ot. BLM campus protests related to affirmative action…

[scaredyclassic]

Life is hard for blacks, whites, anyone broke …

Class, not race, is,the issue

[FlyerInHi]

[quote=scaredyclassic]http://mobile.nytimes.com/2012/12/01/opinion/the-real-thomas-jefferson.html

There’s lots more bad details about tommie. But the truth is all nations and human institutions are built on enormous lies.

Not sure how,raising consciousness on past wrongs has any future utility.

The only reasonable goal remaining now I think could be slave reparations. Pretty sure that won’t happen.[/quote]

Tommie took Sally Hemmings to Paris as his sex slave. He had 6 children by her. I think his wife had headaches spells in Paris and had to return home.

I guess he was more turned on by Hemmings than by the naughty girls of Paris of the time.

[spdrun]

His wife died when Hemings was a child. Hemings was reputed to be quite beautiful. Interestingly, she could have settled in France (slavery was forbidden since 1793) but chose not to do so, though it would be questionable whether she could find work.

Hard to know the real nature of that relationship now that all parties to it are 150 years dead.

[FlyerInHi]

Very interesting.
Also interesting was Hannibal who was the adopted son of Peter the Great.

Whatever history is, it’s history. we should study and accept it. I don’t really care one way or another. If we discover new facts we should change our thinking. Isn’t that what an evolving sophisticated society is all about?

What’s wrong with renaming things as we evolve? Some legacies will be forgotten, some legacies will overtake others. That’s the way history works.

My upbringing was very European centered. In college, I took an America Lit class and I did poorly because I wasn’t used to witting essays about Afro-American subjects (professor was black woman with Afro). I had to drop the class. But hey, as the word people on NPR say, there no correct way to speak or write English. It’s whatever the current generation decides it to be.

[scaredyclassic]

Yeah, why don’t Asians protest to get FDR off the dime for internment of japanese? Too busy studying or what?

I read there’s protest to change Harvard Law schools seal. Family crest of a slave owner.

[FlyerInHi]

The Roosevelt school of Asian studies would be a problem. So it depends on the context.
Also, FDR’s family made its money though the China trade, opium and the like, which was unfair and exploitative of the Chinese.

[FlyerInHi]

[quote=spdrun]His wife died when Hemings was a child. Hemings was reputed to be quite beautiful. Interestingly, she could have settled in France (slavery was forbidden since 1793) but chose not to do so, though it would be questionable whether she could find work.

Hard to know the real nature of that relationship now that all parties to it are 150 years dead.[/quote]
Hemmings might not have been able to stettle in France. She was the chattel of a diplomat who enjoyed diplomatic immunity. That would have been an interesting legal case.

In the USA, federal law protected the property of slave owners whose slave may escape or travel with their masters to free states. A plantation owner could take this retinue of slaves servants with him while attending a Broadway show in NY. Interestingly federal law was in contradiction to state rights. So the South was fighting against the right of free states to have free citizens within their borders.

[spdrun]

That’s unclear — French law would have viewed her as a person. It would have protected Jefferson from criminal prosecution as a slaveholder, but also protected the rights of his slaves as human beings.

[njtosd]

[quote=XBoxBoy][quote=FlyerInHi]
A prestigious school of public policy named after an awoved racist is just bad policy and bad reputation.
[/quote]

An even more egregious example: What should England do about things named for Winston Churchill? Without Churchill, most of England would currently be speaking German. (Ok, you can debate that, but his contribution to keeping morale in England up during WWII is not really debatable)

But Churchill, like many of English politicians of the early years of the 20th century was extraordinarily racist. His attitudes towards the “natives” in India and to Mahatma Gandi are shocking.

And what about Thomas Jefferson who kept slaves? (And fathered children with Sally Hemings) Oh, and let’s not forget George Washington who also owned slaves!

The history of racism and man’s inhumanity to his fellow man is long and extensive. If we rename everything named after anyone who at some time held a view we don’t agree with today, we’re gonna need a lot of names.[/quote]

And what about the states of Maryland and Virginia – named for women who were no doubt bigoted and held positions only due to their heritage.

Imagine the work that would get done if all of this pent up anger was used to actually do something tangible (not violent, constructive). It’s a shame – words, words, words.

[FlyerInHi]

[quote=njtosd]

Imagine the work that would get done if all of this pent up anger was used to actually do something tangible (not violent, constructive). It’s a shame – words, words, words.[/quote]

No never forget?

[Anonymous]

I suppose we should just name everything after Mother Theresa.

Lemme guess, someone, somewhere has probably accused her of being a racist as well…

[NotCranky]

Probably name a bunch of stuff after Dick Cheney. Like the Museum of Weapons of Mass Destruction or something like that.

[scaredyclassic]

[quote=harvey]I suppose we should just name everything after Mother Theresa.

Lemme guess, someone, somewhere has probably accused her of being a racist as well…[/quote]

Uh. No. Google mother Theresa crook. She’s a fraud. Tiny percent of donations goes to her crappy squalid “hospitals” where you get your prayer care. She is evil.

Truly. Not exaggerating here for effect.

Fighting for civil rights I’d useful. Fighting for naming rights, not so much.

[FlyerInHi]

Demographics is destiny and future generations will rename whatever they want. Opinions and attitudes change. Why do things have to remain static? A few things renamed every year is actually a sign of progress.

In the US, we name relatively few things for people. In other countries, they name everything for someone. Mexico City’s Rodeo Drive is named Avenida President Mazaryk. I would not have known of him if I didn’t visit Mexico.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom%C3%A1%C5%A1_Garrigue_Masaryk

[spdrun]

For people outside the US, anyway.

There are plenty of Washington, Lincoln, Jefferson, Adams, Wilson, Davis, Roosevelt, etc place names.

[Author]

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