OT: Compelling new Reason to never borrow a dime for school

[spdrun]

Yep, I meant grant/scholarship, not loan-type financial aid.

I went to a small but well-endowed private school. “Grants” of 50% of tuition and board weren’t unusual, which brought expenses down to levels not much higher than state schools.

[equalizer]

[quote=squat250]i have a new idea for enhancing college performance.

let kid get the “dorm” experience by living close by campus in student type rental housing and hang out with student roommates and work for a living for a year before going to college.

in this way, he can party his ass off, kind of hang out at the college he’s intereste din, sit in on some classes, meet people, but not ahve to do any academic work, accumulate no debt, but kinda clear his head or cloud it, depending on how things go.

i probably shoulda done that.[/quote]
Its a great idea, though it’s not too late. Meet you at the “Old School” with W Farrell.

[bobby]

up to $20K? that’s gonna be tough to get a degree.
I think there’s a rule of thumb for how much to borrow: The amount borrow should not exceed the expected annual income for the first few years.

I borrowed $225,000 for school. Very glad I did. Would definitely do it again. Wouldn’t be where I am today without this loan.

I wouldn’t borrow for some lib art degree but for a practical field, it’s worth every penny.

[scaredyclassic]

I left law school in 1995 with $95,000.00 in debt. Not sure what that is inflation-adjusted. Probably a lot.

Je ne regrette rien, but, I easily could’ve and froma financial planner’s perspective, shouldve, borrowed less. If I did it over, I’d have atteneded a different school and left with 20-30k debt, if that.

Timing is everything. That debt was a good deal at the time for me, in retrospect. It still might be a good deal. It’s just, there’s less room to change direction nowadays. You better be damn sure what you’re doing when you have 250,000 in student debt.

BG, not sure about the “under 45” criteria. You could be 50 and easily work till you’re 80.

My Mom is older than that and stillworks most days.

Indeed, perhaps the debt and the degree would give some individuals a purpose, mission and reason to keep living!

[bearishgurl]

[quote=bobby]up to $20K? that’s gonna be tough to get a degree.
I think there’s a rule of thumb for how much to borrow: The amount borrow should not exceed the expected annual income for the first few years.

I borrowed $225,000 for school. Very glad I did. Would definitely do it again. Wouldn’t be where I am today without this loan.

I wouldn’t borrow for some lib art degree but for a practical field, it’s worth every penny.[/quote]

bobby, are your SURE you would encourage your kid to take out this size of a student loan TODAY … even for a “practical” degree?

And if you don’t mind my asking, how long ago did you finish borrowing this amt and how much left of your student loan do you still have to pay?

[bearishgurl]

[quote=squat250]I left law school in 1995 with $95,000.00 in debt. Not sure what that is inflation-adjusted. Probably a lot.

Je ne regrette rien, but, I easily could’ve and froma financial planner’s perspective, shouldve, borrowed less. If I did it over, I’d have atteneded a different school and left with 20-30k debt, if that.

Timing is everything. That debt was a good deal at the time for me, in retrospect. It still might be a good deal. It’s just, there’s less room to change direction nowadays. You better be damn sure what you’re doing when you have 250,000 in student debt.

BG, not sure about the “under 45” criteria. You could be 50 and easily work till you’re 80.

My Mom is older than that and stillworks most days.

Indeed, perhaps the debt and the degree would give some individuals a purpose, mission and reason to keep living![/quote]

scaredy, I agree that $250K is a whopping sum to borrow, leaving a former student with crippling debt and making it next to impossible to move on with his or her life (buy vehicle/home and/or get married/have children) at the age he or she normally would.

However, 1995 (when you graduated) was 17 years ago, when new lawyers could still get secure gov’t jobs (like yours) and state and local gov’ts were still hiring. Is your agency still hiring? And if so, how many newly-minted lawyers do they have lined up to compete for ONE entry-level opening?

Of course, nearly ALL boomers would like to continue to work (even PT) indefinitely. Those that don’t have secure employment (where they can’t be discharged without cause) are likely either insecure about their continued employment or unemployed. Once unemployed and over 50, it doesn’t matter WHO you are or what you know … you will very likely never be hired again, at least in SD County.

Maybe it’s different in other locales where many young people (potential employees) have fled for more opportunity or left for college and never returned.

[spdrun]

I know people over 50 (including my parents) who were re-hired. This is in NYC, with quite a lot of young people, not Detroit or Harrisburg.

[desmond]

At the least you should be able to pay for 75% of your total college expenses and take on no more than 25% debt. If you can’t do that then you should take a less expensive route. Even becoming an M.D. and taking on that debt is going to be hard to justify from now on.

[jwizzle]

[quote=squat250]I left law school in 1995 with $95,000.00 in debt. Not sure what that is inflation-adjusted. Probably a lot.

Timing is everything. That debt was a good deal at the time for me, in retrospect. It still might be a good deal. It’s just, there’s less room to change direction nowadays. You better be damn sure what you’re doing when you have 250,000 in student debt.

[/quote]

I left law school about a decade later, with about $50k more debt (total for undergrad and law – although most was law). The debt was a good deal for me also. I disagree about room to change direction – I have a lot of friends and colleagues who have done so less than a decade after graduating. Admittedly, I went to a high-ranking law school, which plays a key role in the ability to switch course in a way that is not financially disastrous. Most of these people went to big firms, were miserable for a few years, paid their law debt, then found something they loved doing (opening small offices, non-profit work, government work, moving to africa with the peace corps, etc). So, my addendum to “damn sure what you are doing” is “or put yourself in a position where you can quickly dig yourself out if you aren’t sold on that course.”

And BG – you are right about holding off on some larger financial purchases (like a house) – I just bought last year, despite making a low 6-figure income for 5 years prior, because qualifying and saving for a decent down payment was harder with paying off law school debt. But the flip side to that is that my income is easily 2-3 times what I would be making if I hadn’t gone to law school (I took a year off and worked as an accountant, so I have a good basis for saying this). The difference in monthly debt payments vs. monthly income, and the type of house/area where I was able to purchase, is more than worth it.

[jwizzle]

deleted – double post. Stupid slow internet.

[bobby]

1. no kids. Yes, I would tell them to borrow if they have to (but I think by the time I have kids and they go to school, I would be ale to pay for them).

2. Graduated in 2002. Still have about $100,000 but at 3.xx interest. I can write a check and pay it off if I want to but low interest rate is nice.

3. We grew up in a single mother household income on welfare/foodstamp/garage sales everything. Both my brother and I borrowed heavily for our education. we both are quite happy we did this. Without our education, we would still be dirt poor.

[quote=bearishgurl][quote=bobby]up to $20K? that’s gonna be tough to get a degree.
I think there’s a rule of thumb for how much to borrow: The amount borrow should not exceed the expected annual income for the first few years.

I borrowed $225,000 for school. Very glad I did. Would definitely do it again. Wouldn’t be where I am today without this loan.

I wouldn’t borrow for some lib art degree but for a practical field, it’s worth every penny.[/quote]

bobby, are your SURE you would encourage your kid to take out this size of a student loan TODAY … even for a “practical” degree?

And if you don’t mind my asking, how long ago did you finish borrowing this amt and how much left of your student loan do you still have to pay?[/quote]

[Author]

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