OT: weight training

[scaredyclassic]

I’m not saying don’t buy the car; just put a good body into it.

[briansd1]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]

Brian: Do you have a dueling scar?[/quote]

Yes, I do.

I was never a big guy and could never have made the football team. That’s American culture so I felt marginalized. Then I reationalized and made the best of it.

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook] Bodybuilder joke for you. Q: How many bodybuilders does it take to screw in a lightbulb?

A: Two. One to screw in the lightbulb and the other to stand below and yell, “You’re looking HUGE, man, you’re looking HUGE!”[/quote]

Touche. That’s the American culture, psychological part of it.

[quote=walterwhite]I’m not saying don’t buy the car; just put a good body into it.[/quote]

The questions is what’s a good body? A lean soccer player’s bod, or a HUGE American football player’s?

I know that football players make millions, but what does the average Joe get out of it?

I think that people who are huge already, and can’t lose the weight, opt fo the football player’s look out of necessity. Then it becomes self-reinforcing.

Small and lean is much better for health and longevity.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=briansd1][quote=Allan from Fallbrook]

Brian: Do you have a dueling scar?[/quote]

Yes, I do.

I was never a big guy and could never have made the football team. That’s American culture so I felt marginalized. Then I reationalized and made the best of it.

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook] Bodybuilder joke for you. Q: How many bodybuilders does it take to screw in a lightbulb?

A: Two. One to screw in the lightbulb and the other to stand below and yell, “You’re looking HUGE, man, you’re looking HUGE!”[/quote]

Touche. That’s the American culture, psychological part of it.

[quote=walterwhite]I’m not saying don’t buy the car; just put a good body into it.[/quote]

The questions is what’s a good body? A lean soccer player’s bod, or a HUGE American football player’s?

I know that football players make millions, but what does the average Joe get out of it?

I think that people who are huge already, and can’t lose the weight, opt fo the football player’s look out of necessity. Then it becomes self-reinforcing.

Small and lean is much better for health and longevity.[/quote]

Brian: It’s interesting that the most feared player on my football team was our strong safety, who was 5′ 9” and 165lbs. Guy’s nickname was “Banzai” and he hit like a hammer (mainly because he led with his lid at full speed, hence the nickname). He was not huge by any stretch of the imagination. The huge guys are generally found on the O and D lines, but most skill players (i.e. QBs, wide outs, defensive backs) tend to be smaller, leaner and faster than the “meat” on the line.

When I was in the Army, most of the guys in Special Forces were smaller and leaner, as endurance and the ability to move quickly and quietly were prized. Guys like me (6′ and 190lbs) were the exception, not the rule.

In terms of body building/weight lifting, you can develop strength without extreme muscle mass, and its always better to have a good mix of anaerobic and aerobic exercises (strength AND speed).

You look at someone like Clay Matthews, who is a linebacker for the Packers. He’s 6′ 3″, 255lbs, but has a 36″ vertical and runs a 4.67 forty yard dash. You can have physical size and have speed and agility as well. Doesn’t have to be either or.

[scaredyclassic]

Damn . I think my testosterone levels were extra high lifting this morning. I wish I had discovered the deadlift and the squat when I was 18. I think my whole life wouldve been different.

[CardiffBaseball]

Brian like many things in life you have these odd preconceived notions that are just bizarre.

1. The greatest athletes in the US in terms of measureables that measure speed, strength, agility, vertical leap, etc. are football players. Specifically the positions of running back and defensive back are loaded with freaks of nature. They aren’t fat.
2. Linebackers – really strong guys who can run sub 4.5 40 yard dashes. Not fat.
3. Wide receivers – these days MAJOR freaks of nature. 6’5″ guys with 40 inch vertical leaps and can twist their bodies in the air with the grace of a gymnast. They stop on a dime, change direction and leap over guys in an instant. not fat.
4. Safeties – See WRs. Not quite as tall but guys who are almost as fast as anyone on the field, bench press 450, and blow you up when given the chance. not fat.

Every single athletic endeavor you could possibly undertake would be enhanced dramatically if you could deadlift 3X body weight. Gymnastics, Distance running, triathalons etc.

Nobody cares if you didn’t play football but that doesn’t mean you need to knock football players. Neither of my kids are playing and they are big-ass kids but both are more like D-1 baseball whereas in football maybe D-3 if they are lucky. Actually my oldest might play his Sr. year, we shall see. My point is I am not a football dad, but I would never ever make the mistake of poo-pooing football players to trump up soccer players. I am a baseball dad and do not think baseball players are more athletic for one minute. Soccer is fine in it’s own right, and more often than not a display of aerobic capacity and skill, rather than a great measure of athleticism. There are less freaks of nature in soccer as it pertains to athletic measurables, rather most great soccer players are simply phenoms with their feet, reaction time, stop and start quickness, and depth perception/vision etc.

We have some baseball players who come over after soccer is finished, and their 60 times are not quite as good as my kid with a deadlift/football mentality. Baseball measures 60 yard dash rather than 40 meter because a double in baseball equates to a 60, and unless you are a pitcher, catcher or first baseman you are expected to run a 7.0 second or better 60 by MLB teams.

One other thing possibly anecdotal, or perhaps not, but my kid had the fastest 60 time and fastest 2-mile on the team. Two completely different modalities, and I can’t help but wonder if it’s because he is the ONLY deadlifter on the team and was hoisting 350 for 5 reps. Is the reason is simply because he’s just so much stronger than everyone? On paper the little 145 lb. kid should beat him (he’s 6’2″ 195) in the two-mile but it doesn’t quite work out that way. Maybe they fatigue more quickly, it’s not just a lung capacity measurement.

If you ever have kids, let them get strong.

[scaredyclassic]

i think guy who are physically strong may experience the world in a different way than weaklings.

[EconProf]

This is a one-sided discussion in that it is ignoring the benefits of weight training for females. Women make up the majority of the attendees at the LA Fitness I go to, and an increasing share of the free weights users–perhaps 25%. And frankly, with toned arms, hard abs, and strong legs, they look great. Posture is greatly enhanced by the right kind of weight training, another advantage to both men and women.
Surely some female Piggs can weigh in here. Weight training, even if only using light weights and many repetitions, should continue into old age for both men and women.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=EconProf]This is a one-sided discussion in that it is ignoring the benefits of weight training for females. Women make up the majority of the attendees at the LA Fitness I go to, and an increasing share of the free weights users–perhaps 25%. And frankly, with toned arms, hard abs, and strong legs, they look great. Posture is greatly enhanced by the right kind of weight training, another advantage to both men and women.
Surely some female Piggs can weigh in here. Weight training, even if only using light weights and many repetitions, should continue into old age for both men and women.[/quote]

Completely agree, Econprof. Where I work out, there are many females over the age of 65 doing various forms of circuit and lightweight training a few times per wk. Several look like a better version of their 45 yo selves :=]

I also take classes there with several female students 70-75 years old who have years of being a “gym rat” behind them – and it shows!

[EconProf]

Agreed BG, and in the same vein of women doing free weights, some of the guys could really benefit from doing yoga. Nothing is more silly than a hulking muscle-bound guy with no flexibility and hunched-over shoulders. Yoga can fix that. Take a class and incorporate some of the stretching into every weight-lifting workout.
And while I’m bloviating, let me put in a word for pullups. They have a wonderful stretching out effect on your shoulders and back, and obviously strengthen biceps and help posture. (Yes, I have a fetish about posture.) If age or weight prevent one from doing even one pullup (which describes most people over 30), there are machines in the gyms to give you an assist on pullups.
I don’t get the appeal of deadlifts. Stopped them long ago when I hurt my back. Squats, done right, are far better for the legs and butt–men and women. Instead of deadlifts, pull the weeds in your yard for half an hour.

[briansd1]

[quote=EconProf] Nothing is more silly than a hulking muscle-bound guy with no flexibility and hunched-over shoulders.
[/quote]

I so agree.

[quote=EconProf]
And while I’m bloviating, let me put in a word for pullups. They have a wonderful stretching out effect on your shoulders and back, and obviously strengthen biceps and help posture. (Yes, I have a fetish about posture.)
[/quote]

Again I agree. Posture and proportions are key. Good posture and proportions are just more beautiful.

[quote=EconProf]
Instead of deadlifts, pull the weeds in your yard for half an hour.[/quote]

I know guys who can deadlift, but can’t bend over to pickup the junk they drop on the ground. They would think that pulling weeds is harder.

[scaredyclassic]

I’m on the http://www.twentypullups.com program, week 4. Goal is to get to twent consecutive pullups. Hoping to be there by thanksgiving. Got my little 9 year old on it too. That little musclehead pumps out the pullups astonishingly well. We had the good fortune to pass s marines recruiter booth at a college fair. Do a certain number of pullups win a prize. My 16 year old busted out 17 w just fingertips ( rock climbing bonus). The little guy did 5. Crowd pleaser. He was doing better than most of the newbie recruits manning the table according to them.

Lots of pullups. But the deadlifts adds something to my life that has been missing.

The ancient Greek tale about the farmer who carries a calf every day until soon he us carrying a bull…this is weight training…adding some every time…

Can’t really get that with weeds.

Grow or die.

[briansd1]

[quote=CardiffBaseball]Brian like many things in life you have these odd preconceived notions that are just bizarre.

1. The greatest athletes in the US in terms of measureables that measure speed, strength, agility, vertical leap, etc. are football players. Specifically the positions of running back and defensive back are loaded with freaks of nature. They aren’t fat. [/quote]

Cardiff, I’m not dissing football players.

In professional sports, the athletes mortgage their bodies for a payoff with a clear understanding of the risk and rewards.

As you said, they are freaks of nature.

For the general populations (the average Joe and Jane who are not freaks of nature), there is no need to emulate those athletes.

I worry that, in America, we have an epidemic of obesity. Because it’s too hard to lose weight, many folks will chose to bulk up instead.

Take a guy who went from 180# to 255# over the last 15 years. So rather than losing weight he juices on protein supplements to lift more, just to claim that he’s strong. Pretty soon he’ll be able to lift a great deal of weight, but his own weight will balloon to 300#. That is so silly.

I believe the reason for that is popular sports culture encourages that type of self-destructive behavior.

[quote=walterwhite]i think guy who are physically strong may experience the world in a different way than weaklings.[/quote]

There are strong guys who can lift big barbells, but they have no endurance. They experience energy crashes with lows and highs, and they are hurting their own health.

You want to be strong with endurance, proportionately balanced, and healthy.

You also want good, even temperament with a well balanced diet. I’ve observed people who experience mood swings and constantly need energizer, picker-up type stimulation all the time (coffee, candy bar, protein, beer, etc… )

IMO, if you can fast the whole day and can still operate normally in an even-tempered manner, then you’re strong physically and mentally.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=EconProf]Agreed BG, and in the same vein of women doing free weights, some of the guys could really benefit from doing yoga. Nothing is more silly than a hulking muscle-bound guy with no flexibility and hunched-over shoulders. Yoga can fix that. Take a class and incorporate some of the stretching into every weight-lifting workout.
And while I’m bloviating, let me put in a word for pullups. They have a wonderful stretching out effect on your shoulders and back, and obviously strengthen biceps and help posture. (Yes, I have a fetish about posture.) If age or weight prevent one from doing even one pullup (which describes most people over 30), there are machines in the gyms to give you an assist on pullups.
I don’t get the appeal of deadlifts. Stopped them long ago when I hurt my back. Squats, done right, are far better for the legs and butt–men and women. Instead of deadlifts, pull the weeds in your yard for half an hour.[/quote]

EconProf: Its all about program, and the program should include BOTH aerobic and anaerobic components and there is NO reason you cannot have BOTH strength and speed/flexibility.

And you don’t a gym to achieve this. When I was in the Army, all you needed were shoes, shorts and a shirt. You did your roadwork to start and then pushups, pullups and situps. Like you, I’m a huge fan of pullups as well, but don’t forget pushups and situps (done correctly, no hands behind the neck). These improve your core and your posture.

Scaredy is right about one thing: Grow or die. Work the program and always be improving. Herschel Walker is a very instructive case: He did not lift weights, focusing solely on roadwork and pushups/pullups/situps. Dude is now pushing 50 and is still a specimen.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Brian: You take one anecdote and then extrapolate out to include an entire group of people.

Cardiff and I are both making the same point, and one you’re choosing to ignore: No one is saying that becoming a musclebound monster is the way to go; to the contrary, we’re arguing that there are plenty of programs the “average Joe” can use that will work wonders.

Shit, go for an hour walk everyday. That’s what I do and, in conjunction with a good diet, I maintain my ideal body weight. You don’t need a gym to do this. If you work an office job, go for a walk at lunch (I used to do this during my corporate days). It clears your head and relieves a great deal of stress at the same time.

Plenty of ways to go.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook] . . . go for an hour walk everyday. That’s what I do and, in conjunction with a good diet, I maintain my ideal body weight. You don’t need a gym to do this. If you work an office job, go for a walk at lunch (I used to do this during my corporate days). It clears your head and relieves a great deal of stress at the same time.

Plenty of ways to go.[/quote]

Allan, I used to walk a lot around the neighborhood in the eves. I still walk my dog short distances. Even though I felt fine, the results weren’t there. For the average Joe or Jane, the plethora of free weights, circuit-training machines and classes (+ “free” utilities running the pool and jacuzzi) can’t be had anywhere but a gym. Most people don’t have storage room for all that equipment (even if they could afford to buy it) and don’t have the expertise to do a yoga class (for example) by themselves.

A gym membership is a GREAT VALUE, but only if you use it regularly.

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