OT: Public pay & benefits

[CA renter]

As for whether or not private industry is cheaper than govt, let’s look at military pay.

Private:

PMC Company News:

• NEW! U.S. increases spending on contractors in Iraq

• NEW! Contractors US Spy Ops..

• FREE Sec. Co. Contact List…

• Resume Templates…
• PMC Assessment…

PMC COMPANIES:

At Blackwater USA’s training camp, private security contractors train for their arduous jobs in Iraq, where they serve on security teams, protecting and preserving not only the peace but Diplomats and VIP’s, and even assisting in protecting the military’s supply lines.

The pay for PMC’s in dangerous places like Iraq is generous. Experienced people can make $500-750 a day. But it’s not all for the money, for many its a new career path that has a sense of duty for country while helping to assist in building a new democracy. After the first Gulf War the US military went through a massive Reduction in Force, sharply reducing our forces, leaving hundreds of thousands of soldiers without employment. Many of them went on to work for the FBI, CIA, DEA, Border Patrol, etc.; others joined police departments, went into security and many started their own companies, doing what they knew best: providing security or training others to do the same.
SALARIES: (High Approx.)

PMC Agents: $150,000.00 per year (tax free.)
PMC Senior Agents: $175,000.00 per year.
PMC Asst Detail Leader: $200,000.00 per year.
PMC Detail Leader: $250,000.00 per year.

http://www.unitedpmc.com/companies.htm

——————–

Govt pay scale:

For officers:

1) Basic pay for an O-7 to O-10 is limited by Level II of the Executive Schedule which is $14,975.10. Basic pay for O-6 and below is limited by Level V of the Executive Schedule which is $12,141.60.

2) While serving as Chairman, Joint Chief/Vice Chairman, Joint Chief of Staff, Chief of Navy Operations, Commandant of the Marine Corps, Army/Air Force Chief of Staff, Commander of a unified or specified combatant command, basic pay is $19,983.60 (See note 1 above).

http://www.militaryfactory.com/military_pay_scale.asp

————————

Mind you, those top numbers for the govt are the **very top** positions. The private guys who have nowhere near the same experience, knowledge, or responsibility make more than the govt employees do (but probably get fewer benefits).

BTW, the military does not have people lining up to join, either. That’s one of the reasons the govt is using private contractors — and paying the price. They are trying to avoid a draft.

[CA renter]

[quote=jstoesz]My parents did the same for myself and my brother and sister and we were most definitely not rich. I didn’t even know what a gardener was until I moved to southern california…everyone must be rich here…

CAR,
You do have a point about the self limiting nature of private schools. None of the schools we went to growing up had entrance exams, and all of them had half the per capita spending of the public schools.

But private schools have one important filter, Private schools tend to have parents that care. That kind of environment is worth every penny.[/quote]

I’d be willing to bet $1,000 (seriously) that the private schools that outperform public schools screen their students for intelligence, behavior, or both. The private school I attended screened all applicants, and wouldn’t even allow siblings to attend if they didn’t pass the tests. If there were ANY behavioral problems at all, the student was expelled immediately.

Trust me, it’s much easier to have a successful outcome in this type of environment. You could throw these “good” kids in a room with books and computers, never having to really “teach” them, and they would likely outperform their public school counterparts. You just can’t compare them to public schools. It is 100% different.

[CA renter]

[quote=jstoesz]My parents did the same for myself and my brother and sister and we were most definitely not rich. I didn’t even know what a gardener was until I moved to southern california…everyone must be rich here…

CAR,
You do have a point about the self limiting nature of private schools. None of the schools we went to growing up had entrance exams, and all of them had half the per capita spending of the public schools.

But private schools have one important filter, Private schools tend to have parents that care. That kind of environment is worth every penny.[/quote]

I’d be willing to bet $1,000 (seriously) that the private schools that outperform public schools screen their students for intelligence, behavior, or both. The private school I attended screened all applicants, and wouldn’t even allow siblings to attend if they didn’t pass the tests. If there were ANY behavioral problems at all, the student was expelled immediately.

Trust me, it’s much easier to have a successful outcome in this type of environment. You could throw these “good” kids in a room with books and computers, never having to really “teach” them, and they would likely outperform their public school counterparts. You just can’t compare them to public schools. It is 100% different.

[CA renter]

[quote=jstoesz]My parents did the same for myself and my brother and sister and we were most definitely not rich. I didn’t even know what a gardener was until I moved to southern california…everyone must be rich here…

CAR,
You do have a point about the self limiting nature of private schools. None of the schools we went to growing up had entrance exams, and all of them had half the per capita spending of the public schools.

But private schools have one important filter, Private schools tend to have parents that care. That kind of environment is worth every penny.[/quote]

I’d be willing to bet $1,000 (seriously) that the private schools that outperform public schools screen their students for intelligence, behavior, or both. The private school I attended screened all applicants, and wouldn’t even allow siblings to attend if they didn’t pass the tests. If there were ANY behavioral problems at all, the student was expelled immediately.

Trust me, it’s much easier to have a successful outcome in this type of environment. You could throw these “good” kids in a room with books and computers, never having to really “teach” them, and they would likely outperform their public school counterparts. You just can’t compare them to public schools. It is 100% different.

[CA renter]

[quote=jstoesz]My parents did the same for myself and my brother and sister and we were most definitely not rich. I didn’t even know what a gardener was until I moved to southern california…everyone must be rich here…

CAR,
You do have a point about the self limiting nature of private schools. None of the schools we went to growing up had entrance exams, and all of them had half the per capita spending of the public schools.

But private schools have one important filter, Private schools tend to have parents that care. That kind of environment is worth every penny.[/quote]

I’d be willing to bet $1,000 (seriously) that the private schools that outperform public schools screen their students for intelligence, behavior, or both. The private school I attended screened all applicants, and wouldn’t even allow siblings to attend if they didn’t pass the tests. If there were ANY behavioral problems at all, the student was expelled immediately.

Trust me, it’s much easier to have a successful outcome in this type of environment. You could throw these “good” kids in a room with books and computers, never having to really “teach” them, and they would likely outperform their public school counterparts. You just can’t compare them to public schools. It is 100% different.

[CA renter]

[quote=jstoesz]My parents did the same for myself and my brother and sister and we were most definitely not rich. I didn’t even know what a gardener was until I moved to southern california…everyone must be rich here…

CAR,
You do have a point about the self limiting nature of private schools. None of the schools we went to growing up had entrance exams, and all of them had half the per capita spending of the public schools.

But private schools have one important filter, Private schools tend to have parents that care. That kind of environment is worth every penny.[/quote]

I’d be willing to bet $1,000 (seriously) that the private schools that outperform public schools screen their students for intelligence, behavior, or both. The private school I attended screened all applicants, and wouldn’t even allow siblings to attend if they didn’t pass the tests. If there were ANY behavioral problems at all, the student was expelled immediately.

Trust me, it’s much easier to have a successful outcome in this type of environment. You could throw these “good” kids in a room with books and computers, never having to really “teach” them, and they would likely outperform their public school counterparts. You just can’t compare them to public schools. It is 100% different.

[jficquette]

CA Renter,

Comparing pay for mercenaries in Iraq to public safety employees in California is not apples and apples. Also the military doesn’t retire at full pay. Quite frankly public safety people probably make more money than the mercenaries when you include 30-40 years on pension.

Concerning the firemen who tool around in fire trucks to run personal errands should probably not be allowed to leave the firehouse while they are on duty.

John

[jficquette]

CA Renter,

Comparing pay for mercenaries in Iraq to public safety employees in California is not apples and apples. Also the military doesn’t retire at full pay. Quite frankly public safety people probably make more money than the mercenaries when you include 30-40 years on pension.

Concerning the firemen who tool around in fire trucks to run personal errands should probably not be allowed to leave the firehouse while they are on duty.

John

[jficquette]

CA Renter,

Comparing pay for mercenaries in Iraq to public safety employees in California is not apples and apples. Also the military doesn’t retire at full pay. Quite frankly public safety people probably make more money than the mercenaries when you include 30-40 years on pension.

Concerning the firemen who tool around in fire trucks to run personal errands should probably not be allowed to leave the firehouse while they are on duty.

John

[jficquette]

CA Renter,

Comparing pay for mercenaries in Iraq to public safety employees in California is not apples and apples. Also the military doesn’t retire at full pay. Quite frankly public safety people probably make more money than the mercenaries when you include 30-40 years on pension.

Concerning the firemen who tool around in fire trucks to run personal errands should probably not be allowed to leave the firehouse while they are on duty.

John

[jficquette]

CA Renter,

Comparing pay for mercenaries in Iraq to public safety employees in California is not apples and apples. Also the military doesn’t retire at full pay. Quite frankly public safety people probably make more money than the mercenaries when you include 30-40 years on pension.

Concerning the firemen who tool around in fire trucks to run personal errands should probably not be allowed to leave the firehouse while they are on duty.

John

[CA renter]

[quote=jficquette]CA Renter,

Comparing pay for mercenaries in Iraq to public safety employees in California is not apples and apples. Also the military doesn’t retire at full pay. Quite frankly public safety people probably make more money than the mercenaries when you include 30-40 years on pension.

Concerning the firemen who tool around in fire trucks to run personal errands should probably not be allowed to leave the firehouse while they are on duty.

John[/quote]

Public safety personnel don’t retire at full pay, either. Mind you, public safety personnel weren’t complaining about their pensions before the pension boost, either (not anyone I’ve ever met). That was a disaster from the start, and as I’ve said many times before, it was not the boots-on-the-ground workers who were asking for it. They’re the ones taking all the flak for it now, though.

As to the “tooling around in the fire engines” how do you think firefighters get to calls? The fire station isn’t what goes on calls; the fire engines/trucks do. Firefighters are tied to the fire engines/trucks (and their zones), not the fire station.

Besides, how do you think groceries get to the fire stations when firefighters often 24+ hours at a stretch? Firefighters work 24 or even 120 hours (not an unusual overtime situation) at a time. You don’t think they should eat? Or, perhaps you think the city should hire additional workers who will keep the fire stations supplied all the time?

Just want to clarify…firefighters do not “run personal errands” while on duty. That’s absolutely not allowed. If you see them in the store, they are ON DUTY. If a call comes in, the groceries are dropped and they run to the call.

[CA renter]

[quote=jficquette]CA Renter,

Comparing pay for mercenaries in Iraq to public safety employees in California is not apples and apples. Also the military doesn’t retire at full pay. Quite frankly public safety people probably make more money than the mercenaries when you include 30-40 years on pension.

Concerning the firemen who tool around in fire trucks to run personal errands should probably not be allowed to leave the firehouse while they are on duty.

John[/quote]

Public safety personnel don’t retire at full pay, either. Mind you, public safety personnel weren’t complaining about their pensions before the pension boost, either (not anyone I’ve ever met). That was a disaster from the start, and as I’ve said many times before, it was not the boots-on-the-ground workers who were asking for it. They’re the ones taking all the flak for it now, though.

As to the “tooling around in the fire engines” how do you think firefighters get to calls? The fire station isn’t what goes on calls; the fire engines/trucks do. Firefighters are tied to the fire engines/trucks (and their zones), not the fire station.

Besides, how do you think groceries get to the fire stations when firefighters often 24+ hours at a stretch? Firefighters work 24 or even 120 hours (not an unusual overtime situation) at a time. You don’t think they should eat? Or, perhaps you think the city should hire additional workers who will keep the fire stations supplied all the time?

Just want to clarify…firefighters do not “run personal errands” while on duty. That’s absolutely not allowed. If you see them in the store, they are ON DUTY. If a call comes in, the groceries are dropped and they run to the call.

[CA renter]

[quote=jficquette]CA Renter,

Comparing pay for mercenaries in Iraq to public safety employees in California is not apples and apples. Also the military doesn’t retire at full pay. Quite frankly public safety people probably make more money than the mercenaries when you include 30-40 years on pension.

Concerning the firemen who tool around in fire trucks to run personal errands should probably not be allowed to leave the firehouse while they are on duty.

John[/quote]

Public safety personnel don’t retire at full pay, either. Mind you, public safety personnel weren’t complaining about their pensions before the pension boost, either (not anyone I’ve ever met). That was a disaster from the start, and as I’ve said many times before, it was not the boots-on-the-ground workers who were asking for it. They’re the ones taking all the flak for it now, though.

As to the “tooling around in the fire engines” how do you think firefighters get to calls? The fire station isn’t what goes on calls; the fire engines/trucks do. Firefighters are tied to the fire engines/trucks (and their zones), not the fire station.

Besides, how do you think groceries get to the fire stations when firefighters often 24+ hours at a stretch? Firefighters work 24 or even 120 hours (not an unusual overtime situation) at a time. You don’t think they should eat? Or, perhaps you think the city should hire additional workers who will keep the fire stations supplied all the time?

Just want to clarify…firefighters do not “run personal errands” while on duty. That’s absolutely not allowed. If you see them in the store, they are ON DUTY. If a call comes in, the groceries are dropped and they run to the call.

[CA renter]

[quote=jficquette]CA Renter,

Comparing pay for mercenaries in Iraq to public safety employees in California is not apples and apples. Also the military doesn’t retire at full pay. Quite frankly public safety people probably make more money than the mercenaries when you include 30-40 years on pension.

Concerning the firemen who tool around in fire trucks to run personal errands should probably not be allowed to leave the firehouse while they are on duty.

John[/quote]

Public safety personnel don’t retire at full pay, either. Mind you, public safety personnel weren’t complaining about their pensions before the pension boost, either (not anyone I’ve ever met). That was a disaster from the start, and as I’ve said many times before, it was not the boots-on-the-ground workers who were asking for it. They’re the ones taking all the flak for it now, though.

As to the “tooling around in the fire engines” how do you think firefighters get to calls? The fire station isn’t what goes on calls; the fire engines/trucks do. Firefighters are tied to the fire engines/trucks (and their zones), not the fire station.

Besides, how do you think groceries get to the fire stations when firefighters often 24+ hours at a stretch? Firefighters work 24 or even 120 hours (not an unusual overtime situation) at a time. You don’t think they should eat? Or, perhaps you think the city should hire additional workers who will keep the fire stations supplied all the time?

Just want to clarify…firefighters do not “run personal errands” while on duty. That’s absolutely not allowed. If you see them in the store, they are ON DUTY. If a call comes in, the groceries are dropped and they run to the call.

[Author]

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