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LuckyInOC.
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November 1, 2008 at 12:28 PM #296567November 1, 2008 at 12:59 PM #296183
kewp
Participant[quote=raptorduck]
I grew up in one of the poorest neighboorhoods in the US. The worst of the worst “hoods.” We were a population of fatherless kids. Almost all my friends had mothers on welfare, the poster child social program of wealth redistribution to care for the “needy.” Well most of those same folks worked jobs “under the table.” And almost all of them had a higher quality of life and had more “things” than my family did. They bought nice cars with that extra cash since the government picked up the bill for their day to day expenses.
[/quote]
I spent my childhood 50/50 between poor/upper-middle-class neighborhoods.That said, I can assure you that there are people gaming the system across the board. Poor folk scam the welfare system, rich folk cheat on their taxes and have illegal immigrants mow their lawn.
Its a wash and it boils down to a matter of ethics, not wealth redistribution or government assistance.
And as I’ve pointed out before, those people gaming the welfare system are buying that new Cadillac from someone just like yourself. If you are taking their money you are just as much a part of the problem (solution?) as they are.
Regardless, I’m still a firm believer in what I call ‘working welfare’. You only get assistance if you have a job.
November 1, 2008 at 12:59 PM #296523Participant[quote=raptorduck]
I grew up in one of the poorest neighboorhoods in the US. The worst of the worst “hoods.” We were a population of fatherless kids. Almost all my friends had mothers on welfare, the poster child social program of wealth redistribution to care for the “needy.” Well most of those same folks worked jobs “under the table.” And almost all of them had a higher quality of life and had more “things” than my family did. They bought nice cars with that extra cash since the government picked up the bill for their day to day expenses.
[/quote]
I spent my childhood 50/50 between poor/upper-middle-class neighborhoods.That said, I can assure you that there are people gaming the system across the board. Poor folk scam the welfare system, rich folk cheat on their taxes and have illegal immigrants mow their lawn.
Its a wash and it boils down to a matter of ethics, not wealth redistribution or government assistance.
And as I’ve pointed out before, those people gaming the welfare system are buying that new Cadillac from someone just like yourself. If you are taking their money you are just as much a part of the problem (solution?) as they are.
Regardless, I’m still a firm believer in what I call ‘working welfare’. You only get assistance if you have a job.
November 1, 2008 at 12:59 PM #296543Participant[quote=raptorduck]
I grew up in one of the poorest neighboorhoods in the US. The worst of the worst “hoods.” We were a population of fatherless kids. Almost all my friends had mothers on welfare, the poster child social program of wealth redistribution to care for the “needy.” Well most of those same folks worked jobs “under the table.” And almost all of them had a higher quality of life and had more “things” than my family did. They bought nice cars with that extra cash since the government picked up the bill for their day to day expenses.
[/quote]
I spent my childhood 50/50 between poor/upper-middle-class neighborhoods.That said, I can assure you that there are people gaming the system across the board. Poor folk scam the welfare system, rich folk cheat on their taxes and have illegal immigrants mow their lawn.
Its a wash and it boils down to a matter of ethics, not wealth redistribution or government assistance.
And as I’ve pointed out before, those people gaming the welfare system are buying that new Cadillac from someone just like yourself. If you are taking their money you are just as much a part of the problem (solution?) as they are.
Regardless, I’m still a firm believer in what I call ‘working welfare’. You only get assistance if you have a job.
November 1, 2008 at 12:59 PM #296555Participant[quote=raptorduck]
I grew up in one of the poorest neighboorhoods in the US. The worst of the worst “hoods.” We were a population of fatherless kids. Almost all my friends had mothers on welfare, the poster child social program of wealth redistribution to care for the “needy.” Well most of those same folks worked jobs “under the table.” And almost all of them had a higher quality of life and had more “things” than my family did. They bought nice cars with that extra cash since the government picked up the bill for their day to day expenses.
[/quote]
I spent my childhood 50/50 between poor/upper-middle-class neighborhoods.That said, I can assure you that there are people gaming the system across the board. Poor folk scam the welfare system, rich folk cheat on their taxes and have illegal immigrants mow their lawn.
Its a wash and it boils down to a matter of ethics, not wealth redistribution or government assistance.
And as I’ve pointed out before, those people gaming the welfare system are buying that new Cadillac from someone just like yourself. If you are taking their money you are just as much a part of the problem (solution?) as they are.
Regardless, I’m still a firm believer in what I call ‘working welfare’. You only get assistance if you have a job.
November 1, 2008 at 12:59 PM #296597Participant[quote=raptorduck]
I grew up in one of the poorest neighboorhoods in the US. The worst of the worst “hoods.” We were a population of fatherless kids. Almost all my friends had mothers on welfare, the poster child social program of wealth redistribution to care for the “needy.” Well most of those same folks worked jobs “under the table.” And almost all of them had a higher quality of life and had more “things” than my family did. They bought nice cars with that extra cash since the government picked up the bill for their day to day expenses.
[/quote]
I spent my childhood 50/50 between poor/upper-middle-class neighborhoods.That said, I can assure you that there are people gaming the system across the board. Poor folk scam the welfare system, rich folk cheat on their taxes and have illegal immigrants mow their lawn.
Its a wash and it boils down to a matter of ethics, not wealth redistribution or government assistance.
And as I’ve pointed out before, those people gaming the welfare system are buying that new Cadillac from someone just like yourself. If you are taking their money you are just as much a part of the problem (solution?) as they are.
Regardless, I’m still a firm believer in what I call ‘working welfare’. You only get assistance if you have a job.
November 1, 2008 at 10:42 PM #296436Shadowfax
Participant[quote=meadandale]…Who shall provide this care? The doctor or nurse? Shall they work for free? Shall they be told what they can earn or where and how they can work (we already have our quota of doctors in San Diego, you can’t practice medicine here)? Shall the doctors, nurses and hospitals be paid by the government? With taxes? That means that someone else has had the fruits of their labor confiscated to provide a ‘right’ for someone else. This doesn’t meet the test for a natural right. Exercise of this ‘right’ requires that someone else’s rights are infringed.[/quote]
This would be funny if it didnt’ describe HMOs so accurately…
November 1, 2008 at 10:42 PM #296779Participant[quote=meadandale]…Who shall provide this care? The doctor or nurse? Shall they work for free? Shall they be told what they can earn or where and how they can work (we already have our quota of doctors in San Diego, you can’t practice medicine here)? Shall the doctors, nurses and hospitals be paid by the government? With taxes? That means that someone else has had the fruits of their labor confiscated to provide a ‘right’ for someone else. This doesn’t meet the test for a natural right. Exercise of this ‘right’ requires that someone else’s rights are infringed.[/quote]
This would be funny if it didnt’ describe HMOs so accurately…
November 1, 2008 at 10:42 PM #296797Participant[quote=meadandale]…Who shall provide this care? The doctor or nurse? Shall they work for free? Shall they be told what they can earn or where and how they can work (we already have our quota of doctors in San Diego, you can’t practice medicine here)? Shall the doctors, nurses and hospitals be paid by the government? With taxes? That means that someone else has had the fruits of their labor confiscated to provide a ‘right’ for someone else. This doesn’t meet the test for a natural right. Exercise of this ‘right’ requires that someone else’s rights are infringed.[/quote]
This would be funny if it didnt’ describe HMOs so accurately…
November 1, 2008 at 10:42 PM #296810Participant[quote=meadandale]…Who shall provide this care? The doctor or nurse? Shall they work for free? Shall they be told what they can earn or where and how they can work (we already have our quota of doctors in San Diego, you can’t practice medicine here)? Shall the doctors, nurses and hospitals be paid by the government? With taxes? That means that someone else has had the fruits of their labor confiscated to provide a ‘right’ for someone else. This doesn’t meet the test for a natural right. Exercise of this ‘right’ requires that someone else’s rights are infringed.[/quote]
This would be funny if it didnt’ describe HMOs so accurately…
November 1, 2008 at 10:42 PM #296852Participant[quote=meadandale]…Who shall provide this care? The doctor or nurse? Shall they work for free? Shall they be told what they can earn or where and how they can work (we already have our quota of doctors in San Diego, you can’t practice medicine here)? Shall the doctors, nurses and hospitals be paid by the government? With taxes? That means that someone else has had the fruits of their labor confiscated to provide a ‘right’ for someone else. This doesn’t meet the test for a natural right. Exercise of this ‘right’ requires that someone else’s rights are infringed.[/quote]
This would be funny if it didnt’ describe HMOs so accurately…
November 2, 2008 at 12:07 AM #296476LuckyInOC
ParticipantGod’s version of redistribution of wealth:
Even God understood the difference between individuals ‘brains’ or ‘abilities’, but still expected results (profits).
Obama must have missed this sermon in church:
Again, it will be like a man going on a journey, who called his servants and entrusted his property to them. To one he gave five talents of money, to another two talents, and to another one talent, each according to his ability. Then he went on his journey. The man who had received the five talents went at once and put his money to work and gained five more. So also, the one with the two talents gained two more. But the man who had received the one talent went off, dug a hole in the ground and hid his master’s money.
After a long time, the master of those servants returned and settled accounts with them. The man who had received the five talents brought the other five. “Master,” he said, “you entrusted me with five talents. See, I have gained five more.”
His master replied, “Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master’s happiness!”
The man with the two talents also came. “Master,” he said, “you entrusted me with two talents; see, I have gained two more.”
His master replied, “Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master’s happiness!”
Then the man who had received the one talent came. “Master,” he said, “I knew that you are a hard man, harvesting where you have not sown and gathering where you have not scattered seed. So I was afraid and went out and hid your talent in the ground. See, here is what belongs to you.”
His master replied, “You wicked, lazy servant! So you knew that I harvest where I have not sown and gather where I have not scattered seed? Well then, you should have put my money on deposit with the bankers, so that when I returned I would have received it back with interest.
“Take the talent from him and give it to the one who has the ten talents. For everyone who has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. And throw that worthless servant outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”
– Matthew 25:14-30 (NIV)
BTW, the Mega-Rich (Buffett, Gates, Jobs, etc.) will never see Obama’s tax. They are protected by vehicles (trusts, etc.) that will protect their income from taxation. Most the taxes will come from Small Business’ (less than 50 employees). This is where most J6P work until they lose their jobs.
I’m for limited, small government. Unfortunately, there is not very many candidates available.
Shouldn’t candidates be individuals that are ‘Candid’? Kind of Ironic…
Lucky in OC
(better known as thread killer)November 2, 2008 at 12:07 AM #296819ParticipantGod’s version of redistribution of wealth:
Even God understood the difference between individuals ‘brains’ or ‘abilities’, but still expected results (profits).
Obama must have missed this sermon in church:
Again, it will be like a man going on a journey, who called his servants and entrusted his property to them. To one he gave five talents of money, to another two talents, and to another one talent, each according to his ability. Then he went on his journey. The man who had received the five talents went at once and put his money to work and gained five more. So also, the one with the two talents gained two more. But the man who had received the one talent went off, dug a hole in the ground and hid his master’s money.
After a long time, the master of those servants returned and settled accounts with them. The man who had received the five talents brought the other five. “Master,” he said, “you entrusted me with five talents. See, I have gained five more.”
His master replied, “Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master’s happiness!”
The man with the two talents also came. “Master,” he said, “you entrusted me with two talents; see, I have gained two more.”
His master replied, “Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master’s happiness!”
Then the man who had received the one talent came. “Master,” he said, “I knew that you are a hard man, harvesting where you have not sown and gathering where you have not scattered seed. So I was afraid and went out and hid your talent in the ground. See, here is what belongs to you.”
His master replied, “You wicked, lazy servant! So you knew that I harvest where I have not sown and gather where I have not scattered seed? Well then, you should have put my money on deposit with the bankers, so that when I returned I would have received it back with interest.
“Take the talent from him and give it to the one who has the ten talents. For everyone who has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. And throw that worthless servant outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”
– Matthew 25:14-30 (NIV)
BTW, the Mega-Rich (Buffett, Gates, Jobs, etc.) will never see Obama’s tax. They are protected by vehicles (trusts, etc.) that will protect their income from taxation. Most the taxes will come from Small Business’ (less than 50 employees). This is where most J6P work until they lose their jobs.
I’m for limited, small government. Unfortunately, there is not very many candidates available.
Shouldn’t candidates be individuals that are ‘Candid’? Kind of Ironic…
Lucky in OC
(better known as thread killer)November 2, 2008 at 12:07 AM #296838ParticipantGod’s version of redistribution of wealth:
Even God understood the difference between individuals ‘brains’ or ‘abilities’, but still expected results (profits).
Obama must have missed this sermon in church:
Again, it will be like a man going on a journey, who called his servants and entrusted his property to them. To one he gave five talents of money, to another two talents, and to another one talent, each according to his ability. Then he went on his journey. The man who had received the five talents went at once and put his money to work and gained five more. So also, the one with the two talents gained two more. But the man who had received the one talent went off, dug a hole in the ground and hid his master’s money.
After a long time, the master of those servants returned and settled accounts with them. The man who had received the five talents brought the other five. “Master,” he said, “you entrusted me with five talents. See, I have gained five more.”
His master replied, “Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master’s happiness!”
The man with the two talents also came. “Master,” he said, “you entrusted me with two talents; see, I have gained two more.”
His master replied, “Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master’s happiness!”
Then the man who had received the one talent came. “Master,” he said, “I knew that you are a hard man, harvesting where you have not sown and gathering where you have not scattered seed. So I was afraid and went out and hid your talent in the ground. See, here is what belongs to you.”
His master replied, “You wicked, lazy servant! So you knew that I harvest where I have not sown and gather where I have not scattered seed? Well then, you should have put my money on deposit with the bankers, so that when I returned I would have received it back with interest.
“Take the talent from him and give it to the one who has the ten talents. For everyone who has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. And throw that worthless servant outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”
– Matthew 25:14-30 (NIV)
BTW, the Mega-Rich (Buffett, Gates, Jobs, etc.) will never see Obama’s tax. They are protected by vehicles (trusts, etc.) that will protect their income from taxation. Most the taxes will come from Small Business’ (less than 50 employees). This is where most J6P work until they lose their jobs.
I’m for limited, small government. Unfortunately, there is not very many candidates available.
Shouldn’t candidates be individuals that are ‘Candid’? Kind of Ironic…
Lucky in OC
(better known as thread killer)November 2, 2008 at 12:07 AM #296850ParticipantGod’s version of redistribution of wealth:
Even God understood the difference between individuals ‘brains’ or ‘abilities’, but still expected results (profits).
Obama must have missed this sermon in church:
Again, it will be like a man going on a journey, who called his servants and entrusted his property to them. To one he gave five talents of money, to another two talents, and to another one talent, each according to his ability. Then he went on his journey. The man who had received the five talents went at once and put his money to work and gained five more. So also, the one with the two talents gained two more. But the man who had received the one talent went off, dug a hole in the ground and hid his master’s money.
After a long time, the master of those servants returned and settled accounts with them. The man who had received the five talents brought the other five. “Master,” he said, “you entrusted me with five talents. See, I have gained five more.”
His master replied, “Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master’s happiness!”
The man with the two talents also came. “Master,” he said, “you entrusted me with two talents; see, I have gained two more.”
His master replied, “Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master’s happiness!”
Then the man who had received the one talent came. “Master,” he said, “I knew that you are a hard man, harvesting where you have not sown and gathering where you have not scattered seed. So I was afraid and went out and hid your talent in the ground. See, here is what belongs to you.”
His master replied, “You wicked, lazy servant! So you knew that I harvest where I have not sown and gather where I have not scattered seed? Well then, you should have put my money on deposit with the bankers, so that when I returned I would have received it back with interest.
“Take the talent from him and give it to the one who has the ten talents. For everyone who has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. And throw that worthless servant outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”
– Matthew 25:14-30 (NIV)
BTW, the Mega-Rich (Buffett, Gates, Jobs, etc.) will never see Obama’s tax. They are protected by vehicles (trusts, etc.) that will protect their income from taxation. Most the taxes will come from Small Business’ (less than 50 employees). This is where most J6P work until they lose their jobs.
I’m for limited, small government. Unfortunately, there is not very many candidates available.
Shouldn’t candidates be individuals that are ‘Candid’? Kind of Ironic…
Lucky in OC
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