OT: FOX News and the oil blowout

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=eavesdropper]

And speaking of Massey, they should be a semester’s worth of study in themselves. If I wasn’t so repelled by Don Blankenship and his actions, I would probably be shaking my head in wonder and awe at what this guy has managed to pull off…with the complete cooperation of our leaders in Washington.[/quote]

Eavesdropper: I don’t work on the mine side, which is largely regulated by MSHA (the mine version of OSHA). I will give Obama credit for appointing a former senior union mine worker as head of MSHA, but West Virginia is apparently bought and paid for by Blankenship and Massey.

There are curious parallels between risk analysis, risk modeling and risk management in oil/gas and Wall Street and largely in that neither particular model works, nor has either model been tested in the real world, until the events of summer/fall 2008 (Wall Street with Bear, Lehman, et al.) and 2009 and 2010 (Tesoro, Massey and BP).

In a conversation with a Civil/Structural engineer at an unnamed oil company, he said that risk analysis “works until it doesn’t”. Sounds kind of goofy, but that is the prevailing attitude: “We’re comfortable with our risk analysis and risk management posture, until such time as the shit blows up”. Like I said, the parallels between Wall Street and the oil/gas companies are eerie. Both sides count on lawyers and lobbyists and highly paid engineering (or mathematics, in the case of Wall Street) consultants to come in and argue that these various companies did everything possible to analyze and mitigate risk and then they count on endless years spent in court, fending off plaintiffs.

[scaredyclassic]

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-oil-spill-investigation-20100529,0,3427456.story

criminal charges? so i don’t know if it’s a cementing problem or a drilling problem, but I suspect in spite of all this hotheaded blather that it’s kind of like deciding whether a shooting was a gun thing or an ammo thing.

probably whoever’s making the bucks ought to be responsible. So what about criminal charges? good or bad? will it incentivize execuives to maybe give a rat’s ass about whether or not they destroy the earth? Would it offend your sensibility to throw ten or twenty corp execs in the hoosegow for a few decades? would it not maybe give other oil execs a moment’s pause before they go for it? instead of counting on “endless years ina civil court fend off plaintiffs” maybe the risk benefit analysis might change if the executives added in the speedier criminal trial that might occur a year or two from the date of incident and might result in them losing everything. certainly would change my personal risk/benefit analysis.

personally, i’d like to see gas at 10 bucks a gallon minimum. I have no particular opinion on this incident other than it sure looks like someone f***ed up, whether it’s the drill guy, the cement guy, or whoever…if this is just the cost fo doing business, i think maybe we ought not to be in this business…

[scaredyclassic]

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-oil-spill-investigation-20100529,0,3427456.story

criminal charges? so i don’t know if it’s a cementing problem or a drilling problem, but I suspect in spite of all this hotheaded blather that it’s kind of like deciding whether a shooting was a gun thing or an ammo thing.

probably whoever’s making the bucks ought to be responsible. So what about criminal charges? good or bad? will it incentivize execuives to maybe give a rat’s ass about whether or not they destroy the earth? Would it offend your sensibility to throw ten or twenty corp execs in the hoosegow for a few decades? would it not maybe give other oil execs a moment’s pause before they go for it? instead of counting on “endless years ina civil court fend off plaintiffs” maybe the risk benefit analysis might change if the executives added in the speedier criminal trial that might occur a year or two from the date of incident and might result in them losing everything. certainly would change my personal risk/benefit analysis.

personally, i’d like to see gas at 10 bucks a gallon minimum. I have no particular opinion on this incident other than it sure looks like someone f***ed up, whether it’s the drill guy, the cement guy, or whoever…if this is just the cost fo doing business, i think maybe we ought not to be in this business…

[scaredyclassic]

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-oil-spill-investigation-20100529,0,3427456.story

criminal charges? so i don’t know if it’s a cementing problem or a drilling problem, but I suspect in spite of all this hotheaded blather that it’s kind of like deciding whether a shooting was a gun thing or an ammo thing.

probably whoever’s making the bucks ought to be responsible. So what about criminal charges? good or bad? will it incentivize execuives to maybe give a rat’s ass about whether or not they destroy the earth? Would it offend your sensibility to throw ten or twenty corp execs in the hoosegow for a few decades? would it not maybe give other oil execs a moment’s pause before they go for it? instead of counting on “endless years ina civil court fend off plaintiffs” maybe the risk benefit analysis might change if the executives added in the speedier criminal trial that might occur a year or two from the date of incident and might result in them losing everything. certainly would change my personal risk/benefit analysis.

personally, i’d like to see gas at 10 bucks a gallon minimum. I have no particular opinion on this incident other than it sure looks like someone f***ed up, whether it’s the drill guy, the cement guy, or whoever…if this is just the cost fo doing business, i think maybe we ought not to be in this business…

[scaredyclassic]

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-oil-spill-investigation-20100529,0,3427456.story

criminal charges? so i don’t know if it’s a cementing problem or a drilling problem, but I suspect in spite of all this hotheaded blather that it’s kind of like deciding whether a shooting was a gun thing or an ammo thing.

probably whoever’s making the bucks ought to be responsible. So what about criminal charges? good or bad? will it incentivize execuives to maybe give a rat’s ass about whether or not they destroy the earth? Would it offend your sensibility to throw ten or twenty corp execs in the hoosegow for a few decades? would it not maybe give other oil execs a moment’s pause before they go for it? instead of counting on “endless years ina civil court fend off plaintiffs” maybe the risk benefit analysis might change if the executives added in the speedier criminal trial that might occur a year or two from the date of incident and might result in them losing everything. certainly would change my personal risk/benefit analysis.

personally, i’d like to see gas at 10 bucks a gallon minimum. I have no particular opinion on this incident other than it sure looks like someone f***ed up, whether it’s the drill guy, the cement guy, or whoever…if this is just the cost fo doing business, i think maybe we ought not to be in this business…

[scaredyclassic]

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-oil-spill-investigation-20100529,0,3427456.story

criminal charges? so i don’t know if it’s a cementing problem or a drilling problem, but I suspect in spite of all this hotheaded blather that it’s kind of like deciding whether a shooting was a gun thing or an ammo thing.

probably whoever’s making the bucks ought to be responsible. So what about criminal charges? good or bad? will it incentivize execuives to maybe give a rat’s ass about whether or not they destroy the earth? Would it offend your sensibility to throw ten or twenty corp execs in the hoosegow for a few decades? would it not maybe give other oil execs a moment’s pause before they go for it? instead of counting on “endless years ina civil court fend off plaintiffs” maybe the risk benefit analysis might change if the executives added in the speedier criminal trial that might occur a year or two from the date of incident and might result in them losing everything. certainly would change my personal risk/benefit analysis.

personally, i’d like to see gas at 10 bucks a gallon minimum. I have no particular opinion on this incident other than it sure looks like someone f***ed up, whether it’s the drill guy, the cement guy, or whoever…if this is just the cost fo doing business, i think maybe we ought not to be in this business…

[briansd1]

[quote=NewtoSanDiego]I’m sick of liberal whining. Fox is certainly fair and balanced.

This is Obama’s Katrina, no way around it.

This is also a failure of government regulation. This administration essentially dropped the ball, all their talk of regulatory reform, shows that they did nothing this past year and 1/2 at the Mines and Mineral Mgmt Agency

The voters will make their assessment

NSD[/quote]

Let me see here… what’s the “liberal whining” about?

Without the liberal whining, as you put it, Obama wouldn’t be on the hot seat. The other side seems to be saying “Accidents happen. Tough luck. Live with it if you want gas.”

I’m glad that you admitted that this was a failure of government regulation. Guess what will result? Stricter regulations and more regulations.

Yes, the voters will make their assessments. Do you think that facing the choices, the voters (of the Gulf Coast and the South especially) will vote for a party which favors regulations or a party that favors deregulating?

Let me ask you here:
Is is Obama’s problem? Or an environmental problem which needs to be solved?

[briansd1]

[quote=NewtoSanDiego]I’m sick of liberal whining. Fox is certainly fair and balanced.

This is Obama’s Katrina, no way around it.

This is also a failure of government regulation. This administration essentially dropped the ball, all their talk of regulatory reform, shows that they did nothing this past year and 1/2 at the Mines and Mineral Mgmt Agency

The voters will make their assessment

NSD[/quote]

Let me see here… what’s the “liberal whining” about?

Without the liberal whining, as you put it, Obama wouldn’t be on the hot seat. The other side seems to be saying “Accidents happen. Tough luck. Live with it if you want gas.”

I’m glad that you admitted that this was a failure of government regulation. Guess what will result? Stricter regulations and more regulations.

Yes, the voters will make their assessments. Do you think that facing the choices, the voters (of the Gulf Coast and the South especially) will vote for a party which favors regulations or a party that favors deregulating?

Let me ask you here:
Is is Obama’s problem? Or an environmental problem which needs to be solved?

[briansd1]

[quote=NewtoSanDiego]I’m sick of liberal whining. Fox is certainly fair and balanced.

This is Obama’s Katrina, no way around it.

This is also a failure of government regulation. This administration essentially dropped the ball, all their talk of regulatory reform, shows that they did nothing this past year and 1/2 at the Mines and Mineral Mgmt Agency

The voters will make their assessment

NSD[/quote]

Let me see here… what’s the “liberal whining” about?

Without the liberal whining, as you put it, Obama wouldn’t be on the hot seat. The other side seems to be saying “Accidents happen. Tough luck. Live with it if you want gas.”

I’m glad that you admitted that this was a failure of government regulation. Guess what will result? Stricter regulations and more regulations.

Yes, the voters will make their assessments. Do you think that facing the choices, the voters (of the Gulf Coast and the South especially) will vote for a party which favors regulations or a party that favors deregulating?

Let me ask you here:
Is is Obama’s problem? Or an environmental problem which needs to be solved?

[briansd1]

[quote=NewtoSanDiego]I’m sick of liberal whining. Fox is certainly fair and balanced.

This is Obama’s Katrina, no way around it.

This is also a failure of government regulation. This administration essentially dropped the ball, all their talk of regulatory reform, shows that they did nothing this past year and 1/2 at the Mines and Mineral Mgmt Agency

The voters will make their assessment

NSD[/quote]

Let me see here… what’s the “liberal whining” about?

Without the liberal whining, as you put it, Obama wouldn’t be on the hot seat. The other side seems to be saying “Accidents happen. Tough luck. Live with it if you want gas.”

I’m glad that you admitted that this was a failure of government regulation. Guess what will result? Stricter regulations and more regulations.

Yes, the voters will make their assessments. Do you think that facing the choices, the voters (of the Gulf Coast and the South especially) will vote for a party which favors regulations or a party that favors deregulating?

Let me ask you here:
Is is Obama’s problem? Or an environmental problem which needs to be solved?

[briansd1]

[quote=NewtoSanDiego]I’m sick of liberal whining. Fox is certainly fair and balanced.

This is Obama’s Katrina, no way around it.

This is also a failure of government regulation. This administration essentially dropped the ball, all their talk of regulatory reform, shows that they did nothing this past year and 1/2 at the Mines and Mineral Mgmt Agency

The voters will make their assessment

NSD[/quote]

Let me see here… what’s the “liberal whining” about?

Without the liberal whining, as you put it, Obama wouldn’t be on the hot seat. The other side seems to be saying “Accidents happen. Tough luck. Live with it if you want gas.”

I’m glad that you admitted that this was a failure of government regulation. Guess what will result? Stricter regulations and more regulations.

Yes, the voters will make their assessments. Do you think that facing the choices, the voters (of the Gulf Coast and the South especially) will vote for a party which favors regulations or a party that favors deregulating?

Let me ask you here:
Is is Obama’s problem? Or an environmental problem which needs to be solved?

[scaredyclassic]

Maybe theore appropriate comparison to fault is an accidental pregnancy with a broken condom. Clearly there is no fault on the part of the guy having sex right it’s all the fault of the condom. Course if the guy hadn’t been drilling in the first place….forget tougher regulations….criminal cororate strict liability where if there’s a spill like this, Corp is prosecuted and all assets are seized criminally. Wouldn’t this give the execs motivation to take proper risk analysis?

[scaredyclassic]

Maybe theore appropriate comparison to fault is an accidental pregnancy with a broken condom. Clearly there is no fault on the part of the guy having sex right it’s all the fault of the condom. Course if the guy hadn’t been drilling in the first place….forget tougher regulations….criminal cororate strict liability where if there’s a spill like this, Corp is prosecuted and all assets are seized criminally. Wouldn’t this give the execs motivation to take proper risk analysis?

[scaredyclassic]

Maybe theore appropriate comparison to fault is an accidental pregnancy with a broken condom. Clearly there is no fault on the part of the guy having sex right it’s all the fault of the condom. Course if the guy hadn’t been drilling in the first place….forget tougher regulations….criminal cororate strict liability where if there’s a spill like this, Corp is prosecuted and all assets are seized criminally. Wouldn’t this give the execs motivation to take proper risk analysis?

[scaredyclassic]

Maybe theore appropriate comparison to fault is an accidental pregnancy with a broken condom. Clearly there is no fault on the part of the guy having sex right it’s all the fault of the condom. Course if the guy hadn’t been drilling in the first place….forget tougher regulations….criminal cororate strict liability where if there’s a spill like this, Corp is prosecuted and all assets are seized criminally. Wouldn’t this give the execs motivation to take proper risk analysis?

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