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May 31, 2011 at 11:32 AM #701349May 31, 2011 at 12:03 PM #700166
bearishgurl
Participant[quote=walterwhite]the whining law school kids with the 200,000 debt actually have a valid whine. You’re not really putting yourself in their shoes. if the 200,000 would just stay a stable number, i’d agree, no whining. but they’ve been given a LIFTEIME of debt, that will grow like a cancer, with interest penalties and fees if they’re not making money, really good money, that they can never get rid of forever and ever. if you don’t find a way to start servicing it soon, you will be screwed on the balance sheet of life for the rest of your life. which again, i would agree, no whining, if it were just a matter of getting out there and hustling, which will work for some, but not all of the suckers who were processed through the educational loan system….
and sure, you say, dont go get the degree. you know what you signe dup for.
but as the lawsuits start unfurling, it’ll be argued that the schools misrepresented the employment statistics and numbers….
and maybe that problem applies to others without law school degrees. i don’t know. but there are limits to growth for a society, and wouldnt that play out to individual limits for people, where the rubber hits the road?[/quote]
scaredy, I really think this lack of REAL jobs in CA for recent bar-card recipients is due to the “WWII set” NOT retiring. Many licensed in the late fifties/early sixties are still practicing. I recently heard a “good” and later “winning” argument at the 4th DCA here in SD from an 81 yr old. If they are not sole practitioners, many STILL have their “finger in the pot” as “partners” on paper, acting “of counsel” and otherwise consulting and mentoring in med-size to large firms, while continuing with their local philanthropy endeavors and charity golf tournaments :=] Most have caseloads, if even one complex case or class-action suit they are still “handling.” These old-timers keep people like me busy, as they don’t know what to do with a computer except hang their coats over it, lol! Doesn’t matter … they can still talk it and walk it, with their hands tied behind their backs and that’s all that counts :=]
As far as ex-law students with $200K loans who can’t seem to pass the bar … there are a few of these, too, which is unfortunate. Believe it or not, there are STILL (public AND private) law schools around where a JD can be earned for =<$120K. $200K of student loan debt is excessive in this economy, IMHO ... "prestigious name" be damned. I DO think many recent college grads enroll in law school with unrealistic expectations as to the amount of jobs available everywhere. Many new JDs (awaiting bar results) and recent bar-card recipients work as paralegals or "certified legal interns" out of necessity ... often for years. A one-year paralegal certificate from a private school only costs $4500 to $6500 (that's "hundreds"). A two-year community college certificate/Assoc degree in "paralegal studies" costs even less. A HS diploma is all that's required to enroll in the CC course.
May 31, 2011 at 12:03 PM #700264Participant[quote=walterwhite]the whining law school kids with the 200,000 debt actually have a valid whine. You’re not really putting yourself in their shoes. if the 200,000 would just stay a stable number, i’d agree, no whining. but they’ve been given a LIFTEIME of debt, that will grow like a cancer, with interest penalties and fees if they’re not making money, really good money, that they can never get rid of forever and ever. if you don’t find a way to start servicing it soon, you will be screwed on the balance sheet of life for the rest of your life. which again, i would agree, no whining, if it were just a matter of getting out there and hustling, which will work for some, but not all of the suckers who were processed through the educational loan system….
and sure, you say, dont go get the degree. you know what you signe dup for.
but as the lawsuits start unfurling, it’ll be argued that the schools misrepresented the employment statistics and numbers….
and maybe that problem applies to others without law school degrees. i don’t know. but there are limits to growth for a society, and wouldnt that play out to individual limits for people, where the rubber hits the road?[/quote]
scaredy, I really think this lack of REAL jobs in CA for recent bar-card recipients is due to the “WWII set” NOT retiring. Many licensed in the late fifties/early sixties are still practicing. I recently heard a “good” and later “winning” argument at the 4th DCA here in SD from an 81 yr old. If they are not sole practitioners, many STILL have their “finger in the pot” as “partners” on paper, acting “of counsel” and otherwise consulting and mentoring in med-size to large firms, while continuing with their local philanthropy endeavors and charity golf tournaments :=] Most have caseloads, if even one complex case or class-action suit they are still “handling.” These old-timers keep people like me busy, as they don’t know what to do with a computer except hang their coats over it, lol! Doesn’t matter … they can still talk it and walk it, with their hands tied behind their backs and that’s all that counts :=]
As far as ex-law students with $200K loans who can’t seem to pass the bar … there are a few of these, too, which is unfortunate. Believe it or not, there are STILL (public AND private) law schools around where a JD can be earned for =<$120K. $200K of student loan debt is excessive in this economy, IMHO ... "prestigious name" be damned. I DO think many recent college grads enroll in law school with unrealistic expectations as to the amount of jobs available everywhere. Many new JDs (awaiting bar results) and recent bar-card recipients work as paralegals or "certified legal interns" out of necessity ... often for years. A one-year paralegal certificate from a private school only costs $4500 to $6500 (that's "hundreds"). A two-year community college certificate/Assoc degree in "paralegal studies" costs even less. A HS diploma is all that's required to enroll in the CC course.
May 31, 2011 at 12:03 PM #700852Participant[quote=walterwhite]the whining law school kids with the 200,000 debt actually have a valid whine. You’re not really putting yourself in their shoes. if the 200,000 would just stay a stable number, i’d agree, no whining. but they’ve been given a LIFTEIME of debt, that will grow like a cancer, with interest penalties and fees if they’re not making money, really good money, that they can never get rid of forever and ever. if you don’t find a way to start servicing it soon, you will be screwed on the balance sheet of life for the rest of your life. which again, i would agree, no whining, if it were just a matter of getting out there and hustling, which will work for some, but not all of the suckers who were processed through the educational loan system….
and sure, you say, dont go get the degree. you know what you signe dup for.
but as the lawsuits start unfurling, it’ll be argued that the schools misrepresented the employment statistics and numbers….
and maybe that problem applies to others without law school degrees. i don’t know. but there are limits to growth for a society, and wouldnt that play out to individual limits for people, where the rubber hits the road?[/quote]
scaredy, I really think this lack of REAL jobs in CA for recent bar-card recipients is due to the “WWII set” NOT retiring. Many licensed in the late fifties/early sixties are still practicing. I recently heard a “good” and later “winning” argument at the 4th DCA here in SD from an 81 yr old. If they are not sole practitioners, many STILL have their “finger in the pot” as “partners” on paper, acting “of counsel” and otherwise consulting and mentoring in med-size to large firms, while continuing with their local philanthropy endeavors and charity golf tournaments :=] Most have caseloads, if even one complex case or class-action suit they are still “handling.” These old-timers keep people like me busy, as they don’t know what to do with a computer except hang their coats over it, lol! Doesn’t matter … they can still talk it and walk it, with their hands tied behind their backs and that’s all that counts :=]
As far as ex-law students with $200K loans who can’t seem to pass the bar … there are a few of these, too, which is unfortunate. Believe it or not, there are STILL (public AND private) law schools around where a JD can be earned for =<$120K. $200K of student loan debt is excessive in this economy, IMHO ... "prestigious name" be damned. I DO think many recent college grads enroll in law school with unrealistic expectations as to the amount of jobs available everywhere. Many new JDs (awaiting bar results) and recent bar-card recipients work as paralegals or "certified legal interns" out of necessity ... often for years. A one-year paralegal certificate from a private school only costs $4500 to $6500 (that's "hundreds"). A two-year community college certificate/Assoc degree in "paralegal studies" costs even less. A HS diploma is all that's required to enroll in the CC course.
May 31, 2011 at 12:03 PM #701000Participant[quote=walterwhite]the whining law school kids with the 200,000 debt actually have a valid whine. You’re not really putting yourself in their shoes. if the 200,000 would just stay a stable number, i’d agree, no whining. but they’ve been given a LIFTEIME of debt, that will grow like a cancer, with interest penalties and fees if they’re not making money, really good money, that they can never get rid of forever and ever. if you don’t find a way to start servicing it soon, you will be screwed on the balance sheet of life for the rest of your life. which again, i would agree, no whining, if it were just a matter of getting out there and hustling, which will work for some, but not all of the suckers who were processed through the educational loan system….
and sure, you say, dont go get the degree. you know what you signe dup for.
but as the lawsuits start unfurling, it’ll be argued that the schools misrepresented the employment statistics and numbers….
and maybe that problem applies to others without law school degrees. i don’t know. but there are limits to growth for a society, and wouldnt that play out to individual limits for people, where the rubber hits the road?[/quote]
scaredy, I really think this lack of REAL jobs in CA for recent bar-card recipients is due to the “WWII set” NOT retiring. Many licensed in the late fifties/early sixties are still practicing. I recently heard a “good” and later “winning” argument at the 4th DCA here in SD from an 81 yr old. If they are not sole practitioners, many STILL have their “finger in the pot” as “partners” on paper, acting “of counsel” and otherwise consulting and mentoring in med-size to large firms, while continuing with their local philanthropy endeavors and charity golf tournaments :=] Most have caseloads, if even one complex case or class-action suit they are still “handling.” These old-timers keep people like me busy, as they don’t know what to do with a computer except hang their coats over it, lol! Doesn’t matter … they can still talk it and walk it, with their hands tied behind their backs and that’s all that counts :=]
As far as ex-law students with $200K loans who can’t seem to pass the bar … there are a few of these, too, which is unfortunate. Believe it or not, there are STILL (public AND private) law schools around where a JD can be earned for =<$120K. $200K of student loan debt is excessive in this economy, IMHO ... "prestigious name" be damned. I DO think many recent college grads enroll in law school with unrealistic expectations as to the amount of jobs available everywhere. Many new JDs (awaiting bar results) and recent bar-card recipients work as paralegals or "certified legal interns" out of necessity ... often for years. A one-year paralegal certificate from a private school only costs $4500 to $6500 (that's "hundreds"). A two-year community college certificate/Assoc degree in "paralegal studies" costs even less. A HS diploma is all that's required to enroll in the CC course.
May 31, 2011 at 12:03 PM #701359Participant[quote=walterwhite]the whining law school kids with the 200,000 debt actually have a valid whine. You’re not really putting yourself in their shoes. if the 200,000 would just stay a stable number, i’d agree, no whining. but they’ve been given a LIFTEIME of debt, that will grow like a cancer, with interest penalties and fees if they’re not making money, really good money, that they can never get rid of forever and ever. if you don’t find a way to start servicing it soon, you will be screwed on the balance sheet of life for the rest of your life. which again, i would agree, no whining, if it were just a matter of getting out there and hustling, which will work for some, but not all of the suckers who were processed through the educational loan system….
and sure, you say, dont go get the degree. you know what you signe dup for.
but as the lawsuits start unfurling, it’ll be argued that the schools misrepresented the employment statistics and numbers….
and maybe that problem applies to others without law school degrees. i don’t know. but there are limits to growth for a society, and wouldnt that play out to individual limits for people, where the rubber hits the road?[/quote]
scaredy, I really think this lack of REAL jobs in CA for recent bar-card recipients is due to the “WWII set” NOT retiring. Many licensed in the late fifties/early sixties are still practicing. I recently heard a “good” and later “winning” argument at the 4th DCA here in SD from an 81 yr old. If they are not sole practitioners, many STILL have their “finger in the pot” as “partners” on paper, acting “of counsel” and otherwise consulting and mentoring in med-size to large firms, while continuing with their local philanthropy endeavors and charity golf tournaments :=] Most have caseloads, if even one complex case or class-action suit they are still “handling.” These old-timers keep people like me busy, as they don’t know what to do with a computer except hang their coats over it, lol! Doesn’t matter … they can still talk it and walk it, with their hands tied behind their backs and that’s all that counts :=]
As far as ex-law students with $200K loans who can’t seem to pass the bar … there are a few of these, too, which is unfortunate. Believe it or not, there are STILL (public AND private) law schools around where a JD can be earned for =<$120K. $200K of student loan debt is excessive in this economy, IMHO ... "prestigious name" be damned. I DO think many recent college grads enroll in law school with unrealistic expectations as to the amount of jobs available everywhere. Many new JDs (awaiting bar results) and recent bar-card recipients work as paralegals or "certified legal interns" out of necessity ... often for years. A one-year paralegal certificate from a private school only costs $4500 to $6500 (that's "hundreds"). A two-year community college certificate/Assoc degree in "paralegal studies" costs even less. A HS diploma is all that's required to enroll in the CC course.
May 31, 2011 at 11:04 PM #700281eavesdropper
Participant[quote=AN][quote=CA renter]
What you’ve pointed out is key: we’re not talking about “throwing out” decent, hard-working kids who are trying to better their lives. We’re talking about not enabling the twitchy-thumbed video game addicts — and their TV/computer-addicted counterparts — who believe they are entitled to sit on the couch all day, eating and drinking their parents’ food, and using their home (and all the comforts therein) without feeling the slightest inclination to pay or work for any of it.[/quote]
How do you know the 23 yr. old in the original post is the “twitchy-thumbed video game addicts — and their TV/computer-addicted” type? Here’s what the OP said: “I brought this up because I just read an article in yahoo about a 23 yr old homeless girl who was kicked out of the parents’ house.”We don’t know how the 23 yr. old was raised up but we do know she’s currently homeless. Would any of you kick out your kid(s) (event the TV/video game addicts type), knowing they’ll be homeless?[/quote]
AN, to set the record straight, the subject of the article (1) was not kicked out of her parents’ house, and (2) was not living out on the street without a roof over her head. According to her, she was subjected to a childhood of abuse while in the care of her bipolar mother. She details a lifetime of domestic turmoil, extraordinary academic achievement, and early economic independence (working an assortment of jobs from the age of 10). When she reached the age of legal emancipation, she left her mother’s home and sought to continue her education, while building her resume via a series of increasingly responsible administrative jobs.
At age 23 (in 2008), she was laid off from her corporate executive assistant position (as part of a major downsizing move). She was not able to find consistent employment that would cover her expenses, so she returned to her mother’s house. She said that she quickly realized (during a maternal bipolar event) that the situation she was in would not work for her, and she voluntarily left. Her biological father (with whom she had not shared a relationship in 20 years) had recently died, and she received a pickup truck and 30-foot travel trailer/mobile home from the estate. While not ideal, it did put a roof over her head, a bed under her body at night, a facility to store and prepare food, and a place to perform basic hygiene functions. Here is the link to her story in which you CAN read how she was raised:
http://girlsguidetohomelessness.com/
I think that this story is far more complex than anyone knows, and that there are many things of which we are not aware in this story. However, it is readily apparent that Brianna is an extremely intelligent young woman, and she has put what little education she has received to good use. She does not appear to be related to the “twitchy-thumbed video game addicts — and their TV/computer-addicted” type. Her ability to face up to, and survive, this tough period in her life is a result of the adversity she faced as a child. I am certainly not recommending that you subject your preteen children to abuse to get them used to handling life’s setbacks, but had she had parents who were totally indulgent, she would have had a much tougher time with the experience.
As for that “type”, they do exist, and their number seems to be increasing. As I mentioned earlier, I have friends and acquaintances who have deadbeat kids who are bleeding them dry financially and emotionally. I see many more stories on television that, although seemingly sensationalistic in their presentation, appear to be genuine based on what I have personally witnessed. Without exception, the parents in these situations are at the ends of their wits, and are desperate to get their kids to take responsibility for themselves (and sometimes their spouses/mates and children). Again, these are not adults who have simply fallen on hard times.
The problem is that these adult children were never raised to do things (anything!) for themselves, or to take responsibility in any form. In an effort to “love” them and make things easier for them, their parents handicapped them. If they made any actual rules (unlikely, they were never enforced. If the kids flunked classes, the parents complained to the school admin about the “bad” teachers. If the kids bullied other students, or committed vandalism or more serious criminal acts, they made excuses for them. Despite all this parental “love”, the kids didn’t grow up to be loving, giving, intelligent, productive adults ready to go out on their own.
[quote=AN] How do you know the 23 yr. old in the original post is the “twitchy-thumbed video game addicts — and their TV/computer-addicted” type? Here’s what the OP said: “I brought this up because I just read an article in yahoo about a 23 yr old homeless girl who was kicked out of the parents’ house.”
We don’t know how the 23 yr. old was raised up but we do know she’s currently homeless. Would any of you kick out your kid(s) (event the TV/video game addicts type), knowing they’ll be homeless?[/quote]
I wouldn’t throw my kids out because, when they are here, they are contributing members of the family. We raised them in a very loving environment, but they had regular chores to do, they had to show respect to their elders and to each other, they were expected to fulfill school requirements, and they didn’t get anything they asked for, even if ALL their friends had it. They all had summer jobs that we let them know were as important for their school applications and future resumes as they were for the extra spending money. We didn’t hit them over the head with it, but we reminded them that they were in pretty fortunate circumstances. We taught them basic skills: budgeting, cooking, washing clothes, minor household repairs, changing tires. They could certainly let us know when they were angry, or unhappy, or didn’t agree with our decisions. But they knew not to yell at us, order us around, or curse us out, as so many of their friends did to their own parents. They grew up knowing that they could continue to live with us after age 18, but they would have to pay room and board (if they were not in school), take care of themselves and clean up, and perform a few chores, also. In addition, they still had to follow any rules we elected to set.
They also could choose to move into their own places. But they were well aware that they had to cover all their own expenses, and they knew roughly how much they would be because of their budgeting lessons. They knew that they were responsible for the entire nut. I’m proud to say that 3 out of our 4 kids are self-supporting and living on their own (our youngest is only 15, so we still get to torture her at home).
Our friends with the deadbeat kids who are desperate to get their lives back? It’s not going to happen. Just as they couldn’t face up to their kids when they were growing up, they can’t face up to them now and tell them to get jobs or to clean up after themselves or to pay for their own credit card bills. They keep hoping that a magic transformation will take place, and a responsible hard-working, independent adult will come and take the place of the rude, abusive, lazy, irresponsible deadbeat 27 or 30 year-old “kid” who’s running up $400 monthly cellphone bills and just had his 3rd car accident of the year. I don’t blame the kids. They simply don’t know how to act any other way. They didn’t receive a complete education.
May 31, 2011 at 11:04 PM #700378Participant[quote=AN][quote=CA renter]
What you’ve pointed out is key: we’re not talking about “throwing out” decent, hard-working kids who are trying to better their lives. We’re talking about not enabling the twitchy-thumbed video game addicts — and their TV/computer-addicted counterparts — who believe they are entitled to sit on the couch all day, eating and drinking their parents’ food, and using their home (and all the comforts therein) without feeling the slightest inclination to pay or work for any of it.[/quote]
How do you know the 23 yr. old in the original post is the “twitchy-thumbed video game addicts — and their TV/computer-addicted” type? Here’s what the OP said: “I brought this up because I just read an article in yahoo about a 23 yr old homeless girl who was kicked out of the parents’ house.”We don’t know how the 23 yr. old was raised up but we do know she’s currently homeless. Would any of you kick out your kid(s) (event the TV/video game addicts type), knowing they’ll be homeless?[/quote]
AN, to set the record straight, the subject of the article (1) was not kicked out of her parents’ house, and (2) was not living out on the street without a roof over her head. According to her, she was subjected to a childhood of abuse while in the care of her bipolar mother. She details a lifetime of domestic turmoil, extraordinary academic achievement, and early economic independence (working an assortment of jobs from the age of 10). When she reached the age of legal emancipation, she left her mother’s home and sought to continue her education, while building her resume via a series of increasingly responsible administrative jobs.
At age 23 (in 2008), she was laid off from her corporate executive assistant position (as part of a major downsizing move). She was not able to find consistent employment that would cover her expenses, so she returned to her mother’s house. She said that she quickly realized (during a maternal bipolar event) that the situation she was in would not work for her, and she voluntarily left. Her biological father (with whom she had not shared a relationship in 20 years) had recently died, and she received a pickup truck and 30-foot travel trailer/mobile home from the estate. While not ideal, it did put a roof over her head, a bed under her body at night, a facility to store and prepare food, and a place to perform basic hygiene functions. Here is the link to her story in which you CAN read how she was raised:
http://girlsguidetohomelessness.com/
I think that this story is far more complex than anyone knows, and that there are many things of which we are not aware in this story. However, it is readily apparent that Brianna is an extremely intelligent young woman, and she has put what little education she has received to good use. She does not appear to be related to the “twitchy-thumbed video game addicts — and their TV/computer-addicted” type. Her ability to face up to, and survive, this tough period in her life is a result of the adversity she faced as a child. I am certainly not recommending that you subject your preteen children to abuse to get them used to handling life’s setbacks, but had she had parents who were totally indulgent, she would have had a much tougher time with the experience.
As for that “type”, they do exist, and their number seems to be increasing. As I mentioned earlier, I have friends and acquaintances who have deadbeat kids who are bleeding them dry financially and emotionally. I see many more stories on television that, although seemingly sensationalistic in their presentation, appear to be genuine based on what I have personally witnessed. Without exception, the parents in these situations are at the ends of their wits, and are desperate to get their kids to take responsibility for themselves (and sometimes their spouses/mates and children). Again, these are not adults who have simply fallen on hard times.
The problem is that these adult children were never raised to do things (anything!) for themselves, or to take responsibility in any form. In an effort to “love” them and make things easier for them, their parents handicapped them. If they made any actual rules (unlikely, they were never enforced. If the kids flunked classes, the parents complained to the school admin about the “bad” teachers. If the kids bullied other students, or committed vandalism or more serious criminal acts, they made excuses for them. Despite all this parental “love”, the kids didn’t grow up to be loving, giving, intelligent, productive adults ready to go out on their own.
[quote=AN] How do you know the 23 yr. old in the original post is the “twitchy-thumbed video game addicts — and their TV/computer-addicted” type? Here’s what the OP said: “I brought this up because I just read an article in yahoo about a 23 yr old homeless girl who was kicked out of the parents’ house.”
We don’t know how the 23 yr. old was raised up but we do know she’s currently homeless. Would any of you kick out your kid(s) (event the TV/video game addicts type), knowing they’ll be homeless?[/quote]
I wouldn’t throw my kids out because, when they are here, they are contributing members of the family. We raised them in a very loving environment, but they had regular chores to do, they had to show respect to their elders and to each other, they were expected to fulfill school requirements, and they didn’t get anything they asked for, even if ALL their friends had it. They all had summer jobs that we let them know were as important for their school applications and future resumes as they were for the extra spending money. We didn’t hit them over the head with it, but we reminded them that they were in pretty fortunate circumstances. We taught them basic skills: budgeting, cooking, washing clothes, minor household repairs, changing tires. They could certainly let us know when they were angry, or unhappy, or didn’t agree with our decisions. But they knew not to yell at us, order us around, or curse us out, as so many of their friends did to their own parents. They grew up knowing that they could continue to live with us after age 18, but they would have to pay room and board (if they were not in school), take care of themselves and clean up, and perform a few chores, also. In addition, they still had to follow any rules we elected to set.
They also could choose to move into their own places. But they were well aware that they had to cover all their own expenses, and they knew roughly how much they would be because of their budgeting lessons. They knew that they were responsible for the entire nut. I’m proud to say that 3 out of our 4 kids are self-supporting and living on their own (our youngest is only 15, so we still get to torture her at home).
Our friends with the deadbeat kids who are desperate to get their lives back? It’s not going to happen. Just as they couldn’t face up to their kids when they were growing up, they can’t face up to them now and tell them to get jobs or to clean up after themselves or to pay for their own credit card bills. They keep hoping that a magic transformation will take place, and a responsible hard-working, independent adult will come and take the place of the rude, abusive, lazy, irresponsible deadbeat 27 or 30 year-old “kid” who’s running up $400 monthly cellphone bills and just had his 3rd car accident of the year. I don’t blame the kids. They simply don’t know how to act any other way. They didn’t receive a complete education.
May 31, 2011 at 11:04 PM #700967Participant[quote=AN][quote=CA renter]
What you’ve pointed out is key: we’re not talking about “throwing out” decent, hard-working kids who are trying to better their lives. We’re talking about not enabling the twitchy-thumbed video game addicts — and their TV/computer-addicted counterparts — who believe they are entitled to sit on the couch all day, eating and drinking their parents’ food, and using their home (and all the comforts therein) without feeling the slightest inclination to pay or work for any of it.[/quote]
How do you know the 23 yr. old in the original post is the “twitchy-thumbed video game addicts — and their TV/computer-addicted” type? Here’s what the OP said: “I brought this up because I just read an article in yahoo about a 23 yr old homeless girl who was kicked out of the parents’ house.”We don’t know how the 23 yr. old was raised up but we do know she’s currently homeless. Would any of you kick out your kid(s) (event the TV/video game addicts type), knowing they’ll be homeless?[/quote]
AN, to set the record straight, the subject of the article (1) was not kicked out of her parents’ house, and (2) was not living out on the street without a roof over her head. According to her, she was subjected to a childhood of abuse while in the care of her bipolar mother. She details a lifetime of domestic turmoil, extraordinary academic achievement, and early economic independence (working an assortment of jobs from the age of 10). When she reached the age of legal emancipation, she left her mother’s home and sought to continue her education, while building her resume via a series of increasingly responsible administrative jobs.
At age 23 (in 2008), she was laid off from her corporate executive assistant position (as part of a major downsizing move). She was not able to find consistent employment that would cover her expenses, so she returned to her mother’s house. She said that she quickly realized (during a maternal bipolar event) that the situation she was in would not work for her, and she voluntarily left. Her biological father (with whom she had not shared a relationship in 20 years) had recently died, and she received a pickup truck and 30-foot travel trailer/mobile home from the estate. While not ideal, it did put a roof over her head, a bed under her body at night, a facility to store and prepare food, and a place to perform basic hygiene functions. Here is the link to her story in which you CAN read how she was raised:
http://girlsguidetohomelessness.com/
I think that this story is far more complex than anyone knows, and that there are many things of which we are not aware in this story. However, it is readily apparent that Brianna is an extremely intelligent young woman, and she has put what little education she has received to good use. She does not appear to be related to the “twitchy-thumbed video game addicts — and their TV/computer-addicted” type. Her ability to face up to, and survive, this tough period in her life is a result of the adversity she faced as a child. I am certainly not recommending that you subject your preteen children to abuse to get them used to handling life’s setbacks, but had she had parents who were totally indulgent, she would have had a much tougher time with the experience.
As for that “type”, they do exist, and their number seems to be increasing. As I mentioned earlier, I have friends and acquaintances who have deadbeat kids who are bleeding them dry financially and emotionally. I see many more stories on television that, although seemingly sensationalistic in their presentation, appear to be genuine based on what I have personally witnessed. Without exception, the parents in these situations are at the ends of their wits, and are desperate to get their kids to take responsibility for themselves (and sometimes their spouses/mates and children). Again, these are not adults who have simply fallen on hard times.
The problem is that these adult children were never raised to do things (anything!) for themselves, or to take responsibility in any form. In an effort to “love” them and make things easier for them, their parents handicapped them. If they made any actual rules (unlikely, they were never enforced. If the kids flunked classes, the parents complained to the school admin about the “bad” teachers. If the kids bullied other students, or committed vandalism or more serious criminal acts, they made excuses for them. Despite all this parental “love”, the kids didn’t grow up to be loving, giving, intelligent, productive adults ready to go out on their own.
[quote=AN] How do you know the 23 yr. old in the original post is the “twitchy-thumbed video game addicts — and their TV/computer-addicted” type? Here’s what the OP said: “I brought this up because I just read an article in yahoo about a 23 yr old homeless girl who was kicked out of the parents’ house.”
We don’t know how the 23 yr. old was raised up but we do know she’s currently homeless. Would any of you kick out your kid(s) (event the TV/video game addicts type), knowing they’ll be homeless?[/quote]
I wouldn’t throw my kids out because, when they are here, they are contributing members of the family. We raised them in a very loving environment, but they had regular chores to do, they had to show respect to their elders and to each other, they were expected to fulfill school requirements, and they didn’t get anything they asked for, even if ALL their friends had it. They all had summer jobs that we let them know were as important for their school applications and future resumes as they were for the extra spending money. We didn’t hit them over the head with it, but we reminded them that they were in pretty fortunate circumstances. We taught them basic skills: budgeting, cooking, washing clothes, minor household repairs, changing tires. They could certainly let us know when they were angry, or unhappy, or didn’t agree with our decisions. But they knew not to yell at us, order us around, or curse us out, as so many of their friends did to their own parents. They grew up knowing that they could continue to live with us after age 18, but they would have to pay room and board (if they were not in school), take care of themselves and clean up, and perform a few chores, also. In addition, they still had to follow any rules we elected to set.
They also could choose to move into their own places. But they were well aware that they had to cover all their own expenses, and they knew roughly how much they would be because of their budgeting lessons. They knew that they were responsible for the entire nut. I’m proud to say that 3 out of our 4 kids are self-supporting and living on their own (our youngest is only 15, so we still get to torture her at home).
Our friends with the deadbeat kids who are desperate to get their lives back? It’s not going to happen. Just as they couldn’t face up to their kids when they were growing up, they can’t face up to them now and tell them to get jobs or to clean up after themselves or to pay for their own credit card bills. They keep hoping that a magic transformation will take place, and a responsible hard-working, independent adult will come and take the place of the rude, abusive, lazy, irresponsible deadbeat 27 or 30 year-old “kid” who’s running up $400 monthly cellphone bills and just had his 3rd car accident of the year. I don’t blame the kids. They simply don’t know how to act any other way. They didn’t receive a complete education.
May 31, 2011 at 11:04 PM #701115Participant[quote=AN][quote=CA renter]
What you’ve pointed out is key: we’re not talking about “throwing out” decent, hard-working kids who are trying to better their lives. We’re talking about not enabling the twitchy-thumbed video game addicts — and their TV/computer-addicted counterparts — who believe they are entitled to sit on the couch all day, eating and drinking their parents’ food, and using their home (and all the comforts therein) without feeling the slightest inclination to pay or work for any of it.[/quote]
How do you know the 23 yr. old in the original post is the “twitchy-thumbed video game addicts — and their TV/computer-addicted” type? Here’s what the OP said: “I brought this up because I just read an article in yahoo about a 23 yr old homeless girl who was kicked out of the parents’ house.”We don’t know how the 23 yr. old was raised up but we do know she’s currently homeless. Would any of you kick out your kid(s) (event the TV/video game addicts type), knowing they’ll be homeless?[/quote]
AN, to set the record straight, the subject of the article (1) was not kicked out of her parents’ house, and (2) was not living out on the street without a roof over her head. According to her, she was subjected to a childhood of abuse while in the care of her bipolar mother. She details a lifetime of domestic turmoil, extraordinary academic achievement, and early economic independence (working an assortment of jobs from the age of 10). When she reached the age of legal emancipation, she left her mother’s home and sought to continue her education, while building her resume via a series of increasingly responsible administrative jobs.
At age 23 (in 2008), she was laid off from her corporate executive assistant position (as part of a major downsizing move). She was not able to find consistent employment that would cover her expenses, so she returned to her mother’s house. She said that she quickly realized (during a maternal bipolar event) that the situation she was in would not work for her, and she voluntarily left. Her biological father (with whom she had not shared a relationship in 20 years) had recently died, and she received a pickup truck and 30-foot travel trailer/mobile home from the estate. While not ideal, it did put a roof over her head, a bed under her body at night, a facility to store and prepare food, and a place to perform basic hygiene functions. Here is the link to her story in which you CAN read how she was raised:
http://girlsguidetohomelessness.com/
I think that this story is far more complex than anyone knows, and that there are many things of which we are not aware in this story. However, it is readily apparent that Brianna is an extremely intelligent young woman, and she has put what little education she has received to good use. She does not appear to be related to the “twitchy-thumbed video game addicts — and their TV/computer-addicted” type. Her ability to face up to, and survive, this tough period in her life is a result of the adversity she faced as a child. I am certainly not recommending that you subject your preteen children to abuse to get them used to handling life’s setbacks, but had she had parents who were totally indulgent, she would have had a much tougher time with the experience.
As for that “type”, they do exist, and their number seems to be increasing. As I mentioned earlier, I have friends and acquaintances who have deadbeat kids who are bleeding them dry financially and emotionally. I see many more stories on television that, although seemingly sensationalistic in their presentation, appear to be genuine based on what I have personally witnessed. Without exception, the parents in these situations are at the ends of their wits, and are desperate to get their kids to take responsibility for themselves (and sometimes their spouses/mates and children). Again, these are not adults who have simply fallen on hard times.
The problem is that these adult children were never raised to do things (anything!) for themselves, or to take responsibility in any form. In an effort to “love” them and make things easier for them, their parents handicapped them. If they made any actual rules (unlikely, they were never enforced. If the kids flunked classes, the parents complained to the school admin about the “bad” teachers. If the kids bullied other students, or committed vandalism or more serious criminal acts, they made excuses for them. Despite all this parental “love”, the kids didn’t grow up to be loving, giving, intelligent, productive adults ready to go out on their own.
[quote=AN] How do you know the 23 yr. old in the original post is the “twitchy-thumbed video game addicts — and their TV/computer-addicted” type? Here’s what the OP said: “I brought this up because I just read an article in yahoo about a 23 yr old homeless girl who was kicked out of the parents’ house.”
We don’t know how the 23 yr. old was raised up but we do know she’s currently homeless. Would any of you kick out your kid(s) (event the TV/video game addicts type), knowing they’ll be homeless?[/quote]
I wouldn’t throw my kids out because, when they are here, they are contributing members of the family. We raised them in a very loving environment, but they had regular chores to do, they had to show respect to their elders and to each other, they were expected to fulfill school requirements, and they didn’t get anything they asked for, even if ALL their friends had it. They all had summer jobs that we let them know were as important for their school applications and future resumes as they were for the extra spending money. We didn’t hit them over the head with it, but we reminded them that they were in pretty fortunate circumstances. We taught them basic skills: budgeting, cooking, washing clothes, minor household repairs, changing tires. They could certainly let us know when they were angry, or unhappy, or didn’t agree with our decisions. But they knew not to yell at us, order us around, or curse us out, as so many of their friends did to their own parents. They grew up knowing that they could continue to live with us after age 18, but they would have to pay room and board (if they were not in school), take care of themselves and clean up, and perform a few chores, also. In addition, they still had to follow any rules we elected to set.
They also could choose to move into their own places. But they were well aware that they had to cover all their own expenses, and they knew roughly how much they would be because of their budgeting lessons. They knew that they were responsible for the entire nut. I’m proud to say that 3 out of our 4 kids are self-supporting and living on their own (our youngest is only 15, so we still get to torture her at home).
Our friends with the deadbeat kids who are desperate to get their lives back? It’s not going to happen. Just as they couldn’t face up to their kids when they were growing up, they can’t face up to them now and tell them to get jobs or to clean up after themselves or to pay for their own credit card bills. They keep hoping that a magic transformation will take place, and a responsible hard-working, independent adult will come and take the place of the rude, abusive, lazy, irresponsible deadbeat 27 or 30 year-old “kid” who’s running up $400 monthly cellphone bills and just had his 3rd car accident of the year. I don’t blame the kids. They simply don’t know how to act any other way. They didn’t receive a complete education.
May 31, 2011 at 11:04 PM #701474Participant[quote=AN][quote=CA renter]
What you’ve pointed out is key: we’re not talking about “throwing out” decent, hard-working kids who are trying to better their lives. We’re talking about not enabling the twitchy-thumbed video game addicts — and their TV/computer-addicted counterparts — who believe they are entitled to sit on the couch all day, eating and drinking their parents’ food, and using their home (and all the comforts therein) without feeling the slightest inclination to pay or work for any of it.[/quote]
How do you know the 23 yr. old in the original post is the “twitchy-thumbed video game addicts — and their TV/computer-addicted” type? Here’s what the OP said: “I brought this up because I just read an article in yahoo about a 23 yr old homeless girl who was kicked out of the parents’ house.”We don’t know how the 23 yr. old was raised up but we do know she’s currently homeless. Would any of you kick out your kid(s) (event the TV/video game addicts type), knowing they’ll be homeless?[/quote]
AN, to set the record straight, the subject of the article (1) was not kicked out of her parents’ house, and (2) was not living out on the street without a roof over her head. According to her, she was subjected to a childhood of abuse while in the care of her bipolar mother. She details a lifetime of domestic turmoil, extraordinary academic achievement, and early economic independence (working an assortment of jobs from the age of 10). When she reached the age of legal emancipation, she left her mother’s home and sought to continue her education, while building her resume via a series of increasingly responsible administrative jobs.
At age 23 (in 2008), she was laid off from her corporate executive assistant position (as part of a major downsizing move). She was not able to find consistent employment that would cover her expenses, so she returned to her mother’s house. She said that she quickly realized (during a maternal bipolar event) that the situation she was in would not work for her, and she voluntarily left. Her biological father (with whom she had not shared a relationship in 20 years) had recently died, and she received a pickup truck and 30-foot travel trailer/mobile home from the estate. While not ideal, it did put a roof over her head, a bed under her body at night, a facility to store and prepare food, and a place to perform basic hygiene functions. Here is the link to her story in which you CAN read how she was raised:
http://girlsguidetohomelessness.com/
I think that this story is far more complex than anyone knows, and that there are many things of which we are not aware in this story. However, it is readily apparent that Brianna is an extremely intelligent young woman, and she has put what little education she has received to good use. She does not appear to be related to the “twitchy-thumbed video game addicts — and their TV/computer-addicted” type. Her ability to face up to, and survive, this tough period in her life is a result of the adversity she faced as a child. I am certainly not recommending that you subject your preteen children to abuse to get them used to handling life’s setbacks, but had she had parents who were totally indulgent, she would have had a much tougher time with the experience.
As for that “type”, they do exist, and their number seems to be increasing. As I mentioned earlier, I have friends and acquaintances who have deadbeat kids who are bleeding them dry financially and emotionally. I see many more stories on television that, although seemingly sensationalistic in their presentation, appear to be genuine based on what I have personally witnessed. Without exception, the parents in these situations are at the ends of their wits, and are desperate to get their kids to take responsibility for themselves (and sometimes their spouses/mates and children). Again, these are not adults who have simply fallen on hard times.
The problem is that these adult children were never raised to do things (anything!) for themselves, or to take responsibility in any form. In an effort to “love” them and make things easier for them, their parents handicapped them. If they made any actual rules (unlikely, they were never enforced. If the kids flunked classes, the parents complained to the school admin about the “bad” teachers. If the kids bullied other students, or committed vandalism or more serious criminal acts, they made excuses for them. Despite all this parental “love”, the kids didn’t grow up to be loving, giving, intelligent, productive adults ready to go out on their own.
[quote=AN] How do you know the 23 yr. old in the original post is the “twitchy-thumbed video game addicts — and their TV/computer-addicted” type? Here’s what the OP said: “I brought this up because I just read an article in yahoo about a 23 yr old homeless girl who was kicked out of the parents’ house.”
We don’t know how the 23 yr. old was raised up but we do know she’s currently homeless. Would any of you kick out your kid(s) (event the TV/video game addicts type), knowing they’ll be homeless?[/quote]
I wouldn’t throw my kids out because, when they are here, they are contributing members of the family. We raised them in a very loving environment, but they had regular chores to do, they had to show respect to their elders and to each other, they were expected to fulfill school requirements, and they didn’t get anything they asked for, even if ALL their friends had it. They all had summer jobs that we let them know were as important for their school applications and future resumes as they were for the extra spending money. We didn’t hit them over the head with it, but we reminded them that they were in pretty fortunate circumstances. We taught them basic skills: budgeting, cooking, washing clothes, minor household repairs, changing tires. They could certainly let us know when they were angry, or unhappy, or didn’t agree with our decisions. But they knew not to yell at us, order us around, or curse us out, as so many of their friends did to their own parents. They grew up knowing that they could continue to live with us after age 18, but they would have to pay room and board (if they were not in school), take care of themselves and clean up, and perform a few chores, also. In addition, they still had to follow any rules we elected to set.
They also could choose to move into their own places. But they were well aware that they had to cover all their own expenses, and they knew roughly how much they would be because of their budgeting lessons. They knew that they were responsible for the entire nut. I’m proud to say that 3 out of our 4 kids are self-supporting and living on their own (our youngest is only 15, so we still get to torture her at home).
Our friends with the deadbeat kids who are desperate to get their lives back? It’s not going to happen. Just as they couldn’t face up to their kids when they were growing up, they can’t face up to them now and tell them to get jobs or to clean up after themselves or to pay for their own credit card bills. They keep hoping that a magic transformation will take place, and a responsible hard-working, independent adult will come and take the place of the rude, abusive, lazy, irresponsible deadbeat 27 or 30 year-old “kid” who’s running up $400 monthly cellphone bills and just had his 3rd car accident of the year. I don’t blame the kids. They simply don’t know how to act any other way. They didn’t receive a complete education.
June 1, 2011 at 7:01 AM #700291Participantcomment deleted by poster
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June 1, 2011 at 7:01 AM #701125Participantcomment deleted by poster
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