Proposition 23

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Shadowfax: I don’t think you’re a Leftie at all, in fact, like Gandalf and SK and afx, you’re one of the more intelligent, thoughtful and rational posters on the board. When I think of the word “liberal” (and not as a pejorative, but a compliment, mind you), you’re in that group.

But the point that observation makes is what’s actually sad. We’re now so polarized that the support of green/clean energy is now part of the Left versus Right rubric. And, those that have been heavily propagandized/indoctrinated, like BigGubment, immediately revert to form and begin slinging insults and invective when questioned objectively about something that needs to be economically viable before it can challenge existing energy sources.

I think nuke should be included in the green/clean tech category and I think we need to be able to actually assess how these technologies “pencil”, in terms of cost- and time-effectiveness (how much energy can be produced and at what cost and how quickly).

I would imagine someone like EconProf, who is an actual teacher of economics, can undoubtedly state it less baldly than I, but ever since turning green energy, AGW, and climate change into religion, we’ve been unable to have a serious discussion on the topic without accusations flying back and forth and any questioning turning into heresy.

This country has been promised an Energy Policy (capital E and capital P) since the Nixon Administration, but it hasn’t materialized. The hidden costs of import oil, especially in American blood, are unconscionably expensive, but what people like BigGubment don’t realize is that, without a realistic and cost-effective replacement, the discussion is moot.

[no_such_reality]

There are many changes that could be done, but that too requires a rational discussion of pros and cons.

For example, why are super efficient small diesels the norm in Europe? The answer is simple, the fuel expense due to taxes is much higher than here and hence the added cost of the diesel technology ‘pencils’.

And wallah, people buy and companies produce the high efficiency engines. Engines that are more efficient than the over-privileged get to drive in the HOV lane solo Green Annointed Priuses squeaking out a mere 50-60MPG.

Of course, those same engines cannot be imported to the US because… they don’t met our air standards.

We’ve been looking at solar for our house. It doesn’t pencil, but I might do it just to make the meter spin backward during the day. Then again, we’re new in the house so it maybe the abnormally cool summer tweaked the calcs. The new high efficiency HVAC system did pencil. That is already installed. Loving it and the variable speed super quiet blower.

Also loving the top loading high efficiency low water and low energy use washing machine. The old one was worn out and it was failing to spin. It’s almost creepy to look how little water is in the machine with a load compare to the prior machine.

Nukes, they make too much sense, but Three Mile Island and Chernobyl spooked too many.

Mass transit? Buses pencil, trains don’t. But you keep seeing trains getting pimped.

[no_such_reality]

There are many changes that could be done, but that too requires a rational discussion of pros and cons.

For example, why are super efficient small diesels the norm in Europe? The answer is simple, the fuel expense due to taxes is much higher than here and hence the added cost of the diesel technology ‘pencils’.

And wallah, people buy and companies produce the high efficiency engines. Engines that are more efficient than the over-privileged get to drive in the HOV lane solo Green Annointed Priuses squeaking out a mere 50-60MPG.

Of course, those same engines cannot be imported to the US because… they don’t met our air standards.

We’ve been looking at solar for our house. It doesn’t pencil, but I might do it just to make the meter spin backward during the day. Then again, we’re new in the house so it maybe the abnormally cool summer tweaked the calcs. The new high efficiency HVAC system did pencil. That is already installed. Loving it and the variable speed super quiet blower.

Also loving the top loading high efficiency low water and low energy use washing machine. The old one was worn out and it was failing to spin. It’s almost creepy to look how little water is in the machine with a load compare to the prior machine.

Nukes, they make too much sense, but Three Mile Island and Chernobyl spooked too many.

Mass transit? Buses pencil, trains don’t. But you keep seeing trains getting pimped.

[no_such_reality]

There are many changes that could be done, but that too requires a rational discussion of pros and cons.

For example, why are super efficient small diesels the norm in Europe? The answer is simple, the fuel expense due to taxes is much higher than here and hence the added cost of the diesel technology ‘pencils’.

And wallah, people buy and companies produce the high efficiency engines. Engines that are more efficient than the over-privileged get to drive in the HOV lane solo Green Annointed Priuses squeaking out a mere 50-60MPG.

Of course, those same engines cannot be imported to the US because… they don’t met our air standards.

We’ve been looking at solar for our house. It doesn’t pencil, but I might do it just to make the meter spin backward during the day. Then again, we’re new in the house so it maybe the abnormally cool summer tweaked the calcs. The new high efficiency HVAC system did pencil. That is already installed. Loving it and the variable speed super quiet blower.

Also loving the top loading high efficiency low water and low energy use washing machine. The old one was worn out and it was failing to spin. It’s almost creepy to look how little water is in the machine with a load compare to the prior machine.

Nukes, they make too much sense, but Three Mile Island and Chernobyl spooked too many.

Mass transit? Buses pencil, trains don’t. But you keep seeing trains getting pimped.

[no_such_reality]

There are many changes that could be done, but that too requires a rational discussion of pros and cons.

For example, why are super efficient small diesels the norm in Europe? The answer is simple, the fuel expense due to taxes is much higher than here and hence the added cost of the diesel technology ‘pencils’.

And wallah, people buy and companies produce the high efficiency engines. Engines that are more efficient than the over-privileged get to drive in the HOV lane solo Green Annointed Priuses squeaking out a mere 50-60MPG.

Of course, those same engines cannot be imported to the US because… they don’t met our air standards.

We’ve been looking at solar for our house. It doesn’t pencil, but I might do it just to make the meter spin backward during the day. Then again, we’re new in the house so it maybe the abnormally cool summer tweaked the calcs. The new high efficiency HVAC system did pencil. That is already installed. Loving it and the variable speed super quiet blower.

Also loving the top loading high efficiency low water and low energy use washing machine. The old one was worn out and it was failing to spin. It’s almost creepy to look how little water is in the machine with a load compare to the prior machine.

Nukes, they make too much sense, but Three Mile Island and Chernobyl spooked too many.

Mass transit? Buses pencil, trains don’t. But you keep seeing trains getting pimped.

[no_such_reality]

There are many changes that could be done, but that too requires a rational discussion of pros and cons.

For example, why are super efficient small diesels the norm in Europe? The answer is simple, the fuel expense due to taxes is much higher than here and hence the added cost of the diesel technology ‘pencils’.

And wallah, people buy and companies produce the high efficiency engines. Engines that are more efficient than the over-privileged get to drive in the HOV lane solo Green Annointed Priuses squeaking out a mere 50-60MPG.

Of course, those same engines cannot be imported to the US because… they don’t met our air standards.

We’ve been looking at solar for our house. It doesn’t pencil, but I might do it just to make the meter spin backward during the day. Then again, we’re new in the house so it maybe the abnormally cool summer tweaked the calcs. The new high efficiency HVAC system did pencil. That is already installed. Loving it and the variable speed super quiet blower.

Also loving the top loading high efficiency low water and low energy use washing machine. The old one was worn out and it was failing to spin. It’s almost creepy to look how little water is in the machine with a load compare to the prior machine.

Nukes, they make too much sense, but Three Mile Island and Chernobyl spooked too many.

Mass transit? Buses pencil, trains don’t. But you keep seeing trains getting pimped.

[afx114]

Wouldn’t renewables pencil better if we removed all of the subsidies that non-renewables have been enjoying for decades? People talk about the “cheapness” of non-renewable energy as if it is inherently cheap. It is not. Yet when someone tries to throw renewables a bone to get the ball rolling everyone cries about the costs despite the incredible costs we’re already paying to make and keep non-renewable energy cheap.

I’d like to see how things pencil on an even playing field. Sure, non-renewables will still come out cheaper, but not at such a level that investment in renewables is seen as an un-sustainable (pun intended) waste.

[afx114]

Wouldn’t renewables pencil better if we removed all of the subsidies that non-renewables have been enjoying for decades? People talk about the “cheapness” of non-renewable energy as if it is inherently cheap. It is not. Yet when someone tries to throw renewables a bone to get the ball rolling everyone cries about the costs despite the incredible costs we’re already paying to make and keep non-renewable energy cheap.

I’d like to see how things pencil on an even playing field. Sure, non-renewables will still come out cheaper, but not at such a level that investment in renewables is seen as an un-sustainable (pun intended) waste.

[afx114]

Wouldn’t renewables pencil better if we removed all of the subsidies that non-renewables have been enjoying for decades? People talk about the “cheapness” of non-renewable energy as if it is inherently cheap. It is not. Yet when someone tries to throw renewables a bone to get the ball rolling everyone cries about the costs despite the incredible costs we’re already paying to make and keep non-renewable energy cheap.

I’d like to see how things pencil on an even playing field. Sure, non-renewables will still come out cheaper, but not at such a level that investment in renewables is seen as an un-sustainable (pun intended) waste.

[afx114]

Wouldn’t renewables pencil better if we removed all of the subsidies that non-renewables have been enjoying for decades? People talk about the “cheapness” of non-renewable energy as if it is inherently cheap. It is not. Yet when someone tries to throw renewables a bone to get the ball rolling everyone cries about the costs despite the incredible costs we’re already paying to make and keep non-renewable energy cheap.

I’d like to see how things pencil on an even playing field. Sure, non-renewables will still come out cheaper, but not at such a level that investment in renewables is seen as an un-sustainable (pun intended) waste.

[afx114]

Wouldn’t renewables pencil better if we removed all of the subsidies that non-renewables have been enjoying for decades? People talk about the “cheapness” of non-renewable energy as if it is inherently cheap. It is not. Yet when someone tries to throw renewables a bone to get the ball rolling everyone cries about the costs despite the incredible costs we’re already paying to make and keep non-renewable energy cheap.

I’d like to see how things pencil on an even playing field. Sure, non-renewables will still come out cheaper, but not at such a level that investment in renewables is seen as an un-sustainable (pun intended) waste.

[no_such_reality]

[img_assist|nid=14076|title=EIA Share of Energy Subsidies|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=466|height=434]

Source Energy Information Administration, US Gov.

http://www.eia.doe.gov/energy_in_brief/energy_subsidies.cfm

[no_such_reality]

[img_assist|nid=14076|title=EIA Share of Energy Subsidies|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=466|height=434]

Source Energy Information Administration, US Gov.

http://www.eia.doe.gov/energy_in_brief/energy_subsidies.cfm

[no_such_reality]

[img_assist|nid=14076|title=EIA Share of Energy Subsidies|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=466|height=434]

Source Energy Information Administration, US Gov.

http://www.eia.doe.gov/energy_in_brief/energy_subsidies.cfm

[no_such_reality]

[img_assist|nid=14076|title=EIA Share of Energy Subsidies|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=466|height=434]

Source Energy Information Administration, US Gov.

http://www.eia.doe.gov/energy_in_brief/energy_subsidies.cfm

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