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June 9, 2016 at 10:27 AM #798548June 9, 2016 at 11:47 AM #798550
livinincali
ParticipantThe 2 major parties are both seeing signs of fracture. The republicans are probably closer to a split than the democrats but it wouldn’t be surprising to me if you saw a 3 or possible 4 party system in the not so distant future. The socially conservative base of the republican party is certainly unraveling as the glue to hold the party together. The parties for decades have been holding themselves together via moral/social issues but those issues are becoming less important to Americans’. How long ago was it that your stance on abortion was the biggest factor in the election? Now that’s probably not even in the top 10. Fiscal issues are becoming a much more important. Both Trump and Sanders popularity is one of a fiscal nature, not because of their stance on abortion, LGBTA rights, or some other social issue. It’s that shift in priorities which is baffling the political pundits.
The other big factor is the disregard for the rule of law in this country. There’s far too many people above the law and people are upset with it. There’s frauds everywhere and people want somebody to hold them accountable. Nobody ever goes to jail. Clinton isn’t going to have anybody locked up. Sanders or Trump might.
June 9, 2016 at 1:01 PM #798553FlyerInHi
GuestIsn’t Trump university a blatant case of fraud. Any intelligent can see that. I don’t think that’s even debatable.
June 9, 2016 at 1:15 PM #798554SK in CV
Participant[quote=FlyerInHi]Isn’t Trump university a blatant case of fraud. Any intelligent can see that. I don’t think that’s even debatable.[/quote]
I try not to pass judgment on people. But when someone says “Any intelligent (person) can see that”, about a court case where there has been zero public presentation of evidence, and very little in depth review of case, I make an exception. No. No, intelligent persons cannot see that. If you haven’t read every single pleading in the case, if you haven’t reviewed every single deposition in the case, there is no way for you to know if it was obvious fraud. Only a moron can see what hasn’t happened yet. If you weren’t a plaintiff, or at least a victim, you can’t know there was fraud. The process is in place for a reason. To determine which side is right. This case is likely to settle, and there never will be a trial available for public consumption. It’s unlikely all the documents related to the case will ever become public.
If you want to pass judgment on Trump because he’s been involved in 4,500 law suits, that makes sense. If you want to pass judgment on him because of what he’s said about the judge in this case, that makes sense. But to conclude that he’s committed fraud, based on nothing but claims of the plaintiffs, is stupid and presumptuous.
June 9, 2016 at 1:25 PM #798555Participant[quote=livinincali]The 2 major parties are both seeing signs of fracture. [/quote]
what sign’s of fracture are you seeing in the democratic party? The 2nd place finisher (and 3rd place, for that matter) has said he will do everything he can to get the winner elected. Not a single major player will refuse to endorse the candidate, and she’s already been endorsed by elected officials at both ends of the spectrum within the party. Where is there a fracture? You’re seeing things that do not exist.
Both sides are not the same.
June 9, 2016 at 1:30 PM #798556PCinSD
Guest[quote=SK in CV][quote=FlyerInHi]Isn’t Trump university a blatant case of fraud. Any intelligent can see that. I don’t think that’s even debatable.[/quote]
I try not to pass judgment on people. But when someone says “Any intelligent (person) can see that”, about a court case where there has been zero public presentation of evidence, and very little in depth review of case, I make an exception. No. No, intelligent persons cannot see that. If you haven’t read every single pleading in the case, if you haven’t reviewed every single deposition in the case, there is no way for you to know if it was obvious fraud. Only a moron can see what hasn’t happened yet. If you weren’t a plaintiff, or at least a victim, you can’t know there was fraud. The process is in place for a reason. To determine which side is right. This case is likely to settle, and there never will be a trial available for public consumption. It’s unlikely all the documents related to the case will ever become public.
If you want to pass judgment on Trump because he’s been involved in 4,500 law suits, that makes sense. If you want to pass judgment on him because of what he’s said about the judge in this case, that makes sense. But to conclude that he’s committed fraud, based on nothing but claims of the plaintiffs, is stupid and presumptuous.[/quote]
Beat me to it.
June 9, 2016 at 2:02 PM #798557GuestSK, ok, I deserve the scolding. You’re too intellectually honest that’s why I respect you.
My comment was based on the larger context of “people are sick of fraud everywhere and that Trump and Sanders will clean it up”. Sanders maybe. But Trump, really? Really?As you said, the two side sides are not the same.
One side is allowed to make outrageous comments such as saying that the Clinton foundation is a scam. And intelligent people must remain silent?
BTW, Trump and the right wing are abusive of the democratic process. They have created an assymetric system where they are allowed to make outrageous comments to contrast with very reasonable assessments.
Another thing, I don’t believe that one can be too intellectually honest. But one may wish to tamper that honesty with pragmatism. I don’t mind you scolding me to make a point of intellectual rectitude. But look, someone declared earlier that the Clinton foundation is a scam and that went unanswered. That’s the very reason we keep hearing “both sides are the same.”
June 9, 2016 at 2:49 PM #798558Guest[quote=livinincali]
The other big factor is the disregard for the rule of law in this country. There’s far too many people above the law and people are upset with it. There’s frauds everywhere and people want somebody to hold them accountable. Nobody ever goes to jail. Clinton isn’t going to have anybody locked up. Sanders or Trump might.[/quote]Considering Trump university, and knowing what we know about real estate get-rich-quick scams, how does an intelligent person on a real estate blog believe that Trump will abide by the rule of law and prosecute fraudsters?
I rephrased my earlier post for intellectual honesty and to correct my misstatement.
June 9, 2016 at 4:22 PM #798559
svelteParticipant[quote=livinincali]The 2 major parties are both seeing signs of fracture. The republicans are probably closer to a split than the democrats but it wouldn’t be surprising to me if you saw a 3 or possible 4 party system in the not so distant future…[/quote]
Totally agree and thought the same thing myself!
[quote=livinincali] The other big factor is the disregard for the rule of law in this country. There’s far too many people above the law and people are upset with it. There’s frauds everywhere and people want somebody to hold them accountable. Nobody ever goes to jail. Clinton isn’t going to have anybody locked up. Sanders or Trump might.[/quote]
Not just that, but those that contort the rules to please them. I think of this every time I see a car with a special sticker in the carpool lane. How self-righteous! What if the guy driving the regular car drives just one exit to work and actually uses less natural resources than the sticker guy? And “service dogs”. And Swiss bank accounts. And plopping your shit down at one machine while you go use another at the gym.
Geez, I’m starting to sound like an old man.
June 9, 2016 at 6:21 PM #798563joec
Participant[quote=SK in CV][quote=FlyerInHi]Isn’t Trump university a blatant case of fraud. Any intelligent can see that. I don’t think that’s even debatable.[/quote]
I try not to pass judgment on people. But when someone says “Any intelligent (person) can see that”, about a court case where there has been zero public presentation of evidence, and very little in depth review of case, I make an exception. No. No, intelligent persons cannot see that. If you haven’t read every single pleading in the case, if you haven’t reviewed every single deposition in the case, there is no way for you to know if it was obvious fraud. Only a moron can see what hasn’t happened yet. If you weren’t a plaintiff, or at least a victim, you can’t know there was fraud. The process is in place for a reason. To determine which side is right. This case is likely to settle, and there never will be a trial available for public consumption. It’s unlikely all the documents related to the case will ever become public.
If you want to pass judgment on Trump because he’s been involved in 4,500 law suits, that makes sense. If you want to pass judgment on him because of what he’s said about the judge in this case, that makes sense. But to conclude that he’s committed fraud, based on nothing but claims of the plaintiffs, is stupid and presumptuous.[/quote]
No idea on Trump U, but agree with the above as well.
As a total scam artist also, that Rich Dad Poor Dad guy also made some decent points such as understanding US tax rules where corporate taxes vs w-2 income, real estate, etc.
Maybe Trump U actually had decent educational material (maybe it doesn’t, I don’t know), but basic real estate concepts don’t have to be outright fraud I suppose.
Like a lot of Trump stuff, he probably didn’t even do much with it since he’s more in it to sell the name “Trump” so if they said he did have a say and he didn’t, yeah, he should get punished I think…
It’s like all these other for profit schools and I think Obama is preparing another volley to shut more of them down which is a good thing.
Cutting off all federal loan funding , etc…would probably solve this problem already since no money to pay for this crap school stuff and you won’t have much students.
My ideal scenario is we have a 4 way election.
Trump with his racist republicans, Romney with the old school establishment republicans, Hillary as the establishment democrat and Bernie as the democratic socialist party all running in a 4 way battle royale! 🙂
As for all the dems coming together, having voted for Obama and NOT voting for Hillary after Bernie’s loss, I suppose I am not “coming together” for her. In CA, it probably won’t matter anyways, and if it did, I suppose I am gambling I may just get sent off to a concentration camp like my fellow Chinese people if Trump gets elected.
Hopefully, they will impeach him first if it ever came to that.
June 9, 2016 at 10:34 PM #798571GuestJoec, I have teen to some “financial independence” seminars because li’ve been invited for free. They are pretty much scams. And people who get taken are not the brightest.
You do realize that Trump cited the internment of Japanese Americans as totally appropriate? I don’t foresee war with China, but I do think that there could be skirmishes and tensions in the South China Sea. That could make Asians (who are all regarded as Chinese kinda like people view all Muslims as Arab, and they think Sihks are Muslim) very unpopular.
You should watch the documentary on Maya Lin. She was born in USA but was the target of much hatred when she won the competition to design the Vietnam war memorial. And she had nothing to do with the war. Veterans felt that an Asian architect was equivalent to a slap on their faces.
June 9, 2016 at 11:13 PM #798572enron_by_the_sea
Participant[quote=joec]
My ideal scenario is we have a 4 way election.Trump with his racist republicans, Romney with the old school establishment republicans, Hillary as the establishment democrat and Bernie as the democratic socialist party all running in a 4 way battle royale! 🙂
As for all the dems coming together, having voted for Obama and NOT voting for Hillary after Bernie’s loss, I suppose I am not “coming together” for her. In CA, it probably won’t matter anyways, and if it did, I suppose I am gambling I may just get sent off to a concentration camp like my fellow Chinese people if Trump gets elected.
[/quote]Joec, if 4 strong candidates did end up running, there is a good chance that no one will win greater 50% of electoral votes (>271). If that happens, house of representatives votes to select president and senate selects vice president. So we may end up with president Trump anyway.
I feel that sometimes we need to be pragmatic and not fall into the trap of withdrawing from tough decisions or fall into the trap of making perfect the enemy of good…
Besides your vote, even in CA, matters. Winning popular vote does carry a lot of moral & symbolic value for any presidential candidate and your vote in CA does make difference to that popular vote.
(And personally I would never gamble with even 1% chance of concentration camp..)
June 10, 2016 at 5:58 PM #798604Participant[quote=enron_by_the_sea][quote=joec]
My ideal scenario is we have a 4 way election.Trump with his racist republicans, Romney with the old school establishment republicans, Hillary as the establishment democrat and Bernie as the democratic socialist party all running in a 4 way battle royale! 🙂
As for all the dems coming together, having voted for Obama and NOT voting for Hillary after Bernie’s loss, I suppose I am not “coming together” for her. In CA, it probably won’t matter anyways, and if it did, I suppose I am gambling I may just get sent off to a concentration camp like my fellow Chinese people if Trump gets elected.
[/quote]Joec, if 4 strong candidates did end up running, there is a good chance that no one will win greater 50% of electoral votes (>271). If that happens, house of representatives votes to select president and senate selects vice president. So we may end up with president Trump anyway.
I feel that sometimes we need to be pragmatic and not fall into the trap of withdrawing from tough decisions or fall into the trap of making perfect the enemy of good…
Besides your vote, even in CA, matters. Winning popular vote does carry a lot of moral & symbolic value for any presidential candidate and your vote in CA does make difference to that popular vote.
(And personally I would never gamble with even 1% chance of concentration camp..)[/quote]
Good point on the electoral college issue if no one gets enough votes. I think the republicans originally thought to put Bloomberg in the election to take a few states in case it was Bernie vs. Trump…
Sorry, not going to vote for Hillary so I suppose if Trump does win, I may end up in a camp…Or leave the country, assuming we make it out in time.
June 10, 2016 at 6:04 PM #798605Participant[quote=FlyerInHi]Joec, I have teen to some “financial independence” seminars because li’ve been invited for free. They are pretty much scams. And people who get taken are not the brightest.
You do realize that Trump cited the internment of Japanese Americans as totally appropriate? I don’t foresee war with China, but I do think that there could be skirmishes and tensions in the South China Sea. That could make Asians (who are all regarded as Chinese kinda like people view all Muslims as Arab, and they think Sihks are Muslim) very unpopular.
You should watch the documentary on Maya Lin. She was born in USA but was the target of much hatred when she won the competition to design the Vietnam war memorial. And she had nothing to do with the war. Veterans felt that an Asian architect was equivalent to a slap on their faces.[/quote]
I suppose if war were ever to happen with China, even if Trump wasn’t in the white house, I think this can happen already and even if not, ALL Asians would be hated across most of the country as much as Muslims are now. Doesn’t matter if you’re Japanese nor Korean neither.
Maybe my overall view of society/people in general is a lot worst than you (in my older age, I think I find most people are generally a**holes to begin with now…especially other drivers…dog owners are annoying too).
Not sure why, but I suppose I am a product of my environment and as mentioned in another post, maybe it’s just society (lack of trust for others), a bit of being in CA (much worst in LA), and just large town anonymous living…
June 21, 2016 at 2:50 PM #798938GuestI’m looking forward to watching the 2 political conventions on TV. Maybe I’ll go to Philly to feel the vibe. Or may Cleveland to check out the lakefront.
Trump said that he wants a show biz a the convention.
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/04/trump-is-right-gop-convention-needs-showbiz.htmlAnd now Hillary wants to compete.
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/06/clinton-democratic-convention-hamilton-224583 -
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