OT: Jury Duty! Help!

[DWCAP]

I go to my first jury duty ever next week. OH man you can just feel my excitement. ………………………… 🙁

For me I guess it boils down to this, someone F’ed up and now I gotta deal with it. I have no idea if the person is guilty, or if the cops got the wrong guy, but either way, someone screwed up.

As for how many innocent people I would be willing to put in jail for guilty men going free, that depends entirely on the offence. Reckless endangerment cause you drove too fast on the freeway (not drunk), your looking at a good forgive and forget juror. Just the act of being tried is punishment enough for that. Shot 17 people while driving around randomly and running over little kids and puppies, your screwed.

Either way though, I would much rather have it worked out with a judge who is actually trained and paid to do this, and then appeal to a jury trial if sufficient reasons can be found. That way, youd get called once a decade instead of once a year, and everyone can still get a trial by peers if they have a good case.

[scaredyclassic]

my experience is if you tell the court you are not going to be able to pay your rent/house payemnt because of missed work,a nd it’s true and you can back it up with numbers, those people seem to get kicked. it doesn’t work so well on a short trial.

Drink Heavily.

[scaredyclassic]

my experience is if you tell the court you are not going to be able to pay your rent/house payemnt because of missed work,a nd it’s true and you can back it up with numbers, those people seem to get kicked. it doesn’t work so well on a short trial.

Drink Heavily.

[scaredyclassic]

my experience is if you tell the court you are not going to be able to pay your rent/house payemnt because of missed work,a nd it’s true and you can back it up with numbers, those people seem to get kicked. it doesn’t work so well on a short trial.

Drink Heavily.

[scaredyclassic]

my experience is if you tell the court you are not going to be able to pay your rent/house payemnt because of missed work,a nd it’s true and you can back it up with numbers, those people seem to get kicked. it doesn’t work so well on a short trial.

Drink Heavily.

[scaredyclassic]

my experience is if you tell the court you are not going to be able to pay your rent/house payemnt because of missed work,a nd it’s true and you can back it up with numbers, those people seem to get kicked. it doesn’t work so well on a short trial.

Drink Heavily.

[scaredyclassic]

That’s a good idea for getting out of jury duty –the “sliding scale of reaosnable doubt”. The same standard of proof applies to all criminal cases — reasonable doubt — and must be applied uniformly from the peskiest misdemeaor to the most heinous felony (although there is this potential death penalty standard that is out there, “lingering doubt”, but set that aberrant concept aside because it’s unlikely to ever come up and only confuses a pretty confusing issue anyway)… if you think reasonable doubt means something different in different cases, then you cannot follow the law and cannot follow your oath and therefore cannot serve as a juror. Of course, everyone internally adjusts their reasonable doubt tolerance based ont he nature of the charges, even though this is impermissible. Would you really consider “reasonable doubt’ to mean the same thing in a torture/child molest murder as you would in a marijuana possession case? Would you apply it in theexact same way. or would you tend to err on the side of the conviction on bad facts?

Drink Heavily.

[scaredyclassic]

That’s a good idea for getting out of jury duty –the “sliding scale of reaosnable doubt”. The same standard of proof applies to all criminal cases — reasonable doubt — and must be applied uniformly from the peskiest misdemeaor to the most heinous felony (although there is this potential death penalty standard that is out there, “lingering doubt”, but set that aberrant concept aside because it’s unlikely to ever come up and only confuses a pretty confusing issue anyway)… if you think reasonable doubt means something different in different cases, then you cannot follow the law and cannot follow your oath and therefore cannot serve as a juror. Of course, everyone internally adjusts their reasonable doubt tolerance based ont he nature of the charges, even though this is impermissible. Would you really consider “reasonable doubt’ to mean the same thing in a torture/child molest murder as you would in a marijuana possession case? Would you apply it in theexact same way. or would you tend to err on the side of the conviction on bad facts?

Drink Heavily.

[scaredyclassic]

That’s a good idea for getting out of jury duty –the “sliding scale of reaosnable doubt”. The same standard of proof applies to all criminal cases — reasonable doubt — and must be applied uniformly from the peskiest misdemeaor to the most heinous felony (although there is this potential death penalty standard that is out there, “lingering doubt”, but set that aberrant concept aside because it’s unlikely to ever come up and only confuses a pretty confusing issue anyway)… if you think reasonable doubt means something different in different cases, then you cannot follow the law and cannot follow your oath and therefore cannot serve as a juror. Of course, everyone internally adjusts their reasonable doubt tolerance based ont he nature of the charges, even though this is impermissible. Would you really consider “reasonable doubt’ to mean the same thing in a torture/child molest murder as you would in a marijuana possession case? Would you apply it in theexact same way. or would you tend to err on the side of the conviction on bad facts?

Drink Heavily.

[scaredyclassic]

That’s a good idea for getting out of jury duty –the “sliding scale of reaosnable doubt”. The same standard of proof applies to all criminal cases — reasonable doubt — and must be applied uniformly from the peskiest misdemeaor to the most heinous felony (although there is this potential death penalty standard that is out there, “lingering doubt”, but set that aberrant concept aside because it’s unlikely to ever come up and only confuses a pretty confusing issue anyway)… if you think reasonable doubt means something different in different cases, then you cannot follow the law and cannot follow your oath and therefore cannot serve as a juror. Of course, everyone internally adjusts their reasonable doubt tolerance based ont he nature of the charges, even though this is impermissible. Would you really consider “reasonable doubt’ to mean the same thing in a torture/child molest murder as you would in a marijuana possession case? Would you apply it in theexact same way. or would you tend to err on the side of the conviction on bad facts?

Drink Heavily.

[scaredyclassic]

That’s a good idea for getting out of jury duty –the “sliding scale of reaosnable doubt”. The same standard of proof applies to all criminal cases — reasonable doubt — and must be applied uniformly from the peskiest misdemeaor to the most heinous felony (although there is this potential death penalty standard that is out there, “lingering doubt”, but set that aberrant concept aside because it’s unlikely to ever come up and only confuses a pretty confusing issue anyway)… if you think reasonable doubt means something different in different cases, then you cannot follow the law and cannot follow your oath and therefore cannot serve as a juror. Of course, everyone internally adjusts their reasonable doubt tolerance based ont he nature of the charges, even though this is impermissible. Would you really consider “reasonable doubt’ to mean the same thing in a torture/child molest murder as you would in a marijuana possession case? Would you apply it in theexact same way. or would you tend to err on the side of the conviction on bad facts?

Drink Heavily.

[dharmagirl]

This is really veering off topic but I’d love to know what you think about this, PublicDefender. It’s an interesting story….

About 18 mos ago, my best friend (who lives in Virginia) was quietly working away in her home office one morning (she’s a graphic designer). She was, I believe, still in her PJs.

The doorbell rang but she was on the phone (to me) so she ignored it. I still remember her comment, “oh, probably another salesperson or religious person!”

However, the ringing turned into banging. She looked out the window and saw people in windbreakers and mirrored sunglasses. She hung up with me and went downstairs.

Peeking thru the blinds of the front door, she saw a bunch of people at the door. She tentatively started to open the door, to see what was going on, and a big, strapping guy (a cop), started to shove his way into the door. She tells me that she totally panicked. Her first thought was, “omigod, people are trying to break into my house.” She hadnt even had her coffee yet. She pushed back on the door and shouted, “Nooooo!!!!”

The cop pushed harder, got in the door and slammed her against a wall bruising/scraping her elbow as he twisted her arms behind her back. Apparently he started screaming and spitting, “are you gonna resist? Huh? Huh?”

She let them know that she was injured and she was asked if she needed to go to a hospital. She said ‘no’ but they still took photos of her and the injury.

Turns out her husband, who I THINK is a secret squirrel for a govt agency (think Jack Bauer), was the target of an investigation (or his ‘team’ was). Cops/Feds had a trumped up excuse for a search warrant and barged in to tear the house apart. Apparently, during his mandatory polygraph (to get the job), he had admitted to occasionally indulging in internet porn (before marriage). So, the search warrant claimed that they were looking for child pornography. The search team consisted of agents, police, etc.

They found nothing of course.

In the meantime, her husband insisted that she go to the ER that night so they did. She was so shaken up, couldnt stop crying, and had some pain for the banged up elbow.

She didnt want to get into it with the ER people and told them that she “was in the wrong place at the wrong time” but that she was pushed by a police officer.

They also scheduled appointments with attorneys. Linda thought she might be interrogated and wanted some representation. Her husband also found an attorney – just in case.

All computer equipment was confiscated (Linda’s graphic design work had to come to a halt while the “forensics” went for 10 days) She was making up excuses to clients because she didnt feel she could tell them the truth.

When Linda finally called to see if she could get HER computers back (she wasnt being investigagted) the police informed her that there was a warrant for her arrest. A felony charge of “obstruction of justice.” Apparently for trying to slam the door when she didnt even fully know what was happening that morning.

This woman is intelligent, articulate, mild-mannered and I think her biggest crime to date has been a speeding ticket 10 years ago.

Her lawyer advised her that in any other state – not “law and order red-state Virginia” this charge would be laughable and thrown out. But he assured her that if all of the agents/cops stuck together she could very well be screwed and end up with a felony. Apparently he spoke to some of the agents who were at the door and they all insisted that she was in the wrong. They said that the cop identified himself as a police officer and she shoved the door to block him. Linda doesnt remember him saying anything. SHe just remembers feeling scared out of her mind.

For months she was an absolute wreck. She’s been treated for depression and her attorney also told her that the prosecutor might try to make her look crazy to a jury.

I urged her to insist on a trial. It all seemed so ridiculous that I thought it would be dismissed. But all Linda could think was “convicted felon for worrying that my house was broken into.”

She was eventually offered a plea of “disorderly conduct” (misdemeanor) and took it.

Now, she has been approached about a fabulous job in NYC and is terrified to tell her prospective employer that she has a misdemeanor on her record. She told me that VA does not expunge records like other states. Last week she said, “HOW do I explain this?!!”

Sorry this is so long, but this has REALLY bothered me. With all of the crap going on in the world, my friend had to deal with this.

Another friend – a former public defender in Northern CA – said she was probably charged to protect law enforcement from being sued. Because Linda was injured I guess she could have sued. PD friend said with a conviction she would not be able to sue the police.

Isn’t this crazy? I think it was abuse of the judicial system at its best. Meanwhile, Linda has truly not been the same. Her husband thinks she is suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder. She’s lost a lot of weight, is depressed and panics if she sees a patrol car. It’s sad.

This is one situation that does, indeed, make me want to Drink Heavily…

[dharmagirl]

This is really veering off topic but I’d love to know what you think about this, PublicDefender. It’s an interesting story….

About 18 mos ago, my best friend (who lives in Virginia) was quietly working away in her home office one morning (she’s a graphic designer). She was, I believe, still in her PJs.

The doorbell rang but she was on the phone (to me) so she ignored it. I still remember her comment, “oh, probably another salesperson or religious person!”

However, the ringing turned into banging. She looked out the window and saw people in windbreakers and mirrored sunglasses. She hung up with me and went downstairs.

Peeking thru the blinds of the front door, she saw a bunch of people at the door. She tentatively started to open the door, to see what was going on, and a big, strapping guy (a cop), started to shove his way into the door. She tells me that she totally panicked. Her first thought was, “omigod, people are trying to break into my house.” She hadnt even had her coffee yet. She pushed back on the door and shouted, “Nooooo!!!!”

The cop pushed harder, got in the door and slammed her against a wall bruising/scraping her elbow as he twisted her arms behind her back. Apparently he started screaming and spitting, “are you gonna resist? Huh? Huh?”

She let them know that she was injured and she was asked if she needed to go to a hospital. She said ‘no’ but they still took photos of her and the injury.

Turns out her husband, who I THINK is a secret squirrel for a govt agency (think Jack Bauer), was the target of an investigation (or his ‘team’ was). Cops/Feds had a trumped up excuse for a search warrant and barged in to tear the house apart. Apparently, during his mandatory polygraph (to get the job), he had admitted to occasionally indulging in internet porn (before marriage). So, the search warrant claimed that they were looking for child pornography. The search team consisted of agents, police, etc.

They found nothing of course.

In the meantime, her husband insisted that she go to the ER that night so they did. She was so shaken up, couldnt stop crying, and had some pain for the banged up elbow.

She didnt want to get into it with the ER people and told them that she “was in the wrong place at the wrong time” but that she was pushed by a police officer.

They also scheduled appointments with attorneys. Linda thought she might be interrogated and wanted some representation. Her husband also found an attorney – just in case.

All computer equipment was confiscated (Linda’s graphic design work had to come to a halt while the “forensics” went for 10 days) She was making up excuses to clients because she didnt feel she could tell them the truth.

When Linda finally called to see if she could get HER computers back (she wasnt being investigagted) the police informed her that there was a warrant for her arrest. A felony charge of “obstruction of justice.” Apparently for trying to slam the door when she didnt even fully know what was happening that morning.

This woman is intelligent, articulate, mild-mannered and I think her biggest crime to date has been a speeding ticket 10 years ago.

Her lawyer advised her that in any other state – not “law and order red-state Virginia” this charge would be laughable and thrown out. But he assured her that if all of the agents/cops stuck together she could very well be screwed and end up with a felony. Apparently he spoke to some of the agents who were at the door and they all insisted that she was in the wrong. They said that the cop identified himself as a police officer and she shoved the door to block him. Linda doesnt remember him saying anything. SHe just remembers feeling scared out of her mind.

For months she was an absolute wreck. She’s been treated for depression and her attorney also told her that the prosecutor might try to make her look crazy to a jury.

I urged her to insist on a trial. It all seemed so ridiculous that I thought it would be dismissed. But all Linda could think was “convicted felon for worrying that my house was broken into.”

She was eventually offered a plea of “disorderly conduct” (misdemeanor) and took it.

Now, she has been approached about a fabulous job in NYC and is terrified to tell her prospective employer that she has a misdemeanor on her record. She told me that VA does not expunge records like other states. Last week she said, “HOW do I explain this?!!”

Sorry this is so long, but this has REALLY bothered me. With all of the crap going on in the world, my friend had to deal with this.

Another friend – a former public defender in Northern CA – said she was probably charged to protect law enforcement from being sued. Because Linda was injured I guess she could have sued. PD friend said with a conviction she would not be able to sue the police.

Isn’t this crazy? I think it was abuse of the judicial system at its best. Meanwhile, Linda has truly not been the same. Her husband thinks she is suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder. She’s lost a lot of weight, is depressed and panics if she sees a patrol car. It’s sad.

This is one situation that does, indeed, make me want to Drink Heavily…

[dharmagirl]

This is really veering off topic but I’d love to know what you think about this, PublicDefender. It’s an interesting story….

About 18 mos ago, my best friend (who lives in Virginia) was quietly working away in her home office one morning (she’s a graphic designer). She was, I believe, still in her PJs.

The doorbell rang but she was on the phone (to me) so she ignored it. I still remember her comment, “oh, probably another salesperson or religious person!”

However, the ringing turned into banging. She looked out the window and saw people in windbreakers and mirrored sunglasses. She hung up with me and went downstairs.

Peeking thru the blinds of the front door, she saw a bunch of people at the door. She tentatively started to open the door, to see what was going on, and a big, strapping guy (a cop), started to shove his way into the door. She tells me that she totally panicked. Her first thought was, “omigod, people are trying to break into my house.” She hadnt even had her coffee yet. She pushed back on the door and shouted, “Nooooo!!!!”

The cop pushed harder, got in the door and slammed her against a wall bruising/scraping her elbow as he twisted her arms behind her back. Apparently he started screaming and spitting, “are you gonna resist? Huh? Huh?”

She let them know that she was injured and she was asked if she needed to go to a hospital. She said ‘no’ but they still took photos of her and the injury.

Turns out her husband, who I THINK is a secret squirrel for a govt agency (think Jack Bauer), was the target of an investigation (or his ‘team’ was). Cops/Feds had a trumped up excuse for a search warrant and barged in to tear the house apart. Apparently, during his mandatory polygraph (to get the job), he had admitted to occasionally indulging in internet porn (before marriage). So, the search warrant claimed that they were looking for child pornography. The search team consisted of agents, police, etc.

They found nothing of course.

In the meantime, her husband insisted that she go to the ER that night so they did. She was so shaken up, couldnt stop crying, and had some pain for the banged up elbow.

She didnt want to get into it with the ER people and told them that she “was in the wrong place at the wrong time” but that she was pushed by a police officer.

They also scheduled appointments with attorneys. Linda thought she might be interrogated and wanted some representation. Her husband also found an attorney – just in case.

All computer equipment was confiscated (Linda’s graphic design work had to come to a halt while the “forensics” went for 10 days) She was making up excuses to clients because she didnt feel she could tell them the truth.

When Linda finally called to see if she could get HER computers back (she wasnt being investigagted) the police informed her that there was a warrant for her arrest. A felony charge of “obstruction of justice.” Apparently for trying to slam the door when she didnt even fully know what was happening that morning.

This woman is intelligent, articulate, mild-mannered and I think her biggest crime to date has been a speeding ticket 10 years ago.

Her lawyer advised her that in any other state – not “law and order red-state Virginia” this charge would be laughable and thrown out. But he assured her that if all of the agents/cops stuck together she could very well be screwed and end up with a felony. Apparently he spoke to some of the agents who were at the door and they all insisted that she was in the wrong. They said that the cop identified himself as a police officer and she shoved the door to block him. Linda doesnt remember him saying anything. SHe just remembers feeling scared out of her mind.

For months she was an absolute wreck. She’s been treated for depression and her attorney also told her that the prosecutor might try to make her look crazy to a jury.

I urged her to insist on a trial. It all seemed so ridiculous that I thought it would be dismissed. But all Linda could think was “convicted felon for worrying that my house was broken into.”

She was eventually offered a plea of “disorderly conduct” (misdemeanor) and took it.

Now, she has been approached about a fabulous job in NYC and is terrified to tell her prospective employer that she has a misdemeanor on her record. She told me that VA does not expunge records like other states. Last week she said, “HOW do I explain this?!!”

Sorry this is so long, but this has REALLY bothered me. With all of the crap going on in the world, my friend had to deal with this.

Another friend – a former public defender in Northern CA – said she was probably charged to protect law enforcement from being sued. Because Linda was injured I guess she could have sued. PD friend said with a conviction she would not be able to sue the police.

Isn’t this crazy? I think it was abuse of the judicial system at its best. Meanwhile, Linda has truly not been the same. Her husband thinks she is suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder. She’s lost a lot of weight, is depressed and panics if she sees a patrol car. It’s sad.

This is one situation that does, indeed, make me want to Drink Heavily…

[dharmagirl]

This is really veering off topic but I’d love to know what you think about this, PublicDefender. It’s an interesting story….

About 18 mos ago, my best friend (who lives in Virginia) was quietly working away in her home office one morning (she’s a graphic designer). She was, I believe, still in her PJs.

The doorbell rang but she was on the phone (to me) so she ignored it. I still remember her comment, “oh, probably another salesperson or religious person!”

However, the ringing turned into banging. She looked out the window and saw people in windbreakers and mirrored sunglasses. She hung up with me and went downstairs.

Peeking thru the blinds of the front door, she saw a bunch of people at the door. She tentatively started to open the door, to see what was going on, and a big, strapping guy (a cop), started to shove his way into the door. She tells me that she totally panicked. Her first thought was, “omigod, people are trying to break into my house.” She hadnt even had her coffee yet. She pushed back on the door and shouted, “Nooooo!!!!”

The cop pushed harder, got in the door and slammed her against a wall bruising/scraping her elbow as he twisted her arms behind her back. Apparently he started screaming and spitting, “are you gonna resist? Huh? Huh?”

She let them know that she was injured and she was asked if she needed to go to a hospital. She said ‘no’ but they still took photos of her and the injury.

Turns out her husband, who I THINK is a secret squirrel for a govt agency (think Jack Bauer), was the target of an investigation (or his ‘team’ was). Cops/Feds had a trumped up excuse for a search warrant and barged in to tear the house apart. Apparently, during his mandatory polygraph (to get the job), he had admitted to occasionally indulging in internet porn (before marriage). So, the search warrant claimed that they were looking for child pornography. The search team consisted of agents, police, etc.

They found nothing of course.

In the meantime, her husband insisted that she go to the ER that night so they did. She was so shaken up, couldnt stop crying, and had some pain for the banged up elbow.

She didnt want to get into it with the ER people and told them that she “was in the wrong place at the wrong time” but that she was pushed by a police officer.

They also scheduled appointments with attorneys. Linda thought she might be interrogated and wanted some representation. Her husband also found an attorney – just in case.

All computer equipment was confiscated (Linda’s graphic design work had to come to a halt while the “forensics” went for 10 days) She was making up excuses to clients because she didnt feel she could tell them the truth.

When Linda finally called to see if she could get HER computers back (she wasnt being investigagted) the police informed her that there was a warrant for her arrest. A felony charge of “obstruction of justice.” Apparently for trying to slam the door when she didnt even fully know what was happening that morning.

This woman is intelligent, articulate, mild-mannered and I think her biggest crime to date has been a speeding ticket 10 years ago.

Her lawyer advised her that in any other state – not “law and order red-state Virginia” this charge would be laughable and thrown out. But he assured her that if all of the agents/cops stuck together she could very well be screwed and end up with a felony. Apparently he spoke to some of the agents who were at the door and they all insisted that she was in the wrong. They said that the cop identified himself as a police officer and she shoved the door to block him. Linda doesnt remember him saying anything. SHe just remembers feeling scared out of her mind.

For months she was an absolute wreck. She’s been treated for depression and her attorney also told her that the prosecutor might try to make her look crazy to a jury.

I urged her to insist on a trial. It all seemed so ridiculous that I thought it would be dismissed. But all Linda could think was “convicted felon for worrying that my house was broken into.”

She was eventually offered a plea of “disorderly conduct” (misdemeanor) and took it.

Now, she has been approached about a fabulous job in NYC and is terrified to tell her prospective employer that she has a misdemeanor on her record. She told me that VA does not expunge records like other states. Last week she said, “HOW do I explain this?!!”

Sorry this is so long, but this has REALLY bothered me. With all of the crap going on in the world, my friend had to deal with this.

Another friend – a former public defender in Northern CA – said she was probably charged to protect law enforcement from being sued. Because Linda was injured I guess she could have sued. PD friend said with a conviction she would not be able to sue the police.

Isn’t this crazy? I think it was abuse of the judicial system at its best. Meanwhile, Linda has truly not been the same. Her husband thinks she is suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder. She’s lost a lot of weight, is depressed and panics if she sees a patrol car. It’s sad.

This is one situation that does, indeed, make me want to Drink Heavily…

[Author]

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