OT: Best Discussion yet on Obamacare IMO: Nixon

[FlyerInHi]

Joec, the thing about China is that they read our major websites and they know exactly what’s going on here. We don’t really know what goes on there expect for what our press reports. Knowledge is power.

China will catch up with us, but unless they embrace immigration and make it easy for expats to come work and stay,, they will grow old within 50 years.

I’m still bullish on the US long term because we are best equipped to absorb immigrants who will grow the economy. We might complain about affordability, but our housing is the cheapest, most modern and comfortable in the developed world, PPSF.

[livinincali]

[quote]
Nobody is saying universal (single payer) systems are without their faults, but no one is denied health care. Budgets are trimmed, waste is slashed, and taxes go up, but health care still remains a fundamental right. Under a free market system, you are at the mercy of a corporation. You have no guarantees so it is the policy holders who get pushed out of the system.
[/quote]

In some cases you are denied health care in single payer system. See most elective surgeries in single payer countries. You could wait years to get a hip replacement and could die before received one. I suppose we can say you were in the queue so you weren’t denied but effectively you were. You didn’t get the surgery you wanted/needed for an improved quality of life before your life ended. The same is true under a capitalistic system if you don’t have the money for a hip replacement you don’t get one either.

Single payer is essentially a price control system. Since there is only one payer of services, the single payer sets the price for each service. You could implement price controls without single payer. We all know what tends to happen in price controlled systems. There usually ends up being shortages because the price is artificially lowered.

[Jazzman]

[quote=livinincali][quote]
Nobody is saying universal (single payer) systems are without their faults, but no one is denied health care. Budgets are trimmed, waste is slashed, and taxes go up, but health care still remains a fundamental right. Under a free market system, you are at the mercy of a corporation. You have no guarantees so it is the policy holders who get pushed out of the system.
[/quote]

In some cases you are denied health care in single payer system. See most elective surgeries in single payer countries. You could wait years to get a hip replacement and could die before received one. I suppose we can say you were in the queue so you weren’t denied but effectively you were. You didn’t get the surgery you wanted/needed for an improved quality of life before your life ended. The same is true under a capitalistic system if you don’t have the money for a hip replacement you don’t get one either.

Single payer is essentially a price control system. Since there is only one payer of services, the single payer sets the price for each service. You could implement price controls without single payer. We all know what tends to happen in price controlled systems. There usually ends up being shortages because the price is artificially lowered.[/quote]
In some cases, yes the system gets over-loaded and long waits are not unknown. As I said, national health care is not perfect. But the comparison is meaningless when you have 48 million without insurance. That is almost the whole population of single-payer country. Private healthcare is also the single biggest cause of personal bankruptcy. So it’s pretty clear where the biggest shortages are. Look, you can defend private health care, and berate public health care all you want, but the facts speak volumes. It is your choice whether to accept or reject them. I personally don’t care which system prevails as long as it provides a guarantee of affordable health care in times of need. That is what it is all about. Not who has the biggest dick.

[scaredyclassic]

i regret not being a plastic surgeon who did breast enlargement. I knew i shoudlvvebeen a plastic surgeon, but back int he 1970s it seemed limited to new noses for jewish girls in my neighborhood. who know there were millions of breasts that wantedto be worked on…

breast enlargements not covered by obamacare, right

[joec]

As expected, some people are leaving jobs that they never even wanted with ACA moving forward. Also, stated, some people who don’t have any job may take some of these “decent/crappy” jobs with healthcare from people who didn’t want them to begin with or wanted to retire, etc… A more proper alignment and better use of work resources overall to have people working who actually wants to be there.

The ACA: Losing Jobs vs. Choosing Not to Work

[Coronita]

[quote=joec]As expected, some people are leaving jobs that they never even wanted with ACA moving forward. Also, stated, some people who don’t have any job may take some of these “decent/crappy” jobs with healthcare from people who didn’t want them to begin with or wanted to retire, etc… A more proper alignment and better use of work resources overall to have people working who actually wants to be there.

http://www.factcheck.org/2014/02/the-aca-losing-job-vs-choosing-not-to-work/%5B/quote%5D

from the quoted article….

#1
[quote]
The CBO has explained that those with low incomes would have more financial resources due to the expansion of Medicaid and subsidies to purchase health insurance, which would “encourage some people to work fewer hours or to withdraw from the labor market.”
[/quote]

#2
[quote]
Plus, the CBO said, some workers nearing retirement will retire earlier than normal because the law provides more protections for health insurance, such as limiting how much more companies can charge older people and requiring the coverage of preexisting conditions.
[/quote]

Ok, for #2, I see as a retiree why this would be good. They worked, and retired…Ok I get that..

However, regarding #1, how is #1 a good thing by having people choosing not to work and depending more on social benefits???? Seriously?

And with #1 and #2, who is going to pay more for this?? Younger people???

[joec]

#1 was already being supported by everyone else and younger people with jobs anyways. Young people who are poor or don’t work get the same poor person benefits.

It isn’t a matter of young or old, but like it was mentioned many times, people with no money already get free healthcare…and a lot of other “free” stuff.

I’d say if being “poor” was that great, more people should try it . Overall, I’d guess it still sucks majorly and no one is getting “rich” from using social benefits.

So do not so poor farmers who get guaranteed payments from the Farm Bill, etc…

You, me, everyone else who has a job and taxes already are paying in this “great” system we currently have.

The more you read with all our strange laws and you realize it’s all royally f*cked all over imo .

[spdrun]

CBO report — tempest in a teapot. Real unemployment in the US is probably 10-15%. If some people get out of the labor force or go part-time, there will be others more than willing and able to take their places.

Secondly, you don’t need to get a subsidy to benefit from the exchanges. Being able to buy individual insurance at what are essentially group rates is a benefit in itself. I’d suspect that some of the “dropouts” will go on to start small businesses, which they weren’t previously able to, since they were priced out of the individual market due to pre-existing conditions or whatever. Better for them than being tied to a job that they hate by the insurance system, and going to work every day wanting to kick their boss’s teeth in.

Lastly, if this leads to more couples working less than two full-time jobs between them, it will probably be good for the kids and reduce marital stress. Yeah, I’m a liberal who’s a big believer in the one to 1.5-job family.

[scaredyclassic]

Idler

academy and literature for idlers…

[zk]

[quote=scaredyclassic]but back int he 1970s it seemed limited to new noses for jewish girls in my neighborhood. [/quote]

What a shame. I love a good Jewish nose.

[Coronita]

.

[scaredyclassic]

they were not in style at the time.

[scaredyclassic]

maybe they need to do a jeopardy show where they give you the punchline and you ahve to gguess the joke.

alex, i’ll take jewish jokes for 50.

“Because air is free.”

[CDMA ENG]

[quote=zk][quote=scaredyclassic]but back int he 1970s it seemed limited to new noses for jewish girls in my neighborhood. [/quote]

What a shame. I love a good Jewish nose.[/quote]

What about a WOP Knot?

CE

[zk]

[quote=CDMA ENG][quote=zk][quote=scaredyclassic]but back int he 1970s it seemed limited to new noses for jewish girls in my neighborhood. [/quote]

What a shame. I love a good Jewish nose.[/quote]

What about a WOP Knot?

CE[/quote]

I like those, too.

[Author]

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