Permit numbers are falling rapidly, what about fire re-building?

[barnaby33]

Construction permit numbers are falling through the floor. While this particular UBuffoon articles most shocking revelation is the complete standstill in industrial permits; I am curious about residential. Shouldn’t we be seeing several hundred permits filed per month to cover re-construction of houses burned in the October fires?
Josh

[JWM in SD]

JWM in SD

“I am curious about residential. Shouldn’t we be seeing several hundred permits filed per month to cover re-construction of houses burned in the October fires?”

Anyone else wondering if there are not appraisal value issues surrounding the homes destroyed by the Fire? In other words their value is not what it once was at either purchase point or at the time of the fire since the market has deteriorated so quickly.

Bugs?? Thoughts?

[gdcox]

Graham

This raises the issue of land versus build costs.
For houses in ares not blighted by over-development or other excesses of the boom years (such as excessive developer profits), the brunt of the fall in the value of a house should be in the part of the house price that is the land value.

But do not the insurance polices for the burnt houses just over the re-build cost and owners only get screwed if they were under insured for that?

[NotCranky]

I am not sure about the permits, but I believe they trickled in for the last fire.

the insurance company does not comp the house out they “adjust it” using a pet hired contractor who use software. The Homeowner can wait for the insurance companies offer and let their contractor repair the house or they can argue the numbers indepentdently or hirer an adjuster to scope out and estimate the loss. If an agreement can’t be reached they go to a neutral third party called a referee in an arbitration process called “appraisal” and the referee makes the decision. This is all under state law.

The terms of the policy absolutely affect the results. In the last fires the insurance commissioner and the courts took the side of the under insured and blamed the coverage deficiency on insurance on the agent. I know several companies under insure to keep rates competitive and deal with it on a case by case basis in big losses. They usually have pretty high extended coverage by implementing a rider into the contract but the insured could likely end up fighting like crazy to get into the extended coverage area.

[NotCranky]

I am not sure about the permits, but I believe they trickled in for the last fire.

the insurance company does not comp the house out they “adjust it” using a pet hired contractor who use software. The Homeowner can wait for the insurance companies offer and let their contractor repair the house or they can argue the numbers indepentdently or hirer an adjuster to scope out and estimate the loss. If an agreement can’t be reached they go to a neutral third party called a referee in an arbitration process called “appraisal” and the referee makes the decision. This is all under state law.

The terms of the policy absolutely affect the results. In the last fires the insurance commissioner and the courts took the side of the under insured and blamed the coverage deficiency on insurance on the agent. I know several companies under insure to keep rates competitive and deal with it on a case by case basis in big losses. They usually have pretty high extended coverage by implementing a rider into the contract but the insured could likely end up fighting like crazy to get into the extended coverage area.

[NotCranky]

I am not sure about the permits, but I believe they trickled in for the last fire.

the insurance company does not comp the house out they “adjust it” using a pet hired contractor who use software. The Homeowner can wait for the insurance companies offer and let their contractor repair the house or they can argue the numbers indepentdently or hirer an adjuster to scope out and estimate the loss. If an agreement can’t be reached they go to a neutral third party called a referee in an arbitration process called “appraisal” and the referee makes the decision. This is all under state law.

The terms of the policy absolutely affect the results. In the last fires the insurance commissioner and the courts took the side of the under insured and blamed the coverage deficiency on insurance on the agent. I know several companies under insure to keep rates competitive and deal with it on a case by case basis in big losses. They usually have pretty high extended coverage by implementing a rider into the contract but the insured could likely end up fighting like crazy to get into the extended coverage area.

[NotCranky]

I am not sure about the permits, but I believe they trickled in for the last fire.

the insurance company does not comp the house out they “adjust it” using a pet hired contractor who use software. The Homeowner can wait for the insurance companies offer and let their contractor repair the house or they can argue the numbers indepentdently or hirer an adjuster to scope out and estimate the loss. If an agreement can’t be reached they go to a neutral third party called a referee in an arbitration process called “appraisal” and the referee makes the decision. This is all under state law.

The terms of the policy absolutely affect the results. In the last fires the insurance commissioner and the courts took the side of the under insured and blamed the coverage deficiency on insurance on the agent. I know several companies under insure to keep rates competitive and deal with it on a case by case basis in big losses. They usually have pretty high extended coverage by implementing a rider into the contract but the insured could likely end up fighting like crazy to get into the extended coverage area.

[NotCranky]

I am not sure about the permits, but I believe they trickled in for the last fire.

the insurance company does not comp the house out they “adjust it” using a pet hired contractor who use software. The Homeowner can wait for the insurance companies offer and let their contractor repair the house or they can argue the numbers indepentdently or hirer an adjuster to scope out and estimate the loss. If an agreement can’t be reached they go to a neutral third party called a referee in an arbitration process called “appraisal” and the referee makes the decision. This is all under state law.

The terms of the policy absolutely affect the results. In the last fires the insurance commissioner and the courts took the side of the under insured and blamed the coverage deficiency on insurance on the agent. I know several companies under insure to keep rates competitive and deal with it on a case by case basis in big losses. They usually have pretty high extended coverage by implementing a rider into the contract but the insured could likely end up fighting like crazy to get into the extended coverage area.

[Bugs]

I wouldn’t guess that all that many of the burned homes were horribly overencumbered. We like to toss around the idea that our society has devolved and everyone in it has been behaving irresponsibly, but I’d like the think that the people who’s behavior has been garnering all the attention are among the minority, not the majority.

OTOH, I would guess that a lot of those homes were underinsured. When coupled with the standing inventory of new homes it wouldn’t surprise me is some of the fire victims just moved on.

Maybe the sales activity from the last few months was bolstered by some of these buyers, who would otherwise have remained in place. Maybe without the fires 2007 would have ended even worse than it did.

[beachlover]

Well, it could reflect the construction prices. I’ve had two contractors submit bids on a room addition. Not a big job, a little over 100 feet on a single story home. They both indicated they are NOT doing any fire work.

First bid was just under $700 a square foot; second was just under $500 a square foot. Obviously, they won’t be pulling permits for me. If they aren’t pulling permits for others I wonder what they are doing?

[an]

Wow, $500-700/sq-ft? I thought the typical cost is $150-200/sq-ft. So with this rate, adding 1,000 sq-ft would cost $500-700k?

[an]

Wow, $500-700/sq-ft? I thought the typical cost is $150-200/sq-ft. So with this rate, adding 1,000 sq-ft would cost $500-700k?

[an]

Wow, $500-700/sq-ft? I thought the typical cost is $150-200/sq-ft. So with this rate, adding 1,000 sq-ft would cost $500-700k?

[an]

Wow, $500-700/sq-ft? I thought the typical cost is $150-200/sq-ft. So with this rate, adding 1,000 sq-ft would cost $500-700k?

[an]

Wow, $500-700/sq-ft? I thought the typical cost is $150-200/sq-ft. So with this rate, adding 1,000 sq-ft would cost $500-700k?

[beachlover]

Well, it could reflect the construction prices. I’ve had two contractors submit bids on a room addition. Not a big job, a little over 100 feet on a single story home. They both indicated they are NOT doing any fire work.

First bid was just under $700 a square foot; second was just under $500 a square foot. Obviously, they won’t be pulling permits for me. If they aren’t pulling permits for others I wonder what they are doing?

[beachlover]

Well, it could reflect the construction prices. I’ve had two contractors submit bids on a room addition. Not a big job, a little over 100 feet on a single story home. They both indicated they are NOT doing any fire work.

First bid was just under $700 a square foot; second was just under $500 a square foot. Obviously, they won’t be pulling permits for me. If they aren’t pulling permits for others I wonder what they are doing?

[beachlover]

Well, it could reflect the construction prices. I’ve had two contractors submit bids on a room addition. Not a big job, a little over 100 feet on a single story home. They both indicated they are NOT doing any fire work.

First bid was just under $700 a square foot; second was just under $500 a square foot. Obviously, they won’t be pulling permits for me. If they aren’t pulling permits for others I wonder what they are doing?

[beachlover]

Well, it could reflect the construction prices. I’ve had two contractors submit bids on a room addition. Not a big job, a little over 100 feet on a single story home. They both indicated they are NOT doing any fire work.

First bid was just under $700 a square foot; second was just under $500 a square foot. Obviously, they won’t be pulling permits for me. If they aren’t pulling permits for others I wonder what they are doing?

[Bugs]

I wouldn’t guess that all that many of the burned homes were horribly overencumbered. We like to toss around the idea that our society has devolved and everyone in it has been behaving irresponsibly, but I’d like the think that the people who’s behavior has been garnering all the attention are among the minority, not the majority.

OTOH, I would guess that a lot of those homes were underinsured. When coupled with the standing inventory of new homes it wouldn’t surprise me is some of the fire victims just moved on.

Maybe the sales activity from the last few months was bolstered by some of these buyers, who would otherwise have remained in place. Maybe without the fires 2007 would have ended even worse than it did.

[Bugs]

I wouldn’t guess that all that many of the burned homes were horribly overencumbered. We like to toss around the idea that our society has devolved and everyone in it has been behaving irresponsibly, but I’d like the think that the people who’s behavior has been garnering all the attention are among the minority, not the majority.

OTOH, I would guess that a lot of those homes were underinsured. When coupled with the standing inventory of new homes it wouldn’t surprise me is some of the fire victims just moved on.

Maybe the sales activity from the last few months was bolstered by some of these buyers, who would otherwise have remained in place. Maybe without the fires 2007 would have ended even worse than it did.

[Bugs]

I wouldn’t guess that all that many of the burned homes were horribly overencumbered. We like to toss around the idea that our society has devolved and everyone in it has been behaving irresponsibly, but I’d like the think that the people who’s behavior has been garnering all the attention are among the minority, not the majority.

OTOH, I would guess that a lot of those homes were underinsured. When coupled with the standing inventory of new homes it wouldn’t surprise me is some of the fire victims just moved on.

Maybe the sales activity from the last few months was bolstered by some of these buyers, who would otherwise have remained in place. Maybe without the fires 2007 would have ended even worse than it did.

[Bugs]

I wouldn’t guess that all that many of the burned homes were horribly overencumbered. We like to toss around the idea that our society has devolved and everyone in it has been behaving irresponsibly, but I’d like the think that the people who’s behavior has been garnering all the attention are among the minority, not the majority.

OTOH, I would guess that a lot of those homes were underinsured. When coupled with the standing inventory of new homes it wouldn’t surprise me is some of the fire victims just moved on.

Maybe the sales activity from the last few months was bolstered by some of these buyers, who would otherwise have remained in place. Maybe without the fires 2007 would have ended even worse than it did.

[gdcox]

Graham

This raises the issue of land versus build costs.
For houses in ares not blighted by over-development or other excesses of the boom years (such as excessive developer profits), the brunt of the fall in the value of a house should be in the part of the house price that is the land value.

But do not the insurance polices for the burnt houses just over the re-build cost and owners only get screwed if they were under insured for that?

[gdcox]

Graham

This raises the issue of land versus build costs.
For houses in ares not blighted by over-development or other excesses of the boom years (such as excessive developer profits), the brunt of the fall in the value of a house should be in the part of the house price that is the land value.

But do not the insurance polices for the burnt houses just over the re-build cost and owners only get screwed if they were under insured for that?

[gdcox]

Graham

This raises the issue of land versus build costs.
For houses in ares not blighted by over-development or other excesses of the boom years (such as excessive developer profits), the brunt of the fall in the value of a house should be in the part of the house price that is the land value.

But do not the insurance polices for the burnt houses just over the re-build cost and owners only get screwed if they were under insured for that?

[gdcox]

Graham

This raises the issue of land versus build costs.
For houses in ares not blighted by over-development or other excesses of the boom years (such as excessive developer profits), the brunt of the fall in the value of a house should be in the part of the house price that is the land value.

But do not the insurance polices for the burnt houses just over the re-build cost and owners only get screwed if they were under insured for that?

[JWM in SD]

JWM in SD

“I am curious about residential. Shouldn’t we be seeing several hundred permits filed per month to cover re-construction of houses burned in the October fires?”

Anyone else wondering if there are not appraisal value issues surrounding the homes destroyed by the Fire? In other words their value is not what it once was at either purchase point or at the time of the fire since the market has deteriorated so quickly.

Bugs?? Thoughts?

[JWM in SD]

JWM in SD

“I am curious about residential. Shouldn’t we be seeing several hundred permits filed per month to cover re-construction of houses burned in the October fires?”

Anyone else wondering if there are not appraisal value issues surrounding the homes destroyed by the Fire? In other words their value is not what it once was at either purchase point or at the time of the fire since the market has deteriorated so quickly.

Bugs?? Thoughts?

[JWM in SD]

JWM in SD

“I am curious about residential. Shouldn’t we be seeing several hundred permits filed per month to cover re-construction of houses burned in the October fires?”

Anyone else wondering if there are not appraisal value issues surrounding the homes destroyed by the Fire? In other words their value is not what it once was at either purchase point or at the time of the fire since the market has deteriorated so quickly.

Bugs?? Thoughts?

[JWM in SD]

JWM in SD

“I am curious about residential. Shouldn’t we be seeing several hundred permits filed per month to cover re-construction of houses burned in the October fires?”

Anyone else wondering if there are not appraisal value issues surrounding the homes destroyed by the Fire? In other words their value is not what it once was at either purchase point or at the time of the fire since the market has deteriorated so quickly.

Bugs?? Thoughts?

[barnaby33]

My original question, which seems to have morphed into something else was, in what time frame should we be seeing the majority of the fire re-build permits being filed? The reason I ask is that permits are falling through the floor, which indicates either, lots of people have already done it, they haven’t gotten that far in the process, or they aren’t going to. This last option seems unlikely.

Josh

[robyns_song]

I was looking at some model homes and spoke with one lady who lost her house. She indicated she was caught up in the appraisal process–the insurance carrier thought the property was worth less than what was owed/insured for, so they only paid what it was worth, not the policy limit even though it was completely lost.

Anyway, she said that both she and her neighbors were going to rebuild, but it was taking months to come up with plans (they were all looking at model homes for ideas). My guess is that most of them are content renting while they come up with their house plans. The insurance companies usually pay for housing expenses for a certain period of time–maybe they are living this up.

[robyns_song]

I was looking at some model homes and spoke with one lady who lost her house. She indicated she was caught up in the appraisal process–the insurance carrier thought the property was worth less than what was owed/insured for, so they only paid what it was worth, not the policy limit even though it was completely lost.

Anyway, she said that both she and her neighbors were going to rebuild, but it was taking months to come up with plans (they were all looking at model homes for ideas). My guess is that most of them are content renting while they come up with their house plans. The insurance companies usually pay for housing expenses for a certain period of time–maybe they are living this up.

[robyns_song]

I was looking at some model homes and spoke with one lady who lost her house. She indicated she was caught up in the appraisal process–the insurance carrier thought the property was worth less than what was owed/insured for, so they only paid what it was worth, not the policy limit even though it was completely lost.

Anyway, she said that both she and her neighbors were going to rebuild, but it was taking months to come up with plans (they were all looking at model homes for ideas). My guess is that most of them are content renting while they come up with their house plans. The insurance companies usually pay for housing expenses for a certain period of time–maybe they are living this up.

[robyns_song]

I was looking at some model homes and spoke with one lady who lost her house. She indicated she was caught up in the appraisal process–the insurance carrier thought the property was worth less than what was owed/insured for, so they only paid what it was worth, not the policy limit even though it was completely lost.

Anyway, she said that both she and her neighbors were going to rebuild, but it was taking months to come up with plans (they were all looking at model homes for ideas). My guess is that most of them are content renting while they come up with their house plans. The insurance companies usually pay for housing expenses for a certain period of time–maybe they are living this up.

[robyns_song]

I was looking at some model homes and spoke with one lady who lost her house. She indicated she was caught up in the appraisal process–the insurance carrier thought the property was worth less than what was owed/insured for, so they only paid what it was worth, not the policy limit even though it was completely lost.

Anyway, she said that both she and her neighbors were going to rebuild, but it was taking months to come up with plans (they were all looking at model homes for ideas). My guess is that most of them are content renting while they come up with their house plans. The insurance companies usually pay for housing expenses for a certain period of time–maybe they are living this up.

[barnaby33]

My original question, which seems to have morphed into something else was, in what time frame should we be seeing the majority of the fire re-build permits being filed? The reason I ask is that permits are falling through the floor, which indicates either, lots of people have already done it, they haven’t gotten that far in the process, or they aren’t going to. This last option seems unlikely.

Josh

[barnaby33]

My original question, which seems to have morphed into something else was, in what time frame should we be seeing the majority of the fire re-build permits being filed? The reason I ask is that permits are falling through the floor, which indicates either, lots of people have already done it, they haven’t gotten that far in the process, or they aren’t going to. This last option seems unlikely.

Josh

[barnaby33]

My original question, which seems to have morphed into something else was, in what time frame should we be seeing the majority of the fire re-build permits being filed? The reason I ask is that permits are falling through the floor, which indicates either, lots of people have already done it, they haven’t gotten that far in the process, or they aren’t going to. This last option seems unlikely.

Josh

[barnaby33]

My original question, which seems to have morphed into something else was, in what time frame should we be seeing the majority of the fire re-build permits being filed? The reason I ask is that permits are falling through the floor, which indicates either, lots of people have already done it, they haven’t gotten that far in the process, or they aren’t going to. This last option seems unlikely.

Josh

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