OT – Alcoholism and Addiction

[briansd1]

walter, since you did research on the benefit of alcohol, do you think that all drinks are equal?

Wine, beer and hard liquor. I would think that the latter too don’t provide much benefits because they lack the antioxidants of wine. Beer is basically starch.

More broadly on the topic of addiction, my dad in his youth traveled to Laos. It was the time of Air America and plenty of Americans worked there (such as Alexander Haig).

Back then, my dad smoked opium. Only a small percent got addicted. And according to him, the addiction rate is about the same as today’s prohibition system in America.

He said that opium is wonderful and it’s a great way to kill pain, and die if you wish (only if euthanasia were legal).

[NotCranky]

[quote=outtamojo]

Here is some info on the genetics of NON-alcoholics. There is a drug available that makes you feel terrible when you drink, which, on the flip side of this topic, is how I feel when I drink. Yeah, that’s why some don’t really join the party : (, all it takes is a few sips.
http://www.indiana.edu/~rcapub/v17n3/p18.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetaldehyde_dehydrogenase

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disulfiram%5B/quote%5D

I don’t understand what you are saying, Mojo.

You just don’t like the effects of drinking so you can’t really be at risk for destructive drinking? … Or you are an alcoholic, and a pill that makes people who enjoy drinking ,but are not problem drinkers sick, proves that there is a genetic link to “alcoholism”?

The study the first link seems to have serious cause and effect logic problems. A “stay sober” pill proves nothing, even if it works, because it works on everyone.

Antabuse has been around for a long time. It has the ingredient mentioned in your study.

Now we have this,Naltrexone, for treatment of Anorexia and Bulimia.I won’t say these things are not useful tool for some problems(though I doubt it). Does the advent and institutionalizing of a pill prove the genetic predisposition to bulimia and anorexia? It proves to me that someone is making money, or trying to, off a pill for everything.

Problem drinking, Bulimia, Anorexia are “mistakes” not diseases. People make and often make them all the way to the grave.People laugh at this “mistake” idea, I know, because asking onself why they can’t quit making the mistake is something they won’t or can’t do. If the excessive drinker can’t admit it is a mistake while young,like many of us have, it may be impossible to correct or may be nearly impossible to correct, other than by total abstinence.It is an established Pavlovian effect, so to speak, not a genetic one.

[NotCranky]

[quote=outtamojo]

Here is some info on the genetics of NON-alcoholics. There is a drug available that makes you feel terrible when you drink, which, on the flip side of this topic, is how I feel when I drink. Yeah, that’s why some don’t really join the party : (, all it takes is a few sips.
http://www.indiana.edu/~rcapub/v17n3/p18.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetaldehyde_dehydrogenase

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disulfiram%5B/quote%5D

I don’t understand what you are saying, Mojo.

You just don’t like the effects of drinking so you can’t really be at risk for destructive drinking? … Or you are an alcoholic, and a pill that makes people who enjoy drinking ,but are not problem drinkers sick, proves that there is a genetic link to “alcoholism”?

The study the first link seems to have serious cause and effect logic problems. A “stay sober” pill proves nothing, even if it works, because it works on everyone.

Antabuse has been around for a long time. It has the ingredient mentioned in your study.

Now we have this,Naltrexone, for treatment of Anorexia and Bulimia.I won’t say these things are not useful tool for some problems(though I doubt it). Does the advent and institutionalizing of a pill prove the genetic predisposition to bulimia and anorexia? It proves to me that someone is making money, or trying to, off a pill for everything.

Problem drinking, Bulimia, Anorexia are “mistakes” not diseases. People make and often make them all the way to the grave.People laugh at this “mistake” idea, I know, because asking onself why they can’t quit making the mistake is something they won’t or can’t do. If the excessive drinker can’t admit it is a mistake while young,like many of us have, it may be impossible to correct or may be nearly impossible to correct, other than by total abstinence.It is an established Pavlovian effect, so to speak, not a genetic one.

[NotCranky]

[quote=outtamojo]

Here is some info on the genetics of NON-alcoholics. There is a drug available that makes you feel terrible when you drink, which, on the flip side of this topic, is how I feel when I drink. Yeah, that’s why some don’t really join the party : (, all it takes is a few sips.
http://www.indiana.edu/~rcapub/v17n3/p18.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetaldehyde_dehydrogenase

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disulfiram%5B/quote%5D

I don’t understand what you are saying, Mojo.

You just don’t like the effects of drinking so you can’t really be at risk for destructive drinking? … Or you are an alcoholic, and a pill that makes people who enjoy drinking ,but are not problem drinkers sick, proves that there is a genetic link to “alcoholism”?

The study the first link seems to have serious cause and effect logic problems. A “stay sober” pill proves nothing, even if it works, because it works on everyone.

Antabuse has been around for a long time. It has the ingredient mentioned in your study.

Now we have this,Naltrexone, for treatment of Anorexia and Bulimia.I won’t say these things are not useful tool for some problems(though I doubt it). Does the advent and institutionalizing of a pill prove the genetic predisposition to bulimia and anorexia? It proves to me that someone is making money, or trying to, off a pill for everything.

Problem drinking, Bulimia, Anorexia are “mistakes” not diseases. People make and often make them all the way to the grave.People laugh at this “mistake” idea, I know, because asking onself why they can’t quit making the mistake is something they won’t or can’t do. If the excessive drinker can’t admit it is a mistake while young,like many of us have, it may be impossible to correct or may be nearly impossible to correct, other than by total abstinence.It is an established Pavlovian effect, so to speak, not a genetic one.

[NotCranky]

[quote=outtamojo]

Here is some info on the genetics of NON-alcoholics. There is a drug available that makes you feel terrible when you drink, which, on the flip side of this topic, is how I feel when I drink. Yeah, that’s why some don’t really join the party : (, all it takes is a few sips.
http://www.indiana.edu/~rcapub/v17n3/p18.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetaldehyde_dehydrogenase

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disulfiram%5B/quote%5D

I don’t understand what you are saying, Mojo.

You just don’t like the effects of drinking so you can’t really be at risk for destructive drinking? … Or you are an alcoholic, and a pill that makes people who enjoy drinking ,but are not problem drinkers sick, proves that there is a genetic link to “alcoholism”?

The study the first link seems to have serious cause and effect logic problems. A “stay sober” pill proves nothing, even if it works, because it works on everyone.

Antabuse has been around for a long time. It has the ingredient mentioned in your study.

Now we have this,Naltrexone, for treatment of Anorexia and Bulimia.I won’t say these things are not useful tool for some problems(though I doubt it). Does the advent and institutionalizing of a pill prove the genetic predisposition to bulimia and anorexia? It proves to me that someone is making money, or trying to, off a pill for everything.

Problem drinking, Bulimia, Anorexia are “mistakes” not diseases. People make and often make them all the way to the grave.People laugh at this “mistake” idea, I know, because asking onself why they can’t quit making the mistake is something they won’t or can’t do. If the excessive drinker can’t admit it is a mistake while young,like many of us have, it may be impossible to correct or may be nearly impossible to correct, other than by total abstinence.It is an established Pavlovian effect, so to speak, not a genetic one.

[NotCranky]

[quote=outtamojo]

Here is some info on the genetics of NON-alcoholics. There is a drug available that makes you feel terrible when you drink, which, on the flip side of this topic, is how I feel when I drink. Yeah, that’s why some don’t really join the party : (, all it takes is a few sips.
http://www.indiana.edu/~rcapub/v17n3/p18.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetaldehyde_dehydrogenase

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disulfiram%5B/quote%5D

I don’t understand what you are saying, Mojo.

You just don’t like the effects of drinking so you can’t really be at risk for destructive drinking? … Or you are an alcoholic, and a pill that makes people who enjoy drinking ,but are not problem drinkers sick, proves that there is a genetic link to “alcoholism”?

The study the first link seems to have serious cause and effect logic problems. A “stay sober” pill proves nothing, even if it works, because it works on everyone.

Antabuse has been around for a long time. It has the ingredient mentioned in your study.

Now we have this,Naltrexone, for treatment of Anorexia and Bulimia.I won’t say these things are not useful tool for some problems(though I doubt it). Does the advent and institutionalizing of a pill prove the genetic predisposition to bulimia and anorexia? It proves to me that someone is making money, or trying to, off a pill for everything.

Problem drinking, Bulimia, Anorexia are “mistakes” not diseases. People make and often make them all the way to the grave.People laugh at this “mistake” idea, I know, because asking onself why they can’t quit making the mistake is something they won’t or can’t do. If the excessive drinker can’t admit it is a mistake while young,like many of us have, it may be impossible to correct or may be nearly impossible to correct, other than by total abstinence.It is an established Pavlovian effect, so to speak, not a genetic one.

[scaredyclassic]

My backstory is my dr. Wife and I disagreed for over a decade on whether my drinking every single night at dinner was good or bad for health. My position was that someday science would prove what is obvious to me. Eventually studies showed alcohol drinking correlates w health. I think wine is best because it’s fruit. Beer is ok but I’d rather drink hard alcohol before beer. But I haven’t researched it. I just scan her incoming medical journals for articles and irritantingly wave them in triumph. Not really research. Now she just says I’m at risk if I go over two drinks per night, and she’s probably right but I try to keep it down to 3. Usually with success. I’m pretty sure it’s nervousness that will Jill mr so ghe risk of that extra drink is worth it

[scaredyclassic]

My backstory is my dr. Wife and I disagreed for over a decade on whether my drinking every single night at dinner was good or bad for health. My position was that someday science would prove what is obvious to me. Eventually studies showed alcohol drinking correlates w health. I think wine is best because it’s fruit. Beer is ok but I’d rather drink hard alcohol before beer. But I haven’t researched it. I just scan her incoming medical journals for articles and irritantingly wave them in triumph. Not really research. Now she just says I’m at risk if I go over two drinks per night, and she’s probably right but I try to keep it down to 3. Usually with success. I’m pretty sure it’s nervousness that will Jill mr so ghe risk of that extra drink is worth it

[scaredyclassic]

My backstory is my dr. Wife and I disagreed for over a decade on whether my drinking every single night at dinner was good or bad for health. My position was that someday science would prove what is obvious to me. Eventually studies showed alcohol drinking correlates w health. I think wine is best because it’s fruit. Beer is ok but I’d rather drink hard alcohol before beer. But I haven’t researched it. I just scan her incoming medical journals for articles and irritantingly wave them in triumph. Not really research. Now she just says I’m at risk if I go over two drinks per night, and she’s probably right but I try to keep it down to 3. Usually with success. I’m pretty sure it’s nervousness that will Jill mr so ghe risk of that extra drink is worth it

[scaredyclassic]

My backstory is my dr. Wife and I disagreed for over a decade on whether my drinking every single night at dinner was good or bad for health. My position was that someday science would prove what is obvious to me. Eventually studies showed alcohol drinking correlates w health. I think wine is best because it’s fruit. Beer is ok but I’d rather drink hard alcohol before beer. But I haven’t researched it. I just scan her incoming medical journals for articles and irritantingly wave them in triumph. Not really research. Now she just says I’m at risk if I go over two drinks per night, and she’s probably right but I try to keep it down to 3. Usually with success. I’m pretty sure it’s nervousness that will Jill mr so ghe risk of that extra drink is worth it

[scaredyclassic]

My backstory is my dr. Wife and I disagreed for over a decade on whether my drinking every single night at dinner was good or bad for health. My position was that someday science would prove what is obvious to me. Eventually studies showed alcohol drinking correlates w health. I think wine is best because it’s fruit. Beer is ok but I’d rather drink hard alcohol before beer. But I haven’t researched it. I just scan her incoming medical journals for articles and irritantingly wave them in triumph. Not really research. Now she just says I’m at risk if I go over two drinks per night, and she’s probably right but I try to keep it down to 3. Usually with success. I’m pretty sure it’s nervousness that will Jill mr so ghe risk of that extra drink is worth it

[outtamojo]

[quote=Rustico][quote=outtamojo]

Here is some info on the genetics of NON-alcoholics. There is a drug available that makes you feel terrible when you drink, which, on the flip side of this topic, is how I feel when I drink. Yeah, that’s why some don’t really join the party : (, all it takes is a few sips.
http://www.indiana.edu/~rcapub/v17n3/p18.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetaldehyde_dehydrogenase

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disulfiram%5B/quote%5D

I don’t understand what you are saying, Mojo.

You just don’t like the effects of drinking so you can’t really be at risk for destructive drinking? … Or you are an alcoholic, and a pill that makes people who enjoy drinking ,but are not problem drinkers sick, proves that there is a genetic link to “alcoholism”?

The study the first link seems to have serious cause and effect logic problems. A “stay sober” pill proves nothing, even if it works, because it works on everyone.

Antabuse has been around for a long time. It has the ingredient mentioned in your study.

Now we have this,Naltrexone, for treatment of Anorexia and Bulimia.I won’t say these things are not useful tool for some problems(though I doubt it). Does the advent and institutionalizing of a pill prove the genetic predisposition to bulimia and anorexia? It proves to me that someone is making money, or trying to, off a pill for everything.

Problem drinking, Bulimia, Anorexia are “mistakes” not diseases. People make and often make them all the way to the grave.People laugh at this “mistake” idea, I know, because asking onself why they can’t quit making the mistake is something they won’t or can’t do. If the excessive drinker can’t admit it is a mistake while young,like many of us have, it may be impossible to correct or may be nearly impossible to correct, other than by total abstinence.It is an established Pavlovian effect, so to speak, not a genetic one.[/quote]

Ok, I wil try to be more clear- some folks, like myself, have a mutant gene that does not allow us to break down alcohol in the normal manner. Before we get a buzz, we get ill, so we never get to the buzz stage and so alcohol is not enjoyable at all. A lot of us are conditioned to associate alcohol with fun, so while everyone else is buzzed up, we are ill and wondering what the big deal is until we learn why. This ill effect before we get buzzed results in a much lower rate of alcoholism than those with the normal gene. It is not a matter of “not liking” the effect unless you are someone that likes a punch in the face. Yes, many normal drinkers drink too much and throw up and get hangovers but those with the aldehyde dehydrogenase
mutation never even reach the stage that makes you want more.

[outtamojo]

[quote=Rustico][quote=outtamojo]

Here is some info on the genetics of NON-alcoholics. There is a drug available that makes you feel terrible when you drink, which, on the flip side of this topic, is how I feel when I drink. Yeah, that’s why some don’t really join the party : (, all it takes is a few sips.
http://www.indiana.edu/~rcapub/v17n3/p18.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetaldehyde_dehydrogenase

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disulfiram%5B/quote%5D

I don’t understand what you are saying, Mojo.

You just don’t like the effects of drinking so you can’t really be at risk for destructive drinking? … Or you are an alcoholic, and a pill that makes people who enjoy drinking ,but are not problem drinkers sick, proves that there is a genetic link to “alcoholism”?

The study the first link seems to have serious cause and effect logic problems. A “stay sober” pill proves nothing, even if it works, because it works on everyone.

Antabuse has been around for a long time. It has the ingredient mentioned in your study.

Now we have this,Naltrexone, for treatment of Anorexia and Bulimia.I won’t say these things are not useful tool for some problems(though I doubt it). Does the advent and institutionalizing of a pill prove the genetic predisposition to bulimia and anorexia? It proves to me that someone is making money, or trying to, off a pill for everything.

Problem drinking, Bulimia, Anorexia are “mistakes” not diseases. People make and often make them all the way to the grave.People laugh at this “mistake” idea, I know, because asking onself why they can’t quit making the mistake is something they won’t or can’t do. If the excessive drinker can’t admit it is a mistake while young,like many of us have, it may be impossible to correct or may be nearly impossible to correct, other than by total abstinence.It is an established Pavlovian effect, so to speak, not a genetic one.[/quote]

Ok, I wil try to be more clear- some folks, like myself, have a mutant gene that does not allow us to break down alcohol in the normal manner. Before we get a buzz, we get ill, so we never get to the buzz stage and so alcohol is not enjoyable at all. A lot of us are conditioned to associate alcohol with fun, so while everyone else is buzzed up, we are ill and wondering what the big deal is until we learn why. This ill effect before we get buzzed results in a much lower rate of alcoholism than those with the normal gene. It is not a matter of “not liking” the effect unless you are someone that likes a punch in the face. Yes, many normal drinkers drink too much and throw up and get hangovers but those with the aldehyde dehydrogenase
mutation never even reach the stage that makes you want more.

[outtamojo]

[quote=Rustico][quote=outtamojo]

Here is some info on the genetics of NON-alcoholics. There is a drug available that makes you feel terrible when you drink, which, on the flip side of this topic, is how I feel when I drink. Yeah, that’s why some don’t really join the party : (, all it takes is a few sips.
http://www.indiana.edu/~rcapub/v17n3/p18.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetaldehyde_dehydrogenase

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disulfiram%5B/quote%5D

I don’t understand what you are saying, Mojo.

You just don’t like the effects of drinking so you can’t really be at risk for destructive drinking? … Or you are an alcoholic, and a pill that makes people who enjoy drinking ,but are not problem drinkers sick, proves that there is a genetic link to “alcoholism”?

The study the first link seems to have serious cause and effect logic problems. A “stay sober” pill proves nothing, even if it works, because it works on everyone.

Antabuse has been around for a long time. It has the ingredient mentioned in your study.

Now we have this,Naltrexone, for treatment of Anorexia and Bulimia.I won’t say these things are not useful tool for some problems(though I doubt it). Does the advent and institutionalizing of a pill prove the genetic predisposition to bulimia and anorexia? It proves to me that someone is making money, or trying to, off a pill for everything.

Problem drinking, Bulimia, Anorexia are “mistakes” not diseases. People make and often make them all the way to the grave.People laugh at this “mistake” idea, I know, because asking onself why they can’t quit making the mistake is something they won’t or can’t do. If the excessive drinker can’t admit it is a mistake while young,like many of us have, it may be impossible to correct or may be nearly impossible to correct, other than by total abstinence.It is an established Pavlovian effect, so to speak, not a genetic one.[/quote]

Ok, I wil try to be more clear- some folks, like myself, have a mutant gene that does not allow us to break down alcohol in the normal manner. Before we get a buzz, we get ill, so we never get to the buzz stage and so alcohol is not enjoyable at all. A lot of us are conditioned to associate alcohol with fun, so while everyone else is buzzed up, we are ill and wondering what the big deal is until we learn why. This ill effect before we get buzzed results in a much lower rate of alcoholism than those with the normal gene. It is not a matter of “not liking” the effect unless you are someone that likes a punch in the face. Yes, many normal drinkers drink too much and throw up and get hangovers but those with the aldehyde dehydrogenase
mutation never even reach the stage that makes you want more.

[outtamojo]

[quote=Rustico][quote=outtamojo]

Here is some info on the genetics of NON-alcoholics. There is a drug available that makes you feel terrible when you drink, which, on the flip side of this topic, is how I feel when I drink. Yeah, that’s why some don’t really join the party : (, all it takes is a few sips.
http://www.indiana.edu/~rcapub/v17n3/p18.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetaldehyde_dehydrogenase

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disulfiram%5B/quote%5D

I don’t understand what you are saying, Mojo.

You just don’t like the effects of drinking so you can’t really be at risk for destructive drinking? … Or you are an alcoholic, and a pill that makes people who enjoy drinking ,but are not problem drinkers sick, proves that there is a genetic link to “alcoholism”?

The study the first link seems to have serious cause and effect logic problems. A “stay sober” pill proves nothing, even if it works, because it works on everyone.

Antabuse has been around for a long time. It has the ingredient mentioned in your study.

Now we have this,Naltrexone, for treatment of Anorexia and Bulimia.I won’t say these things are not useful tool for some problems(though I doubt it). Does the advent and institutionalizing of a pill prove the genetic predisposition to bulimia and anorexia? It proves to me that someone is making money, or trying to, off a pill for everything.

Problem drinking, Bulimia, Anorexia are “mistakes” not diseases. People make and often make them all the way to the grave.People laugh at this “mistake” idea, I know, because asking onself why they can’t quit making the mistake is something they won’t or can’t do. If the excessive drinker can’t admit it is a mistake while young,like many of us have, it may be impossible to correct or may be nearly impossible to correct, other than by total abstinence.It is an established Pavlovian effect, so to speak, not a genetic one.[/quote]

Ok, I wil try to be more clear- some folks, like myself, have a mutant gene that does not allow us to break down alcohol in the normal manner. Before we get a buzz, we get ill, so we never get to the buzz stage and so alcohol is not enjoyable at all. A lot of us are conditioned to associate alcohol with fun, so while everyone else is buzzed up, we are ill and wondering what the big deal is until we learn why. This ill effect before we get buzzed results in a much lower rate of alcoholism than those with the normal gene. It is not a matter of “not liking” the effect unless you are someone that likes a punch in the face. Yes, many normal drinkers drink too much and throw up and get hangovers but those with the aldehyde dehydrogenase
mutation never even reach the stage that makes you want more.

[Author]

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