OT: How much baggage will you accept?

[NotCranky]

I guess I has jumped around reading old comments , CaRenter.
You can label the different bad acts by gender but it doesn’t change the water seeks it’s own level thing. Since you agree with me on the water seeks it’s own level, I find it odd, or perhaps hypocritical that you decidedly favor women on break-ups. I love you like a sister CaRenter,but like my real life sisters you are biased about these things weighing in favor of women. Probably as natural as treating men like they are permanently inadequate once the nest is full but demanding slave like responsibility from them just the same. Men don;’t get what they want and need to the degree that women do under these circumstances and I have not even mentioned sex yet. In this light looking for a newer model makes more sense and does not interfere with water seeks it’s own level or make men or women worse than the other one. It’s complicated.

Abandonment is interesting. There are biological forces that apply here too.
The woman knows the kids are hers. The mother in law knows the kids are hers.
Up until a few years ago the man new he had to work with or without kids and often but not always gives child support. Those are cultural aspects.

So, I am not saying this stuff is ideal but if you want to look like a broad minded person on this topic and not your basic man hater, you will have to look at this topic more broadly and express your views with a nuance that reflects that you have. But nobody changes the way they are , so carry on.

I think I am going to strut now.

I don’t usually like to stifle people but if you argue back at all you will be proving my point. Back to the aforementioned strutting.

[NotCranky]

Good discussion, A lot of life’s fulfillment , by design , has to come on separate terms. We are not clones. Separate but not aloof is about right at times, plain old fashioned together is good. Sometimes together and aloof is necessary ,no big wall building ,show respect on decision making …keep your promises wherever you go until and unless you undo them first .

I think it’s less about “baggage” and more about deep inner qualities.
Be careful that the baggage thing is not too much about paranoid score keeping and greed for face saving and being able to paint some kind of phony picture for yourself , your family and friends and the world.

[njtosd]

[quote=Blogstar]I guess I has jumped around reading old comments , CaRenter.
You can label the different bad acts by gender but it doesn’t change the water seeks it’s own level thing. Since you agree with me on the water seeks it’s own level, I find it odd, or perhaps hypocritical that you decidedly favor women on break-ups. I love you like a sister CaRenter,but like my real life sisters you are biased about these things weighing in favor of women. Probably as natural as treating men like they are permanently inadequate once the nest is full but demanding slave like responsibility from them just the same. Men don;’t get what they want and need to the degree that women do under these circumstances and I have not even mentioned sex yet. In this light looking for a newer model makes more sense and does not interfere with water seeks it’s own level or make men or women worse than the other one. It’s complicated.

Abandonment is interesting. There are biological forces that apply here too.
The woman knows the kids are hers. The mother in law knows the kids are hers.
Up until a few years ago the man new he had to work with or without kids and often but not always gives child support. Those are cultural aspects.

So, I am not saying this stuff is ideal but if you want to look like a broad minded person on this topic and not your basic man hater, you will have to look at this topic more broadly and express your views with a nuance that reflects that you have. But nobody changes the way they are , so carry on.

I think I am going to strut now.

I don’t usually like to stifle people but if you argue back at all you will be proving my point. Back to the aforementioned strutting.[/quote]

Can I just say it is a little funny that you have said (in different words, of course) that unless CA Renter lets you have the last word, she is a man hater? That sounds a little Fred Flintstone to me. And Fred was not a bad guy, of course, but I don’t think most men aspire to be him. He was a “star” though, a word that you’ve included in your screen name (also a little funny), and he also liked to strut, so maybe . . .

[scaredyclassic]

[quote=njtosd][quote=Blogstar]I guess I has jumped around reading old comments , CaRenter.
You can label the different bad acts by gender but it doesn’t change the water seeks it’s own level thing. Since you agree with me on the water seeks it’s own level, I find it odd, or perhaps hypocritical that you decidedly favor women on break-ups. I love you like a sister CaRenter,but like my real life sisters you are biased about these things weighing in favor of women. Probably as natural as treating men like they are permanently inadequate once the nest is full but demanding slave like responsibility from them just the same. Men don;’t get what they want and need to the degree that women do under these circumstances and I have not even mentioned sex yet. In this light looking for a newer model makes more sense and does not interfere with water seeks it’s own level or make men or women worse than the other one. It’s complicated.

Abandonment is interesting. There are biological forces that apply here too.
The woman knows the kids are hers. The mother in law knows the kids are hers.
Up until a few years ago the man new he had to work with or without kids and often but not always gives child support. Those are cultural aspects.

So, I am not saying this stuff is ideal but if you want to look like a broad minded person on this topic and not your basic man hater, you will have to look at this topic more broadly and express your views with a nuance that reflects that you have. But nobody changes the way they are , so carry on.

I think I am going to strut now.

I don’t usually like to stifle people but if you argue back at all you will be proving my point. Back to the aforementioned strutting.[/quote]

Can I just say it is a little funny that you have said (in different words, of course) that unless CA Renter lets you have the last word, she is a man hater? That sounds a little Fred Flintstone to me. And Fred was not a bad guy, of course, but I don’t think most men aspire to be him. He was a “star” though, a word that you’ve included in your screen name (also a little funny), and he also liked to strut, so maybe . . .[/quote]

I’m not a doclove guy but I’ve been influenced by similar thinkers and come to my own conclusions. Early on I was greatly influenced by James Thurber’s THE WAR BETWEEN MEN AND WOMEN.

Make no mistake. It is boys v. Girls.

Do not let the girls win.

Of course it’s better for women to vent to other women. Men think many of womens concerns are unreasonable and nuts and often directly accusatory and certainly unhappy. Hell even other girlfriends eventually get tired of hearing the exact same complaints…when the root of it all often comes back to the guys general failures…I wonder if the tables were turned and vented at their women in the exact same way if women would just sit and listen?

No.

[NotCranky]

[quote=njtosd][quote=Blogstar]I guess I has jumped around reading old comments , CaRenter.
You can label the different bad acts by gender but it doesn’t change the water seeks it’s own level thing. Since you agree with me on the water seeks it’s own level, I find it odd, or perhaps hypocritical that you decidedly favor women on break-ups. I love you like a sister CaRenter,but like my real life sisters you are biased about these things weighing in favor of women. Probably as natural as treating men like they are permanently inadequate once the nest is full but demanding slave like responsibility from them just the same. Men don;’t get what they want and need to the degree that women do under these circumstances and I have not even mentioned sex yet. In this light looking for a newer model makes more sense and does not interfere with water seeks it’s own level or make men or women worse than the other one. It’s complicated.

Abandonment is interesting. There are biological forces that apply here too.
The woman knows the kids are hers. The mother in law knows the kids are hers.
Up until a few years ago the man new he had to work with or without kids and often but not always gives child support. Those are cultural aspects.

So, I am not saying this stuff is ideal but if you want to look like a broad minded person on this topic and not your basic man hater, you will have to look at this topic more broadly and express your views with a nuance that reflects that you have. But nobody changes the way they are , so carry on.

I think I am going to strut now.

I don’t usually like to stifle people but if you argue back at all you will be proving my point. Back to the aforementioned strutting.[/quote]

Can I just say it is a little funny that you have said (in different words, of course) that unless CA Renter lets you have the last word, she is a man hater? That sounds a little Fred Flintstone to me. And Fred was not a bad guy, of course, but I don’t think most men aspire to be him. He was a “star” though, a word that you’ve included in your screen name (also a little funny), and he also liked to strut, so maybe . . .[/quote]

I didn’t say she was a basic man hater I was saying “if she didn’t want to look like a basic man hater” and she will be proving my point that nobody changes. Yes I am playing with scaredy’s tough guy persona in part and CaRenter probably knows that. We play around a lot here. Wilma was hot.

Bunch of random letters, you need to get off my jockstrap. I require that women point out several awesome things I did or said to every slight negative they might make a peep about. ..or else the should stifle it.

[scaredyclassic]

[quote=Blogstar][quote=njtosd][quote=Blogstar]I guess I has jumped around reading old comments , CaRenter.
You can label the different bad acts by gender but it doesn’t change the water seeks it’s own level thing. Since you agree with me on the water seeks it’s own level, I find it odd, or perhaps hypocritical that you decidedly favor women on break-ups. I love you like a sister CaRenter,but like my real life sisters you are biased about these things weighing in favor of women. Probably as natural as treating men like they are permanently inadequate once the nest is full but demanding slave like responsibility from them just the same. Men don;’t get what they want and need to the degree that women do under these circumstances and I have not even mentioned sex yet. In this light looking for a newer model makes more sense and does not interfere with water seeks it’s own level or make men or women worse than the other one. It’s complicated.

Abandonment is interesting. There are biological forces that apply here too.
The woman knows the kids are hers. The mother in law knows the kids are hers.
Up until a few years ago the man new he had to work with or without kids and often but not always gives child support. Those are cultural aspects.

So, I am not saying this stuff is ideal but if you want to look like a broad minded person on this topic and not your basic man hater, you will have to look at this topic more broadly and express your views with a nuance that reflects that you have. But nobody changes the way they are , so carry on.

I think I am going to strut now.

I don’t usually like to stifle people but if you argue back at all you will be proving my point. Back to the aforementioned strutting.[/quote]

Can I just say it is a little funny that you have said (in different words, of course) that unless CA Renter lets you have the last word, she is a man hater? That sounds a little Fred Flintstone to me. And Fred was not a bad guy, of course, but I don’t think most men aspire to be him. He was a “star” though, a word that you’ve included in your screen name (also a little funny), and he also liked to strut, so maybe . . .[/quote]

I didn’t say she was a basic man hater I was saying “if she didn’t want to look like a basic man hater” and she will be proving my point that nobody changes. Yes I am playing with scaredy’s tough guy persona in part and CaRenter probably knows that. We play around a lot here. Wilma was hot.

Bunch of random letters, you need to get off my jockstrap.[/quote]

Wilma was not real. Now Alice kramden from the honeymooners she was real. She helped Ralph to be better … but they could barely deal and they had no kids.

how would life have gone for Ralph in the 70s and after. Good dude. Works. Cares for his people.

she would’ve dumped his ass.

[scaredyclassic]

[quote=Blogstar][quote=njtosd][quote=Blogstar]I guess I has jumped around reading old comments , CaRenter.
You can label the different bad acts by gender but it doesn’t change the water seeks it’s own level thing. Since you agree with me on the water seeks it’s own level, I find it odd, or perhaps hypocritical that you decidedly favor women on break-ups. I love you like a sister CaRenter,but like my real life sisters you are biased about these things weighing in favor of women. Probably as natural as treating men like they are permanently inadequate once the nest is full but demanding slave like responsibility from them just the same. Men don;’t get what they want and need to the degree that women do under these circumstances and I have not even mentioned sex yet. In this light looking for a newer model makes more sense and does not interfere with water seeks it’s own level or make men or women worse than the other one. It’s complicated.

Abandonment is interesting. There are biological forces that apply here too.
The woman knows the kids are hers. The mother in law knows the kids are hers.
Up until a few years ago the man new he had to work with or without kids and often but not always gives child support. Those are cultural aspects.

So, I am not saying this stuff is ideal but if you want to look like a broad minded person on this topic and not your basic man hater, you will have to look at this topic more broadly and express your views with a nuance that reflects that you have. But nobody changes the way they are , so carry on.

I think I am going to strut now.

I don’t usually like to stifle people but if you argue back at all you will be proving my point. Back to the aforementioned strutting.[/quote]

Can I just say it is a little funny that you have said (in different words, of course) that unless CA Renter lets you have the last word, she is a man hater? That sounds a little Fred Flintstone to me. And Fred was not a bad guy, of course, but I don’t think most men aspire to be him. He was a “star” though, a word that you’ve included in your screen name (also a little funny), and he also liked to strut, so maybe . . .[/quote]

I didn’t say she was a basic man hater I was saying “if she didn’t want to look like a basic man hater” and she will be proving my point that nobody changes. Yes I am playing with scaredy’s tough guy persona in part and CaRenter probably knows that. We play around a lot here. Wilma was hot.

Bunch of random letters, you need to get off my jockstrap. I require that women point out several awesome things I did or said to every slight negative they might make a peep about. ..or else the should stifle it.[/quote]

I can’t even be in earshot of my wife venting to friends in person or on the phone. It makes me feel shitty.

[njtosd]

[quote=scaredyclassic]

Hell even other girlfriends eventually get tired of hearing the exact same complaints…when the root of it all often comes back to the guys general failures…I wonder if the tables were turned and vented at their women in the exact same way if women would just sit and listen?

No.[/quote]

There’s the rub. Do you have a problem with feelings or complaints? In women’s Venn Diagram, communications representing “Feelings” are a big circle within which “Complaints” are a much smaller circle. Men would look at the same communications and see the second circle as filling the first. And I for one love talking to my girlfriends – and with the exception of one, and I don’t perceive them as complaining regularly.

Men want women to be happy all the time – they love being around happy smiling women. Of course, that is a completely unreasonable and unattainable expectation. But when women are anything but happy, even if their spouse/boyfriend is completely out of control of the situation, the husband/bf somehow perceives it as an accusation that they’ve failed. Could someone explain this to me?

I don’t complain about my husband to my friends – I wouldn’t want him to do that so I don’t. And contrary to all that I’ve heard here, I married him for a lot of reasons, including the fact that I respected him (and I still do). He makes more even-headed decisions than I do (in many cases), he has a knack for business that I don’t and when the kids were littler he had the energy to come up with funny stories for them at bedtime. I’m a happy camper.

[NotCranky]

I am sorry CArenter, A family woman claiming to need escape from being “tired of living for other people” is very much playing the victim. Nobody made her get married to that sperm donor and have babies. OMG. I think people would have to have other reasons, selfish or not, because this excuse is shameful. Better to just say anything else as a reason.

I can’t speak to your wedding vows but “tired of living for other people” isn’t part of most couples agreements.

I do , solemnly swear that unless I get tired of living for other people…blah , blah blah…

[scaredyclassic]

[quote=Blogstar]I am sorry CArenter, A family woman claiming to need escape from being “tired of living for other people” is very much playing the victim. Nobody made her get married to that sperm donor and have babies. OMG. I think people would have to have other reasons, selfish or not, because this excuse is shameful. Better to just say anything else as a reason.

I can’t speak to your wedding vows but “tired of living for other people” isn’t part of most couples agreements.

I do , solemnly swear that unless I get tired of living for other people…blah , blah blah…[/quote]

let’s please try to return our focus to kevs ex where it belings. Kevs ex.

Kevs ex. Kev… sex.

Huh.

[scaredyclassic]

[quote=njtosd][quote=scaredyclassic]

Hell even other girlfriends eventually get tired of hearing the exact same complaints…when the root of it all often comes back to the guys general failures…I wonder if the tables were turned and vented at their women in the exact same way if women would just sit and listen?

No.[/quote]

There’s the rub. Do you have a problem with feelings or complaints? In women’s Venn Diagram, communications representing “Feelings” are a big circle within which “Complaints” are a much smaller circle. Men would look at the same communications and see the second circle as filling the first. And I for one love talking to my girlfriends – and with the exception of one, and I don’t perceive them as complaining regularly.

Men want women to be happy all the time – they love being around happy smiling women. Of course, that is a completely unreasonable and unattainable expectation. But when women are anything but happy, even if their spouse/boyfriend is completely out of control of the situation, the husband/bf somehow perceives it as an accusation that they’ve failed. Could someone explain this to me?
H
I don’t complain about my husband to my friends – I wouldn’t want him to do that so I don’t. And contrary to all that I’ve heard here, I married him for a lot of reasons, including the fact that I respected him (and I still do). He makes more even-headed decisions than I do (in many cases), he has a knack for business that I don’t and when the kids were littler he had the energy to come up with funny stories for them at bedtime. I’m a happy camper.[/quote]

all the time?

Talk to guys. I think they’d be happy with a 2 percent percent vaguely satisfied to morose ratio.

[scaredyclassic]

[quote=Blogstar]I am sorry CArenter, A family woman claiming to need escape from being “tired of living for other people” is very much playing the victim. Nobody made her get married to that sperm donor and have babies. OMG. I think people would have to have other reasons, selfish or not, because this excuse is shameful. Better to just say anything else as a reason.

I can’t speak to your wedding vows but “tired of living for other people” isn’t part of most couples agreements.

I do , solemnly swear that unless I get tired of living for other people…blah , blah blah…[/quote]

It’s more likely for a woman to suddenly realize life sucks and blame her spouse than the reverse. Now women will say that’s cause men are lame ass emotionally retarded slackers…which is usually not true. Usually…they’re just the same basic dude she hooked up with…

[NotCranky]

I think Kev is too smart to”live for other people” for 20 years or more but he hasn’t realized it yet.

[NotCranky]

LAME ASS EMOTIONALLY RETARDED SLACKER!

It’s so tempting to get that printed up and stick it on something. Maybe my mini-van? I have to gain pot belly weight to put it on a T-shirt and have it fit.

Vow Redos.
Do you take this Lame Ass Emotionally Retarded Slacker to be your lawfully wedded husband until you get tired of living for other people?

[njtosd]

[quote=scaredyclassic]

all the time?

Talk to guys. I think they’d be happy with a 2 percent percent vaguely satisfied to morose ratio.[/quote]

Really? Then I am killing it! Especially since I just divested myself of a PITA client (come to think of it, an impossible to please woman). Life seems pretty rosy.

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