OT: why do some american parents buy their minors guns?

[Coronita]

This is a real off topic question. But, every time i read about some minor attempting school killings,etc, more than once the minors had access to a gun because a parent(s) bought them one.

 

I'm having a real hard time to understand how any parent in their right mind would even think about allowing a minor to possess a gun. I mean, parents make such a big deal about minors, responsibility, and DRIVING. But a GUN? 

 

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/10/12/student.arsenal/index.html

 Judge, lock the mom up for a year or two, please.

 

[The OC Scam]

It makes a lot of sense… you have a son with violent tendency and anger management issue in fact he even slaps his mother when he is having a bad day…. I think a gun would take his mind off his problems
I have three boys with very even tempers …however if I start to see even the slightest bit of uncontrollable behavior I will definitely buy them guns…because it is so American
We may need to start requiring the parents to attend educational classes like a after school program teaching basic parental duties like… remember to have your children brush their teeth before they go to bed….or it isn’t good idea to let them stay up until 1am the night before school ….or buy them GUNS!!!!!!!

[CBad]

Well, that’s a pretty broad statement. I mean the reason why you are buying the gun is important to note. My husband’s family are avid hunters so yes, my husband had his own guns growing up(hunting rifles). The difference is that when you grow up in a hunting family you are taught the correct ways to use guns. Gun safety is taught and reinforced all the time. To this day my husband still cringes when he sees boys playing with toy guns and pointing them at each other. That’s the opposite of the way he was brought up. Guns are serious and you don’t joke around with them. They are not toys and you NEVER point them at another human being. You also don’t go out on the 4th of July and shoot into the air risking injury to yourself or others.

Anyway, not all parents are out of their minds when buying a gun for a minor.

[nostradamus]

It’s interesting that this is a controversy. This country and its people spend more on military than any other in the world. We are so proud of our military and we are so impressed with our own weapons and delivery systems (come on, I know you drag your lawn chair out to the Miramar Air Show every year). We as a people just love weapons, guns, bombs, and violence. It’s useless to deny it. Those air shows are nothing but a demonstration of what great killing machines we can make and nobody seems to have a problem with them. We don’t have a problem with teens carrying guns in Iraq either. So guns are OK sometimes but not others.

We teach our children that they should do their military duty. We also teach them to love violent first-person video games where the object is to shoot and kill everything. At the same time we teach them that they are special (little miracles) so they grow into narcissistic, hedonistic, children-in-adult-bodies.

To me the real danger is not guns or weapons but the un-naturally violent nature of our society and the fact that everyone driving a car or holding a gun feels like HE is special. Why focus on the guns?

[nostradamus]

BTW is anyone else feeling that there is more tension growing in public places, perhaps because people are already feeling the effects of an economic meltdown? Or is this just my own self-fulfilling prophecy (hey I’m Nostradamus).

I’ve seen a lot more road rage incidents lately and parking lot rage. I think if our economy really crashes some areas (Mira Mesa, for example) will see crime go up.

[Anonymous]

I can’t believe you are all engaging in a discussion on such a frivolous and unimportant topic such as wars, killing machines, violence in America, estranged youth, blah blah blah blah blah, at a time when there is – as we speak – breaking news in the Anna Nicole Smith situation.

[Anonymous]

I can’t believe you are all engaging in a discussion on such a frivolous and unimportant topic such as wars, killing machines, violence in America, estranged youth, blah blah blah blah blah, at a time when there is – as we speak – breaking news in the Anna Nicole Smith situation.

[nostradamus]

BTW is anyone else feeling that there is more tension growing in public places, perhaps because people are already feeling the effects of an economic meltdown? Or is this just my own self-fulfilling prophecy (hey I’m Nostradamus).

I’ve seen a lot more road rage incidents lately and parking lot rage. I think if our economy really crashes some areas (Mira Mesa, for example) will see crime go up.

[Ex-SD]

I grew up in South Carolina. I owned a shotgun, a semi-automatic .22 rifle and a .38 pistol when I was 13. My grandfather taught me how to hunt rabbits with the shotgun. I used the .22 to hunt other small game and I was taught how to use the .38 for home protection. Almost everyone that I knew also owned similar guns. When disagreements would break out among my friends, no one ever threatened to shoot anyone and nobody ever ran home to get a gun when they lost a schoolyard fight or if someone was bullying them. I never heard of a shooting in a school until I was in my early 30’s. I was born in 1948 so every weekend, my friends and I watched cowboy movies where people shot at each other and routinely got in fist fights. Those shows didn’t cause anyone to shoot anyone else or be excessively violent. My opinion is that violent, interactive video games, gangster rap recordings and lack of two parents along with proper discipline in the household during crucial years have caused this wave of violence. My wife and I reared three boys in San Diego and I taught all three how to shoot and handle a weapon safely (along with my wife). All three are now adults and none have ever been involved in any incidents. Proper parenting goes a long way and there is a severe lack of that with today’s youth.

[Anonymous]

I don’t think the problem is guns. In this particular case, there must have been some big family issues. I say family issues and not just issues with the kid because I think any parent should worry if their kid decided to start up an arsenal of pellet guns, with a real one thrown in. If that doesn’t disturb the parents or if they didn’t know about it, then there are some huge problems there.

I was brought up to respect guns. I was taken to shooting ranges many times as a kid, but safety and respect where highly stressed. With proper education and a caring family, I think it is easy for a kid to distinguish between shooting a real gun and playing with cap/water guns with their friends.

[Anonymous]

I don’t think the problem is guns. In this particular case, there must have been some big family issues. I say family issues and not just issues with the kid because I think any parent should worry if their kid decided to start up an arsenal of pellet guns, with a real one thrown in. If that doesn’t disturb the parents or if they didn’t know about it, then there are some huge problems there.

I was brought up to respect guns. I was taken to shooting ranges many times as a kid, but safety and respect where highly stressed. With proper education and a caring family, I think it is easy for a kid to distinguish between shooting a real gun and playing with cap/water guns with their friends.

[salo_t]

I agree with what Ex-SD said, I grew up in the same way. I got a shotgun for Christmas at 11 and my Mother bought me a 22 for my birthday when I was 13. Along with all the hand me down hunting rifles I had quite a collection that I kept in a gun cabinet in my room. My family has been into hunting and shooting since forever and gun safety is second nature. Growing up my family would have never tolerated foul play with firearms and I never once thought about settling a dispute with a gun.
I think it really boils down to upbringing and the reality of what guns really are, responsibility. I started hunting at a young age so I knew that once you pull the trigger theres no taking it back you only shoot at what you intend to kill. Kids that don’t have this type of firearm education probably don’t respect guns in this way and shouldn’t own them, this applies to adults as well. Its just responsibility, like not storing gasoline next to the gas water heater, its just dumb and could get you killed.

[no_such_reality]

got a shotgun for Christmas at 11 and my Mother bought me a 22 for my birthday when I was 13.

The photos I saw of the weapons cache was appropriate for an end of world survivalist fantasies.

Speaking of insane, how about Wisconsin turning a badge and a gun over to a 20 year old that isn’t old enough to even buy a beer without any kind of psychological review.

[bsrsharma]

old enough to even buy a beer

I too see problems with this. No Beer or Cigarette allowed but Assault Rifles/Semiautomatics OK.

[NotCranky]

There seems to be a preponderance of will to have kids get accustomed to guns and I do not mean hunting guns. My kids are taught that guns are no joke,every time it comes up, and especially on the occasion when someone gives them a toy one. They come as plane launchers, bubble making machines, and propellants of any kind of goofy little toy and of course as guns.The kids use them for toy launchers about 15 seconds and start play killing each other because they have seen their friends do it. Any toy like that goes in the trash and they get to keep the non gun component.”Sorry I guess grammy forgot we don’t make a joke out of guns”.The next time we are in the store they will want the gun sans bubbles or whatever.I tell the kids that they can have them when they grow up.
It pisses me off that people make and sell this crap to innocents, strategically placed orange pieces or not. I feel bad for kids with fundamentally unenlightened parents who cooperate with this kind of crap. “Here take your plastic gun outside an pretend to blow your brother to pieces…you will more readily accept your training to kill people in the “axis of evil” when you grow up.” Might as well buy them the whole U.S. Marine “grunt” kit and a couple of toy “ragheads” to blow up.Maybe one or two should come with every gas guzzling SUV.

[NotCranky]

There seems to be a preponderance of will to have kids get accustomed to guns and I do not mean hunting guns. My kids are taught that guns are no joke,every time it comes up, and especially on the occasion when someone gives them a toy one. They come as plane launchers, bubble making machines, and propellants of any kind of goofy little toy and of course as guns.The kids use them for toy launchers about 15 seconds and start play killing each other because they have seen their friends do it. Any toy like that goes in the trash and they get to keep the non gun component.”Sorry I guess grammy forgot we don’t make a joke out of guns”.The next time we are in the store they will want the gun sans bubbles or whatever.I tell the kids that they can have them when they grow up.
It pisses me off that people make and sell this crap to innocents, strategically placed orange pieces or not. I feel bad for kids with fundamentally unenlightened parents who cooperate with this kind of crap. “Here take your plastic gun outside an pretend to blow your brother to pieces…you will more readily accept your training to kill people in the “axis of evil” when you grow up.” Might as well buy them the whole U.S. Marine “grunt” kit and a couple of toy “ragheads” to blow up.Maybe one or two should come with every gas guzzling SUV.

[bsrsharma]

old enough to even buy a beer

I too see problems with this. No Beer or Cigarette allowed but Assault Rifles/Semiautomatics OK.

[no_such_reality]

got a shotgun for Christmas at 11 and my Mother bought me a 22 for my birthday when I was 13.

The photos I saw of the weapons cache was appropriate for an end of world survivalist fantasies.

Speaking of insane, how about Wisconsin turning a badge and a gun over to a 20 year old that isn’t old enough to even buy a beer without any kind of psychological review.

[salo_t]

I agree with what Ex-SD said, I grew up in the same way. I got a shotgun for Christmas at 11 and my Mother bought me a 22 for my birthday when I was 13. Along with all the hand me down hunting rifles I had quite a collection that I kept in a gun cabinet in my room. My family has been into hunting and shooting since forever and gun safety is second nature. Growing up my family would have never tolerated foul play with firearms and I never once thought about settling a dispute with a gun.
I think it really boils down to upbringing and the reality of what guns really are, responsibility. I started hunting at a young age so I knew that once you pull the trigger theres no taking it back you only shoot at what you intend to kill. Kids that don’t have this type of firearm education probably don’t respect guns in this way and shouldn’t own them, this applies to adults as well. Its just responsibility, like not storing gasoline next to the gas water heater, its just dumb and could get you killed.

[Ex-SD]

I grew up in South Carolina. I owned a shotgun, a semi-automatic .22 rifle and a .38 pistol when I was 13. My grandfather taught me how to hunt rabbits with the shotgun. I used the .22 to hunt other small game and I was taught how to use the .38 for home protection. Almost everyone that I knew also owned similar guns. When disagreements would break out among my friends, no one ever threatened to shoot anyone and nobody ever ran home to get a gun when they lost a schoolyard fight or if someone was bullying them. I never heard of a shooting in a school until I was in my early 30’s. I was born in 1948 so every weekend, my friends and I watched cowboy movies where people shot at each other and routinely got in fist fights. Those shows didn’t cause anyone to shoot anyone else or be excessively violent. My opinion is that violent, interactive video games, gangster rap recordings and lack of two parents along with proper discipline in the household during crucial years have caused this wave of violence. My wife and I reared three boys in San Diego and I taught all three how to shoot and handle a weapon safely (along with my wife). All three are now adults and none have ever been involved in any incidents. Proper parenting goes a long way and there is a severe lack of that with today’s youth.

[nostradamus]

It’s interesting that this is a controversy. This country and its people spend more on military than any other in the world. We are so proud of our military and we are so impressed with our own weapons and delivery systems (come on, I know you drag your lawn chair out to the Miramar Air Show every year). We as a people just love weapons, guns, bombs, and violence. It’s useless to deny it. Those air shows are nothing but a demonstration of what great killing machines we can make and nobody seems to have a problem with them. We don’t have a problem with teens carrying guns in Iraq either. So guns are OK sometimes but not others.

We teach our children that they should do their military duty. We also teach them to love violent first-person video games where the object is to shoot and kill everything. At the same time we teach them that they are special (little miracles) so they grow into narcissistic, hedonistic, children-in-adult-bodies.

To me the real danger is not guns or weapons but the un-naturally violent nature of our society and the fact that everyone driving a car or holding a gun feels like HE is special. Why focus on the guns?

[bsrsharma]

buying a gun for a minor.

Cbad – Where do you stand on a parent buying a beer for a minor? I am assuming a minor can't buy either a beer or gun where you live.

[CBad]

Last time I checked, minors can get hunting licenses. I’m not a hunting expert but I thought my husband started at 12. And I guess I should have said USED a gun. To my knowledge, my husband didn’t own any of his guns growing up, his father did. Kind of a moot point when you don’t have to register them though, right?

[CBad]

Last time I checked, minors can get hunting licenses. I’m not a hunting expert but I thought my husband started at 12. And I guess I should have said USED a gun. To my knowledge, my husband didn’t own any of his guns growing up, his father did. Kind of a moot point when you don’t have to register them though, right?

[bsrsharma]

buying a gun for a minor.

Cbad – Where do you stand on a parent buying a beer for a minor? I am assuming a minor can't buy either a beer or gun where you live.

[CBad]

Well, that’s a pretty broad statement. I mean the reason why you are buying the gun is important to note. My husband’s family are avid hunters so yes, my husband had his own guns growing up(hunting rifles). The difference is that when you grow up in a hunting family you are taught the correct ways to use guns. Gun safety is taught and reinforced all the time. To this day my husband still cringes when he sees boys playing with toy guns and pointing them at each other. That’s the opposite of the way he was brought up. Guns are serious and you don’t joke around with them. They are not toys and you NEVER point them at another human being. You also don’t go out on the 4th of July and shoot into the air risking injury to yourself or others.

Anyway, not all parents are out of their minds when buying a gun for a minor.

[The OC Scam]

It makes a lot of sense… you have a son with violent tendency and anger management issue in fact he even slaps his mother when he is having a bad day…. I think a gun would take his mind off his problems
I have three boys with very even tempers …however if I start to see even the slightest bit of uncontrollable behavior I will definitely buy them guns…because it is so American
We may need to start requiring the parents to attend educational classes like a after school program teaching basic parental duties like… remember to have your children brush their teeth before they go to bed….or it isn’t good idea to let them stay up until 1am the night before school ….or buy them GUNS!!!!!!!

[23109VC]

these kids who kill their friends are just sick twisted little kids who have problems. THEY are hte problem. not guns.

blaming guns for these problems is like blaming McDonalds for making you fat.

[poorgradstudent]

There’s a big difference between handguns and rifles. As others have stated, rifles are used for hunting, which is an important family recreation activity in parts of the country. Responsible parents have their kids take gun safety training before buying them their own rifle.

Handguns, on the other hand, are only used for protection and killing, so I’m not sure why a kid or teen would need one.

[poorgradstudent]

There’s a big difference between handguns and rifles. As others have stated, rifles are used for hunting, which is an important family recreation activity in parts of the country. Responsible parents have their kids take gun safety training before buying them their own rifle.

Handguns, on the other hand, are only used for protection and killing, so I’m not sure why a kid or teen would need one.

[23109VC]

these kids who kill their friends are just sick twisted little kids who have problems. THEY are hte problem. not guns.

blaming guns for these problems is like blaming McDonalds for making you fat.

[Coronita]

Let me be clear. When I posted, I don't have issues with guns with themselves. I don't even really have a problem with parents teaching their son/daughter how to properly use one for hunting or even for target practice at a range.

What I was talking about was just general gun safety. I mean, if you buy a gun or buy one so your kid can use it supervised (and key word here is supervised), well, shouldn't you keep it under lock-and-key in a cabinet or something? What I don't understand are the freaky parents that just let their kids access the gun so easily, like keeping it in a their own room. And what parent can justify buying their kid an assault rifle? Far stretch between a hunting gun or even a pistol versus an assault rifle. Unrelated, what the heck about the hand grenades too? Unfrickin believable. WTF are these parents thinking? A son/daughter "needs" an assault rifle? Just my opinion, but this particular mom in this particular case deserves to go to jail.

[NotCranky]

Nothing is going to stop some deviant parents from doing really stupid things. Parents give their kids drugs and alcohol, encourage them to quit school, prostitute them. The only solution is to be against guns or do something to completely eliminate deviant or stupid people before they procreate. Which is more realistic?

[Coronita]

Prosecuting parents for neglience would be a start.

[no_such_reality]

Prosecuting parents for neglience would be a start.

I’ll second that. We prosecute people for murder when they street race. It’s time for parents to start remembering that THEY are responsible for the actions of their children until the children are adults.

That said, I’m still quite chagrined at the amount of violence in a movie that is PG-13 while a bare breast garners an R rating.

[no_such_reality]

Prosecuting parents for neglience would be a start.

I’ll second that. We prosecute people for murder when they street race. It’s time for parents to start remembering that THEY are responsible for the actions of their children until the children are adults.

That said, I’m still quite chagrined at the amount of violence in a movie that is PG-13 while a bare breast garners an R rating.

[NotCranky]

I am with you there. Of course she should go to jail.

[NotCranky]

I am with you there. Of course she should go to jail.

[Coronita]

Prosecuting parents for neglience would be a start.

[bsrsharma]

completely eliminate deviant or stupid people before they procreate

Wow! Not OK; I can settle for sterilization though!

[NotCranky]

Thanks BSR much better use of words…still not realistic. I would have rather said the woman is ill than “deviant and stupid”. She has to be sick in the head.

[Navydoc]

I’m going to echo some posters on this thread and report that I grew up in rural Pennsylvania where we got the first couple of days of deer season off from school, since there would have been no boys in attendance anyway. My father taught me to shoot when I was 9, got my first shotgun and deer rifle when I was 12 and old enough to hunt (still own both), and gun culture was simply a part of life. My father had a revolver in his nightstand, and all 5 of us kids knew where it was and to respect what a potentially deadly instrument it was. (I still have that gun too, a very valuable Ruger .22). My point is, I grew up understanding about guns, and they held no mystery for me or my 4 siblings, and I was no more likely to play with the guns inappropriately than I was to steal the keys to the car and take it for a littel spin. (Activity equally as deadly as playing with a gun)

The Problem is not the guns it’s PARENTING. My parents did a good job raising us. Many parents do not. I can tell you from experience working in a child psychiatry ward, without ecxeption EVERY inpatient on that ward came from a screwed up family situation. I would estimate that >50% of all kids on ritalin come from a disordered family. Trust me, if these kids want to hurt themselves or someone else they will find a way to do it whether guns are available or not.

Oh, and poorgradstudent, handguns can be used for so much more than protection/killing people. This is simply you applying your value system to something in which you have no interest. I like to use an analogy of differnt types of automobile. A KIA Rio will perform the identical transportation function as a Porsche 911. You may choose to drive one or the other for your own reasons, but if you choose the Porsche, how do you feel about the KIA driver asking for government mandated restriction to <100 HP? There is no difference when applied to handguns or assualt rifles. I can tell you, the most fun I've had with my clothes on has been while firing a full-auto machine gun at a target range. I'm not dissing you for your personal choice, but don't diss me for mine.

This is really a crazy topic for a housing blog, but I had to respond as this topic always gets my blood pressure up a little bit. Guns are part of our culture. That is not going to change any time soon. If you try to outlaw guns you will make me a criminal.

[Navydoc]

For some reason my reply was cut short, so I’ll continue it here:

…mandated restriction to less than 100 HP? The same logic can be applied to handguns and assault rifles. I can tell you the most fun I’ve had with my clothes on is while firing a full-auto machine gun at a target range. I’m not dissing you for your preferences, but don’t diss me for mine.

This is really a crazy topic for a housing blog, but I felt I had to respond as this topic always gets my blood pressure up a little bit. Guns are part of our culture. that is not going to change anytime soon. If you try to outlaw guns you will make me a criminal.

[NotCranky]

The Problem is not the guns it’s PARENTING.

The problem with guns is our CULTURE. I am not talking about hunting. I am talking about the love of guns and violence outside of hunting. If we could trust parents to do everything we wouldn’t even need a juvenile penal system.
We can’t, so guns are a problem.

BTW thanks for all you hunter for stepping up and admitting you killed all the wildlife. I guess there are few animals out there somewhere you would still like to kill. Military people and hunters love guns…yeah big surprise. Get your heads out for a minute and look at what is happening. What is more important killing the last moose or saving another kid,police officer, etc. You hunters just supply support for the status quo regarding rediculous lack of gun control.

[no_such_reality]

We can’t, so guns are a problem.

People drive drunk, we don’t make cars harder to get for responsible people.

[NotCranky]

People drive drunk, we don’t make cars harder to get for responsible people.

Yeah, I would call that an alcohol issue rather than a car issue anyway.

You can’t hide a cache of cars for months and stick a couple in your jacket and go on a killing spree in the High School cafeteria.

I also wouldn’t mind this “ideal” responsible person having a normal gun. We have some idiots down the road who I am sure call themselves hunters. I am sure nobody on this blog would approve of them having a gun of any kind.They have half a dozen at least. The system sees them as responsible people. There are millions of them. They all think they are hunters too. Oh yes, they are drunk pretty often too.

[NeetaT]

Marksmanship is a wonderful hobby especially when it is later used to kill terrorists who vitiate our society. “One shot one kill.” Check the wind when firing at targets that are more than 200 meters out.

[CardiffBaseball]

I used to make a drive from the Warren, Ohio area down to a consulting gig around the Pissburgh airport. I had many close calls with deer, and apparently several others did so the Ohio/PA Fish and Game folks had to up the bag limit for a couple of years. All of this is managed pretty smoothly if you ask me. The Deer were more than flourishing.

I am not, and have never hunted. Not a part of the gun culture one iota and I am grateful for hunting season when I am up there.

Lastly for a blue collar family where the old man is making $12-13/hour and mom is making $7-8, a deer or two goes a long way throughout the winter. Deer tacos, venison steaks, venison helper (cheesburger macaroni), etc.

[CardiffBaseball]

I used to make a drive from the Warren, Ohio area down to a consulting gig around the Pissburgh airport. I had many close calls with deer, and apparently several others did so the Ohio/PA Fish and Game folks had to up the bag limit for a couple of years. All of this is managed pretty smoothly if you ask me. The Deer were more than flourishing.

I am not, and have never hunted. Not a part of the gun culture one iota and I am grateful for hunting season when I am up there.

Lastly for a blue collar family where the old man is making $12-13/hour and mom is making $7-8, a deer or two goes a long way throughout the winter. Deer tacos, venison steaks, venison helper (cheesburger macaroni), etc.

[NeetaT]

Marksmanship is a wonderful hobby especially when it is later used to kill terrorists who vitiate our society. “One shot one kill.” Check the wind when firing at targets that are more than 200 meters out.

[no_such_reality]

You can’t hide a cache of cars for months and stick a couple in your jacket and go on a killing spree in the High School cafeteria.

Yeah, but you need only one to plow through a pedestrian farmers market harming just as many.

Guns aren’t the problem, negligance and mental health are.

BTW, maybe you want to check out the UK and their burgeoning gun crime problem inspite of strict gun control.

[NotCranky]

Forget it!

[NotCranky]

Forget it!

[no_such_reality]

You can’t hide a cache of cars for months and stick a couple in your jacket and go on a killing spree in the High School cafeteria.

Yeah, but you need only one to plow through a pedestrian farmers market harming just as many.

Guns aren’t the problem, negligance and mental health are.

BTW, maybe you want to check out the UK and their burgeoning gun crime problem inspite of strict gun control.

[NotCranky]

People drive drunk, we don’t make cars harder to get for responsible people.

Yeah, I would call that an alcohol issue rather than a car issue anyway.

You can’t hide a cache of cars for months and stick a couple in your jacket and go on a killing spree in the High School cafeteria.

I also wouldn’t mind this “ideal” responsible person having a normal gun. We have some idiots down the road who I am sure call themselves hunters. I am sure nobody on this blog would approve of them having a gun of any kind.They have half a dozen at least. The system sees them as responsible people. There are millions of them. They all think they are hunters too. Oh yes, they are drunk pretty often too.

[no_such_reality]

We can’t, so guns are a problem.

People drive drunk, we don’t make cars harder to get for responsible people.

[salo_t]

“BTW thanks for all you hunter for stepping up and admitting you killed all the wildlife”.

Rustico, just to let you know. Big game hunting in the US is controlled by the Fish and Game department. If you want to go out and hunt say whitetail deer than you would have to apply for a deer tag through the Fish and Game dept. They only provide a certain number of tags a year as a way to keep the deer population healthy. Hunting actually plays an important roll in keeping deer populations at the right size for the land they occupy. Over population can lead to starvation and disease. Its not like the 1890’s anymore where people could shoot bears and buffalo into extinction.

[salo_t]

“BTW thanks for all you hunter for stepping up and admitting you killed all the wildlife”.

Rustico, just to let you know. Big game hunting in the US is controlled by the Fish and Game department. If you want to go out and hunt say whitetail deer than you would have to apply for a deer tag through the Fish and Game dept. They only provide a certain number of tags a year as a way to keep the deer population healthy. Hunting actually plays an important roll in keeping deer populations at the right size for the land they occupy. Over population can lead to starvation and disease. Its not like the 1890’s anymore where people could shoot bears and buffalo into extinction.

[Navydoc]

“If we could trust parents to do everything we wouldn’t even need a juvenile penal system”

I can’t believe you wrote that. Are you saying you want the government to raise our children? I trust them far less than I trust the nation’s parents. Sorry to say, but I believe parents should be responsible for the raising of their children. I am enough of a realist to know that perfection in a free society is not possible. Taking away my rights and privileges to punish those that can’t meet their parental responsibilities isn’t fair, and sure feels like communism.

And by the way, Pennsylvania has maintained the largest whitetail deer herd in the nation per square mile through well-managed conservation and controlled hunting. And yes, I grew up quite poor, and the months of venison that we enjoyed after a successful deer season meant we could heat our home in the winters. The winters there were sure a lot colder than the ones in San Diego.

[Navydoc]

“If we could trust parents to do everything we wouldn’t even need a juvenile penal system”

I can’t believe you wrote that. Are you saying you want the government to raise our children? I trust them far less than I trust the nation’s parents. Sorry to say, but I believe parents should be responsible for the raising of their children. I am enough of a realist to know that perfection in a free society is not possible. Taking away my rights and privileges to punish those that can’t meet their parental responsibilities isn’t fair, and sure feels like communism.

And by the way, Pennsylvania has maintained the largest whitetail deer herd in the nation per square mile through well-managed conservation and controlled hunting. And yes, I grew up quite poor, and the months of venison that we enjoyed after a successful deer season meant we could heat our home in the winters. The winters there were sure a lot colder than the ones in San Diego.

[NotCranky]

The Problem is not the guns it’s PARENTING.

The problem with guns is our CULTURE. I am not talking about hunting. I am talking about the love of guns and violence outside of hunting. If we could trust parents to do everything we wouldn’t even need a juvenile penal system.
We can’t, so guns are a problem.

BTW thanks for all you hunter for stepping up and admitting you killed all the wildlife. I guess there are few animals out there somewhere you would still like to kill. Military people and hunters love guns…yeah big surprise. Get your heads out for a minute and look at what is happening. What is more important killing the last moose or saving another kid,police officer, etc. You hunters just supply support for the status quo regarding rediculous lack of gun control.

[Navydoc]

For some reason my reply was cut short, so I’ll continue it here:

…mandated restriction to less than 100 HP? The same logic can be applied to handguns and assault rifles. I can tell you the most fun I’ve had with my clothes on is while firing a full-auto machine gun at a target range. I’m not dissing you for your preferences, but don’t diss me for mine.

This is really a crazy topic for a housing blog, but I felt I had to respond as this topic always gets my blood pressure up a little bit. Guns are part of our culture. that is not going to change anytime soon. If you try to outlaw guns you will make me a criminal.

[Navydoc]

I’m going to echo some posters on this thread and report that I grew up in rural Pennsylvania where we got the first couple of days of deer season off from school, since there would have been no boys in attendance anyway. My father taught me to shoot when I was 9, got my first shotgun and deer rifle when I was 12 and old enough to hunt (still own both), and gun culture was simply a part of life. My father had a revolver in his nightstand, and all 5 of us kids knew where it was and to respect what a potentially deadly instrument it was. (I still have that gun too, a very valuable Ruger .22). My point is, I grew up understanding about guns, and they held no mystery for me or my 4 siblings, and I was no more likely to play with the guns inappropriately than I was to steal the keys to the car and take it for a littel spin. (Activity equally as deadly as playing with a gun)

The Problem is not the guns it’s PARENTING. My parents did a good job raising us. Many parents do not. I can tell you from experience working in a child psychiatry ward, without ecxeption EVERY inpatient on that ward came from a screwed up family situation. I would estimate that >50% of all kids on ritalin come from a disordered family. Trust me, if these kids want to hurt themselves or someone else they will find a way to do it whether guns are available or not.

Oh, and poorgradstudent, handguns can be used for so much more than protection/killing people. This is simply you applying your value system to something in which you have no interest. I like to use an analogy of differnt types of automobile. A KIA Rio will perform the identical transportation function as a Porsche 911. You may choose to drive one or the other for your own reasons, but if you choose the Porsche, how do you feel about the KIA driver asking for government mandated restriction to <100 HP? There is no difference when applied to handguns or assualt rifles. I can tell you, the most fun I've had with my clothes on has been while firing a full-auto machine gun at a target range. I'm not dissing you for your personal choice, but don't diss me for mine.

This is really a crazy topic for a housing blog, but I had to respond as this topic always gets my blood pressure up a little bit. Guns are part of our culture. That is not going to change any time soon. If you try to outlaw guns you will make me a criminal.

[NotCranky]

Thanks BSR much better use of words…still not realistic. I would have rather said the woman is ill than “deviant and stupid”. She has to be sick in the head.

[bsrsharma]

completely eliminate deviant or stupid people before they procreate

Wow! Not OK; I can settle for sterilization though!

[NotCranky]

Nothing is going to stop some deviant parents from doing really stupid things. Parents give their kids drugs and alcohol, encourage them to quit school, prostitute them. The only solution is to be against guns or do something to completely eliminate deviant or stupid people before they procreate. Which is more realistic?

[Coronita]

Let me be clear. When I posted, I don't have issues with guns with themselves. I don't even really have a problem with parents teaching their son/daughter how to properly use one for hunting or even for target practice at a range.

What I was talking about was just general gun safety. I mean, if you buy a gun or buy one so your kid can use it supervised (and key word here is supervised), well, shouldn't you keep it under lock-and-key in a cabinet or something? What I don't understand are the freaky parents that just let their kids access the gun so easily, like keeping it in a their own room. And what parent can justify buying their kid an assault rifle? Far stretch between a hunting gun or even a pistol versus an assault rifle. Unrelated, what the heck about the hand grenades too? Unfrickin believable. WTF are these parents thinking? A son/daughter "needs" an assault rifle? Just my opinion, but this particular mom in this particular case deserves to go to jail.

[The OC Scam]

It appears that there is a general agreement from all the comments that our society should keep parents responsible for providing a weapon to a child that could take another humans life. Whether you take your children hunting or target practice then you should have that weapon secure when not in use and if that weapon is found to be left out with bullets accessible to children then the parent should face the court of law.

I completely disagree with the comment that we as a society cannot stop unruly parents that provide drugs, guns and mentioned prostitution with their children. First as if to say a lot of parents fall within this category is a fallacy. This type of parent mentioned would fall within a very small percentage and I’m sure in most communities they stand out and the neighbors are completely aware of their lifestyle.

In my neighborhood there is one such family in fact last week their 15 year old drove drunk into a house. But I ask myself what could we do to help? Who is willing to reach out? The parent that allowed those keys to lay out while passed high on dope should be behind bars. The 15 year old will just pass through the system becoming ever so numb to life and our world until he finds a gun loaded unsecured in his mothers bedroom ……?

I agree to have the right to arm is a right we should keep but which law will put the parent behind to stop their ideology of negligence.

[The OC Scam]

It appears that there is a general agreement from all the comments that our society should keep parents responsible for providing a weapon to a child that could take another humans life. Whether you take your children hunting or target practice then you should have that weapon secure when not in use and if that weapon is found to be left out with bullets accessible to children then the parent should face the court of law.

I completely disagree with the comment that we as a society cannot stop unruly parents that provide drugs, guns and mentioned prostitution with their children. First as if to say a lot of parents fall within this category is a fallacy. This type of parent mentioned would fall within a very small percentage and I’m sure in most communities they stand out and the neighbors are completely aware of their lifestyle.

In my neighborhood there is one such family in fact last week their 15 year old drove drunk into a house. But I ask myself what could we do to help? Who is willing to reach out? The parent that allowed those keys to lay out while passed high on dope should be behind bars. The 15 year old will just pass through the system becoming ever so numb to life and our world until he finds a gun loaded unsecured in his mothers bedroom ……?

I agree to have the right to arm is a right we should keep but which law will put the parent behind to stop their ideology of negligence.

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