gold, and other investments… Tell me how the last 18 months has done to all the equity you have in your multiple properties? Ouch.. if you do have any equity left, that is still a lot of money that can’t compound any interest..

Then you said ..

“Most (not all) of you seem to think that as soon as the market slips 20-30% you can all cash in on that dream house.”

FYI, in many areas the market has already given up 20-30% from the top…. and we still aren’t buying.. instead we will wait for the much more likely 50% off. This is just the beginning, recession or not, bull market or not, housing has a long way to fall before it can go back up.

The problem that we have with a bail out is that it is unethical, it rewards irresponsible behavior from all sides of the mortgage process, it will create a new bureaucracy, it will cause massive inflation(part of the bailout is slashing rates again), and it punishes those who were responsible with their money(saved/waited for the bubble to end/refused an interest only 100% stated income loan).

In any case, my $.02 is that the bail out won’t be much of a factor.(It may have a stronger effect in some areas, but not socal)

There is not enough money! .. not even close.. not even remotely close.
The process that decides who and why anyone gets a bail out will take so much time and become such a mess that it will get a bad rap.
The (supposed) bailout can only help keep a select few current owners in their homes by keeping their teaser rate for longer, or refinancing them into a more affordable loan. The thing is that they can’t afford the teaser part of the loan anymore anyways, and now they see that they have no equity in their home. This is the biggest factor, the negative equity. These people will still walk away from their homes, even if the payment is slightly doable because of the psychological implications of paying for something that is worth less than they owe.
If banks are required to keep borrowers in their teaser rates, they will fold. They are already on the verge of bankruptcy.

[hipmatt]

Multiplepropert(BTW.. what a humble login??)… said

“Watching others suffer makes you feel a bit better about your situation as a renter.”

I can assure you that those of us that rent, are suffering less than those who own, BTW, there are those that own on this board.

Many of us here(the poor renters) have our equity making steady but decent gains in CDs, gold, and other investments… Tell me how the last 18 months has done to all the equity you have in your multiple properties? Ouch.. if you do have any equity left, that is still a lot of money that can’t compound any interest..

Then you said ..

“Most (not all) of you seem to think that as soon as the market slips 20-30% you can all cash in on that dream house.”

FYI, in many areas the market has already given up 20-30% from the top…. and we still aren’t buying.. instead we will wait for the much more likely 50% off. This is just the beginning, recession or not, bull market or not, housing has a long way to fall before it can go back up.

The problem that we have with a bail out is that it is unethical, it rewards irresponsible behavior from all sides of the mortgage process, it will create a new bureaucracy, it will cause massive inflation(part of the bailout is slashing rates again), and it punishes those who were responsible with their money(saved/waited for the bubble to end/refused an interest only 100% stated income loan).

In any case, my $.02 is that the bail out won’t be much of a factor.(It may have a stronger effect in some areas, but not socal)

There is not enough money! .. not even close.. not even remotely close.
The process that decides who and why anyone gets a bail out will take so much time and become such a mess that it will get a bad rap.
The (supposed) bailout can only help keep a select few current owners in their homes by keeping their teaser rate for longer, or refinancing them into a more affordable loan. The thing is that they can’t afford the teaser part of the loan anymore anyways, and now they see that they have no equity in their home. This is the biggest factor, the negative equity. These people will still walk away from their homes, even if the payment is slightly doable because of the psychological implications of paying for something that is worth less than they owe.
If banks are required to keep borrowers in their teaser rates, they will fold. They are already on the verge of bankruptcy.

[hipmatt]

Multiplepropert(BTW.. what a humble login??)… said

“Watching others suffer makes you feel a bit better about your situation as a renter.”

I can assure you that those of us that rent, are suffering less than those who own, BTW, there are those that own on this board.

Many of us here(the poor renters) have our equity making steady but decent gains in CDs, gold, and other investments… Tell me how the last 18 months has done to all the equity you have in your multiple properties? Ouch.. if you do have any equity left, that is still a lot of money that can’t compound any interest..

Then you said ..

“Most (not all) of you seem to think that as soon as the market slips 20-30% you can all cash in on that dream house.”

FYI, in many areas the market has already given up 20-30% from the top…. and we still aren’t buying.. instead we will wait for the much more likely 50% off. This is just the beginning, recession or not, bull market or not, housing has a long way to fall before it can go back up.

The problem that we have with a bail out is that it is unethical, it rewards irresponsible behavior from all sides of the mortgage process, it will create a new bureaucracy, it will cause massive inflation(part of the bailout is slashing rates again), and it punishes those who were responsible with their money(saved/waited for the bubble to end/refused an interest only 100% stated income loan).

In any case, my $.02 is that the bail out won’t be much of a factor.(It may have a stronger effect in some areas, but not socal)

There is not enough money! .. not even close.. not even remotely close.
The process that decides who and why anyone gets a bail out will take so much time and become such a mess that it will get a bad rap.
The (supposed) bailout can only help keep a select few current owners in their homes by keeping their teaser rate for longer, or refinancing them into a more affordable loan. The thing is that they can’t afford the teaser part of the loan anymore anyways, and now they see that they have no equity in their home. This is the biggest factor, the negative equity. These people will still walk away from their homes, even if the payment is slightly doable because of the psychological implications of paying for something that is worth less than they owe.
If banks are required to keep borrowers in their teaser rates, they will fold. They are already on the verge of bankruptcy.

[GunDoctor]

“I know most of you are bitter because you don’t own homes. Thus, the tenor of this forum, which is generally caustic. Watching others suffer makes you feel a bit better about your situation as a renter.”

Lets be honest here. I don’t know anyone right now who is bitter because they don’t own a home. I do know some very bitter people right now though..lets count them up.

bitter home buyers who waaaaay overpaid and are done like dinner.

bitter RE agents
bitter loan Companies
bitter investors.
bitter CEO’s…who are no longer CEO.
bitter builders
bitter bankrupt banks

on and on and on…..

Yep the more I look around the more I would say that there are NO bitter renters. In fact the situation has reversed with the Bitter Buyers wishing they were renters instead.

As far as how I care about being a renter and watching buyers suffer. I feel the same as when I watched them rake in all that money. I was happy for them…Really. I am just as happy to watch those phoney prices and gains drift back down to reality. Easy come, easy go. Just like Vegas!

I was never bitter renting…I was bitter watching my fellow countrymen, and leadership get greedy and let this thing get so far out of control that we now ALL must suffer. The brakes should have been put on long ago. That sir make me bitter

[Multiplepropertyowner]

I thought Multiple Property Owner was a great handle. My other choice was “slumlord”. Oh, and I meant “Pwhinning” with a silent “P”.
In regard to the fact that most of the savvy people on this site are moving their money from Cd’s to foreign investments our whatever. Dude, wake up. Most of the people on this site are up to their neck in debt. I heard about this site from a handful of people, and all of them are bitter cash poor renters. Granted, there are some great posters in Piggs, and Rich is the man, but most people here would not be able to buy a home unless they move to Arkansas. You know it is true.

[ucodegen]

@Multipleproperty

Boy are you out to lunch on your info. Ok.. starting from some where in the middle…

I know most of you are bitter because you don’t own homes. Thus, the tenor of this forum, which is generally caustic. Watching others suffer makes you feel a bit better about your situation as a renter

Dude, wake up. Most of the people on this site are up to their neck in debt. I heard about this site from a handful of people, and all of them are bitter cash poor renters.

Silly boy. There are several long term posters that have been here since the wild real-estate days, who have the ability to buy but did not.. because the rent-buy weighting did not work out and we do not want to risk financial suicide and expect Uncle Sam to bail use out of our stupidity. The cash poor renters were continually thinking of how to get in on the RE Ponzi Scheme, the Piggs were yelling at the top of our voice “Stop the madness”. Some of the newer posters/viewers may be in the category of ‘bitter renter’, but most of us old timers either own or are quite happy renting right now. Myself, I am saving(and investing) at a rate greater than 30% of gross income, or greater than 50% of net income (net of taxes, 401K contribs(maxed)).

Here is why I am upset on the bailouts:
1) It rewards bad behavior in Mortgage lenders(honesty in lending), CDO structures(misrepresenting risks in securitized loans), RE agents(acting as investment advisors, inserting themselves into the middle of the transaction instead of being a broker.. stuff that would get you jailed by the SEC and your series 7 yanked for life), home owners(the home ATM) and new home buyers(Not making sure they can afford what they purchase) while at the same time punishing those that act with prudence and live under their means. If the players in the RE Ponzi Scheme don’t have a penalty, the next time will be worse (more RE Ponzi Scheme players).
2) It really does not bail out the homebuyers, but it does bail out the lenders. Purchase money loans are non-recourse in California. This means that the buyers can walk away from the 1st mortgage on the overpriced asset if they have to, and the bank has to eat the deficiency. Once homeowners avail themselves of the “bail out”, they are no longer dealing with a purchase money loan. The loan has now become recourse, which means the lender can pursue the homeowner should the loan eventually result in foreclosure. This last part is what makes it bad for homeowners. I would recommend that any homeowner having financial problems on a purchase money loan, not use the bail-out. They will be able to walk away from the property if they have to.
3) The bailout supports the present overpriced housing (for the time being), which causes problems for any new buyers trying to enter the market. Eventually things will correct.. the question becomes who is the last fool buying.

The underlying issue is that all things have to return to a norm. The overpriced assets can get devalued, or the all other assets can get inflated up to the price of the overpriced asset.
1) In the example of the overpriced assets getting devalued, the RE speculators and unwise purchases are the ones getting hit, but it will largely be isolated to them. 100% of the current housing did not change hands this time. Less than 20% of total housing did.
2) In the case of everything else getting inflated, this is the ‘bailout’ case. Your wages buy less, gas prices are higher, price of money for business development is higher, Fed can’t get their deficit spending funded through treasuries so they print money.. spurring even greater inflation.. etc

All that changes in these outcomes is: who gets stuck with the bill. The cost of the correction can not be avoided, all that can be done is adjust who takes the cost. I don’t think a 1930’s depression can occur. The 30’s depression was caused by speculating on businesses with no income(not like a house whose ‘income’ is the amount of rent it shields you from) with margin overhang above 100%(similar to 100%morgages). The key difference is the speculation on a tangible asset verses a paper asset. The former provides the floor.

[LA_Renter]

I just saw this post on the LA times blog, Is this true??

“In regards to the bailout that Cramer is crying for, what do you think about this aspect of the mortgage bailout?

Hope Now Alliance = banks hoping for more money NOW?

Please let me know if I’m on the right track here. As I understand it, currently in California many borrowers who have not refinanced have NON-RECOURSE LOANS.

The FB’s with these loans have the right to walk away and mail the keys to the bank.

———————
Definition of non-recourse loan: A secured loan (debt) that is secured by a pledge of collateral, typically real property, but for which the borrower is not personally liable. If the borrower defaults, the lender/issuer can seize the collateral, but the lender’s recovery is limited to the collateral. If the property is insufficient to cover the outstanding loan balance (for example, if real estate prices have dropped), the lender is simply out the difference.
———————

HOWEVER, IF the FB refinances, they LOSE their NON-RECOURSE status.

I would assume that if a FB takes the bail-out bait and calls the lender to get their interest rate increase frozen, then this revision in the contract would switch their mortgage from NON-RECOURSE to RECOURSE.

After their interest rate is frozen the FB cannot walk away from their home without losing everything: money in savings, 401k, cars… and having their wages garnished. Seems similar to the new BK laws. It’s the new indentured servitude (but didn’t the servant get their freedom after they paid for 7 years, rather than 30 years or more paying on an inflated mortgage?).

I am wondering if one reason that these bail-out plans have been announced with such vague language is to test the waters to see if the public catches on about the downside for the FB’s.

FB’S: Don’t take the bait! Preserve your right to walk away from an upside-down mortage. This right is the most valuable thing you have in this uncertain time. Be sceptical! When was the last time a bank just did you a favor without something in it for them??!!”

[Anonymous]

All i can say to this is , the potential owners or any one who wants to make money thru. there home/RE, just hope that the “poor renters” ( like me :)) better have some down payment money and some interest to buy a place so, we dont go back to 1930 economic conditions.

Couple of scenarios can occur from now:

1) Housing goes to more drain ( -50%).
2) Bailout with time line of extending the loans to 2 yrs.
3) Housing is going up ( + .2% up).

In the all the above scenarious, i feel that we should all hope that potential renters/home buyers better have some good money to pay down & have some interest left to buy a place. If not, prices are going to go further drain. In case #3 also, we need buyers to clear up the inventory available till now.

So why is the govt. and financial institutions coming with this bailout saying “keeping the houses for people”.

Two simple reasons:

1) Govt. There is elections coming. No one wants to face with lots of people messed up.At the same time, angrying rest 70% folks with their bailout plan. so they are trying to walk a fine line.
2) Financial inst. They have the cash reserve crunch going on currently. They need cash desperately. Lowering interest rates by fed is one help at the expense of inflation. Other option is let the home buyers give some money every month with a potential of default in future. So this way finacial inst. is ready for the crash.Its more of an orderly decline in prices with financial inst. being not bank rupt.

Anyways, since this was my first post. Below is my background. Waiting from 2002(thats when i had some decent down payment in hand) to buy a place when it is a little affordable as well as makes financial sense.
Got around 250K downpayment. If govt. bailout fails, then i am planning around 2009. If govt. bailout helps couple of people then I am planning around 2011-2012. My back up plan is if so. cal is immune to all this, then go to some other beautiful parts of the country and have a debt free home for life.

Thanks.
Patient Money.

[Anonymous]

All i can say to this is , the potential owners or any one who wants to make money thru. there home/RE, just hope that the “poor renters” ( like me :)) better have some down payment money and some interest to buy a place so, we dont go back to 1930 economic conditions.

Couple of scenarios can occur from now:

1) Housing goes to more drain ( -50%).
2) Bailout with time line of extending the loans to 2 yrs.
3) Housing is going up ( + .2% up).

In the all the above scenarious, i feel that we should all hope that potential renters/home buyers better have some good money to pay down & have some interest left to buy a place. If not, prices are going to go further drain. In case #3 also, we need buyers to clear up the inventory available till now.

So why is the govt. and financial institutions coming with this bailout saying “keeping the houses for people”.

Two simple reasons:

1) Govt. There is elections coming. No one wants to face with lots of people messed up.At the same time, angrying rest 70% folks with their bailout plan. so they are trying to walk a fine line.
2) Financial inst. They have the cash reserve crunch going on currently. They need cash desperately. Lowering interest rates by fed is one help at the expense of inflation. Other option is let the home buyers give some money every month with a potential of default in future. So this way finacial inst. is ready for the crash.Its more of an orderly decline in prices with financial inst. being not bank rupt.

Anyways, since this was my first post. Below is my background. Waiting from 2002(thats when i had some decent down payment in hand) to buy a place when it is a little affordable as well as makes financial sense.
Got around 250K downpayment. If govt. bailout fails, then i am planning around 2009. If govt. bailout helps couple of people then I am planning around 2011-2012. My back up plan is if so. cal is immune to all this, then go to some other beautiful parts of the country and have a debt free home for life.

Thanks.
Patient Money.

[Anonymous]

All i can say to this is , the potential owners or any one who wants to make money thru. there home/RE, just hope that the “poor renters” ( like me :)) better have some down payment money and some interest to buy a place so, we dont go back to 1930 economic conditions.

Couple of scenarios can occur from now:

1) Housing goes to more drain ( -50%).
2) Bailout with time line of extending the loans to 2 yrs.
3) Housing is going up ( + .2% up).

In the all the above scenarious, i feel that we should all hope that potential renters/home buyers better have some good money to pay down & have some interest left to buy a place. If not, prices are going to go further drain. In case #3 also, we need buyers to clear up the inventory available till now.

So why is the govt. and financial institutions coming with this bailout saying “keeping the houses for people”.

Two simple reasons:

1) Govt. There is elections coming. No one wants to face with lots of people messed up.At the same time, angrying rest 70% folks with their bailout plan. so they are trying to walk a fine line.
2) Financial inst. They have the cash reserve crunch going on currently. They need cash desperately. Lowering interest rates by fed is one help at the expense of inflation. Other option is let the home buyers give some money every month with a potential of default in future. So this way finacial inst. is ready for the crash.Its more of an orderly decline in prices with financial inst. being not bank rupt.

Anyways, since this was my first post. Below is my background. Waiting from 2002(thats when i had some decent down payment in hand) to buy a place when it is a little affordable as well as makes financial sense.
Got around 250K downpayment. If govt. bailout fails, then i am planning around 2009. If govt. bailout helps couple of people then I am planning around 2011-2012. My back up plan is if so. cal is immune to all this, then go to some other beautiful parts of the country and have a debt free home for life.

Thanks.
Patient Money.

[Anonymous]

All i can say to this is , the potential owners or any one who wants to make money thru. there home/RE, just hope that the “poor renters” ( like me :)) better have some down payment money and some interest to buy a place so, we dont go back to 1930 economic conditions.

Couple of scenarios can occur from now:

1) Housing goes to more drain ( -50%).
2) Bailout with time line of extending the loans to 2 yrs.
3) Housing is going up ( + .2% up).

In the all the above scenarious, i feel that we should all hope that potential renters/home buyers better have some good money to pay down & have some interest left to buy a place. If not, prices are going to go further drain. In case #3 also, we need buyers to clear up the inventory available till now.

So why is the govt. and financial institutions coming with this bailout saying “keeping the houses for people”.

Two simple reasons:

1) Govt. There is elections coming. No one wants to face with lots of people messed up.At the same time, angrying rest 70% folks with their bailout plan. so they are trying to walk a fine line.
2) Financial inst. They have the cash reserve crunch going on currently. They need cash desperately. Lowering interest rates by fed is one help at the expense of inflation. Other option is let the home buyers give some money every month with a potential of default in future. So this way finacial inst. is ready for the crash.Its more of an orderly decline in prices with financial inst. being not bank rupt.

Anyways, since this was my first post. Below is my background. Waiting from 2002(thats when i had some decent down payment in hand) to buy a place when it is a little affordable as well as makes financial sense.
Got around 250K downpayment. If govt. bailout fails, then i am planning around 2009. If govt. bailout helps couple of people then I am planning around 2011-2012. My back up plan is if so. cal is immune to all this, then go to some other beautiful parts of the country and have a debt free home for life.

Thanks.
Patient Money.

[Anonymous]

All i can say to this is , the potential owners or any one who wants to make money thru. there home/RE, just hope that the “poor renters” ( like me :)) better have some down payment money and some interest to buy a place so, we dont go back to 1930 economic conditions.

Couple of scenarios can occur from now:

1) Housing goes to more drain ( -50%).
2) Bailout with time line of extending the loans to 2 yrs.
3) Housing is going up ( + .2% up).

In the all the above scenarious, i feel that we should all hope that potential renters/home buyers better have some good money to pay down & have some interest left to buy a place. If not, prices are going to go further drain. In case #3 also, we need buyers to clear up the inventory available till now.

So why is the govt. and financial institutions coming with this bailout saying “keeping the houses for people”.

Two simple reasons:

1) Govt. There is elections coming. No one wants to face with lots of people messed up.At the same time, angrying rest 70% folks with their bailout plan. so they are trying to walk a fine line.
2) Financial inst. They have the cash reserve crunch going on currently. They need cash desperately. Lowering interest rates by fed is one help at the expense of inflation. Other option is let the home buyers give some money every month with a potential of default in future. So this way finacial inst. is ready for the crash.Its more of an orderly decline in prices with financial inst. being not bank rupt.

Anyways, since this was my first post. Below is my background. Waiting from 2002(thats when i had some decent down payment in hand) to buy a place when it is a little affordable as well as makes financial sense.
Got around 250K downpayment. If govt. bailout fails, then i am planning around 2009. If govt. bailout helps couple of people then I am planning around 2011-2012. My back up plan is if so. cal is immune to all this, then go to some other beautiful parts of the country and have a debt free home for life.

Thanks.
Patient Money.

[DaCounselor]

LA_R – I don’t think that freezing the interest rate or in some other way modifying an existing purchase money loan would automatically change the characterization of the loan from non-recourse to recourse. I don’think this issue has been tested in the courts yet, and it very well may be down the road by some lenders who have modified purchase money loans. Nevertheless, my feeling is that a court would determine that modifications to a purchase money loan does not equate to a “re-finance” per se, and therefore the loan would remain non-recourse. Certainly anyone who agrees to a modification would want to pay close attention to any mod agreement they may be required to sign to determine if there is any language regarding recourse.

[ucodegen]

LA_R – I don’t think that freezing the interest rate or in some other way modifying an existing purchase money loan would automatically change the characterization of the loan from non-recourse to recourse.
The ones I have seen are really a no-cost refi, not a change in loan terms. It is put forth (advertised) as a loan modification, but paperwork looks like a no-cost refi… some even advise that you take a little money out (cash out) for emergency cushion. This cash out also allows them to charge an extra 0.25% to 0.5% on the rate. Admittedly, I have not seen all the ‘mods’ being done..

Certainly anyone who agrees to a modification would want to pay close attention to any mod agreement they may be required to sign to determine if there is any language regarding recourse.

As always Caveat Emptor..

[ucodegen]

LA_R – I don’t think that freezing the interest rate or in some other way modifying an existing purchase money loan would automatically change the characterization of the loan from non-recourse to recourse.
The ones I have seen are really a no-cost refi, not a change in loan terms. It is put forth (advertised) as a loan modification, but paperwork looks like a no-cost refi… some even advise that you take a little money out (cash out) for emergency cushion. This cash out also allows them to charge an extra 0.25% to 0.5% on the rate. Admittedly, I have not seen all the ‘mods’ being done..

Certainly anyone who agrees to a modification would want to pay close attention to any mod agreement they may be required to sign to determine if there is any language regarding recourse.

As always Caveat Emptor..

[ucodegen]

LA_R – I don’t think that freezing the interest rate or in some other way modifying an existing purchase money loan would automatically change the characterization of the loan from non-recourse to recourse.
The ones I have seen are really a no-cost refi, not a change in loan terms. It is put forth (advertised) as a loan modification, but paperwork looks like a no-cost refi… some even advise that you take a little money out (cash out) for emergency cushion. This cash out also allows them to charge an extra 0.25% to 0.5% on the rate. Admittedly, I have not seen all the ‘mods’ being done..

Certainly anyone who agrees to a modification would want to pay close attention to any mod agreement they may be required to sign to determine if there is any language regarding recourse.

As always Caveat Emptor..

[ucodegen]

LA_R – I don’t think that freezing the interest rate or in some other way modifying an existing purchase money loan would automatically change the characterization of the loan from non-recourse to recourse.
The ones I have seen are really a no-cost refi, not a change in loan terms. It is put forth (advertised) as a loan modification, but paperwork looks like a no-cost refi… some even advise that you take a little money out (cash out) for emergency cushion. This cash out also allows them to charge an extra 0.25% to 0.5% on the rate. Admittedly, I have not seen all the ‘mods’ being done..

Certainly anyone who agrees to a modification would want to pay close attention to any mod agreement they may be required to sign to determine if there is any language regarding recourse.

As always Caveat Emptor..

[ucodegen]

LA_R – I don’t think that freezing the interest rate or in some other way modifying an existing purchase money loan would automatically change the characterization of the loan from non-recourse to recourse.
The ones I have seen are really a no-cost refi, not a change in loan terms. It is put forth (advertised) as a loan modification, but paperwork looks like a no-cost refi… some even advise that you take a little money out (cash out) for emergency cushion. This cash out also allows them to charge an extra 0.25% to 0.5% on the rate. Admittedly, I have not seen all the ‘mods’ being done..

Certainly anyone who agrees to a modification would want to pay close attention to any mod agreement they may be required to sign to determine if there is any language regarding recourse.

As always Caveat Emptor..

[DaCounselor]

LA_R – I don’t think that freezing the interest rate or in some other way modifying an existing purchase money loan would automatically change the characterization of the loan from non-recourse to recourse. I don’think this issue has been tested in the courts yet, and it very well may be down the road by some lenders who have modified purchase money loans. Nevertheless, my feeling is that a court would determine that modifications to a purchase money loan does not equate to a “re-finance” per se, and therefore the loan would remain non-recourse. Certainly anyone who agrees to a modification would want to pay close attention to any mod agreement they may be required to sign to determine if there is any language regarding recourse.

[DaCounselor]

LA_R – I don’t think that freezing the interest rate or in some other way modifying an existing purchase money loan would automatically change the characterization of the loan from non-recourse to recourse. I don’think this issue has been tested in the courts yet, and it very well may be down the road by some lenders who have modified purchase money loans. Nevertheless, my feeling is that a court would determine that modifications to a purchase money loan does not equate to a “re-finance” per se, and therefore the loan would remain non-recourse. Certainly anyone who agrees to a modification would want to pay close attention to any mod agreement they may be required to sign to determine if there is any language regarding recourse.

[DaCounselor]

LA_R – I don’t think that freezing the interest rate or in some other way modifying an existing purchase money loan would automatically change the characterization of the loan from non-recourse to recourse. I don’think this issue has been tested in the courts yet, and it very well may be down the road by some lenders who have modified purchase money loans. Nevertheless, my feeling is that a court would determine that modifications to a purchase money loan does not equate to a “re-finance” per se, and therefore the loan would remain non-recourse. Certainly anyone who agrees to a modification would want to pay close attention to any mod agreement they may be required to sign to determine if there is any language regarding recourse.

[DaCounselor]

LA_R – I don’t think that freezing the interest rate or in some other way modifying an existing purchase money loan would automatically change the characterization of the loan from non-recourse to recourse. I don’think this issue has been tested in the courts yet, and it very well may be down the road by some lenders who have modified purchase money loans. Nevertheless, my feeling is that a court would determine that modifications to a purchase money loan does not equate to a “re-finance” per se, and therefore the loan would remain non-recourse. Certainly anyone who agrees to a modification would want to pay close attention to any mod agreement they may be required to sign to determine if there is any language regarding recourse.

[LA_Renter]

I just saw this post on the LA times blog, Is this true??

“In regards to the bailout that Cramer is crying for, what do you think about this aspect of the mortgage bailout?

Hope Now Alliance = banks hoping for more money NOW?

Please let me know if I’m on the right track here. As I understand it, currently in California many borrowers who have not refinanced have NON-RECOURSE LOANS.

The FB’s with these loans have the right to walk away and mail the keys to the bank.

———————
Definition of non-recourse loan: A secured loan (debt) that is secured by a pledge of collateral, typically real property, but for which the borrower is not personally liable. If the borrower defaults, the lender/issuer can seize the collateral, but the lender’s recovery is limited to the collateral. If the property is insufficient to cover the outstanding loan balance (for example, if real estate prices have dropped), the lender is simply out the difference.
———————

HOWEVER, IF the FB refinances, they LOSE their NON-RECOURSE status.

I would assume that if a FB takes the bail-out bait and calls the lender to get their interest rate increase frozen, then this revision in the contract would switch their mortgage from NON-RECOURSE to RECOURSE.

After their interest rate is frozen the FB cannot walk away from their home without losing everything: money in savings, 401k, cars… and having their wages garnished. Seems similar to the new BK laws. It’s the new indentured servitude (but didn’t the servant get their freedom after they paid for 7 years, rather than 30 years or more paying on an inflated mortgage?).

I am wondering if one reason that these bail-out plans have been announced with such vague language is to test the waters to see if the public catches on about the downside for the FB’s.

FB’S: Don’t take the bait! Preserve your right to walk away from an upside-down mortage. This right is the most valuable thing you have in this uncertain time. Be sceptical! When was the last time a bank just did you a favor without something in it for them??!!”

[LA_Renter]

I just saw this post on the LA times blog, Is this true??

“In regards to the bailout that Cramer is crying for, what do you think about this aspect of the mortgage bailout?

Hope Now Alliance = banks hoping for more money NOW?

Please let me know if I’m on the right track here. As I understand it, currently in California many borrowers who have not refinanced have NON-RECOURSE LOANS.

The FB’s with these loans have the right to walk away and mail the keys to the bank.

———————
Definition of non-recourse loan: A secured loan (debt) that is secured by a pledge of collateral, typically real property, but for which the borrower is not personally liable. If the borrower defaults, the lender/issuer can seize the collateral, but the lender’s recovery is limited to the collateral. If the property is insufficient to cover the outstanding loan balance (for example, if real estate prices have dropped), the lender is simply out the difference.
———————

HOWEVER, IF the FB refinances, they LOSE their NON-RECOURSE status.

I would assume that if a FB takes the bail-out bait and calls the lender to get their interest rate increase frozen, then this revision in the contract would switch their mortgage from NON-RECOURSE to RECOURSE.

After their interest rate is frozen the FB cannot walk away from their home without losing everything: money in savings, 401k, cars… and having their wages garnished. Seems similar to the new BK laws. It’s the new indentured servitude (but didn’t the servant get their freedom after they paid for 7 years, rather than 30 years or more paying on an inflated mortgage?).

I am wondering if one reason that these bail-out plans have been announced with such vague language is to test the waters to see if the public catches on about the downside for the FB’s.

FB’S: Don’t take the bait! Preserve your right to walk away from an upside-down mortage. This right is the most valuable thing you have in this uncertain time. Be sceptical! When was the last time a bank just did you a favor without something in it for them??!!”

[LA_Renter]

I just saw this post on the LA times blog, Is this true??

“In regards to the bailout that Cramer is crying for, what do you think about this aspect of the mortgage bailout?

Hope Now Alliance = banks hoping for more money NOW?

Please let me know if I’m on the right track here. As I understand it, currently in California many borrowers who have not refinanced have NON-RECOURSE LOANS.

The FB’s with these loans have the right to walk away and mail the keys to the bank.

———————
Definition of non-recourse loan: A secured loan (debt) that is secured by a pledge of collateral, typically real property, but for which the borrower is not personally liable. If the borrower defaults, the lender/issuer can seize the collateral, but the lender’s recovery is limited to the collateral. If the property is insufficient to cover the outstanding loan balance (for example, if real estate prices have dropped), the lender is simply out the difference.
———————

HOWEVER, IF the FB refinances, they LOSE their NON-RECOURSE status.

I would assume that if a FB takes the bail-out bait and calls the lender to get their interest rate increase frozen, then this revision in the contract would switch their mortgage from NON-RECOURSE to RECOURSE.

After their interest rate is frozen the FB cannot walk away from their home without losing everything: money in savings, 401k, cars… and having their wages garnished. Seems similar to the new BK laws. It’s the new indentured servitude (but didn’t the servant get their freedom after they paid for 7 years, rather than 30 years or more paying on an inflated mortgage?).

I am wondering if one reason that these bail-out plans have been announced with such vague language is to test the waters to see if the public catches on about the downside for the FB’s.

FB’S: Don’t take the bait! Preserve your right to walk away from an upside-down mortage. This right is the most valuable thing you have in this uncertain time. Be sceptical! When was the last time a bank just did you a favor without something in it for them??!!”

[LA_Renter]

I just saw this post on the LA times blog, Is this true??

“In regards to the bailout that Cramer is crying for, what do you think about this aspect of the mortgage bailout?

Hope Now Alliance = banks hoping for more money NOW?

Please let me know if I’m on the right track here. As I understand it, currently in California many borrowers who have not refinanced have NON-RECOURSE LOANS.

The FB’s with these loans have the right to walk away and mail the keys to the bank.

———————
Definition of non-recourse loan: A secured loan (debt) that is secured by a pledge of collateral, typically real property, but for which the borrower is not personally liable. If the borrower defaults, the lender/issuer can seize the collateral, but the lender’s recovery is limited to the collateral. If the property is insufficient to cover the outstanding loan balance (for example, if real estate prices have dropped), the lender is simply out the difference.
———————

HOWEVER, IF the FB refinances, they LOSE their NON-RECOURSE status.

I would assume that if a FB takes the bail-out bait and calls the lender to get their interest rate increase frozen, then this revision in the contract would switch their mortgage from NON-RECOURSE to RECOURSE.

After their interest rate is frozen the FB cannot walk away from their home without losing everything: money in savings, 401k, cars… and having their wages garnished. Seems similar to the new BK laws. It’s the new indentured servitude (but didn’t the servant get their freedom after they paid for 7 years, rather than 30 years or more paying on an inflated mortgage?).

I am wondering if one reason that these bail-out plans have been announced with such vague language is to test the waters to see if the public catches on about the downside for the FB’s.

FB’S: Don’t take the bait! Preserve your right to walk away from an upside-down mortage. This right is the most valuable thing you have in this uncertain time. Be sceptical! When was the last time a bank just did you a favor without something in it for them??!!”

[ucodegen]

@Multipleproperty

Boy are you out to lunch on your info. Ok.. starting from some where in the middle…

I know most of you are bitter because you don’t own homes. Thus, the tenor of this forum, which is generally caustic. Watching others suffer makes you feel a bit better about your situation as a renter

Dude, wake up. Most of the people on this site are up to their neck in debt. I heard about this site from a handful of people, and all of them are bitter cash poor renters.

Silly boy. There are several long term posters that have been here since the wild real-estate days, who have the ability to buy but did not.. because the rent-buy weighting did not work out and we do not want to risk financial suicide and expect Uncle Sam to bail use out of our stupidity. The cash poor renters were continually thinking of how to get in on the RE Ponzi Scheme, the Piggs were yelling at the top of our voice “Stop the madness”. Some of the newer posters/viewers may be in the category of ‘bitter renter’, but most of us old timers either own or are quite happy renting right now. Myself, I am saving(and investing) at a rate greater than 30% of gross income, or greater than 50% of net income (net of taxes, 401K contribs(maxed)).

Here is why I am upset on the bailouts:
1) It rewards bad behavior in Mortgage lenders(honesty in lending), CDO structures(misrepresenting risks in securitized loans), RE agents(acting as investment advisors, inserting themselves into the middle of the transaction instead of being a broker.. stuff that would get you jailed by the SEC and your series 7 yanked for life), home owners(the home ATM) and new home buyers(Not making sure they can afford what they purchase) while at the same time punishing those that act with prudence and live under their means. If the players in the RE Ponzi Scheme don’t have a penalty, the next time will be worse (more RE Ponzi Scheme players).
2) It really does not bail out the homebuyers, but it does bail out the lenders. Purchase money loans are non-recourse in California. This means that the buyers can walk away from the 1st mortgage on the overpriced asset if they have to, and the bank has to eat the deficiency. Once homeowners avail themselves of the “bail out”, they are no longer dealing with a purchase money loan. The loan has now become recourse, which means the lender can pursue the homeowner should the loan eventually result in foreclosure. This last part is what makes it bad for homeowners. I would recommend that any homeowner having financial problems on a purchase money loan, not use the bail-out. They will be able to walk away from the property if they have to.
3) The bailout supports the present overpriced housing (for the time being), which causes problems for any new buyers trying to enter the market. Eventually things will correct.. the question becomes who is the last fool buying.

The underlying issue is that all things have to return to a norm. The overpriced assets can get devalued, or the all other assets can get inflated up to the price of the overpriced asset.
1) In the example of the overpriced assets getting devalued, the RE speculators and unwise purchases are the ones getting hit, but it will largely be isolated to them. 100% of the current housing did not change hands this time. Less than 20% of total housing did.
2) In the case of everything else getting inflated, this is the ‘bailout’ case. Your wages buy less, gas prices are higher, price of money for business development is higher, Fed can’t get their deficit spending funded through treasuries so they print money.. spurring even greater inflation.. etc

All that changes in these outcomes is: who gets stuck with the bill. The cost of the correction can not be avoided, all that can be done is adjust who takes the cost. I don’t think a 1930’s depression can occur. The 30’s depression was caused by speculating on businesses with no income(not like a house whose ‘income’ is the amount of rent it shields you from) with margin overhang above 100%(similar to 100%morgages). The key difference is the speculation on a tangible asset verses a paper asset. The former provides the floor.

[ucodegen]

@Multipleproperty

Boy are you out to lunch on your info. Ok.. starting from some where in the middle…

I know most of you are bitter because you don’t own homes. Thus, the tenor of this forum, which is generally caustic. Watching others suffer makes you feel a bit better about your situation as a renter

Dude, wake up. Most of the people on this site are up to their neck in debt. I heard about this site from a handful of people, and all of them are bitter cash poor renters.

Silly boy. There are several long term posters that have been here since the wild real-estate days, who have the ability to buy but did not.. because the rent-buy weighting did not work out and we do not want to risk financial suicide and expect Uncle Sam to bail use out of our stupidity. The cash poor renters were continually thinking of how to get in on the RE Ponzi Scheme, the Piggs were yelling at the top of our voice “Stop the madness”. Some of the newer posters/viewers may be in the category of ‘bitter renter’, but most of us old timers either own or are quite happy renting right now. Myself, I am saving(and investing) at a rate greater than 30% of gross income, or greater than 50% of net income (net of taxes, 401K contribs(maxed)).

Here is why I am upset on the bailouts:
1) It rewards bad behavior in Mortgage lenders(honesty in lending), CDO structures(misrepresenting risks in securitized loans), RE agents(acting as investment advisors, inserting themselves into the middle of the transaction instead of being a broker.. stuff that would get you jailed by the SEC and your series 7 yanked for life), home owners(the home ATM) and new home buyers(Not making sure they can afford what they purchase) while at the same time punishing those that act with prudence and live under their means. If the players in the RE Ponzi Scheme don’t have a penalty, the next time will be worse (more RE Ponzi Scheme players).
2) It really does not bail out the homebuyers, but it does bail out the lenders. Purchase money loans are non-recourse in California. This means that the buyers can walk away from the 1st mortgage on the overpriced asset if they have to, and the bank has to eat the deficiency. Once homeowners avail themselves of the “bail out”, they are no longer dealing with a purchase money loan. The loan has now become recourse, which means the lender can pursue the homeowner should the loan eventually result in foreclosure. This last part is what makes it bad for homeowners. I would recommend that any homeowner having financial problems on a purchase money loan, not use the bail-out. They will be able to walk away from the property if they have to.
3) The bailout supports the present overpriced housing (for the time being), which causes problems for any new buyers trying to enter the market. Eventually things will correct.. the question becomes who is the last fool buying.

The underlying issue is that all things have to return to a norm. The overpriced assets can get devalued, or the all other assets can get inflated up to the price of the overpriced asset.
1) In the example of the overpriced assets getting devalued, the RE speculators and unwise purchases are the ones getting hit, but it will largely be isolated to them. 100% of the current housing did not change hands this time. Less than 20% of total housing did.
2) In the case of everything else getting inflated, this is the ‘bailout’ case. Your wages buy less, gas prices are higher, price of money for business development is higher, Fed can’t get their deficit spending funded through treasuries so they print money.. spurring even greater inflation.. etc

All that changes in these outcomes is: who gets stuck with the bill. The cost of the correction can not be avoided, all that can be done is adjust who takes the cost. I don’t think a 1930’s depression can occur. The 30’s depression was caused by speculating on businesses with no income(not like a house whose ‘income’ is the amount of rent it shields you from) with margin overhang above 100%(similar to 100%morgages). The key difference is the speculation on a tangible asset verses a paper asset. The former provides the floor.

[ucodegen]

@Multipleproperty

Boy are you out to lunch on your info. Ok.. starting from some where in the middle…

I know most of you are bitter because you don’t own homes. Thus, the tenor of this forum, which is generally caustic. Watching others suffer makes you feel a bit better about your situation as a renter

Dude, wake up. Most of the people on this site are up to their neck in debt. I heard about this site from a handful of people, and all of them are bitter cash poor renters.

Silly boy. There are several long term posters that have been here since the wild real-estate days, who have the ability to buy but did not.. because the rent-buy weighting did not work out and we do not want to risk financial suicide and expect Uncle Sam to bail use out of our stupidity. The cash poor renters were continually thinking of how to get in on the RE Ponzi Scheme, the Piggs were yelling at the top of our voice “Stop the madness”. Some of the newer posters/viewers may be in the category of ‘bitter renter’, but most of us old timers either own or are quite happy renting right now. Myself, I am saving(and investing) at a rate greater than 30% of gross income, or greater than 50% of net income (net of taxes, 401K contribs(maxed)).

Here is why I am upset on the bailouts:
1) It rewards bad behavior in Mortgage lenders(honesty in lending), CDO structures(misrepresenting risks in securitized loans), RE agents(acting as investment advisors, inserting themselves into the middle of the transaction instead of being a broker.. stuff that would get you jailed by the SEC and your series 7 yanked for life), home owners(the home ATM) and new home buyers(Not making sure they can afford what they purchase) while at the same time punishing those that act with prudence and live under their means. If the players in the RE Ponzi Scheme don’t have a penalty, the next time will be worse (more RE Ponzi Scheme players).
2) It really does not bail out the homebuyers, but it does bail out the lenders. Purchase money loans are non-recourse in California. This means that the buyers can walk away from the 1st mortgage on the overpriced asset if they have to, and the bank has to eat the deficiency. Once homeowners avail themselves of the “bail out”, they are no longer dealing with a purchase money loan. The loan has now become recourse, which means the lender can pursue the homeowner should the loan eventually result in foreclosure. This last part is what makes it bad for homeowners. I would recommend that any homeowner having financial problems on a purchase money loan, not use the bail-out. They will be able to walk away from the property if they have to.
3) The bailout supports the present overpriced housing (for the time being), which causes problems for any new buyers trying to enter the market. Eventually things will correct.. the question becomes who is the last fool buying.

The underlying issue is that all things have to return to a norm. The overpriced assets can get devalued, or the all other assets can get inflated up to the price of the overpriced asset.
1) In the example of the overpriced assets getting devalued, the RE speculators and unwise purchases are the ones getting hit, but it will largely be isolated to them. 100% of the current housing did not change hands this time. Less than 20% of total housing did.
2) In the case of everything else getting inflated, this is the ‘bailout’ case. Your wages buy less, gas prices are higher, price of money for business development is higher, Fed can’t get their deficit spending funded through treasuries so they print money.. spurring even greater inflation.. etc

All that changes in these outcomes is: who gets stuck with the bill. The cost of the correction can not be avoided, all that can be done is adjust who takes the cost. I don’t think a 1930’s depression can occur. The 30’s depression was caused by speculating on businesses with no income(not like a house whose ‘income’ is the amount of rent it shields you from) with margin overhang above 100%(similar to 100%morgages). The key difference is the speculation on a tangible asset verses a paper asset. The former provides the floor.

[ucodegen]

@Multipleproperty

Boy are you out to lunch on your info. Ok.. starting from some where in the middle…

I know most of you are bitter because you don’t own homes. Thus, the tenor of this forum, which is generally caustic. Watching others suffer makes you feel a bit better about your situation as a renter

Dude, wake up. Most of the people on this site are up to their neck in debt. I heard about this site from a handful of people, and all of them are bitter cash poor renters.

Silly boy. There are several long term posters that have been here since the wild real-estate days, who have the ability to buy but did not.. because the rent-buy weighting did not work out and we do not want to risk financial suicide and expect Uncle Sam to bail use out of our stupidity. The cash poor renters were continually thinking of how to get in on the RE Ponzi Scheme, the Piggs were yelling at the top of our voice “Stop the madness”. Some of the newer posters/viewers may be in the category of ‘bitter renter’, but most of us old timers either own or are quite happy renting right now. Myself, I am saving(and investing) at a rate greater than 30% of gross income, or greater than 50% of net income (net of taxes, 401K contribs(maxed)).

Here is why I am upset on the bailouts:
1) It rewards bad behavior in Mortgage lenders(honesty in lending), CDO structures(misrepresenting risks in securitized loans), RE agents(acting as investment advisors, inserting themselves into the middle of the transaction instead of being a broker.. stuff that would get you jailed by the SEC and your series 7 yanked for life), home owners(the home ATM) and new home buyers(Not making sure they can afford what they purchase) while at the same time punishing those that act with prudence and live under their means. If the players in the RE Ponzi Scheme don’t have a penalty, the next time will be worse (more RE Ponzi Scheme players).
2) It really does not bail out the homebuyers, but it does bail out the lenders. Purchase money loans are non-recourse in California. This means that the buyers can walk away from the 1st mortgage on the overpriced asset if they have to, and the bank has to eat the deficiency. Once homeowners avail themselves of the “bail out”, they are no longer dealing with a purchase money loan. The loan has now become recourse, which means the lender can pursue the homeowner should the loan eventually result in foreclosure. This last part is what makes it bad for homeowners. I would recommend that any homeowner having financial problems on a purchase money loan, not use the bail-out. They will be able to walk away from the property if they have to.
3) The bailout supports the present overpriced housing (for the time being), which causes problems for any new buyers trying to enter the market. Eventually things will correct.. the question becomes who is the last fool buying.

The underlying issue is that all things have to return to a norm. The overpriced assets can get devalued, or the all other assets can get inflated up to the price of the overpriced asset.
1) In the example of the overpriced assets getting devalued, the RE speculators and unwise purchases are the ones getting hit, but it will largely be isolated to them. 100% of the current housing did not change hands this time. Less than 20% of total housing did.
2) In the case of everything else getting inflated, this is the ‘bailout’ case. Your wages buy less, gas prices are higher, price of money for business development is higher, Fed can’t get their deficit spending funded through treasuries so they print money.. spurring even greater inflation.. etc

All that changes in these outcomes is: who gets stuck with the bill. The cost of the correction can not be avoided, all that can be done is adjust who takes the cost. I don’t think a 1930’s depression can occur. The 30’s depression was caused by speculating on businesses with no income(not like a house whose ‘income’ is the amount of rent it shields you from) with margin overhang above 100%(similar to 100%morgages). The key difference is the speculation on a tangible asset verses a paper asset. The former provides the floor.

[lonestar2000]

“Most of the people on this site are up to their neck in debt.”

LOL you assume much, grasshoppa. As they say, ignorance is bliss.

[lonestar2000]

“Most of the people on this site are up to their neck in debt.”

LOL you assume much, grasshoppa. As they say, ignorance is bliss.

[lonestar2000]

“Most of the people on this site are up to their neck in debt.”

LOL you assume much, grasshoppa. As they say, ignorance is bliss.

[lonestar2000]

“Most of the people on this site are up to their neck in debt.”

LOL you assume much, grasshoppa. As they say, ignorance is bliss.

[lonestar2000]

“Most of the people on this site are up to their neck in debt.”

LOL you assume much, grasshoppa. As they say, ignorance is bliss.

[Multiplepropertyowner]

I thought Multiple Property Owner was a great handle. My other choice was “slumlord”. Oh, and I meant “Pwhinning” with a silent “P”.
In regard to the fact that most of the savvy people on this site are moving their money from Cd’s to foreign investments our whatever. Dude, wake up. Most of the people on this site are up to their neck in debt. I heard about this site from a handful of people, and all of them are bitter cash poor renters. Granted, there are some great posters in Piggs, and Rich is the man, but most people here would not be able to buy a home unless they move to Arkansas. You know it is true.

[Multiplepropertyowner]

I thought Multiple Property Owner was a great handle. My other choice was “slumlord”. Oh, and I meant “Pwhinning” with a silent “P”.
In regard to the fact that most of the savvy people on this site are moving their money from Cd’s to foreign investments our whatever. Dude, wake up. Most of the people on this site are up to their neck in debt. I heard about this site from a handful of people, and all of them are bitter cash poor renters. Granted, there are some great posters in Piggs, and Rich is the man, but most people here would not be able to buy a home unless they move to Arkansas. You know it is true.

[Multiplepropertyowner]

I thought Multiple Property Owner was a great handle. My other choice was “slumlord”. Oh, and I meant “Pwhinning” with a silent “P”.
In regard to the fact that most of the savvy people on this site are moving their money from Cd’s to foreign investments our whatever. Dude, wake up. Most of the people on this site are up to their neck in debt. I heard about this site from a handful of people, and all of them are bitter cash poor renters. Granted, there are some great posters in Piggs, and Rich is the man, but most people here would not be able to buy a home unless they move to Arkansas. You know it is true.

[Multiplepropertyowner]

I thought Multiple Property Owner was a great handle. My other choice was “slumlord”. Oh, and I meant “Pwhinning” with a silent “P”.
In regard to the fact that most of the savvy people on this site are moving their money from Cd’s to foreign investments our whatever. Dude, wake up. Most of the people on this site are up to their neck in debt. I heard about this site from a handful of people, and all of them are bitter cash poor renters. Granted, there are some great posters in Piggs, and Rich is the man, but most people here would not be able to buy a home unless they move to Arkansas. You know it is true.

[hugo]

To VoZangre –

I though Hank Hill’s father was shinless with a small (sic) yureeter.

[lendingbubblecontinues]

to the OP- you said:

“without federal intervention, we will be facing an economic meltdown, which will eclipse the 1930’s”

sounds like the seeds of prosperity have already been sewn…why not go out and buy a few more houses;)?

meanwhile, I am completely content renting the home I am in, knowing that my landlords are stuck on the mousewheel with very little hope of getting off.

Christmas has come early for my family.

Let the Schadenfreude continue into 2008 and beyond!!!!!

[Bugs]

Multi-Dingo,

Lemme ask you – where were you when the bulls were being gleeful and were promoting the virtues of “being bold”? Did you spend any effort at that time telling them to be careful what they wished for? I think not, otherwise you’d be on this side of the discussion right now.

There are some people on this board (like me) who are holding RE but at a reasonable price, and thus are neither renters nor overleveraged. I don’t wish ill on anyone but the crooks, but I do have some bitterness in me:

I am bitter that the laws and regulations that are in place to prevent this type of damage were not enforced. I am bitter that the politicians and corrupt bankers, along with the greedy and foolish borrowers who apparently comprise their constituency, are attempting to make me and every other responsible citizen subsidize their greed and foolishness. I was mightily annoyed that the sound advice that was offered to these fools went unheeded, and I was especially annoyed at the attitudes of many of the bulls when presented with data and analysis that clearly indicated they were playing with fire. I retain a certain amount of bitterness at the attitude of entitlement that these idiots display, now blaming their predicament on the media and claiming this downturn was created by the blogs and the resetting of ARM rates only for the subprime borrowers. Yeah, the fact that these fools continue to bask in their ignorance and refuse to acknowledge the simplest of truths is indeed cause for some bitterness.

It is true that most of the regulars on this forum are bears right now, but it also true that most of them are actively watching what’s going on so they can put on their bull costume at the right time. I don’t see that as having a negative outlook; quite the contrary, I see it as having a very positive outlook and making the best of a horrible situation that was created by others.

Here it is, cuz – it ain’t what you used to “own” that counts, it’s what you can keep.

[HereWeGo]

Generally speaking, it’s the money renters that are up to their necks in debt these days.

[Anonymous]

“whining” doesn’t have a double n.

Government school curriculum has done a lot of damage in the spelling arena.

[ibjames]

After thinking about it, why would a debt ridden renter want to be on this site anyway? It would not add any value to him. We are always talking about good credit scores, lack of debt and need for down payments. If you were a debt ridden renter it would be a constant reminder of how you are screwing up. It doesn’t make sense.

Negative press? I don’t get where he is going with that either. It’s called bringing data and analyzing it. While tons of articles are out on the internet and in print hardly any of it really chews it up to get valid outputs. Especially for an area like SD which is in the middle of it all.

I look at this site as a beacon for many potential buyers and often refer people to it because of this. Many are thinking this is the chance to buy without checking out all aspects, I refer them here.

Look at the thread titles, it’s not like they are “I hate my landlord” “renting sucks” “how come I can’t buy?” In fact, one thread went on about making a rental property yours for the long haul. It wasn’t because we couldn’t afford to buy, it’s because we knew we were going to be renting to weather the mortgage fiasco that was unfolding in front of us.

I think we get a new poster like you once a week now, if you don’t agree with the site’s principles then move on to the “multiple property we are awesome!” forums and you guys can pat yourselves on the back all day! I’m sure you would like it there.

My wife and I moved here a few years ago and basically stated that buying a house isn’t worth it if I have to take out a crazy mortgage to do so. Crap, I wanted to post more but I have to turn my PC off, I’m trying to cut down the electricity bill because I have to make my rent payment this month.

[NotCranky]

Thanks ibjames…I think? I guess I am frequently an
e-bonehead lol.

[NotCranky]

Thanks ibjames…I think? I guess I am frequently an
e-bonehead lol.

[NotCranky]

Thanks ibjames…I think? I guess I am frequently an
e-bonehead lol.

[NotCranky]

Thanks ibjames…I think? I guess I am frequently an
e-bonehead lol.

[NotCranky]

Thanks ibjames…I think? I guess I am frequently an
e-bonehead lol.

[ibjames]

After thinking about it, why would a debt ridden renter want to be on this site anyway? It would not add any value to him. We are always talking about good credit scores, lack of debt and need for down payments. If you were a debt ridden renter it would be a constant reminder of how you are screwing up. It doesn’t make sense.

Negative press? I don’t get where he is going with that either. It’s called bringing data and analyzing it. While tons of articles are out on the internet and in print hardly any of it really chews it up to get valid outputs. Especially for an area like SD which is in the middle of it all.

I look at this site as a beacon for many potential buyers and often refer people to it because of this. Many are thinking this is the chance to buy without checking out all aspects, I refer them here.

Look at the thread titles, it’s not like they are “I hate my landlord” “renting sucks” “how come I can’t buy?” In fact, one thread went on about making a rental property yours for the long haul. It wasn’t because we couldn’t afford to buy, it’s because we knew we were going to be renting to weather the mortgage fiasco that was unfolding in front of us.

I think we get a new poster like you once a week now, if you don’t agree with the site’s principles then move on to the “multiple property we are awesome!” forums and you guys can pat yourselves on the back all day! I’m sure you would like it there.

My wife and I moved here a few years ago and basically stated that buying a house isn’t worth it if I have to take out a crazy mortgage to do so. Crap, I wanted to post more but I have to turn my PC off, I’m trying to cut down the electricity bill because I have to make my rent payment this month.

[ibjames]

After thinking about it, why would a debt ridden renter want to be on this site anyway? It would not add any value to him. We are always talking about good credit scores, lack of debt and need for down payments. If you were a debt ridden renter it would be a constant reminder of how you are screwing up. It doesn’t make sense.

Negative press? I don’t get where he is going with that either. It’s called bringing data and analyzing it. While tons of articles are out on the internet and in print hardly any of it really chews it up to get valid outputs. Especially for an area like SD which is in the middle of it all.

I look at this site as a beacon for many potential buyers and often refer people to it because of this. Many are thinking this is the chance to buy without checking out all aspects, I refer them here.

Look at the thread titles, it’s not like they are “I hate my landlord” “renting sucks” “how come I can’t buy?” In fact, one thread went on about making a rental property yours for the long haul. It wasn’t because we couldn’t afford to buy, it’s because we knew we were going to be renting to weather the mortgage fiasco that was unfolding in front of us.

I think we get a new poster like you once a week now, if you don’t agree with the site’s principles then move on to the “multiple property we are awesome!” forums and you guys can pat yourselves on the back all day! I’m sure you would like it there.

My wife and I moved here a few years ago and basically stated that buying a house isn’t worth it if I have to take out a crazy mortgage to do so. Crap, I wanted to post more but I have to turn my PC off, I’m trying to cut down the electricity bill because I have to make my rent payment this month.

[ibjames]

After thinking about it, why would a debt ridden renter want to be on this site anyway? It would not add any value to him. We are always talking about good credit scores, lack of debt and need for down payments. If you were a debt ridden renter it would be a constant reminder of how you are screwing up. It doesn’t make sense.

Negative press? I don’t get where he is going with that either. It’s called bringing data and analyzing it. While tons of articles are out on the internet and in print hardly any of it really chews it up to get valid outputs. Especially for an area like SD which is in the middle of it all.

I look at this site as a beacon for many potential buyers and often refer people to it because of this. Many are thinking this is the chance to buy without checking out all aspects, I refer them here.

Look at the thread titles, it’s not like they are “I hate my landlord” “renting sucks” “how come I can’t buy?” In fact, one thread went on about making a rental property yours for the long haul. It wasn’t because we couldn’t afford to buy, it’s because we knew we were going to be renting to weather the mortgage fiasco that was unfolding in front of us.

I think we get a new poster like you once a week now, if you don’t agree with the site’s principles then move on to the “multiple property we are awesome!” forums and you guys can pat yourselves on the back all day! I’m sure you would like it there.

My wife and I moved here a few years ago and basically stated that buying a house isn’t worth it if I have to take out a crazy mortgage to do so. Crap, I wanted to post more but I have to turn my PC off, I’m trying to cut down the electricity bill because I have to make my rent payment this month.

[ibjames]

After thinking about it, why would a debt ridden renter want to be on this site anyway? It would not add any value to him. We are always talking about good credit scores, lack of debt and need for down payments. If you were a debt ridden renter it would be a constant reminder of how you are screwing up. It doesn’t make sense.

Negative press? I don’t get where he is going with that either. It’s called bringing data and analyzing it. While tons of articles are out on the internet and in print hardly any of it really chews it up to get valid outputs. Especially for an area like SD which is in the middle of it all.

I look at this site as a beacon for many potential buyers and often refer people to it because of this. Many are thinking this is the chance to buy without checking out all aspects, I refer them here.

Look at the thread titles, it’s not like they are “I hate my landlord” “renting sucks” “how come I can’t buy?” In fact, one thread went on about making a rental property yours for the long haul. It wasn’t because we couldn’t afford to buy, it’s because we knew we were going to be renting to weather the mortgage fiasco that was unfolding in front of us.

I think we get a new poster like you once a week now, if you don’t agree with the site’s principles then move on to the “multiple property we are awesome!” forums and you guys can pat yourselves on the back all day! I’m sure you would like it there.

My wife and I moved here a few years ago and basically stated that buying a house isn’t worth it if I have to take out a crazy mortgage to do so. Crap, I wanted to post more but I have to turn my PC off, I’m trying to cut down the electricity bill because I have to make my rent payment this month.

[Anonymous]

“whining” doesn’t have a double n.

Government school curriculum has done a lot of damage in the spelling arena.

[Anonymous]

“whining” doesn’t have a double n.

Government school curriculum has done a lot of damage in the spelling arena.

[Anonymous]

“whining” doesn’t have a double n.

Government school curriculum has done a lot of damage in the spelling arena.

[Anonymous]

“whining” doesn’t have a double n.

Government school curriculum has done a lot of damage in the spelling arena.

[HereWeGo]

Generally speaking, it’s the money renters that are up to their necks in debt these days.

[HereWeGo]

Generally speaking, it’s the money renters that are up to their necks in debt these days.

[HereWeGo]

Generally speaking, it’s the money renters that are up to their necks in debt these days.

[HereWeGo]

Generally speaking, it’s the money renters that are up to their necks in debt these days.

[Bugs]

Multi-Dingo,

Lemme ask you – where were you when the bulls were being gleeful and were promoting the virtues of “being bold”? Did you spend any effort at that time telling them to be careful what they wished for? I think not, otherwise you’d be on this side of the discussion right now.

There are some people on this board (like me) who are holding RE but at a reasonable price, and thus are neither renters nor overleveraged. I don’t wish ill on anyone but the crooks, but I do have some bitterness in me:

I am bitter that the laws and regulations that are in place to prevent this type of damage were not enforced. I am bitter that the politicians and corrupt bankers, along with the greedy and foolish borrowers who apparently comprise their constituency, are attempting to make me and every other responsible citizen subsidize their greed and foolishness. I was mightily annoyed that the sound advice that was offered to these fools went unheeded, and I was especially annoyed at the attitudes of many of the bulls when presented with data and analysis that clearly indicated they were playing with fire. I retain a certain amount of bitterness at the attitude of entitlement that these idiots display, now blaming their predicament on the media and claiming this downturn was created by the blogs and the resetting of ARM rates only for the subprime borrowers. Yeah, the fact that these fools continue to bask in their ignorance and refuse to acknowledge the simplest of truths is indeed cause for some bitterness.

It is true that most of the regulars on this forum are bears right now, but it also true that most of them are actively watching what’s going on so they can put on their bull costume at the right time. I don’t see that as having a negative outlook; quite the contrary, I see it as having a very positive outlook and making the best of a horrible situation that was created by others.

Here it is, cuz – it ain’t what you used to “own” that counts, it’s what you can keep.

[Bugs]

Multi-Dingo,

Lemme ask you – where were you when the bulls were being gleeful and were promoting the virtues of “being bold”? Did you spend any effort at that time telling them to be careful what they wished for? I think not, otherwise you’d be on this side of the discussion right now.

There are some people on this board (like me) who are holding RE but at a reasonable price, and thus are neither renters nor overleveraged. I don’t wish ill on anyone but the crooks, but I do have some bitterness in me:

I am bitter that the laws and regulations that are in place to prevent this type of damage were not enforced. I am bitter that the politicians and corrupt bankers, along with the greedy and foolish borrowers who apparently comprise their constituency, are attempting to make me and every other responsible citizen subsidize their greed and foolishness. I was mightily annoyed that the sound advice that was offered to these fools went unheeded, and I was especially annoyed at the attitudes of many of the bulls when presented with data and analysis that clearly indicated they were playing with fire. I retain a certain amount of bitterness at the attitude of entitlement that these idiots display, now blaming their predicament on the media and claiming this downturn was created by the blogs and the resetting of ARM rates only for the subprime borrowers. Yeah, the fact that these fools continue to bask in their ignorance and refuse to acknowledge the simplest of truths is indeed cause for some bitterness.

It is true that most of the regulars on this forum are bears right now, but it also true that most of them are actively watching what’s going on so they can put on their bull costume at the right time. I don’t see that as having a negative outlook; quite the contrary, I see it as having a very positive outlook and making the best of a horrible situation that was created by others.

Here it is, cuz – it ain’t what you used to “own” that counts, it’s what you can keep.

[Bugs]

Multi-Dingo,

Lemme ask you – where were you when the bulls were being gleeful and were promoting the virtues of “being bold”? Did you spend any effort at that time telling them to be careful what they wished for? I think not, otherwise you’d be on this side of the discussion right now.

There are some people on this board (like me) who are holding RE but at a reasonable price, and thus are neither renters nor overleveraged. I don’t wish ill on anyone but the crooks, but I do have some bitterness in me:

I am bitter that the laws and regulations that are in place to prevent this type of damage were not enforced. I am bitter that the politicians and corrupt bankers, along with the greedy and foolish borrowers who apparently comprise their constituency, are attempting to make me and every other responsible citizen subsidize their greed and foolishness. I was mightily annoyed that the sound advice that was offered to these fools went unheeded, and I was especially annoyed at the attitudes of many of the bulls when presented with data and analysis that clearly indicated they were playing with fire. I retain a certain amount of bitterness at the attitude of entitlement that these idiots display, now blaming their predicament on the media and claiming this downturn was created by the blogs and the resetting of ARM rates only for the subprime borrowers. Yeah, the fact that these fools continue to bask in their ignorance and refuse to acknowledge the simplest of truths is indeed cause for some bitterness.

It is true that most of the regulars on this forum are bears right now, but it also true that most of them are actively watching what’s going on so they can put on their bull costume at the right time. I don’t see that as having a negative outlook; quite the contrary, I see it as having a very positive outlook and making the best of a horrible situation that was created by others.

Here it is, cuz – it ain’t what you used to “own” that counts, it’s what you can keep.

[Bugs]

Multi-Dingo,

Lemme ask you – where were you when the bulls were being gleeful and were promoting the virtues of “being bold”? Did you spend any effort at that time telling them to be careful what they wished for? I think not, otherwise you’d be on this side of the discussion right now.

There are some people on this board (like me) who are holding RE but at a reasonable price, and thus are neither renters nor overleveraged. I don’t wish ill on anyone but the crooks, but I do have some bitterness in me:

I am bitter that the laws and regulations that are in place to prevent this type of damage were not enforced. I am bitter that the politicians and corrupt bankers, along with the greedy and foolish borrowers who apparently comprise their constituency, are attempting to make me and every other responsible citizen subsidize their greed and foolishness. I was mightily annoyed that the sound advice that was offered to these fools went unheeded, and I was especially annoyed at the attitudes of many of the bulls when presented with data and analysis that clearly indicated they were playing with fire. I retain a certain amount of bitterness at the attitude of entitlement that these idiots display, now blaming their predicament on the media and claiming this downturn was created by the blogs and the resetting of ARM rates only for the subprime borrowers. Yeah, the fact that these fools continue to bask in their ignorance and refuse to acknowledge the simplest of truths is indeed cause for some bitterness.

It is true that most of the regulars on this forum are bears right now, but it also true that most of them are actively watching what’s going on so they can put on their bull costume at the right time. I don’t see that as having a negative outlook; quite the contrary, I see it as having a very positive outlook and making the best of a horrible situation that was created by others.

Here it is, cuz – it ain’t what you used to “own” that counts, it’s what you can keep.

[lendingbubblecontinues]

to the OP- you said:

“without federal intervention, we will be facing an economic meltdown, which will eclipse the 1930’s”

sounds like the seeds of prosperity have already been sewn…why not go out and buy a few more houses;)?

meanwhile, I am completely content renting the home I am in, knowing that my landlords are stuck on the mousewheel with very little hope of getting off.

Christmas has come early for my family.

Let the Schadenfreude continue into 2008 and beyond!!!!!

[lendingbubblecontinues]

to the OP- you said:

“without federal intervention, we will be facing an economic meltdown, which will eclipse the 1930’s”

sounds like the seeds of prosperity have already been sewn…why not go out and buy a few more houses;)?

meanwhile, I am completely content renting the home I am in, knowing that my landlords are stuck on the mousewheel with very little hope of getting off.

Christmas has come early for my family.

Let the Schadenfreude continue into 2008 and beyond!!!!!

[lendingbubblecontinues]

to the OP- you said:

“without federal intervention, we will be facing an economic meltdown, which will eclipse the 1930’s”

sounds like the seeds of prosperity have already been sewn…why not go out and buy a few more houses;)?

meanwhile, I am completely content renting the home I am in, knowing that my landlords are stuck on the mousewheel with very little hope of getting off.

Christmas has come early for my family.

Let the Schadenfreude continue into 2008 and beyond!!!!!

[lendingbubblecontinues]

to the OP- you said:

“without federal intervention, we will be facing an economic meltdown, which will eclipse the 1930’s”

sounds like the seeds of prosperity have already been sewn…why not go out and buy a few more houses;)?

meanwhile, I am completely content renting the home I am in, knowing that my landlords are stuck on the mousewheel with very little hope of getting off.

Christmas has come early for my family.

Let the Schadenfreude continue into 2008 and beyond!!!!!

[NotCranky]

What doesn’t makes sense to me MPO, is that you came here disgruntled, to hate and yell loser to the alleged, bitter, loser hating, losers. What is that all about? You have brought a heavy dose negativity yourself . Are you for or against that?

I was bitter too. Too many shenanigans in the country over one of the most key industries, real estate, that plays such a vital role in the economy and peoples individual lives is a problem. When you have a farce of this scale causing convulsions in the economy and the lives of individuals from every sector that’s something to get a little upset about.
I don’t like the “yeah they are hurt like I have been stuff”. Truth be told it doesn’t bother me too much because I am really not hurt by the bubble on account of my real estate ownership or lack of. I do more or less empathize with both camps, those that overpaid or lost money on securites, and those that got priced out or put on the sidelines by a combination of a stupid market and a rational brain. I think those that don’t own are as justified in being as angry as anyone else over this scandal and the resultant teetering economy.The position of “renter” could be considered just one factor to their level of angst. You make me think that you are also hurting, for one reason related or another, Sorry about that.
For many, the possibility of affordable housing in an area where they can hopefully maximize their education and skills, is a bright spot. I think they would tend to get a little excited about that. I think many of the people you are unhappy with on this blog are filling those shoes. Give them a break if they don’t do it gracefully.

[NotCranky]

What doesn’t makes sense to me MPO, is that you came here disgruntled, to hate and yell loser to the alleged, bitter, loser hating, losers. What is that all about? You have brought a heavy dose negativity yourself . Are you for or against that?

I was bitter too. Too many shenanigans in the country over one of the most key industries, real estate, that plays such a vital role in the economy and peoples individual lives is a problem. When you have a farce of this scale causing convulsions in the economy and the lives of individuals from every sector that’s something to get a little upset about.
I don’t like the “yeah they are hurt like I have been stuff”. Truth be told it doesn’t bother me too much because I am really not hurt by the bubble on account of my real estate ownership or lack of. I do more or less empathize with both camps, those that overpaid or lost money on securites, and those that got priced out or put on the sidelines by a combination of a stupid market and a rational brain. I think those that don’t own are as justified in being as angry as anyone else over this scandal and the resultant teetering economy.The position of “renter” could be considered just one factor to their level of angst. You make me think that you are also hurting, for one reason related or another, Sorry about that.
For many, the possibility of affordable housing in an area where they can hopefully maximize their education and skills, is a bright spot. I think they would tend to get a little excited about that. I think many of the people you are unhappy with on this blog are filling those shoes. Give them a break if they don’t do it gracefully.

[NotCranky]

What doesn’t makes sense to me MPO, is that you came here disgruntled, to hate and yell loser to the alleged, bitter, loser hating, losers. What is that all about? You have brought a heavy dose negativity yourself . Are you for or against that?

I was bitter too. Too many shenanigans in the country over one of the most key industries, real estate, that plays such a vital role in the economy and peoples individual lives is a problem. When you have a farce of this scale causing convulsions in the economy and the lives of individuals from every sector that’s something to get a little upset about.
I don’t like the “yeah they are hurt like I have been stuff”. Truth be told it doesn’t bother me too much because I am really not hurt by the bubble on account of my real estate ownership or lack of. I do more or less empathize with both camps, those that overpaid or lost money on securites, and those that got priced out or put on the sidelines by a combination of a stupid market and a rational brain. I think those that don’t own are as justified in being as angry as anyone else over this scandal and the resultant teetering economy.The position of “renter” could be considered just one factor to their level of angst. You make me think that you are also hurting, for one reason related or another, Sorry about that.
For many, the possibility of affordable housing in an area where they can hopefully maximize their education and skills, is a bright spot. I think they would tend to get a little excited about that. I think many of the people you are unhappy with on this blog are filling those shoes. Give them a break if they don’t do it gracefully.

[NotCranky]

What doesn’t makes sense to me MPO, is that you came here disgruntled, to hate and yell loser to the alleged, bitter, loser hating, losers. What is that all about? You have brought a heavy dose negativity yourself . Are you for or against that?

I was bitter too. Too many shenanigans in the country over one of the most key industries, real estate, that plays such a vital role in the economy and peoples individual lives is a problem. When you have a farce of this scale causing convulsions in the economy and the lives of individuals from every sector that’s something to get a little upset about.
I don’t like the “yeah they are hurt like I have been stuff”. Truth be told it doesn’t bother me too much because I am really not hurt by the bubble on account of my real estate ownership or lack of. I do more or less empathize with both camps, those that overpaid or lost money on securites, and those that got priced out or put on the sidelines by a combination of a stupid market and a rational brain. I think those that don’t own are as justified in being as angry as anyone else over this scandal and the resultant teetering economy.The position of “renter” could be considered just one factor to their level of angst. You make me think that you are also hurting, for one reason related or another, Sorry about that.
For many, the possibility of affordable housing in an area where they can hopefully maximize their education and skills, is a bright spot. I think they would tend to get a little excited about that. I think many of the people you are unhappy with on this blog are filling those shoes. Give them a break if they don’t do it gracefully.

[NotCranky]

What doesn’t makes sense to me MPO, is that you came here disgruntled, to hate and yell loser to the alleged, bitter, loser hating, losers. What is that all about? You have brought a heavy dose negativity yourself . Are you for or against that?

I was bitter too. Too many shenanigans in the country over one of the most key industries, real estate, that plays such a vital role in the economy and peoples individual lives is a problem. When you have a farce of this scale causing convulsions in the economy and the lives of individuals from every sector that’s something to get a little upset about.
I don’t like the “yeah they are hurt like I have been stuff”. Truth be told it doesn’t bother me too much because I am really not hurt by the bubble on account of my real estate ownership or lack of. I do more or less empathize with both camps, those that overpaid or lost money on securites, and those that got priced out or put on the sidelines by a combination of a stupid market and a rational brain. I think those that don’t own are as justified in being as angry as anyone else over this scandal and the resultant teetering economy.The position of “renter” could be considered just one factor to their level of angst. You make me think that you are also hurting, for one reason related or another, Sorry about that.
For many, the possibility of affordable housing in an area where they can hopefully maximize their education and skills, is a bright spot. I think they would tend to get a little excited about that. I think many of the people you are unhappy with on this blog are filling those shoes. Give them a break if they don’t do it gracefully.

[hugo]

To VoZangre –

I though Hank Hill’s father was shinless with a small (sic) yureeter.

[hugo]

To VoZangre –

I though Hank Hill’s father was shinless with a small (sic) yureeter.

[hugo]

To VoZangre –

I though Hank Hill’s father was shinless with a small (sic) yureeter.

[hugo]

To VoZangre –

I though Hank Hill’s father was shinless with a small (sic) yureeter.

[GunDoctor]

“I know most of you are bitter because you don’t own homes. Thus, the tenor of this forum, which is generally caustic. Watching others suffer makes you feel a bit better about your situation as a renter.”

Lets be honest here. I don’t know anyone right now who is bitter because they don’t own a home. I do know some very bitter people right now though..lets count them up.

bitter home buyers who waaaaay overpaid and are done like dinner.

bitter RE agents
bitter loan Companies
bitter investors.
bitter CEO’s…who are no longer CEO.
bitter builders
bitter bankrupt banks

on and on and on…..

Yep the more I look around the more I would say that there are NO bitter renters. In fact the situation has reversed with the Bitter Buyers wishing they were renters instead.

As far as how I care about being a renter and watching buyers suffer. I feel the same as when I watched them rake in all that money. I was happy for them…Really. I am just as happy to watch those phoney prices and gains drift back down to reality. Easy come, easy go. Just like Vegas!

I was never bitter renting…I was bitter watching my fellow countrymen, and leadership get greedy and let this thing get so far out of control that we now ALL must suffer. The brakes should have been put on long ago. That sir make me bitter

[GunDoctor]

“I know most of you are bitter because you don’t own homes. Thus, the tenor of this forum, which is generally caustic. Watching others suffer makes you feel a bit better about your situation as a renter.”

Lets be honest here. I don’t know anyone right now who is bitter because they don’t own a home. I do know some very bitter people right now though..lets count them up.

bitter home buyers who waaaaay overpaid and are done like dinner.

bitter RE agents
bitter loan Companies
bitter investors.
bitter CEO’s…who are no longer CEO.
bitter builders
bitter bankrupt banks

on and on and on…..

Yep the more I look around the more I would say that there are NO bitter renters. In fact the situation has reversed with the Bitter Buyers wishing they were renters instead.

As far as how I care about being a renter and watching buyers suffer. I feel the same as when I watched them rake in all that money. I was happy for them…Really. I am just as happy to watch those phoney prices and gains drift back down to reality. Easy come, easy go. Just like Vegas!

I was never bitter renting…I was bitter watching my fellow countrymen, and leadership get greedy and let this thing get so far out of control that we now ALL must suffer. The brakes should have been put on long ago. That sir make me bitter

[GunDoctor]

“I know most of you are bitter because you don’t own homes. Thus, the tenor of this forum, which is generally caustic. Watching others suffer makes you feel a bit better about your situation as a renter.”

Lets be honest here. I don’t know anyone right now who is bitter because they don’t own a home. I do know some very bitter people right now though..lets count them up.

bitter home buyers who waaaaay overpaid and are done like dinner.

bitter RE agents
bitter loan Companies
bitter investors.
bitter CEO’s…who are no longer CEO.
bitter builders
bitter bankrupt banks

on and on and on…..

Yep the more I look around the more I would say that there are NO bitter renters. In fact the situation has reversed with the Bitter Buyers wishing they were renters instead.

As far as how I care about being a renter and watching buyers suffer. I feel the same as when I watched them rake in all that money. I was happy for them…Really. I am just as happy to watch those phoney prices and gains drift back down to reality. Easy come, easy go. Just like Vegas!

I was never bitter renting…I was bitter watching my fellow countrymen, and leadership get greedy and let this thing get so far out of control that we now ALL must suffer. The brakes should have been put on long ago. That sir make me bitter

[GunDoctor]

“I know most of you are bitter because you don’t own homes. Thus, the tenor of this forum, which is generally caustic. Watching others suffer makes you feel a bit better about your situation as a renter.”

Lets be honest here. I don’t know anyone right now who is bitter because they don’t own a home. I do know some very bitter people right now though..lets count them up.

bitter home buyers who waaaaay overpaid and are done like dinner.

bitter RE agents
bitter loan Companies
bitter investors.
bitter CEO’s…who are no longer CEO.
bitter builders
bitter bankrupt banks

on and on and on…..

Yep the more I look around the more I would say that there are NO bitter renters. In fact the situation has reversed with the Bitter Buyers wishing they were renters instead.

As far as how I care about being a renter and watching buyers suffer. I feel the same as when I watched them rake in all that money. I was happy for them…Really. I am just as happy to watch those phoney prices and gains drift back down to reality. Easy come, easy go. Just like Vegas!

I was never bitter renting…I was bitter watching my fellow countrymen, and leadership get greedy and let this thing get so far out of control that we now ALL must suffer. The brakes should have been put on long ago. That sir make me bitter

[The OC Scam]

“BTW did you notice the new big sellers this year at $150 GPS systems instead of $3000 LCD HDTVs?”

People need to know where they are going!!! They are lost without the ATM machine

[The OC Scam]

“BTW did you notice the new big sellers this year at $150 GPS systems instead of $3000 LCD HDTVs?”

People need to know where they are going!!! They are lost without the ATM machine

[The OC Scam]

“BTW did you notice the new big sellers this year at $150 GPS systems instead of $3000 LCD HDTVs?”

People need to know where they are going!!! They are lost without the ATM machine

[The OC Scam]

“BTW did you notice the new big sellers this year at $150 GPS systems instead of $3000 LCD HDTVs?”

People need to know where they are going!!! They are lost without the ATM machine

[The OC Scam]

“BTW did you notice the new big sellers this year at $150 GPS systems instead of $3000 LCD HDTVs?”

People need to know where they are going!!! They are lost without the ATM machine

[barnaby33]

What I find fascinating here is the trollish nature of this thread. MPO/Dingo, I haven’t seen you post before. That is not to say that you haven’t, I just haven’t seen you. So for you to be able to come here and whip up such a frenzy is fascinating to me. You didn’t write anything that hasn’t been said before. Nothing in your post was much more than a snide and bitter remark and yet you really hit a chord. It takes quite a barb to get bugs worked up like that.

I noticed in one of your posts that you had taken advantage of the bubble, but got out in early 04 on your most vulnerable properties. Now that shows quite a bit of prescience. Most people were blissfully unaware, sans this community and a few others, of how inflated the bubble had become. If you were aware of the bubble, and how severely inflated it was, How can you now take the position that wishing for a return to normalcy is some Chinese curse? After all the subtext of your, “careful what you wish for,” comment is that we all just might get it.

That takes some pretty good moral flexibility in my book, but its a rather small book, maybe you read it?

Josh

[barnaby33]

What I find fascinating here is the trollish nature of this thread. MPO/Dingo, I haven’t seen you post before. That is not to say that you haven’t, I just haven’t seen you. So for you to be able to come here and whip up such a frenzy is fascinating to me. You didn’t write anything that hasn’t been said before. Nothing in your post was much more than a snide and bitter remark and yet you really hit a chord. It takes quite a barb to get bugs worked up like that.

I noticed in one of your posts that you had taken advantage of the bubble, but got out in early 04 on your most vulnerable properties. Now that shows quite a bit of prescience. Most people were blissfully unaware, sans this community and a few others, of how inflated the bubble had become. If you were aware of the bubble, and how severely inflated it was, How can you now take the position that wishing for a return to normalcy is some Chinese curse? After all the subtext of your, “careful what you wish for,” comment is that we all just might get it.

That takes some pretty good moral flexibility in my book, but its a rather small book, maybe you read it?

Josh

[barnaby33]

What I find fascinating here is the trollish nature of this thread. MPO/Dingo, I haven’t seen you post before. That is not to say that you haven’t, I just haven’t seen you. So for you to be able to come here and whip up such a frenzy is fascinating to me. You didn’t write anything that hasn’t been said before. Nothing in your post was much more than a snide and bitter remark and yet you really hit a chord. It takes quite a barb to get bugs worked up like that.

I noticed in one of your posts that you had taken advantage of the bubble, but got out in early 04 on your most vulnerable properties. Now that shows quite a bit of prescience. Most people were blissfully unaware, sans this community and a few others, of how inflated the bubble had become. If you were aware of the bubble, and how severely inflated it was, How can you now take the position that wishing for a return to normalcy is some Chinese curse? After all the subtext of your, “careful what you wish for,” comment is that we all just might get it.

That takes some pretty good moral flexibility in my book, but its a rather small book, maybe you read it?

Josh

[barnaby33]

What I find fascinating here is the trollish nature of this thread. MPO/Dingo, I haven’t seen you post before. That is not to say that you haven’t, I just haven’t seen you. So for you to be able to come here and whip up such a frenzy is fascinating to me. You didn’t write anything that hasn’t been said before. Nothing in your post was much more than a snide and bitter remark and yet you really hit a chord. It takes quite a barb to get bugs worked up like that.

I noticed in one of your posts that you had taken advantage of the bubble, but got out in early 04 on your most vulnerable properties. Now that shows quite a bit of prescience. Most people were blissfully unaware, sans this community and a few others, of how inflated the bubble had become. If you were aware of the bubble, and how severely inflated it was, How can you now take the position that wishing for a return to normalcy is some Chinese curse? After all the subtext of your, “careful what you wish for,” comment is that we all just might get it.

That takes some pretty good moral flexibility in my book, but its a rather small book, maybe you read it?

Josh

[barnaby33]

What I find fascinating here is the trollish nature of this thread. MPO/Dingo, I haven’t seen you post before. That is not to say that you haven’t, I just haven’t seen you. So for you to be able to come here and whip up such a frenzy is fascinating to me. You didn’t write anything that hasn’t been said before. Nothing in your post was much more than a snide and bitter remark and yet you really hit a chord. It takes quite a barb to get bugs worked up like that.

I noticed in one of your posts that you had taken advantage of the bubble, but got out in early 04 on your most vulnerable properties. Now that shows quite a bit of prescience. Most people were blissfully unaware, sans this community and a few others, of how inflated the bubble had become. If you were aware of the bubble, and how severely inflated it was, How can you now take the position that wishing for a return to normalcy is some Chinese curse? After all the subtext of your, “careful what you wish for,” comment is that we all just might get it.

That takes some pretty good moral flexibility in my book, but its a rather small book, maybe you read it?

Josh

[Ren]

The original poster is the most negative in the thread, which tells me he’s the bitter one, for whatever reason. I think I’m typical of the readers here. My wife and I rent in Del Mar and are VERY happy about our situation. Zero debt, well into six figures saved, great income, great credit. Not rich but far from poor. Compare that to a typical SD home owner today, and see which one is bitter.

[Ren]

The original poster is the most negative in the thread, which tells me he’s the bitter one, for whatever reason. I think I’m typical of the readers here. My wife and I rent in Del Mar and are VERY happy about our situation. Zero debt, well into six figures saved, great income, great credit. Not rich but far from poor. Compare that to a typical SD home owner today, and see which one is bitter.

[Ren]

The original poster is the most negative in the thread, which tells me he’s the bitter one, for whatever reason. I think I’m typical of the readers here. My wife and I rent in Del Mar and are VERY happy about our situation. Zero debt, well into six figures saved, great income, great credit. Not rich but far from poor. Compare that to a typical SD home owner today, and see which one is bitter.

[Ren]

The original poster is the most negative in the thread, which tells me he’s the bitter one, for whatever reason. I think I’m typical of the readers here. My wife and I rent in Del Mar and are VERY happy about our situation. Zero debt, well into six figures saved, great income, great credit. Not rich but far from poor. Compare that to a typical SD home owner today, and see which one is bitter.

[Ren]

The original poster is the most negative in the thread, which tells me he’s the bitter one, for whatever reason. I think I’m typical of the readers here. My wife and I rent in Del Mar and are VERY happy about our situation. Zero debt, well into six figures saved, great income, great credit. Not rich but far from poor. Compare that to a typical SD home owner today, and see which one is bitter.

[Coronita]

Multiplepropert,

"Tis the season to be a troll".

 

Actually, your post reminds me of my first post a few years back.  I pretty much posted the first time with the tag line "sour grapes", just to see how damn passionate people feel on this board

A couple of things I found out along the way. This blog isn't about sour renters. Yes, there are a few doomsday people here.  The nice thing about this blog is it highlights that their is hope in this country filled with overconsumptious, over leveraged, knee deep in debt people. And the nice thing is that these folks are all from different economic backgrounds, from ultra rich people, to just your average joe worker. I see a lot of average joe workers here through financial responsibility and conservation who are going to be just well off and fine because they exercise an amount of constraint.

The rest of average america, well it's going to be a pretty tough life for them down the road.

 

Is it fair? No, but life is not fair. Wake up. You want a bail out. Yes, you might not get that killer beach pad, but you won't be standing in a bread line with your kids like I did with my parents as a child.

I think you're missing the point.

1) The bailout is to help the banks, not average joe.

2) There probably will be a time in the future when people with their kids will be standing in a breadline. The only difference that the bailouts will make is to delay this pain. Also, all this bailout also is going to put a load onto other people who have been financially responsible via taxes, dragging them into the mud and possibly forcingthem to stand in the same breadline. As far as I'm concerned, the pain is going to happen. Might as well be now versus a few years down the road.

 

Anyway, enjoy your new home you recently purchased. Hope the home satisfy your material needs and offsets how much more you're going to be forking over versus anyone that purchases down the road. (and no, I'm not a bitter renter).

[drunkle]

i suspect alot of bitter or gullible renters bought in at or around the peak due to the seemingly ever increasing prices, ever increasing availability of free money, ever increasing pressure from grocery store clerks and infomercials talking about “you loser! look at me, look at these beautiful women! you be like me, you stop being loser!” those bitter/gullible renters are now bitter debtors.

you gotta be a total moron to think that a “bail out” will succeed in achieving whatever goal you’re praying for it to achieve. it won’t. the bail out is not for you. there’s only so many life boats and you’re not invited.

if a bail out could possibly do what you hope it would do, why wouldn’t it just be standard policy? if everyone could live on the dole and not be responsible or productive citizens and yet live a life of luxury, why bother with capitalism and competition? education and innovation?

[Multiplepropertyowner]

Alright, I need to get back to caring for all my multiple properties and have no more time to post, for I am counting all of the money I make from rents.:)
P.S. There were some really good insights brought up in this conversation. The usual suspects always have something good to say Bugs, Rustico, Sdrealtor, blackbox and more.
In the end I still believe most of the negative pub this site gets comes from people who missed out on the upswing.
I also don’t like a bail out, but in the end I think it will help on softening the landing. I would actually like to see the market go down another 20% as I am hoping to buy in Leucadia in the next 5 years and the properties which I do have are long term holds. Oh, and one more thing, the only bread line I ever stood in with my parents as a kid was at the buffet at the Rancho Santa Fe Inn.
Merry Christmas,
Multiplepropertytroll,

[dbapig]

dba
Sorry but I had to log in when I saw this comment.
What a jackxxx you are. You tell people to quit whining about bailout and than you brag about ‘multiple properties’ and than how you are going to profit from others’ suffering…

wow, you may be OLD but you are as young as a preschooler emotionally…

Sorry for rant.

[lendingbubblecontinues]

to OP:

You accuse us of gloating, then you go on to gloat about your childhood spent in line for brunch in RSF.

So…way to go Ricky Schroeder, living the life of a “Silver Spoons” kid who had everything handed to you….you are yet another example of a San Diegan born on third, yet thinks he hit a triple.

May your parents learn to see you for who you really are and cut you out of the will…

How’s that for Merry Christmas? *$*#&@+!

[ibjames]

Rustico,

I haven’t read all the banter so far, but I’ll help you out with E-Balling. It’s basically stating in a forum that you have enough cash to “buy you out several times” even though there is no way to prove it.

He’s a “baller” on the internet. Essentially an E-Baller.

There are also E-Thugs, Attentionwhores, etc. The list goes on.

Though I loved it that you didn’t know and were inquiring without inquiring ha ha

[ibjames]

Rustico,

I haven’t read all the banter so far, but I’ll help you out with E-Balling. It’s basically stating in a forum that you have enough cash to “buy you out several times” even though there is no way to prove it.

He’s a “baller” on the internet. Essentially an E-Baller.

There are also E-Thugs, Attentionwhores, etc. The list goes on.

Though I loved it that you didn’t know and were inquiring without inquiring ha ha

[ibjames]

Rustico,

I haven’t read all the banter so far, but I’ll help you out with E-Balling. It’s basically stating in a forum that you have enough cash to “buy you out several times” even though there is no way to prove it.

He’s a “baller” on the internet. Essentially an E-Baller.

There are also E-Thugs, Attentionwhores, etc. The list goes on.

Though I loved it that you didn’t know and were inquiring without inquiring ha ha

[ibjames]

Rustico,

I haven’t read all the banter so far, but I’ll help you out with E-Balling. It’s basically stating in a forum that you have enough cash to “buy you out several times” even though there is no way to prove it.

He’s a “baller” on the internet. Essentially an E-Baller.

There are also E-Thugs, Attentionwhores, etc. The list goes on.

Though I loved it that you didn’t know and were inquiring without inquiring ha ha

[ibjames]

Rustico,

I haven’t read all the banter so far, but I’ll help you out with E-Balling. It’s basically stating in a forum that you have enough cash to “buy you out several times” even though there is no way to prove it.

He’s a “baller” on the internet. Essentially an E-Baller.

There are also E-Thugs, Attentionwhores, etc. The list goes on.

Though I loved it that you didn’t know and were inquiring without inquiring ha ha

[lendingbubblecontinues]

to OP:

You accuse us of gloating, then you go on to gloat about your childhood spent in line for brunch in RSF.

So…way to go Ricky Schroeder, living the life of a “Silver Spoons” kid who had everything handed to you….you are yet another example of a San Diegan born on third, yet thinks he hit a triple.

May your parents learn to see you for who you really are and cut you out of the will…

How’s that for Merry Christmas? *$*#&@+!

[lendingbubblecontinues]

to OP:

You accuse us of gloating, then you go on to gloat about your childhood spent in line for brunch in RSF.

So…way to go Ricky Schroeder, living the life of a “Silver Spoons” kid who had everything handed to you….you are yet another example of a San Diegan born on third, yet thinks he hit a triple.

May your parents learn to see you for who you really are and cut you out of the will…

How’s that for Merry Christmas? *$*#&@+!

[lendingbubblecontinues]

to OP:

You accuse us of gloating, then you go on to gloat about your childhood spent in line for brunch in RSF.

So…way to go Ricky Schroeder, living the life of a “Silver Spoons” kid who had everything handed to you….you are yet another example of a San Diegan born on third, yet thinks he hit a triple.

May your parents learn to see you for who you really are and cut you out of the will…

How’s that for Merry Christmas? *$*#&@+!

[lendingbubblecontinues]

to OP:

You accuse us of gloating, then you go on to gloat about your childhood spent in line for brunch in RSF.

So…way to go Ricky Schroeder, living the life of a “Silver Spoons” kid who had everything handed to you….you are yet another example of a San Diegan born on third, yet thinks he hit a triple.

May your parents learn to see you for who you really are and cut you out of the will…

How’s that for Merry Christmas? *$*#&@+!

[dbapig]

dba
Sorry but I had to log in when I saw this comment.
What a jackxxx you are. You tell people to quit whining about bailout and than you brag about ‘multiple properties’ and than how you are going to profit from others’ suffering…

wow, you may be OLD but you are as young as a preschooler emotionally…

Sorry for rant.

[dbapig]

dba
Sorry but I had to log in when I saw this comment.
What a jackxxx you are. You tell people to quit whining about bailout and than you brag about ‘multiple properties’ and than how you are going to profit from others’ suffering…

wow, you may be OLD but you are as young as a preschooler emotionally…

Sorry for rant.

[dbapig]

dba
Sorry but I had to log in when I saw this comment.
What a jackxxx you are. You tell people to quit whining about bailout and than you brag about ‘multiple properties’ and than how you are going to profit from others’ suffering…

wow, you may be OLD but you are as young as a preschooler emotionally…

Sorry for rant.

[dbapig]

dba
Sorry but I had to log in when I saw this comment.
What a jackxxx you are. You tell people to quit whining about bailout and than you brag about ‘multiple properties’ and than how you are going to profit from others’ suffering…

wow, you may be OLD but you are as young as a preschooler emotionally…

Sorry for rant.

[Multiplepropertyowner]

Alright, I need to get back to caring for all my multiple properties and have no more time to post, for I am counting all of the money I make from rents.:)
P.S. There were some really good insights brought up in this conversation. The usual suspects always have something good to say Bugs, Rustico, Sdrealtor, blackbox and more.
In the end I still believe most of the negative pub this site gets comes from people who missed out on the upswing.
I also don’t like a bail out, but in the end I think it will help on softening the landing. I would actually like to see the market go down another 20% as I am hoping to buy in Leucadia in the next 5 years and the properties which I do have are long term holds. Oh, and one more thing, the only bread line I ever stood in with my parents as a kid was at the buffet at the Rancho Santa Fe Inn.
Merry Christmas,
Multiplepropertytroll,

[Multiplepropertyowner]

Alright, I need to get back to caring for all my multiple properties and have no more time to post, for I am counting all of the money I make from rents.:)
P.S. There were some really good insights brought up in this conversation. The usual suspects always have something good to say Bugs, Rustico, Sdrealtor, blackbox and more.
In the end I still believe most of the negative pub this site gets comes from people who missed out on the upswing.
I also don’t like a bail out, but in the end I think it will help on softening the landing. I would actually like to see the market go down another 20% as I am hoping to buy in Leucadia in the next 5 years and the properties which I do have are long term holds. Oh, and one more thing, the only bread line I ever stood in with my parents as a kid was at the buffet at the Rancho Santa Fe Inn.
Merry Christmas,
Multiplepropertytroll,

[Multiplepropertyowner]

Alright, I need to get back to caring for all my multiple properties and have no more time to post, for I am counting all of the money I make from rents.:)
P.S. There were some really good insights brought up in this conversation. The usual suspects always have something good to say Bugs, Rustico, Sdrealtor, blackbox and more.
In the end I still believe most of the negative pub this site gets comes from people who missed out on the upswing.
I also don’t like a bail out, but in the end I think it will help on softening the landing. I would actually like to see the market go down another 20% as I am hoping to buy in Leucadia in the next 5 years and the properties which I do have are long term holds. Oh, and one more thing, the only bread line I ever stood in with my parents as a kid was at the buffet at the Rancho Santa Fe Inn.
Merry Christmas,
Multiplepropertytroll,

[Multiplepropertyowner]

Alright, I need to get back to caring for all my multiple properties and have no more time to post, for I am counting all of the money I make from rents.:)
P.S. There were some really good insights brought up in this conversation. The usual suspects always have something good to say Bugs, Rustico, Sdrealtor, blackbox and more.
In the end I still believe most of the negative pub this site gets comes from people who missed out on the upswing.
I also don’t like a bail out, but in the end I think it will help on softening the landing. I would actually like to see the market go down another 20% as I am hoping to buy in Leucadia in the next 5 years and the properties which I do have are long term holds. Oh, and one more thing, the only bread line I ever stood in with my parents as a kid was at the buffet at the Rancho Santa Fe Inn.
Merry Christmas,
Multiplepropertytroll,

[drunkle]

i suspect alot of bitter or gullible renters bought in at or around the peak due to the seemingly ever increasing prices, ever increasing availability of free money, ever increasing pressure from grocery store clerks and infomercials talking about “you loser! look at me, look at these beautiful women! you be like me, you stop being loser!” those bitter/gullible renters are now bitter debtors.

you gotta be a total moron to think that a “bail out” will succeed in achieving whatever goal you’re praying for it to achieve. it won’t. the bail out is not for you. there’s only so many life boats and you’re not invited.

if a bail out could possibly do what you hope it would do, why wouldn’t it just be standard policy? if everyone could live on the dole and not be responsible or productive citizens and yet live a life of luxury, why bother with capitalism and competition? education and innovation?

[drunkle]

i suspect alot of bitter or gullible renters bought in at or around the peak due to the seemingly ever increasing prices, ever increasing availability of free money, ever increasing pressure from grocery store clerks and infomercials talking about “you loser! look at me, look at these beautiful women! you be like me, you stop being loser!” those bitter/gullible renters are now bitter debtors.

you gotta be a total moron to think that a “bail out” will succeed in achieving whatever goal you’re praying for it to achieve. it won’t. the bail out is not for you. there’s only so many life boats and you’re not invited.

if a bail out could possibly do what you hope it would do, why wouldn’t it just be standard policy? if everyone could live on the dole and not be responsible or productive citizens and yet live a life of luxury, why bother with capitalism and competition? education and innovation?

[drunkle]

i suspect alot of bitter or gullible renters bought in at or around the peak due to the seemingly ever increasing prices, ever increasing availability of free money, ever increasing pressure from grocery store clerks and infomercials talking about “you loser! look at me, look at these beautiful women! you be like me, you stop being loser!” those bitter/gullible renters are now bitter debtors.

you gotta be a total moron to think that a “bail out” will succeed in achieving whatever goal you’re praying for it to achieve. it won’t. the bail out is not for you. there’s only so many life boats and you’re not invited.

if a bail out could possibly do what you hope it would do, why wouldn’t it just be standard policy? if everyone could live on the dole and not be responsible or productive citizens and yet live a life of luxury, why bother with capitalism and competition? education and innovation?

[drunkle]

i suspect alot of bitter or gullible renters bought in at or around the peak due to the seemingly ever increasing prices, ever increasing availability of free money, ever increasing pressure from grocery store clerks and infomercials talking about “you loser! look at me, look at these beautiful women! you be like me, you stop being loser!” those bitter/gullible renters are now bitter debtors.

you gotta be a total moron to think that a “bail out” will succeed in achieving whatever goal you’re praying for it to achieve. it won’t. the bail out is not for you. there’s only so many life boats and you’re not invited.

if a bail out could possibly do what you hope it would do, why wouldn’t it just be standard policy? if everyone could live on the dole and not be responsible or productive citizens and yet live a life of luxury, why bother with capitalism and competition? education and innovation?

[Coronita]

Multiplepropert,

"Tis the season to be a troll".

 

Actually, your post reminds me of my first post a few years back.  I pretty much posted the first time with the tag line "sour grapes", just to see how damn passionate people feel on this board

A couple of things I found out along the way. This blog isn't about sour renters. Yes, there are a few doomsday people here.  The nice thing about this blog is it highlights that their is hope in this country filled with overconsumptious, over leveraged, knee deep in debt people. And the nice thing is that these folks are all from different economic backgrounds, from ultra rich people, to just your average joe worker. I see a lot of average joe workers here through financial responsibility and conservation who are going to be just well off and fine because they exercise an amount of constraint.

The rest of average america, well it's going to be a pretty tough life for them down the road.

 

Is it fair? No, but life is not fair. Wake up. You want a bail out. Yes, you might not get that killer beach pad, but you won't be standing in a bread line with your kids like I did with my parents as a child.

I think you're missing the point.

1) The bailout is to help the banks, not average joe.

2) There probably will be a time in the future when people with their kids will be standing in a breadline. The only difference that the bailouts will make is to delay this pain. Also, all this bailout also is going to put a load onto other people who have been financially responsible via taxes, dragging them into the mud and possibly forcingthem to stand in the same breadline. As far as I'm concerned, the pain is going to happen. Might as well be now versus a few years down the road.

 

Anyway, enjoy your new home you recently purchased. Hope the home satisfy your material needs and offsets how much more you're going to be forking over versus anyone that purchases down the road. (and no, I'm not a bitter renter).

[Coronita]

Multiplepropert,

"Tis the season to be a troll".

 

Actually, your post reminds me of my first post a few years back.  I pretty much posted the first time with the tag line "sour grapes", just to see how damn passionate people feel on this board

A couple of things I found out along the way. This blog isn't about sour renters. Yes, there are a few doomsday people here.  The nice thing about this blog is it highlights that their is hope in this country filled with overconsumptious, over leveraged, knee deep in debt people. And the nice thing is that these folks are all from different economic backgrounds, from ultra rich people, to just your average joe worker. I see a lot of average joe workers here through financial responsibility and conservation who are going to be just well off and fine because they exercise an amount of constraint.

The rest of average america, well it's going to be a pretty tough life for them down the road.

 

Is it fair? No, but life is not fair. Wake up. You want a bail out. Yes, you might not get that killer beach pad, but you won't be standing in a bread line with your kids like I did with my parents as a child.

I think you're missing the point.

1) The bailout is to help the banks, not average joe.

2) There probably will be a time in the future when people with their kids will be standing in a breadline. The only difference that the bailouts will make is to delay this pain. Also, all this bailout also is going to put a load onto other people who have been financially responsible via taxes, dragging them into the mud and possibly forcingthem to stand in the same breadline. As far as I'm concerned, the pain is going to happen. Might as well be now versus a few years down the road.

 

Anyway, enjoy your new home you recently purchased. Hope the home satisfy your material needs and offsets how much more you're going to be forking over versus anyone that purchases down the road. (and no, I'm not a bitter renter).

[Coronita]

Multiplepropert,

"Tis the season to be a troll".

 

Actually, your post reminds me of my first post a few years back.  I pretty much posted the first time with the tag line "sour grapes", just to see how damn passionate people feel on this board

A couple of things I found out along the way. This blog isn't about sour renters. Yes, there are a few doomsday people here.  The nice thing about this blog is it highlights that their is hope in this country filled with overconsumptious, over leveraged, knee deep in debt people. And the nice thing is that these folks are all from different economic backgrounds, from ultra rich people, to just your average joe worker. I see a lot of average joe workers here through financial responsibility and conservation who are going to be just well off and fine because they exercise an amount of constraint.

The rest of average america, well it's going to be a pretty tough life for them down the road.

 

Is it fair? No, but life is not fair. Wake up. You want a bail out. Yes, you might not get that killer beach pad, but you won't be standing in a bread line with your kids like I did with my parents as a child.

I think you're missing the point.

1) The bailout is to help the banks, not average joe.

2) There probably will be a time in the future when people with their kids will be standing in a breadline. The only difference that the bailouts will make is to delay this pain. Also, all this bailout also is going to put a load onto other people who have been financially responsible via taxes, dragging them into the mud and possibly forcingthem to stand in the same breadline. As far as I'm concerned, the pain is going to happen. Might as well be now versus a few years down the road.

 

Anyway, enjoy your new home you recently purchased. Hope the home satisfy your material needs and offsets how much more you're going to be forking over versus anyone that purchases down the road. (and no, I'm not a bitter renter).

[Coronita]

Multiplepropert,

"Tis the season to be a troll".

 

Actually, your post reminds me of my first post a few years back.  I pretty much posted the first time with the tag line "sour grapes", just to see how damn passionate people feel on this board

A couple of things I found out along the way. This blog isn't about sour renters. Yes, there are a few doomsday people here.  The nice thing about this blog is it highlights that their is hope in this country filled with overconsumptious, over leveraged, knee deep in debt people. And the nice thing is that these folks are all from different economic backgrounds, from ultra rich people, to just your average joe worker. I see a lot of average joe workers here through financial responsibility and conservation who are going to be just well off and fine because they exercise an amount of constraint.

The rest of average america, well it's going to be a pretty tough life for them down the road.

 

Is it fair? No, but life is not fair. Wake up. You want a bail out. Yes, you might not get that killer beach pad, but you won't be standing in a bread line with your kids like I did with my parents as a child.

I think you're missing the point.

1) The bailout is to help the banks, not average joe.

2) There probably will be a time in the future when people with their kids will be standing in a breadline. The only difference that the bailouts will make is to delay this pain. Also, all this bailout also is going to put a load onto other people who have been financially responsible via taxes, dragging them into the mud and possibly forcingthem to stand in the same breadline. As far as I'm concerned, the pain is going to happen. Might as well be now versus a few years down the road.

 

Anyway, enjoy your new home you recently purchased. Hope the home satisfy your material needs and offsets how much more you're going to be forking over versus anyone that purchases down the road. (and no, I'm not a bitter renter).

[cr]

It diminishes the respectability of this site and it’s valuable contributors when people like this come along and cry foul to anyone who thinks a housing correction is in order, yet is guilty of their own accusations, while showing nothing but complete ignorance in making such ludicrous claims.

I couldn’t be happier as a renter, as long as my landlord doen’t start gloating about having stood in breadlines as a child, and call me bitter about not being one of the 2 million people recieving default notices.

Here’s the number MPO – 1-888-995-HOPE, it’s probably busy.

[cr]

It diminishes the respectability of this site and it’s valuable contributors when people like this come along and cry foul to anyone who thinks a housing correction is in order, yet is guilty of their own accusations, while showing nothing but complete ignorance in making such ludicrous claims.

I couldn’t be happier as a renter, as long as my landlord doen’t start gloating about having stood in breadlines as a child, and call me bitter about not being one of the 2 million people recieving default notices.

Here’s the number MPO – 1-888-995-HOPE, it’s probably busy.

[cr]

It diminishes the respectability of this site and it’s valuable contributors when people like this come along and cry foul to anyone who thinks a housing correction is in order, yet is guilty of their own accusations, while showing nothing but complete ignorance in making such ludicrous claims.

I couldn’t be happier as a renter, as long as my landlord doen’t start gloating about having stood in breadlines as a child, and call me bitter about not being one of the 2 million people recieving default notices.

Here’s the number MPO – 1-888-995-HOPE, it’s probably busy.

[cr]

It diminishes the respectability of this site and it’s valuable contributors when people like this come along and cry foul to anyone who thinks a housing correction is in order, yet is guilty of their own accusations, while showing nothing but complete ignorance in making such ludicrous claims.

I couldn’t be happier as a renter, as long as my landlord doen’t start gloating about having stood in breadlines as a child, and call me bitter about not being one of the 2 million people recieving default notices.

Here’s the number MPO – 1-888-995-HOPE, it’s probably busy.

[cr]

It diminishes the respectability of this site and it’s valuable contributors when people like this come along and cry foul to anyone who thinks a housing correction is in order, yet is guilty of their own accusations, while showing nothing but complete ignorance in making such ludicrous claims.

I couldn’t be happier as a renter, as long as my landlord doen’t start gloating about having stood in breadlines as a child, and call me bitter about not being one of the 2 million people recieving default notices.

Here’s the number MPO – 1-888-995-HOPE, it’s probably busy.

[lonestar2000]

I have no problem with a bailout that is fair to everyone.
Unfortunately this bailout is anything but.

[lonestar2000]

I have no problem with a bailout that is fair to everyone.
Unfortunately this bailout is anything but.

[lonestar2000]

I have no problem with a bailout that is fair to everyone.
Unfortunately this bailout is anything but.

[lonestar2000]

I have no problem with a bailout that is fair to everyone.
Unfortunately this bailout is anything but.

[lonestar2000]

I have no problem with a bailout that is fair to everyone.
Unfortunately this bailout is anything but.

[Author]

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