OT: Public pay & benefits

[davelj]

[quote=jpinpb] It’s not an easy job or I’d imagine many of you would be out there doing it, making all the supposed money you think they make, pension and all the benefits that go along w/it. Reality is you have no interest, even w/all the money and everything you think they are getting.[/quote]

Strawman argument alert. Based on the quality of the hamburgers I sometimes eat I could argue that a lot of folks making $10/hour in the fast food industry are overpaid. This doesn’t mean I think it’s “easy” or that I should have any interest in doing that job. My willingness to do someone else’s job has NOTHING to do with whether someone’s overpaid or whether or not the job is “easy.” Zero. “Overpaid” is a supply-and-demand issue combined with budgetary constraints. Whether or not I’m willing to do the job is an opportunity cost issue. I’m betting that most Piggs would be taking a pay cut – some rather large – to work a public safety job, thus they have no interest (excluding the issue of whether or not they have any interest in the content of the job itself). But this has NOTHING to do with whether or not these folks are over- or under-paid.

[Anonymous]

Dave,

Excellent points, but I’m afraid the horse is dead.

[Anonymous]

Dave,

Excellent points, but I’m afraid the horse is dead.

[Anonymous]

Dave,

Excellent points, but I’m afraid the horse is dead.

[Anonymous]

Dave,

Excellent points, but I’m afraid the horse is dead.

[Anonymous]

Dave,

Excellent points, but I’m afraid the horse is dead.

[jpinpb]

And I’m sure many public workers would’ve left for private jobs paying more at the first bubble opportunity, but they didn’t b/c they have a vested interest in a pension, the very pension that lures people to do these jobs in the first and the ones that keep them on the hook from leaving.

I’m not sure how some of you have the ability to judge and quantify what and how much cops and firemen should make. There are other cities paying far more than SD, by the way.

And for those that are harping on privatizing, I see that some private companies have been a huge success. GM, airlines, bank, insurance companies. And guess what. The taxpayers ended up paying for GM bailout, banks, etc. So I doubt privatizing is going to be the answer either.

Edit: Another good example of privatization is private schools. But I don’t find that they are cheaper than public schools.

[jpinpb]

And I’m sure many public workers would’ve left for private jobs paying more at the first bubble opportunity, but they didn’t b/c they have a vested interest in a pension, the very pension that lures people to do these jobs in the first and the ones that keep them on the hook from leaving.

I’m not sure how some of you have the ability to judge and quantify what and how much cops and firemen should make. There are other cities paying far more than SD, by the way.

And for those that are harping on privatizing, I see that some private companies have been a huge success. GM, airlines, bank, insurance companies. And guess what. The taxpayers ended up paying for GM bailout, banks, etc. So I doubt privatizing is going to be the answer either.

Edit: Another good example of privatization is private schools. But I don’t find that they are cheaper than public schools.

[jpinpb]

And I’m sure many public workers would’ve left for private jobs paying more at the first bubble opportunity, but they didn’t b/c they have a vested interest in a pension, the very pension that lures people to do these jobs in the first and the ones that keep them on the hook from leaving.

I’m not sure how some of you have the ability to judge and quantify what and how much cops and firemen should make. There are other cities paying far more than SD, by the way.

And for those that are harping on privatizing, I see that some private companies have been a huge success. GM, airlines, bank, insurance companies. And guess what. The taxpayers ended up paying for GM bailout, banks, etc. So I doubt privatizing is going to be the answer either.

Edit: Another good example of privatization is private schools. But I don’t find that they are cheaper than public schools.

[jpinpb]

And I’m sure many public workers would’ve left for private jobs paying more at the first bubble opportunity, but they didn’t b/c they have a vested interest in a pension, the very pension that lures people to do these jobs in the first and the ones that keep them on the hook from leaving.

I’m not sure how some of you have the ability to judge and quantify what and how much cops and firemen should make. There are other cities paying far more than SD, by the way.

And for those that are harping on privatizing, I see that some private companies have been a huge success. GM, airlines, bank, insurance companies. And guess what. The taxpayers ended up paying for GM bailout, banks, etc. So I doubt privatizing is going to be the answer either.

Edit: Another good example of privatization is private schools. But I don’t find that they are cheaper than public schools.

[jpinpb]

And I’m sure many public workers would’ve left for private jobs paying more at the first bubble opportunity, but they didn’t b/c they have a vested interest in a pension, the very pension that lures people to do these jobs in the first and the ones that keep them on the hook from leaving.

I’m not sure how some of you have the ability to judge and quantify what and how much cops and firemen should make. There are other cities paying far more than SD, by the way.

And for those that are harping on privatizing, I see that some private companies have been a huge success. GM, airlines, bank, insurance companies. And guess what. The taxpayers ended up paying for GM bailout, banks, etc. So I doubt privatizing is going to be the answer either.

Edit: Another good example of privatization is private schools. But I don’t find that they are cheaper than public schools.

[faterikcartman]

Sorry, but I don’t buy a lot of your points jpinpb.

First, I don’t think zillions of people made money on the bubble because their salaries went up.

Second, I don’t think that public sector employees had the ability, en masse, to go out and make more in the public sector.

Moreover, I reject the assumption that there are not people out there who would, and are capable, of working as a cop for less. If this were true, we would not be able to fill the ranks of the military.

With waiting lists for these jobs I know we’re not anywhere near to testing the limits of how low compensation could go.

I personally know quite people in law enforcement. Moreover, I know people going through the application and hiring process and have done the same myself.

Departments often put candidates through the process to determine who is qualified and just because you’re qualified does not mean you’re off to the police academy. Rather, you’re put in a queue, on a list, until there is an opening. The fact is there are many more QUALIFIED people willing to do these jobs than there are jobs available. We can know for certain that we’re paying too much up until the point we can’t fill the positions in a timely manner.

Unions in many industries and fields have ruined things for their constituents as they’ve struck and extracted so many wages that either the jobs go overseas or the employers collapses entirely. I’ve found that many of these people have a very, very, unrealistic idea of what they are worth outside their union job.

Lastly, I would like to clarify that I don’t blame police, fire, and other government employees for the largess they enjoy. I blame the politicians who bought their votes with unnecessary compensation packages, the bureaucrats they hired to put these packages together and make other employment decisions, and the people who kept voting them into office.

[faterikcartman]

Sorry, but I don’t buy a lot of your points jpinpb.

First, I don’t think zillions of people made money on the bubble because their salaries went up.

Second, I don’t think that public sector employees had the ability, en masse, to go out and make more in the public sector.

Moreover, I reject the assumption that there are not people out there who would, and are capable, of working as a cop for less. If this were true, we would not be able to fill the ranks of the military.

With waiting lists for these jobs I know we’re not anywhere near to testing the limits of how low compensation could go.

I personally know quite people in law enforcement. Moreover, I know people going through the application and hiring process and have done the same myself.

Departments often put candidates through the process to determine who is qualified and just because you’re qualified does not mean you’re off to the police academy. Rather, you’re put in a queue, on a list, until there is an opening. The fact is there are many more QUALIFIED people willing to do these jobs than there are jobs available. We can know for certain that we’re paying too much up until the point we can’t fill the positions in a timely manner.

Unions in many industries and fields have ruined things for their constituents as they’ve struck and extracted so many wages that either the jobs go overseas or the employers collapses entirely. I’ve found that many of these people have a very, very, unrealistic idea of what they are worth outside their union job.

Lastly, I would like to clarify that I don’t blame police, fire, and other government employees for the largess they enjoy. I blame the politicians who bought their votes with unnecessary compensation packages, the bureaucrats they hired to put these packages together and make other employment decisions, and the people who kept voting them into office.

[faterikcartman]

Sorry, but I don’t buy a lot of your points jpinpb.

First, I don’t think zillions of people made money on the bubble because their salaries went up.

Second, I don’t think that public sector employees had the ability, en masse, to go out and make more in the public sector.

Moreover, I reject the assumption that there are not people out there who would, and are capable, of working as a cop for less. If this were true, we would not be able to fill the ranks of the military.

With waiting lists for these jobs I know we’re not anywhere near to testing the limits of how low compensation could go.

I personally know quite people in law enforcement. Moreover, I know people going through the application and hiring process and have done the same myself.

Departments often put candidates through the process to determine who is qualified and just because you’re qualified does not mean you’re off to the police academy. Rather, you’re put in a queue, on a list, until there is an opening. The fact is there are many more QUALIFIED people willing to do these jobs than there are jobs available. We can know for certain that we’re paying too much up until the point we can’t fill the positions in a timely manner.

Unions in many industries and fields have ruined things for their constituents as they’ve struck and extracted so many wages that either the jobs go overseas or the employers collapses entirely. I’ve found that many of these people have a very, very, unrealistic idea of what they are worth outside their union job.

Lastly, I would like to clarify that I don’t blame police, fire, and other government employees for the largess they enjoy. I blame the politicians who bought their votes with unnecessary compensation packages, the bureaucrats they hired to put these packages together and make other employment decisions, and the people who kept voting them into office.

[faterikcartman]

Sorry, but I don’t buy a lot of your points jpinpb.

First, I don’t think zillions of people made money on the bubble because their salaries went up.

Second, I don’t think that public sector employees had the ability, en masse, to go out and make more in the public sector.

Moreover, I reject the assumption that there are not people out there who would, and are capable, of working as a cop for less. If this were true, we would not be able to fill the ranks of the military.

With waiting lists for these jobs I know we’re not anywhere near to testing the limits of how low compensation could go.

I personally know quite people in law enforcement. Moreover, I know people going through the application and hiring process and have done the same myself.

Departments often put candidates through the process to determine who is qualified and just because you’re qualified does not mean you’re off to the police academy. Rather, you’re put in a queue, on a list, until there is an opening. The fact is there are many more QUALIFIED people willing to do these jobs than there are jobs available. We can know for certain that we’re paying too much up until the point we can’t fill the positions in a timely manner.

Unions in many industries and fields have ruined things for their constituents as they’ve struck and extracted so many wages that either the jobs go overseas or the employers collapses entirely. I’ve found that many of these people have a very, very, unrealistic idea of what they are worth outside their union job.

Lastly, I would like to clarify that I don’t blame police, fire, and other government employees for the largess they enjoy. I blame the politicians who bought their votes with unnecessary compensation packages, the bureaucrats they hired to put these packages together and make other employment decisions, and the people who kept voting them into office.

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