ot; hobby lobby

[scaredyclassic]

[quote=mike92104][quote=scaredyclassic]I would like to see hobby lobby execs counseled vigorously streetside before going in to dr. Offices for prostate exams.

Sometimes these procedures result in involuntary erections and according to some religions are tantamount to the abomination that is pederasty.

I think they need to be advised on these matters in the street by screaming counselors within spitting distance.[/quote]

I don’t agree with all the idiots screaming at women in front of abortion clinics, but this isn’t a very good comparison. I doubt there are very many people who would argue that you are killing an unborn child with a prostate exam.[/quote]

the amn seeking a prostate exam is engaging in what many ultrareligious people see as a homoerotic act and by virtue of its sinful nature could result in an eterinty in hell…this is not about unborn children. this is about your immortal soul. when you allow another man to penetrate your anus with his body parts, you sin… plain and simple, no if s ands or butts about it. it is homosexuality with a thin veneer of “science” upon it.

. there is no “medical exception” to this type of sinful behavior and you will have to answer for this behavior when the time comes. it is wrong. and these executive s need to be stopped from having prostate exams not just for their own good. It is not just their anuses that are at stake, but the anuses of all children, born and unborn, who might follow their sinful homosexual example at some later date… there is nothing wrong with their prostate that a little faith and prayer cannot take care of…

this is what religions has come to…insurance coverage. ??? the mighty mystery, the grandeur, down to litigating insurance policies…

i was talking about this redfinition of G-d with my kid. we keep relegating him to cheesier more mundane and crappy spots. he used to rule the night sky and all the heavens, until we saw too far in space and realized he’s not really particularly “up there”.

he kind of got moved down to nature, but alot of that’nature stuff has been explained, so no mystery there, and no room for him to reside and knock us out with his unknownness there either, so he’s evicted from the sky, evicted from the lands….

now he and his mystery is basically hiding out in an unknown for now region in subatomic particle physics…and in insurance electives. ah, his grandeur and might y presence, expressed in the details of a policy …

how wonderful, awe inspiring an dmoving…

i give up..

[paramount]

[quote=scaredyclassic]

look if they were sincere, it wouldnt be right to make fun of them. but if they sincerely believe int he sacredness of life, after they’re done protesting all the needless deaths in our pointless economicwars, after they’re done campaigning against the death penalty and sitting vigils to prevent executions[/quote]

Hobby Lobby like anyone else corp or govt has to chose their battles, and this one was theirs to fight I guess.

[CA renter]

[quote=paramount]scaredy you seem to have a particular intolerance to those who seek to express their religious beliefs.

You don’t know if there is a god or not.[/quote]

Your right to your religious beliefs end where my rights begin.

If you don’t want to have an abortion, then it is 100% your right not to have one, but you have absolutely no right to tell other people what to do with their own bodies.

I always find it fascinating that the very people who oppose abortion are almost always the same people who oppose welfare.

[Hobie]

[quote=CA renter]I always find it fascinating that the very people who oppose abortion are almost always the same people who oppose welfare.[/quote]

+1 Nice. Zinger award goes to CAR.

[scaredyclassic]

[quot e=paramount][quote=scaredyclassic]

look if they were sincere, it wouldnt be right to make fun of them. but if they sincerely believe int he sacredness of life, after they’re done protesting all the needless deaths in our pointless economicwars, after they’re done campaigning against the death penalty and sitting vigils to prevent executions[/quote]

Hobby Lobby like anyone else corp or govt has to chose their battles, and this one was theirs to fight I guess.[/quote]
And they picked the one that involved controlling women’s bodies and unborn yet speculative lives as opposed to actual people. Showing that they only give a cap about life when it fits into a particular political agenda.

I don’t know why they think they have the right to do whatever they want with their prostate when their immorality affects society as a whole. They need to think before they allow themselves to be penetrated.

Look hobby lobby has sex on the brain. It’s way easier than forgiving a sinner on death row and allowing them to come to the Lord without man’s cruel intervening hand…

Much easier than being deemed a traitor and opposing the war machine!
Plus it involves other people fucking which is always just extremely intriguing to hobby lobbyists. Just fun to think about compared to other lives. Soft and supple as opposed to dusty old iraqi civilian Muslims getting blown to bits…

And.. it might save a few bucks!

Win win all around.

[UCGal]

[quote=scaredyclassic]
I think one of the more important factors determining how you feel about the decision is whether or not you have a uterus not political affiliation.[/quote]

I have a uterus… but it’s a bit past it’s prime.

This ruling does not impact me directly. And I never used those forms of birth control.

I have friends who feel that *any* birth control is an interference in God’s plans to go forth and multiply. They don’t claim to be part of the quiverful movement, but they are pretty close in my view. I support their right to make those choices. I also know that my choices were different. And I didn’t feel that my employer should be involved at all.

[scaredyclassic]

number of times the Bible mentions abortion: 0.

[scaredyclassic]

babies are cute.

maybe the whole litigation thing is just a publciity stunt.

i guess i’d be ok with that.

at some level i suppose everything done int he public square is a publicity stunt…

[scaredyclassic]

[quote=UCGal][quote=scaredyclassic]
I think one of the more important factors determining how you feel about the decision is whether or not you have a uterus not political affiliation.[/quote]

I have a uterus… but it’s a bit past it’s prime.

This ruling does not impact me directly. And I never used those forms of birth control.

I have friends who feel that *any* birth control is an interference in God’s plans to go forth and multiply. They don’t claim to be part of the quiverful movement, but they are pretty close in my view. I support their right to make those choices. I also know that my choices were different. And I didn’t feel that my employer should be involved at all.[/quote]

to say any given uterus is past its prime is to deny the Bible in a way…thnk of the miraculous births to older , very old women.

[CA renter]

[quote=scaredyclassic]number of times the Bible mentions abortion: 0.[/quote]

Though it’s not “intentional” abortion, it seems that even the Bible treats the termination of a pregnancy differently than the termination of a living person (self-sustained life, outside of a woman’s body)…

Exodus 21:22-24

“22 If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman’s husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.

23 And if any mischief follow [usually thought to mean that the woman dies as a result -CAR] , then thou shalt give life for life.

24 Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.”

[scaredyclassic]

At my gym, an attempted Christian conversion…

There are some mentally handicapped people who swing by my gym sometimes with their caretakers. Some of them work out, others just sit around. I am not sure how impaired this one particular girl is, but she sounds very child like and has some sort of behavior issues. Not sure what the problem is.

Anyway, she is sitting at a table with her regular caretaker, and a caretaker I hadn’t seen before, both caretakers are just slow and tired and obese. They would never ever think of moving in the gym. They just sit and wait, just absolutely huge and slow and dull eyed.

I usually don’t listen to their conversations but I overhear the handicapped girl say, in a shrill childlike voice “There is no G-d!” The really heavy new caretaker tells her maybe her parents told her that, and maybe she believes it, but there definitely is a G-d. They go back and forth for a while. There is. There isn’t. is so. Is not. The caretaker doesn’t seem much smarter than the ward, but she is definitely calmer and not shrill.

, so…I swing by a little later and they’re still talking about G-d. The heavy lady is going through the whole” he sent his only son down” thing, but the handicapped girl is not following the thread of that story. Son? Down? What? The way the fat lady was telling it, it sounded kind of absurd, and the handicapped girl was probably thinking, this doesn’t really make sense. What is this lady talking about?

Then the fat lady, kind of frustrated she’s not making any headway regarding the handicapped girl’s soul with the carrot of being saved, whips out the well-worn stick of hell, and starts laying out the details of the pit of fire, and how the handicapped girl is going to have to suffer forever in a firey hell if she doesn’t accept Jesus.

It takes a good deal of my self-restraint not to make an offhand comment to the handicapped girl, who seems to be backing down from her assertion that there is no G-d, the fear thing definitely is working. But I say nothing. Probably get arrested if I made a snarky comment.

…Very distracted though …really want to leap to the side of the handicapped girl and say, yeah, stand up for what you’re thinking, don’t let this lady diss you…. All I can think is, how paternalistic conversion tactics are, and what an embarrassing little exchange this is…it would’ve made an awesome youtube video. Just mesmerizingly sad and meanspirited and shitty….

When the converter’s “you can believe what you want to believe but it’s just plain wrong” doesn’t work”, the converter historically is left with no option but to turn to violence (or its counterpart here, the threat of imaginary future violence).

I wanted to tell the handicapped girl, don’t let this woman push you around. Look at her! She can barely walk! She SO FAT! Why would someone who can barely move necessarily know definitively the absolute structure of the universe… But I didn’t. no good could come of it. Tolerance for religion…I suppose I was tolerant…but clearly the religious impulses of the heavy woman demanded ridiculing and taunting and scaring a handicapped girl.

Her extreme obesity I suppose isn’t relevant to the story, except we were in a gym, for crying out loud. They should all be moving about, all of them, caretakers and wards, experiencing the beauty of their G-d given bodies, instead of making the body so heavy she literally had to limp her way out of the door, waddling, sweating just to lift herself and lurch forward. It seemed an affront to the creator to abuse the body in that way.

“You don’t have to believe in G-d,” the fat lady said derisively, “some people just don’t believe in anything.” I guess it’s just difficult to be tolerant of this type of tactic, which seems to be embedded in the historical religious tradition…aggressively try to persuade, then kill or threaten if they don’t buy it. really glad i didn’t say anything. it probably wouldve come out as “back the fuck off!”

something about attempted conversions always gives Jews the creeps…probably cellular flashbacks from the spanish inquisition.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Scaredy: Since this is in the Hobby Lobby thread, can we recast or reframe this narrative in terms of “positive rights” and “negative rights”, with the US Government as God/Organized Religion?

In other words, “Thou shalt purchase contraception, or there will be consequences!” (Which, in the final analysis, is very real, as the US Government holds a monopoly on its ability to use coercion and violence to enforce its will, akin to the God of the Old Testament.)

How does the argument play then? You know, when someone points out that we’re actually talking about negative rights versus positive rights here, and the ability of the government to coerce a private citizen against their will or beliefs.

[SK in CV]

Seen somewhere on the internets:

If you think fertilized eggs are people but refugee kids aren’t, you’re going to have to stop pretending your concerns are religious.

[scaredyclassic]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]Scaredy: Since this is in the Hobby Lobby thread, can we recast or reframe this narrative in terms of “positive rights” and “negative rights”, with the US Government as God/Organized Religion?

In other words, “Thou shalt purchase contraception, or there will be consequences!” (Which, in the final analysis, is very real, as the US Government holds a monopoly on its ability to use coercion and violence to enforce its will, akin to the God of the Old Testament.)

How does the argument play then? You know, when someone points out that we’re actually talking about negative rights versus positive rights here, and the ability of the government to coerce a private citizen against their will or beliefs.[/quote]

i guess I see this not so much as a horrifically coercive governmental action, like the mutual fund holding a bit of the company that produces the stuff…it’s just unavoidable if you live ina complex society to keep your hands perfectly clean.

so you’re being commanded to buy insurance, not contraception, and part of the insurance package is that doctors make decisions, some of which you like, some of which you don’t, and some the objector may not even understand…like, it’s not necessarily being used for contraceptive purposes, even if it could be….basically, when you live and work ina pluralistic marketplace, not everything’s going to be perfect…and if this is just too much for you to bear…well, then, maybe you are too delicate to do business in the USA.

on the other hand..

it does seem different to place affirmative burdens on people to do stuff, though. I don’t know the legal debate on it…but it’s definitely odd…

of course, insurance is the lifeblood of society, we have lived, eaten and breathed it for a century or so, right? and we all understand you can’t insure with justa few people. you need lots and lots of people…ideally, everyone..to spread risks…to be able to afford to cover big losses….

ultimately, insurance, and perhaps citizenship, is a collectivist enterprise, and in terms of sacrifices, it just doesn’t seem that horrible to have a system where everyone is covered even if that system requires some coercive aspect. might not be worth it, and then I suppose the people will rebel…personally, i think of my kids, i think of lengthy periods when i had no coverage, i like the idea of not ahving to worry about them having coverage because i know id spend my last dime paying their medical bills if they weren’t…..

[scaredyclassic]

[quote=SK in CV]Seen somewhere on the internets:

If you think fertilized eggs are people but refugee kids aren’t, you’re going to have to stop pretending your concerns are religious.

[/quote]

refugee eggs…do they become citizens if they exist in the USA, or do they have to be born? im pretty sure they need to be born…

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/world/story/2012-03-19/in-vitro-citizenship/53656616/1

looks like we’ll still be running those refugee eggs out of town…scramble em baby…

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