OT: Driver Licenses for illegal aliens

[zk]

So, the state wants to give driver licenses to illegal aliens.

Leave aside immigration policies in general. Here’s what I don’t understand (and I could easily be missing something):

The border patrol spends millions trying to find and deport illegal aliens. But when an undocumented worker walks into the DMV and tells us that he’s non-documented, we tell him to wait in line a couple hours, then fill out some paperwork, then take his driver license and be on his way?

Why is that worker different from one being chased by la migra through the desert or being stopped at the checkpoints on the freeways? Why aren’t we detaining and deporting him if that’s what our laws say we should do and if that’s what we do when we encounter them elsewhere? What am I missing?

[Coronita]

I thought the fed already said this wasn’t going to be legal.

Only in Cali!

[spdrun]

Driver’s license is a license to drive, not a license to live in the US. Better to control driving than to have a large % of people driving around without a license. Also, local police deporting illegals on sight doesn’t necessarily serve law enforcement purposes. If illegals know that they’ll be auto deported, they will avoid the police, thus hindering investigation into more severe, more violent crimes.

[zk]

[quote=spdrun]Driver’s license is a license to drive, not a license to live in the US.[/quote]

That’s like saying, don’t arrest a fugitive (say he’s wanted for grand theft) when he applies for a hunting license because a hunting license is a license to hunt, not a license to commit grand theft. He’s standing right there. He’s wanted for a crime. Arrest him.

[quote=spdrun]
Better to control driving than to have a large % of people driving around without a license.
[/quote]
Why? What does having a license do?

[quote=spdrun]
Also, local police deporting illegals on sight doesn’t necessarily serve law enforcement purposes.
[/quote]

Local police wouldn’t deport them. ICE would. It’s a phone call, and it seems to me that would be easier than chasing them through the desert. ‘Course they wouldn’t show up at the DMV if that were the case.

[quote=spdrun]
If illegals know that they’ll be auto deported, they will avoid the police, thus hindering investigation into more severe, more violent crimes.[/quote]

What? How will avoiding going to the DMV hinder investigation into violent crimes?

[spdrun]

Why? What does having a license do?

Allows a driver to legally register, smog, and insure their car against any mayhem that may be caused by it, for one thing.

The “it’s only a phone call” argument doesn’t hold water. Ordering an action is morally the same as being a participant. I mean, if you called up your uncle Vinny and told him to break my kneecaps, would “it’s only a phone call” defend you against charges of assault and battery?

[Coronita]

I could make a political joke right now, but I’ll refrain… 🙂

I think the argument for this is that well, illegal immigrants are going to be here anyway, and they are going to be here anyway driving unlicensed and uninsured… So they might as well be documented and insured anyway.I’m not suggesting that I agree with that or disagree. But that seems to be one of the arguments supporting this…It’s really no different than allowing undocumented folks to attend public schools (and get reduced state-residence tuition), go to the hospital, or other public resources here as well. It’s all the same imho…. And if voters and our politicians feel that that should be allowed, well it’s the will of the people then…

[Hobie]

Don’t be too sure their insurance is in force. Many will buy a month policy to obtain the card then let it lapse.

[zk]

[quote=spdrun]

Allows a driver to legally register, smog, and insure their car against any mayhem that may be caused by it, for one thing.[/quote]

I’m not saying they shouldn’t be allowed to own a car and drive. But they aren’t. They aren’t allowed to be here at all. It seems very inconsistent to spend millions chasing them through the desert, where many of them die, but, when they make it through, say, “ok, you made it. Good on ya. Welcome to the USA. Here’s your driver license. Have a good day. Off you go.” I mean, if we’re going to welcome them here, let’s let them in. If we’re not going to let them in, let’s deport when we find them.

[quote=spdrun]
The “it’s only a phone call” argument doesn’t hold water. Ordering an action is morally the same as being a participant. I mean, if you called up your uncle Vinny and told him to break my kneecaps, would “it’s only a phone call” defend you against charges of assault and battery?[/quote]

I wasn’t implying that “it’s only a phone call” defends against moral responsibility. Yes, they would share moral responsibility, but the “moral” aspect of who is responsible for detaining and deporting the illegal immigrant is not the point. You said, “local police deporting illegals on sight doesn’t necessarily serve law enforcement purposes.” I assumed you meant as opposed to ICE deporting them, and that you thought that was a problem primarily for logistical reasons. ICE obviously wants to deport illegal aliens. Otherwise, why would ICE be doing that as part of their daily operation? So deporting them, it would seem to me, would serve law enforcement purposes. My assumption that you thought “local police deporting illegals on sight doesn’t necessarily serve law enforcement purposes” was for logistical reasons has been shown incorrect. So now I ask, why would you say that deporting them wouldn’t serve law enforcement purposes?

There are plenty of arguments on both sides of let them in/don’t let them in. I think they’re an important part of our economy, and the laws need to be changed in some way. I’m just not sure ignoring some laws is the way to go about fixing things.

Or maybe it is. Maybe that’s the answer to my original question. Maybe ignoring the law in this case is easier/faster/works better than changing the laws. Maybe we really want them here, but politicians can’t admit that to the voters. So we make “them being here” work by ignoring some laws (such as the law that prohibits them from being here) sometimes, but not other times.

[scaredyclassic]

[quote=zk][quote=spdrun]Driver’s license is a license to drive, not a license to live in the US.[/quote]

That’s like saying, don’t arrest a fugitive (say he’s wanted for grand theft) when he applies for a hunting license because a hunting license is a license to hunt, not a license to commit grand theft. He’s standing right there. He’s wanted for a crime. Arrest him.

[quote=spdrun]
Better to control driving than to have a large % of people driving around without a license.
[/quote]
Why? What does having a license do?

[quote=spdrun]
Also, local police deporting illegals on sight doesn’t necessarily serve law enforcement purposes.
[/quote]

Local police wouldn’t deport them. ICE would. It’s a phone call, and it seems to me that would be easier than chasing them through the desert. ‘Course they wouldn’t show up at the DMV if that were the case.

[quote=spdrun]
If illegals know that they’ll be auto deported, they will avoid the police, thus hindering investigation into more severe, more violent crimes.[/quote]

What? How will avoiding going to the DMV hinder investigation into violent crimes?[/quote]

immediate deportation will make investigation and prosecution into any crime involving an undocumented person much less likely. rape one? she’ll have to balance whether reporting is worth the hassle of being deported. and the defendant wins! since she reports the rape, gets deported, there’s no witness to prove the case at trial! so, feel free to rape anyone without papers, you cannot be prosecuted, so long as the deportation is definite, and prompt, and they don’t retain the person for trial locked up. Of course, you coulddetain the witness for trial while the case is pending. So you have the rape guy string it out, delay trialf or years, while the victim waits ina cage for the trial. which is another factor that would tend to make victims not report.

also feel free to rape undocumented children, steal from undocumented adults.

[SK in CV]

[quote=Hobie]Don’t be too sure their insurance is in force. Many will buy a month policy to obtain the card then let it lapse.[/quote]

Unless things have changed recently, I’m pretty sure no insurance is required to get a drivers license. Drivers don’t have to be insured, cars do.

[no_such_reality]

If I go to Europe or Asia I use my international drivers license. I lease or buy a car based on the time I’ll be there and insure it locally and legally due to the international drivers license

IMO. The drivers license is just another attempt to provide documentation to illegals

That will be a problem.

We need a very simple, very easy to obtain, virtually unlimited in quantity guest worker program with temporary residence that has no rights to benefits other than the temporary ones paid for as part of their temporary employment that is couple with stringent pay requirements above par that are strickly enforced with substantial and relevant penalties and jail time for employers skirting, abusing or cheating the system and citizens. CEO in an orange jump suit for something like the ICE a few years ago on the meat plant is a good thing IMHO

And then we can figure out a path to citizenship for the illegal/undocumented more American than not young adult/kid that has been in the country since they’re 2 years old.

[spdrun]

Unless things have changed recently, I’m pretty sure no insurance is required to get a drivers license. Drivers don’t have to be insured, cars do.

But a valid driver’s license is required to insure a car 🙂

[spdrun]

It seems very inconsistent to spend millions chasing them through the desert, where many of them die, but, when they make it through, say, “ok, you made it. Good on ya. Welcome to the USA. Here’s your driver license. Have a good day. Off you go.” I mean, if we’re going to welcome them here, let’s let them in. If we’re not going to let them in, let’s deport when we find them.

It’s a case of CA law differing from Fed law. CA is basically telling the Feds to get lost. I don’t have a huge problem with that. Either this situation will remain or the courts will reconcile it in 5-10 years.

[CA renter]

Speaking of immigrants and documentation, here’s a crazy story about a Cuban immigrant who thought he was a citizen, and is now being denied US citizenship even though he served in the military and worked for the govt for over two decades!

Okay, this is the type of crazy story that makes our government and our immigration system look like a total joke. I hope they resolve this and offer a public apology for what they’ve put this man through, assuming his story is true, of course.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/05/16/us-usa-florida-immigration-idUSBREA4F0QB20140516

Unbelievable!!!!

[Author]

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