OT: How badly are doctors/hospitals getting squeezed by insurance co?

[patientrenter]

[quote=paramount]patientrenter: My statements are not in conflict because I did not define what those limitations might be.

Medical care could be provided that was not a matter of life or death. I’m sure it happens everyday at any given emergency room.[/quote]

paramount, I may have misunderstood you. I thought you said that (a) no one should be denied lifesaving medical care, and (b) that there should be limitations on health spending.

Since (as others pointed out) a very high proportion of all medical costs are incurred to extend life by weeks or months, most efforts to limit medical expenses (not all) would have to involve allowing people who would live until tomorrow with expensive care to instead die today with less expensive care. So lifesaving care would be denied when the saving is for a very short time only. (We all die, so all lifesaving care just postpones our death. The key questions are how long the postponement is for, and what quality of life we enjoy in the meanwhile.)

[bobby]

[quote=paramount]patientrenter: My statements are not in conflict because I did not define what those limitations might be.

[/quote]

there in lies the problem.
everyone has a different idea of what the appropriate limit may be.
during my rotations in the ICU as a medical student and resident, I witnessed some family members demanding “every thing be done. cost be damned” for the dying patients. Guess who ended up footing the bill?
that $500,000 to keep the patient alive 4 weeks longer could have been used to educate or treat hundreds of needy kids.
look at Octomom and her $1.5million hospital stay. Not to mention the lifetime cost to raise those medically needy kids. For her, society should pay b/c that is the “appropriate limit”.

[bobby]

[quote=paramount]patientrenter: My statements are not in conflict because I did not define what those limitations might be.

[/quote]

there in lies the problem.
everyone has a different idea of what the appropriate limit may be.
during my rotations in the ICU as a medical student and resident, I witnessed some family members demanding “every thing be done. cost be damned” for the dying patients. Guess who ended up footing the bill?
that $500,000 to keep the patient alive 4 weeks longer could have been used to educate or treat hundreds of needy kids.
look at Octomom and her $1.5million hospital stay. Not to mention the lifetime cost to raise those medically needy kids. For her, society should pay b/c that is the “appropriate limit”.

[bobby]

[quote=paramount]patientrenter: My statements are not in conflict because I did not define what those limitations might be.

[/quote]

there in lies the problem.
everyone has a different idea of what the appropriate limit may be.
during my rotations in the ICU as a medical student and resident, I witnessed some family members demanding “every thing be done. cost be damned” for the dying patients. Guess who ended up footing the bill?
that $500,000 to keep the patient alive 4 weeks longer could have been used to educate or treat hundreds of needy kids.
look at Octomom and her $1.5million hospital stay. Not to mention the lifetime cost to raise those medically needy kids. For her, society should pay b/c that is the “appropriate limit”.

[bobby]

[quote=paramount]patientrenter: My statements are not in conflict because I did not define what those limitations might be.

[/quote]

there in lies the problem.
everyone has a different idea of what the appropriate limit may be.
during my rotations in the ICU as a medical student and resident, I witnessed some family members demanding “every thing be done. cost be damned” for the dying patients. Guess who ended up footing the bill?
that $500,000 to keep the patient alive 4 weeks longer could have been used to educate or treat hundreds of needy kids.
look at Octomom and her $1.5million hospital stay. Not to mention the lifetime cost to raise those medically needy kids. For her, society should pay b/c that is the “appropriate limit”.

[bobby]

[quote=paramount]patientrenter: My statements are not in conflict because I did not define what those limitations might be.

[/quote]

there in lies the problem.
everyone has a different idea of what the appropriate limit may be.
during my rotations in the ICU as a medical student and resident, I witnessed some family members demanding “every thing be done. cost be damned” for the dying patients. Guess who ended up footing the bill?
that $500,000 to keep the patient alive 4 weeks longer could have been used to educate or treat hundreds of needy kids.
look at Octomom and her $1.5million hospital stay. Not to mention the lifetime cost to raise those medically needy kids. For her, society should pay b/c that is the “appropriate limit”.

[jficquette]

Here is site that has stats on spending per country on health care. We of course head the list.

John

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/hea_spe_per_per-health-spending-per-person

[jficquette]

Here is site that has stats on spending per country on health care. We of course head the list.

John

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/hea_spe_per_per-health-spending-per-person

[jficquette]

Here is site that has stats on spending per country on health care. We of course head the list.

John

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/hea_spe_per_per-health-spending-per-person

[jficquette]

Here is site that has stats on spending per country on health care. We of course head the list.

John

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/hea_spe_per_per-health-spending-per-person

[jficquette]

Here is site that has stats on spending per country on health care. We of course head the list.

John

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/hea_spe_per_per-health-spending-per-person

[DWCAP]

[quote=ucsf_med]
Physicians aren’t the only ones complicit in the quest to stop death at all costs, the family at the bedside and ever present lawyer-threat are drivers pushing the physician to do just a little more.

The article citing costs spent in the last several months of life is quite telling. However, it is in retrospect as you don’t know it is someone’s last few months of life until they actually die. It’s hard to cut off the last month of spending when you don’t know when the last month of life is.[/quote]

Doc’s are most certainly not the only ones involved here. I would go so far as to say that in my experience they are usually the least responsible for the issue at hand. It is their job to dispense medical care and advice on that care. They (usually) are unsurpassed at this point in history compared to any other when it comes to dispensing medical care. I feel that the breakdown comes when they have to dispense advice about that care. In my ,self admitted little experience( I have 4 friends in med school or docs and a few family members who have died), the problem is that patients are looking for a cure and doctors are prescribing a treatment. We as a society need to realize the difference and learn how to judge the value of a short term treatment versus its cost.

[DWCAP]

[quote=ucsf_med]
Physicians aren’t the only ones complicit in the quest to stop death at all costs, the family at the bedside and ever present lawyer-threat are drivers pushing the physician to do just a little more.

The article citing costs spent in the last several months of life is quite telling. However, it is in retrospect as you don’t know it is someone’s last few months of life until they actually die. It’s hard to cut off the last month of spending when you don’t know when the last month of life is.[/quote]

Doc’s are most certainly not the only ones involved here. I would go so far as to say that in my experience they are usually the least responsible for the issue at hand. It is their job to dispense medical care and advice on that care. They (usually) are unsurpassed at this point in history compared to any other when it comes to dispensing medical care. I feel that the breakdown comes when they have to dispense advice about that care. In my ,self admitted little experience( I have 4 friends in med school or docs and a few family members who have died), the problem is that patients are looking for a cure and doctors are prescribing a treatment. We as a society need to realize the difference and learn how to judge the value of a short term treatment versus its cost.

[DWCAP]

[quote=ucsf_med]
Physicians aren’t the only ones complicit in the quest to stop death at all costs, the family at the bedside and ever present lawyer-threat are drivers pushing the physician to do just a little more.

The article citing costs spent in the last several months of life is quite telling. However, it is in retrospect as you don’t know it is someone’s last few months of life until they actually die. It’s hard to cut off the last month of spending when you don’t know when the last month of life is.[/quote]

Doc’s are most certainly not the only ones involved here. I would go so far as to say that in my experience they are usually the least responsible for the issue at hand. It is their job to dispense medical care and advice on that care. They (usually) are unsurpassed at this point in history compared to any other when it comes to dispensing medical care. I feel that the breakdown comes when they have to dispense advice about that care. In my ,self admitted little experience( I have 4 friends in med school or docs and a few family members who have died), the problem is that patients are looking for a cure and doctors are prescribing a treatment. We as a society need to realize the difference and learn how to judge the value of a short term treatment versus its cost.

[DWCAP]

[quote=ucsf_med]
Physicians aren’t the only ones complicit in the quest to stop death at all costs, the family at the bedside and ever present lawyer-threat are drivers pushing the physician to do just a little more.

The article citing costs spent in the last several months of life is quite telling. However, it is in retrospect as you don’t know it is someone’s last few months of life until they actually die. It’s hard to cut off the last month of spending when you don’t know when the last month of life is.[/quote]

Doc’s are most certainly not the only ones involved here. I would go so far as to say that in my experience they are usually the least responsible for the issue at hand. It is their job to dispense medical care and advice on that care. They (usually) are unsurpassed at this point in history compared to any other when it comes to dispensing medical care. I feel that the breakdown comes when they have to dispense advice about that care. In my ,self admitted little experience( I have 4 friends in med school or docs and a few family members who have died), the problem is that patients are looking for a cure and doctors are prescribing a treatment. We as a society need to realize the difference and learn how to judge the value of a short term treatment versus its cost.

[Author]

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