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bearishgurl.
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November 13, 2015 at 9:17 AM #21773November 13, 2015 at 9:43 AM #791291
Doofrat
ParticipantHere’s what I don’t get: why do so many people go to the 4 year university straight out of High School:
Palomar College tuition: $1,288
SDSU Tuition: $6,976
UC Tuition: $11,220Is there a problem transferring from Community to UC that didn’t exist before?
And unless you go to Ivy League does it really matter which school you attend?
November 13, 2015 at 9:58 AM #791292The-Shoveler
ParticipantI think I could get behind a bill to pay for engineering, Doctors, Nurses etc.. students provided they graduate (before eliminating debt).
Not sure why your average liberal arts student needs to go beyond a two year university, but maybe I am wrong.
November 13, 2015 at 10:45 AM #791293livinincali
ParticipantAt this point technology should make the actual education part of college virtually free. Maybe each student pays $50 a class for content production, grading and profits to an online provider. What’s not free is boat loads of administrators, counselors, brand new buildings, safe spaces, and a plethora of other hand holding services/parenting for the youth today which isn’t free. Then you have the government adding layers financial aid and accreditation in an attempt to keep higher education a monopoly enterprise that artificially reduces supply and has no limitations on cost.
The private sector jobs sector could end us of this cycle if they stopped being lazy and evaluated candidates based on their ability to do the job. If they used testing and interviews or even internships rather than relying on a crutch of must have college degree would improve things greatly. But that doesn’t CYA or help with short term make a quick buck thinking.
November 13, 2015 at 11:13 AM #791294spdrun
ParticipantTypical tech snob response that doesn’t take the need for human interaction, both with teachers and between students, into account. Also, engineering courses need labs and things like that.
Blah blah blah, no need for location, everything should be behind a fuckin screen.
November 13, 2015 at 11:52 AM #791298scaredyclassic
ParticipantA group at ucsd asked me to come speak about being a lawyer.
Half my rap will be about student loans and finances.
Probably not what the expect to hear.
November 13, 2015 at 1:43 PM #791299ParticipantOn another thought, If they make collage extended High school, it will become worth what a high school ed is worth.
There should be some limits i think, maybe everyone has to go to a two year first to thin the herd.
I don’t think we need too many 4 year Grads working as clerks.
November 13, 2015 at 1:48 PM #791300ParticipantNot really: there will still be an application process, grades, different majors, and different schools. Just less student debt on the undergrad level.
November 13, 2015 at 4:01 PM #791303flyer
ParticipantI completely understand that there are many ways we could make higher education less expensive and more accessible, but I also think we have cultivated a society in which a growing number of people think they are simply entitled to everything they want in life (think housing) with no strings attached.
Our kids weren’t interested in tech as careers, and have done well in medicine, law and business. Yet, over 50% of the kids who finished college (at great schools with great degrees) when our kids did, still haven’t found career positions in their chosen fields.
Many have been offered jobs in places they don’t want to go, so that’s another big problem they are having. Apparently, their parents didn’t inform them that the diploma does not come with guarantees.
In general, I think you are going to see greater and greater numbers of disillusioned young people–even those with degrees–in the world when they realize the realities of life are not what they expected.
November 13, 2015 at 5:48 PM #791306joec
ParticipantChanging how loans are offered (non-guaranteed) would probably make tuition more affordable if all the bad loans were reduced and done away with so people can’t get insane loans for useless degrees. This is already happening with a lot of the for profit colleges and those “instantly” have closed and ceased to operate just from this change.
Sadly, I think college simply isn’t for everyone anymore (nor is high-school for your average gang banger)…as it’s way too expensive compared to, say, 20-40 years ago.
That said, it’ll probably be sad that a lot of degrees won’t be pursued, but again, maybe that’s a good thing so for people who really want to study the arts, there will be a lot less competition.
I also don’t buy that there are too few STEM grads as having been one and looking for work, I agree that most of the time, companies just want mostly cheaper labor and recent grads are cheaper than more senior employees. For a lot of jobs, I think you’re just a meat suit and it’s sad unless you do something truly innovative.
Most jobs eventually become more maintenance and don’t require the super insane brain to do.
I think after 20-30 years of this “entitlement” mindset of picking that perfect career, house/job, you name it, the next American Gen/group will start to bust ass again and work like they really mean it.
This is why when I see immigrants compared to people raised here, there is no sense of really wanting to work insanely hard or go all out. There is always that mindset of “I deserve this…” so I’m buying it.
Another danger is in 20 years, you start to have a large number of disillusioned low employed / unemployed men who are single with no kids/family (women seem to think of the future more and will graduate with more degrees in the future) who will radicalize and cause trouble for everyone…nothing left to lose, go out in a bang…etc…
November 13, 2015 at 6:42 PM #791309bearishgurl
Participant[quote=flyer]I completely understand that there are many ways we could make higher education less expensive and more accessible, but I also think we have cultivated a society in which a growing number of people think they are simply entitled to everything they want in life (think housing) with no strings attached.
Our kids weren’t interested in tech as careers, and have done well in medicine, law and business. Yet, over 50% of the kids who finished college (at great schools with great degrees) when our kids did, still haven’t found career positions in their chosen fields.
Many have been offered jobs in places they don’t want to go, so that’s another big problem they are having. Apparently, their parents didn’t inform them that the diploma does not come with guarantees.
In general, I think you are going to see greater and greater numbers of disillusioned young people–even those with degrees–in the world when they realize the realities of life are not what they expected.[/quote]
My kids weren’t interested in tech fields, either, flyer, and so far, they’ve done just fine.
I DO believe that the bulk of student loan money that a public university student receives is likely spent on “upscale” housing and Starbucks, etc. In other words, they got themselves into the debt they’re now in post-graduation because they made the wrong “lifestyle choices” while a FT student. It was unnecessary debt and these students should be required to pay it all back.
I told my youngest that if, per chance, they should be offered their first accounting job in Kansas City upon graduation, to TAKE IT! They can always come back to Cali after getting experience (and references) under their belt. (My youngest wants to get an internship in LA and parlay that reference into a job there and that may yet happen.)
When parents spoil their 20-something year-old still living in the ($1M+) family home along the CA coast by preparing their meals and doing their laundry, it’s pretty difficult for that “kid” to become “accustomed” to living the frugal life of a college student or to be motivated to get their own apt which they can AFFORD. OF COURSE, they’re going to have unrealistically high expectations for everything in life (weather and calibur of home they will “accept”, etc).
November 13, 2015 at 6:57 PM #791310ParticipantI’ve posted this here before but it bears repeating. Make SURE your HS Senior does NOT apply to any CA public university campus undeclared! If they don’t yet know what they want to major in, they need to choose something as close as possible to their interests (and tailor their major to each campus they apply to) so as not to lose any GE credits if they change their major slightly in their late freshman or early soph year.
November 14, 2015 at 9:00 AM #791308Participant[quote=doofrat] . . . Is there a problem transferring from Community to UC that didn’t exist before?
And unless you go to Ivy League does it really matter which school you attend?[/quote]
Yes, doofrat, there IS a problem transferring from a CA CC to a CA public university. As of Fall 2013, the CSU and UC will only consider for acceptance a transferring-in junior who has taken a strictly prescribed set of GEs in CC and earned an Associate of Arts Transfer (AAT) or Associate of Science Transfer (AST) degree, depending on which field of major they intend to pursue at university, which MUST be ascertained PRIOR to entering CC. CSU/UC applicants who already have occupational degrees from years past (i.e. Assoc of Business) will not be considered for acceptance until they have the new required GE credits from CC under their belt required for entry. Mid-year freshman or sophomore applicants are no longer accepted at a CA public university. Once a student starts (and commits to an associate degree program) at a CA CC, they need to finish an AAS or AST degree prior to applying to the UC and/or CSU.
see: http://adegreewithaguarantee.com/
The AAT and AST roadmaps were implemented first by the CSU to boost readiness for upper-division courses, and, as a result, boost graduation rates.
Practically speaking, the AAT and AST are not easy to obtain (especially within two years) at CA CCs situated in heavily-populated urban areas. It isn’t easy to get the needed classes on these campuses because every single FT student there who came straight out of HS is trying to get the exact same classes and the CC’s aren’t as well-funded as they should be to have the class offerings to accomplish this goal. Therefore, I believe that HS graduates staying behind in a parents’ back bdrm to attend local CC are at a great disadvantage to their brethren who left to attend university as a freshman (SDSU is the MOST impacted campus of the 23 CSUs and admits only about 9% of freshman applicants overall).
In short, if your SD-County based HS senior or CC sophomore is eyeing a CA public university and their families cannot afford a private college (which isn’t always “better,” IMO), they need to apply to 6-8 CSU campuses, or, if qualified, to at least 4 UC campuses (preferably more). If your student’s GPA is among the top 9% of their HS class, the UC offers guaranteed placement at a UC campus but bear in mind that he/she may only be offered UC Merced.
If your kid’s offer(s) are from podunk CA inland campus(es), tell them to TAKE IT and DO NOT attempt to transfer out as a junior! Your student should humbly TAKE whatever offers they get. If offered more than one campus, your student needs to MAKE A QUICK DECISION and DON’T LOOK BACK!
Each UC/CSU campus is ever so slightly different in their curriculum so your student will undoubtedly lose credits if they try to transfer out as an incoming junior, costing time and money. ESPecially if they are transferring from a quarter-system campus to a semester-system campus or vice versa.
The goal is to live reasonably frugal and finish with minimal or no debt, even if it takes five years, which CAN BE DONE TODAY with a part-time job, parent/relative’s assistance and financial aid in the form of scholarships and grants which do not need to be paid back.
I don’t care if your kid graduates HS with a 4.27 GPA and 34 AP credits. Applying at CA public universities is a crapshoot for ALL applicants. The goal today is to GET ADMITTED, STAY THERE, STAY the course and finish your chosen degree progam.
If your kid’s goal is CA public university admission, starting their college “career” at a CA CC will put your kid way behind the eight-ball, IMO, UNLESS your kid’s CC is in a small town or a fairly rural area. However, the ROP program at most CC’s is expanding. If your kid wants to go into HVAC, for example, then CC ROP is the way to go. Your kid will be able to finish with a Certificate or AS and get a journey-level position within 1-2 years of starting CC.
November 14, 2015 at 9:23 AM #791329ParticipantIn short, what I was trying to convey here is:
A CC graduate with a 3.0 GPA (or close), practically speaking, is not “guaranteed” a seat at their local UC/CSU campus or even guaranteed a seat in either the quarter/semester immediately after their CC graduation. It might take an additional semester or two to successfully gain admission, depending on how many campuses they apply to.
UC does not guarantee an ELC applicant admission to any particular UC campus. ELC admissions are essentially by lottery and these applicants are offered admission to a campus which has room for them in their 1st or 2nd choices of the degree programs they selected on their application.
UC/CSU admissions are essentially a “numbers game” today so your student needs to apply to as many campuses as they are willing to attend IF their HS GPA is at least a 3.0 and they have met all the A-G reqs in HS. If your student qualifies for an application fee waiver … all the better :=)
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