Open House – Rants & Raves

[RatherOpinionated]

I haven’t seen a thread on this topic, so my apologies if it was already done. Not sure if there are actually any potential buyers on this forum, or if everyone is a bearish perma-renter. If you’re the latter, then you should skip this post.

Those actually in the market for homes and who have been house hunting, perhaps this would be an interesting place to post your comments on a particular property so others who are in the market (in that same area) can benefit from it.

Useful details of course include:
– Address/Zip/MLS Number
– Date of Open House you attended
– Comments on house, price, location, schools, circumstances of sale, etc (anything useful)

If this is a pointless thread it will die quick, if people think it’s worth it, well, post away.

[img_assist|nid=5758|title=|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=419|height=500]

[NotCranky]

R.O.
I have actually thought about a pitch thread. Another realtor on the board and I have discussed it via e-mail. Our consensus was that I should run it by the blogmaster.I decided not to. It is not that I am saying you should, just pointing out that this idea has been considered.Yours truly thinks there will be good deals long before the bottom and therefore long before that sentiment shifts.

I actually can see your idea having a good purpose here. Sentiment is going to be tough still and for the most part, rightfully so IMO. I believe that most people here don’t want to watch the “knife catching olympics”(credit TG). I wonder if this idea of pitching properties won’t be more commonly accepted when people start to get off the fence.
Who knows? Maybe you have picked the right time and place?

BTW, I have a can’t miss, property to sell you R.O.

[RatherOpinionated]

I’m just thinking that not ALL people who visit this board care about “timing the bottom” – and might just be in the market for a home. Some might already own and look to upgrade, or downgrade, so their properties may be fluctuating in tandem – so property price declines may not be as big of an issue.

Anyhow, houses are going pending, so people are buying. So, if there are any of those people on this site that have been visiting open houses, I just thought this may be an interesting place to comment on what they’ve seen.

Of course, it is likely only negative things will come from this thread, since a real buyer who really likes a place is highly unlikely to pump it up in this thread for fear that another buyer may recognize the value and pose a threat to their potential offer.

I guess this is the perfect thread for this board/readership, since it inherently will be negative.

Oh well.

[img_assist|nid=5758|title=|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=419|height=500]

[NotCranky]

R.O.
I forgot to ask,why specifically open houses? The vast majority do not identify houses they think are good deals or that they buy, via open houses.

I get the impression that you are not seeing some of the good stuff that happens here(on the blog), both towards coaching people who are buying or selling, including helping people decide not to do either.
I like your idea or some version of it. i just want to point out that there is already plenty of good information sharing here, once an area merits it or when someone specifically brings it up. Take the active Murrieta thread for instance and threads by Raptorduck and others who admit they are shopping.

[NotCranky]

R.O.
I forgot to ask,why specifically open houses? The vast majority do not identify houses they think are good deals or that they buy, via open houses.

I get the impression that you are not seeing some of the good stuff that happens here(on the blog), both towards coaching people who are buying or selling, including helping people decide not to do either.
I like your idea or some version of it. i just want to point out that there is already plenty of good information sharing here, once an area merits it or when someone specifically brings it up. Take the active Murrieta thread for instance and threads by Raptorduck and others who admit they are shopping.

[NotCranky]

R.O.
I forgot to ask,why specifically open houses? The vast majority do not identify houses they think are good deals or that they buy, via open houses.

I get the impression that you are not seeing some of the good stuff that happens here(on the blog), both towards coaching people who are buying or selling, including helping people decide not to do either.
I like your idea or some version of it. i just want to point out that there is already plenty of good information sharing here, once an area merits it or when someone specifically brings it up. Take the active Murrieta thread for instance and threads by Raptorduck and others who admit they are shopping.

[NotCranky]

R.O.
I forgot to ask,why specifically open houses? The vast majority do not identify houses they think are good deals or that they buy, via open houses.

I get the impression that you are not seeing some of the good stuff that happens here(on the blog), both towards coaching people who are buying or selling, including helping people decide not to do either.
I like your idea or some version of it. i just want to point out that there is already plenty of good information sharing here, once an area merits it or when someone specifically brings it up. Take the active Murrieta thread for instance and threads by Raptorduck and others who admit they are shopping.

[NotCranky]

R.O.
I forgot to ask,why specifically open houses? The vast majority do not identify houses they think are good deals or that they buy, via open houses.

I get the impression that you are not seeing some of the good stuff that happens here(on the blog), both towards coaching people who are buying or selling, including helping people decide not to do either.
I like your idea or some version of it. i just want to point out that there is already plenty of good information sharing here, once an area merits it or when someone specifically brings it up. Take the active Murrieta thread for instance and threads by Raptorduck and others who admit they are shopping.

[RatherOpinionated]

I’m just thinking that not ALL people who visit this board care about “timing the bottom” – and might just be in the market for a home. Some might already own and look to upgrade, or downgrade, so their properties may be fluctuating in tandem – so property price declines may not be as big of an issue.

Anyhow, houses are going pending, so people are buying. So, if there are any of those people on this site that have been visiting open houses, I just thought this may be an interesting place to comment on what they’ve seen.

Of course, it is likely only negative things will come from this thread, since a real buyer who really likes a place is highly unlikely to pump it up in this thread for fear that another buyer may recognize the value and pose a threat to their potential offer.

I guess this is the perfect thread for this board/readership, since it inherently will be negative.

Oh well.

[img_assist|nid=5758|title=|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=419|height=500]

[RatherOpinionated]

I’m just thinking that not ALL people who visit this board care about “timing the bottom” – and might just be in the market for a home. Some might already own and look to upgrade, or downgrade, so their properties may be fluctuating in tandem – so property price declines may not be as big of an issue.

Anyhow, houses are going pending, so people are buying. So, if there are any of those people on this site that have been visiting open houses, I just thought this may be an interesting place to comment on what they’ve seen.

Of course, it is likely only negative things will come from this thread, since a real buyer who really likes a place is highly unlikely to pump it up in this thread for fear that another buyer may recognize the value and pose a threat to their potential offer.

I guess this is the perfect thread for this board/readership, since it inherently will be negative.

Oh well.

[img_assist|nid=5758|title=|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=419|height=500]

[RatherOpinionated]

I’m just thinking that not ALL people who visit this board care about “timing the bottom” – and might just be in the market for a home. Some might already own and look to upgrade, or downgrade, so their properties may be fluctuating in tandem – so property price declines may not be as big of an issue.

Anyhow, houses are going pending, so people are buying. So, if there are any of those people on this site that have been visiting open houses, I just thought this may be an interesting place to comment on what they’ve seen.

Of course, it is likely only negative things will come from this thread, since a real buyer who really likes a place is highly unlikely to pump it up in this thread for fear that another buyer may recognize the value and pose a threat to their potential offer.

I guess this is the perfect thread for this board/readership, since it inherently will be negative.

Oh well.

[img_assist|nid=5758|title=|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=419|height=500]

[RatherOpinionated]

I’m just thinking that not ALL people who visit this board care about “timing the bottom” – and might just be in the market for a home. Some might already own and look to upgrade, or downgrade, so their properties may be fluctuating in tandem – so property price declines may not be as big of an issue.

Anyhow, houses are going pending, so people are buying. So, if there are any of those people on this site that have been visiting open houses, I just thought this may be an interesting place to comment on what they’ve seen.

Of course, it is likely only negative things will come from this thread, since a real buyer who really likes a place is highly unlikely to pump it up in this thread for fear that another buyer may recognize the value and pose a threat to their potential offer.

I guess this is the perfect thread for this board/readership, since it inherently will be negative.

Oh well.

[img_assist|nid=5758|title=|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=419|height=500]

[NotCranky]

R.O.
I have actually thought about a pitch thread. Another realtor on the board and I have discussed it via e-mail. Our consensus was that I should run it by the blogmaster.I decided not to. It is not that I am saying you should, just pointing out that this idea has been considered.Yours truly thinks there will be good deals long before the bottom and therefore long before that sentiment shifts.

I actually can see your idea having a good purpose here. Sentiment is going to be tough still and for the most part, rightfully so IMO. I believe that most people here don’t want to watch the “knife catching olympics”(credit TG). I wonder if this idea of pitching properties won’t be more commonly accepted when people start to get off the fence.
Who knows? Maybe you have picked the right time and place?

BTW, I have a can’t miss, property to sell you R.O.

[NotCranky]

R.O.
I have actually thought about a pitch thread. Another realtor on the board and I have discussed it via e-mail. Our consensus was that I should run it by the blogmaster.I decided not to. It is not that I am saying you should, just pointing out that this idea has been considered.Yours truly thinks there will be good deals long before the bottom and therefore long before that sentiment shifts.

I actually can see your idea having a good purpose here. Sentiment is going to be tough still and for the most part, rightfully so IMO. I believe that most people here don’t want to watch the “knife catching olympics”(credit TG). I wonder if this idea of pitching properties won’t be more commonly accepted when people start to get off the fence.
Who knows? Maybe you have picked the right time and place?

BTW, I have a can’t miss, property to sell you R.O.

[NotCranky]

R.O.
I have actually thought about a pitch thread. Another realtor on the board and I have discussed it via e-mail. Our consensus was that I should run it by the blogmaster.I decided not to. It is not that I am saying you should, just pointing out that this idea has been considered.Yours truly thinks there will be good deals long before the bottom and therefore long before that sentiment shifts.

I actually can see your idea having a good purpose here. Sentiment is going to be tough still and for the most part, rightfully so IMO. I believe that most people here don’t want to watch the “knife catching olympics”(credit TG). I wonder if this idea of pitching properties won’t be more commonly accepted when people start to get off the fence.
Who knows? Maybe you have picked the right time and place?

BTW, I have a can’t miss, property to sell you R.O.

[NotCranky]

R.O.
I have actually thought about a pitch thread. Another realtor on the board and I have discussed it via e-mail. Our consensus was that I should run it by the blogmaster.I decided not to. It is not that I am saying you should, just pointing out that this idea has been considered.Yours truly thinks there will be good deals long before the bottom and therefore long before that sentiment shifts.

I actually can see your idea having a good purpose here. Sentiment is going to be tough still and for the most part, rightfully so IMO. I believe that most people here don’t want to watch the “knife catching olympics”(credit TG). I wonder if this idea of pitching properties won’t be more commonly accepted when people start to get off the fence.
Who knows? Maybe you have picked the right time and place?

BTW, I have a can’t miss, property to sell you R.O.

[barnaby33]

Hey RO, if you find something you think is a good deal, let the community know. Others regularly do, or at least ask about properties. The response they get is that almost universally bearish because its too early in the cycle for any real deals to occur. Most of the real price declines are in the future and the readership here knows it. So in order to qualify as a good deal, it would probably need to satisfy basic good deal metrics, like 8xGRM. Know any deals like that?

If however you find something, unless you are going to bid, you should share. Same goes for you Rustico.

Josh

[RatherOpinionated]

Yeah, good points everyone. I guess I listed Open Houses only as one method. There are all the other posts that are good, but I just figured this was an area that was not covered in the other posts – physically seeing properties and commenting on them (not just finding them online and commenting on them that way).

Maybe it just wasn’t a great idea as a thread. Oh well.
[img_assist|nid=5758|title=|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=419|height=500]

[(former)FormerSanDiegan]

Good idea.
But, I haven’t been to an open house in a couple years.
I’m thinking about maybe hitting some in 2008 … but not until the numbers on my spreadsheet get a little more attractive.

[SD Realtor]

I think there is some merit in the idea. As Rus posted earlier in the thread, he has run the idea by me before. The crux of the decision lies with “the creator” right? His site, his rules, his ultimate decision.

I would not want this site to turn into an SDCIA sort of deal. Sometimes it is hard to figure out where to draw the line right? I mean besides having a posting board or area where good deals can be advertised there are other opportunities. Certainly the board is frequented by experts in other fields, not just real estate, financing, contracting so perhaps an area to post contacts there could be beneficial.

Anyways I am on the fence about it all. I do see value in it but it would be for selfish reasons of making money. I think the very best deals I find I would keep for myself or pass on to investors who are clients or potential clients. Sorry just being honest.

Like I said, I like the idea.

SD Realtor

[barnaby33]

I goto open houses all the time. Mostly in my neck of the woods. Northpark/Hillcrest/Mission Hills/University heights. I don’t post about them because as I said before its way too early for any truly good deals.

I went to an open house on sunday. They wanted 760 for a 2/2 no garage on a canyon with lots of stairs. True they had renovated it some, but it was 300% the cost of renting.

Open houses these days tend to be Albatross’ that look nice but won’t be sold. So the agent sits it, hoping to pick up buying clients. I’d say that almost all of the open houses I have seen recently have been egregiously overpriced. Not just overpriced, egregiously.

Josh

[barnaby33]

I goto open houses all the time. Mostly in my neck of the woods. Northpark/Hillcrest/Mission Hills/University heights. I don’t post about them because as I said before its way too early for any truly good deals.

I went to an open house on sunday. They wanted 760 for a 2/2 no garage on a canyon with lots of stairs. True they had renovated it some, but it was 300% the cost of renting.

Open houses these days tend to be Albatross’ that look nice but won’t be sold. So the agent sits it, hoping to pick up buying clients. I’d say that almost all of the open houses I have seen recently have been egregiously overpriced. Not just overpriced, egregiously.

Josh

[barnaby33]

I goto open houses all the time. Mostly in my neck of the woods. Northpark/Hillcrest/Mission Hills/University heights. I don’t post about them because as I said before its way too early for any truly good deals.

I went to an open house on sunday. They wanted 760 for a 2/2 no garage on a canyon with lots of stairs. True they had renovated it some, but it was 300% the cost of renting.

Open houses these days tend to be Albatross’ that look nice but won’t be sold. So the agent sits it, hoping to pick up buying clients. I’d say that almost all of the open houses I have seen recently have been egregiously overpriced. Not just overpriced, egregiously.

Josh

[barnaby33]

I goto open houses all the time. Mostly in my neck of the woods. Northpark/Hillcrest/Mission Hills/University heights. I don’t post about them because as I said before its way too early for any truly good deals.

I went to an open house on sunday. They wanted 760 for a 2/2 no garage on a canyon with lots of stairs. True they had renovated it some, but it was 300% the cost of renting.

Open houses these days tend to be Albatross’ that look nice but won’t be sold. So the agent sits it, hoping to pick up buying clients. I’d say that almost all of the open houses I have seen recently have been egregiously overpriced. Not just overpriced, egregiously.

Josh

[barnaby33]

I goto open houses all the time. Mostly in my neck of the woods. Northpark/Hillcrest/Mission Hills/University heights. I don’t post about them because as I said before its way too early for any truly good deals.

I went to an open house on sunday. They wanted 760 for a 2/2 no garage on a canyon with lots of stairs. True they had renovated it some, but it was 300% the cost of renting.

Open houses these days tend to be Albatross’ that look nice but won’t be sold. So the agent sits it, hoping to pick up buying clients. I’d say that almost all of the open houses I have seen recently have been egregiously overpriced. Not just overpriced, egregiously.

Josh

[SD Realtor]

I think there is some merit in the idea. As Rus posted earlier in the thread, he has run the idea by me before. The crux of the decision lies with “the creator” right? His site, his rules, his ultimate decision.

I would not want this site to turn into an SDCIA sort of deal. Sometimes it is hard to figure out where to draw the line right? I mean besides having a posting board or area where good deals can be advertised there are other opportunities. Certainly the board is frequented by experts in other fields, not just real estate, financing, contracting so perhaps an area to post contacts there could be beneficial.

Anyways I am on the fence about it all. I do see value in it but it would be for selfish reasons of making money. I think the very best deals I find I would keep for myself or pass on to investors who are clients or potential clients. Sorry just being honest.

Like I said, I like the idea.

SD Realtor

[SD Realtor]

I think there is some merit in the idea. As Rus posted earlier in the thread, he has run the idea by me before. The crux of the decision lies with “the creator” right? His site, his rules, his ultimate decision.

I would not want this site to turn into an SDCIA sort of deal. Sometimes it is hard to figure out where to draw the line right? I mean besides having a posting board or area where good deals can be advertised there are other opportunities. Certainly the board is frequented by experts in other fields, not just real estate, financing, contracting so perhaps an area to post contacts there could be beneficial.

Anyways I am on the fence about it all. I do see value in it but it would be for selfish reasons of making money. I think the very best deals I find I would keep for myself or pass on to investors who are clients or potential clients. Sorry just being honest.

Like I said, I like the idea.

SD Realtor

[SD Realtor]

I think there is some merit in the idea. As Rus posted earlier in the thread, he has run the idea by me before. The crux of the decision lies with “the creator” right? His site, his rules, his ultimate decision.

I would not want this site to turn into an SDCIA sort of deal. Sometimes it is hard to figure out where to draw the line right? I mean besides having a posting board or area where good deals can be advertised there are other opportunities. Certainly the board is frequented by experts in other fields, not just real estate, financing, contracting so perhaps an area to post contacts there could be beneficial.

Anyways I am on the fence about it all. I do see value in it but it would be for selfish reasons of making money. I think the very best deals I find I would keep for myself or pass on to investors who are clients or potential clients. Sorry just being honest.

Like I said, I like the idea.

SD Realtor

[SD Realtor]

I think there is some merit in the idea. As Rus posted earlier in the thread, he has run the idea by me before. The crux of the decision lies with “the creator” right? His site, his rules, his ultimate decision.

I would not want this site to turn into an SDCIA sort of deal. Sometimes it is hard to figure out where to draw the line right? I mean besides having a posting board or area where good deals can be advertised there are other opportunities. Certainly the board is frequented by experts in other fields, not just real estate, financing, contracting so perhaps an area to post contacts there could be beneficial.

Anyways I am on the fence about it all. I do see value in it but it would be for selfish reasons of making money. I think the very best deals I find I would keep for myself or pass on to investors who are clients or potential clients. Sorry just being honest.

Like I said, I like the idea.

SD Realtor

[(former)FormerSanDiegan]

Good idea.
But, I haven’t been to an open house in a couple years.
I’m thinking about maybe hitting some in 2008 … but not until the numbers on my spreadsheet get a little more attractive.

[(former)FormerSanDiegan]

Good idea.
But, I haven’t been to an open house in a couple years.
I’m thinking about maybe hitting some in 2008 … but not until the numbers on my spreadsheet get a little more attractive.

[(former)FormerSanDiegan]

Good idea.
But, I haven’t been to an open house in a couple years.
I’m thinking about maybe hitting some in 2008 … but not until the numbers on my spreadsheet get a little more attractive.

[(former)FormerSanDiegan]

Good idea.
But, I haven’t been to an open house in a couple years.
I’m thinking about maybe hitting some in 2008 … but not until the numbers on my spreadsheet get a little more attractive.

[RatherOpinionated]

Yeah, good points everyone. I guess I listed Open Houses only as one method. There are all the other posts that are good, but I just figured this was an area that was not covered in the other posts – physically seeing properties and commenting on them (not just finding them online and commenting on them that way).

Maybe it just wasn’t a great idea as a thread. Oh well.
[img_assist|nid=5758|title=|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=419|height=500]

[RatherOpinionated]

Yeah, good points everyone. I guess I listed Open Houses only as one method. There are all the other posts that are good, but I just figured this was an area that was not covered in the other posts – physically seeing properties and commenting on them (not just finding them online and commenting on them that way).

Maybe it just wasn’t a great idea as a thread. Oh well.
[img_assist|nid=5758|title=|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=419|height=500]

[RatherOpinionated]

Yeah, good points everyone. I guess I listed Open Houses only as one method. There are all the other posts that are good, but I just figured this was an area that was not covered in the other posts – physically seeing properties and commenting on them (not just finding them online and commenting on them that way).

Maybe it just wasn’t a great idea as a thread. Oh well.
[img_assist|nid=5758|title=|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=419|height=500]

[RatherOpinionated]

Yeah, good points everyone. I guess I listed Open Houses only as one method. There are all the other posts that are good, but I just figured this was an area that was not covered in the other posts – physically seeing properties and commenting on them (not just finding them online and commenting on them that way).

Maybe it just wasn’t a great idea as a thread. Oh well.
[img_assist|nid=5758|title=|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=419|height=500]

[Jumby]

“8xGRM”….you are kidding right? That is very hard to find anywhere in the US, unless it’s a piece of crap or in a bad hood. I’m just as bearish as anybody on this board, but GRM of 8 ain’t gonna happen in Diego….I really wish it would though because I would be investing like crazy and selling it like crazy.

[barnaby33]

“8xGRM”….you are kidding right? Hardly, there are plenty of places where you can buy things in a decent area for this, especially once house prices deflate to a more realistic level. It all depends on your view of history. If you see as I do that we have lived our entire lives in an inflationary bubble, then 8xGRM is an artifact from a bygone era. If you see deflation in our future, even that might be a bit expensive.

At this point houses are merely highly leveraged gambling devices. If inflation keeps up and you keep your job, you win. If deflation takes hold and you bought in the last 5 years, you’re screwed.

Either way overall housing returns to the same formulas time and again. Maybe Sd won’t return to those types of numbers, I could be totally wrong there, but I certainly don’t think its crazy.

Josh

[surveyor]

8xGRM

The 4 unit I am purchasing now in Huntsville Alabama is running at a 6.4xGRM…

http://piggington.com/re_sale_in_huntsville_al

The property is not in a La Jolla class neighborhood for sure, but it is a decent area with lots of tenants across from a military base. The purchase price is $115k and annual rents total $18000 (the post shows $117k sales price, but he is paying closing costs so it’s now down to $115k).

If I had more money, I’d buy ten of these… As such, I will be content to buy two more…

[HereWeGo]

surveyor –
Why was the seller willing to part with the property? Is he retiring or somesuch? Also, is the seller a Huntsville resident?

[surveyor]

I do not know specifically why he was selling the property. I asked my realtor to ask him a few times, but he never got an answer. He originally bought the property for $95k about three years ago, but he put a lot of work into it. He may have been tired of the property or may just have finished re-habbing the property. With all the bad news on real estate, he may not have been able to get as many buyers, or he was probably spooked by all the negative news. He also was keen on closing before the end of the year (and so the closing date is on December 28). Why he wanted that, I do not know…

In any case, he was asking for way too much ($139.9k) and we worked him down. My original offer was $110k and we prodded him down using comparables in the neighborhood. Also, we were in no rush and we were looking at 15 other properties with similar numbers. Finally he came back to us, asked if we would go up a little and we did.

I have to look at what I posted in the other topic post, but I think I calc’d out $300 per month cash flow, a return on equity of 43%, and a cash on cash of 18%. The total closing costs are estimated at around $12k (which reminds me, I have to put together that money…).

[surveyor]

I do not know specifically why he was selling the property. I asked my realtor to ask him a few times, but he never got an answer. He originally bought the property for $95k about three years ago, but he put a lot of work into it. He may have been tired of the property or may just have finished re-habbing the property. With all the bad news on real estate, he may not have been able to get as many buyers, or he was probably spooked by all the negative news. He also was keen on closing before the end of the year (and so the closing date is on December 28). Why he wanted that, I do not know…

In any case, he was asking for way too much ($139.9k) and we worked him down. My original offer was $110k and we prodded him down using comparables in the neighborhood. Also, we were in no rush and we were looking at 15 other properties with similar numbers. Finally he came back to us, asked if we would go up a little and we did.

I have to look at what I posted in the other topic post, but I think I calc’d out $300 per month cash flow, a return on equity of 43%, and a cash on cash of 18%. The total closing costs are estimated at around $12k (which reminds me, I have to put together that money…).

[surveyor]

I do not know specifically why he was selling the property. I asked my realtor to ask him a few times, but he never got an answer. He originally bought the property for $95k about three years ago, but he put a lot of work into it. He may have been tired of the property or may just have finished re-habbing the property. With all the bad news on real estate, he may not have been able to get as many buyers, or he was probably spooked by all the negative news. He also was keen on closing before the end of the year (and so the closing date is on December 28). Why he wanted that, I do not know…

In any case, he was asking for way too much ($139.9k) and we worked him down. My original offer was $110k and we prodded him down using comparables in the neighborhood. Also, we were in no rush and we were looking at 15 other properties with similar numbers. Finally he came back to us, asked if we would go up a little and we did.

I have to look at what I posted in the other topic post, but I think I calc’d out $300 per month cash flow, a return on equity of 43%, and a cash on cash of 18%. The total closing costs are estimated at around $12k (which reminds me, I have to put together that money…).

[surveyor]

I do not know specifically why he was selling the property. I asked my realtor to ask him a few times, but he never got an answer. He originally bought the property for $95k about three years ago, but he put a lot of work into it. He may have been tired of the property or may just have finished re-habbing the property. With all the bad news on real estate, he may not have been able to get as many buyers, or he was probably spooked by all the negative news. He also was keen on closing before the end of the year (and so the closing date is on December 28). Why he wanted that, I do not know…

In any case, he was asking for way too much ($139.9k) and we worked him down. My original offer was $110k and we prodded him down using comparables in the neighborhood. Also, we were in no rush and we were looking at 15 other properties with similar numbers. Finally he came back to us, asked if we would go up a little and we did.

I have to look at what I posted in the other topic post, but I think I calc’d out $300 per month cash flow, a return on equity of 43%, and a cash on cash of 18%. The total closing costs are estimated at around $12k (which reminds me, I have to put together that money…).

[surveyor]

I do not know specifically why he was selling the property. I asked my realtor to ask him a few times, but he never got an answer. He originally bought the property for $95k about three years ago, but he put a lot of work into it. He may have been tired of the property or may just have finished re-habbing the property. With all the bad news on real estate, he may not have been able to get as many buyers, or he was probably spooked by all the negative news. He also was keen on closing before the end of the year (and so the closing date is on December 28). Why he wanted that, I do not know…

In any case, he was asking for way too much ($139.9k) and we worked him down. My original offer was $110k and we prodded him down using comparables in the neighborhood. Also, we were in no rush and we were looking at 15 other properties with similar numbers. Finally he came back to us, asked if we would go up a little and we did.

I have to look at what I posted in the other topic post, but I think I calc’d out $300 per month cash flow, a return on equity of 43%, and a cash on cash of 18%. The total closing costs are estimated at around $12k (which reminds me, I have to put together that money…).

[HereWeGo]

surveyor –
Why was the seller willing to part with the property? Is he retiring or somesuch? Also, is the seller a Huntsville resident?

[HereWeGo]

surveyor –
Why was the seller willing to part with the property? Is he retiring or somesuch? Also, is the seller a Huntsville resident?

[HereWeGo]

surveyor –
Why was the seller willing to part with the property? Is he retiring or somesuch? Also, is the seller a Huntsville resident?

[HereWeGo]

surveyor –
Why was the seller willing to part with the property? Is he retiring or somesuch? Also, is the seller a Huntsville resident?

[surveyor]

8xGRM

The 4 unit I am purchasing now in Huntsville Alabama is running at a 6.4xGRM…

http://piggington.com/re_sale_in_huntsville_al

The property is not in a La Jolla class neighborhood for sure, but it is a decent area with lots of tenants across from a military base. The purchase price is $115k and annual rents total $18000 (the post shows $117k sales price, but he is paying closing costs so it’s now down to $115k).

If I had more money, I’d buy ten of these… As such, I will be content to buy two more…

[surveyor]

8xGRM

The 4 unit I am purchasing now in Huntsville Alabama is running at a 6.4xGRM…

http://piggington.com/re_sale_in_huntsville_al

The property is not in a La Jolla class neighborhood for sure, but it is a decent area with lots of tenants across from a military base. The purchase price is $115k and annual rents total $18000 (the post shows $117k sales price, but he is paying closing costs so it’s now down to $115k).

If I had more money, I’d buy ten of these… As such, I will be content to buy two more…

[surveyor]

8xGRM

The 4 unit I am purchasing now in Huntsville Alabama is running at a 6.4xGRM…

http://piggington.com/re_sale_in_huntsville_al

The property is not in a La Jolla class neighborhood for sure, but it is a decent area with lots of tenants across from a military base. The purchase price is $115k and annual rents total $18000 (the post shows $117k sales price, but he is paying closing costs so it’s now down to $115k).

If I had more money, I’d buy ten of these… As such, I will be content to buy two more…

[surveyor]

8xGRM

The 4 unit I am purchasing now in Huntsville Alabama is running at a 6.4xGRM…

http://piggington.com/re_sale_in_huntsville_al

The property is not in a La Jolla class neighborhood for sure, but it is a decent area with lots of tenants across from a military base. The purchase price is $115k and annual rents total $18000 (the post shows $117k sales price, but he is paying closing costs so it’s now down to $115k).

If I had more money, I’d buy ten of these… As such, I will be content to buy two more…

[Jumby]

I hear ya Josh, I just don’t think Diego will ever get back to that point…

Surv, let me know if I’m wrong, but it didn’t seem that you factored in the interest deduction in your tax savings (in that equation). Seemed like you only factored in straight line depreciation.

[surveyor]

Tax savings is such a difficult thing to calculate because it changes from person to person. Every person’s situation is different and so I just used a generalized tax savings calculation.

But yes, I did just use straight line depreciation.

Also, note that I used the entire property cost ($117k) to calculate the depreciation. Only about 80% of that $117k will be actual depreciation (because you can’t depreciate the cost of the land itself, only the building). The rest of the 20% will comprise of the interest deduction, the expenses, chattel depreciation.

[Jumby]

Care to share some pics? I’m on loopnet right now and all the 4 plexes i see are in the 200s…

[surveyor]

I can share some pictures as soon as I get home. It’s all on my home computer. Most of the fourplexes I saw were not listed on loopnet, though.

The fourplexes I saw ranged from $80k (non-brick construction) to $180k (all brick construction).

[Jumby]

that would be cool…what county is huntsville in?

[surveyor]

Madison County.

[Jumby]

too bad that county doesn’t qualify for the GO Zone…

[Jumby]

too bad that county doesn’t qualify for the GO Zone…

[Jumby]

too bad that county doesn’t qualify for the GO Zone…

[Jumby]

too bad that county doesn’t qualify for the GO Zone…

[Jumby]

too bad that county doesn’t qualify for the GO Zone…

[SD Realtor]

Surveyor –

Yours is an example of diligence and hard work to achieve (what looks like) a potentially sound investment in rental property. Your methods appear to be based on alot of legwork, study, and working with local realtors/property managers. Also the most important point seems to be that a substantial amount of time studying the demographics/employment/economic (growth potential) of the areas you invest in is performed.

It is a very sound approach and has produced, and will continue to produce great returns for you. What is clearly evident, (at least to me) is that there is more work involved then people think. Congrats on your finds and I am sure there will be more in the future.

SD Realtor

[surveyor]

Thanks SD R…

I’ve actually been looking at Huntsville for the past year, but the credit crunch made it difficult to search for loans. I only entered the serious acquisition phase for Huntsville about three months ago. For Huntsville, it wasn’t nearly as much work because my realtor was an investor himself and he was extremely aggressive. We basically polled five properties and see who would deal.

Like I said, I wish I could get more money so that I could buy more, but oh well. I only have enough for two more. Still, that should be enough.

My next area for research is Nashville. I did take a look at New Orleans and the other GO Zone areas, but there is a lot of investor activity there bidding up projects so I’m reluctant to take part in that. I’m still a little small potatoes so I’d rather have a realtor give me at least most of their attention. So hopefully in 2008 I will be looking at some four plex in Nashville and making an offer on it.

I told my wife, it’s going to be difficult justifying buying a car when you can purchase a property for $15k…

[surveyor]

Thanks SD R…

I’ve actually been looking at Huntsville for the past year, but the credit crunch made it difficult to search for loans. I only entered the serious acquisition phase for Huntsville about three months ago. For Huntsville, it wasn’t nearly as much work because my realtor was an investor himself and he was extremely aggressive. We basically polled five properties and see who would deal.

Like I said, I wish I could get more money so that I could buy more, but oh well. I only have enough for two more. Still, that should be enough.

My next area for research is Nashville. I did take a look at New Orleans and the other GO Zone areas, but there is a lot of investor activity there bidding up projects so I’m reluctant to take part in that. I’m still a little small potatoes so I’d rather have a realtor give me at least most of their attention. So hopefully in 2008 I will be looking at some four plex in Nashville and making an offer on it.

I told my wife, it’s going to be difficult justifying buying a car when you can purchase a property for $15k…

[surveyor]

Thanks SD R…

I’ve actually been looking at Huntsville for the past year, but the credit crunch made it difficult to search for loans. I only entered the serious acquisition phase for Huntsville about three months ago. For Huntsville, it wasn’t nearly as much work because my realtor was an investor himself and he was extremely aggressive. We basically polled five properties and see who would deal.

Like I said, I wish I could get more money so that I could buy more, but oh well. I only have enough for two more. Still, that should be enough.

My next area for research is Nashville. I did take a look at New Orleans and the other GO Zone areas, but there is a lot of investor activity there bidding up projects so I’m reluctant to take part in that. I’m still a little small potatoes so I’d rather have a realtor give me at least most of their attention. So hopefully in 2008 I will be looking at some four plex in Nashville and making an offer on it.

I told my wife, it’s going to be difficult justifying buying a car when you can purchase a property for $15k…

[surveyor]

Thanks SD R…

I’ve actually been looking at Huntsville for the past year, but the credit crunch made it difficult to search for loans. I only entered the serious acquisition phase for Huntsville about three months ago. For Huntsville, it wasn’t nearly as much work because my realtor was an investor himself and he was extremely aggressive. We basically polled five properties and see who would deal.

Like I said, I wish I could get more money so that I could buy more, but oh well. I only have enough for two more. Still, that should be enough.

My next area for research is Nashville. I did take a look at New Orleans and the other GO Zone areas, but there is a lot of investor activity there bidding up projects so I’m reluctant to take part in that. I’m still a little small potatoes so I’d rather have a realtor give me at least most of their attention. So hopefully in 2008 I will be looking at some four plex in Nashville and making an offer on it.

I told my wife, it’s going to be difficult justifying buying a car when you can purchase a property for $15k…

[surveyor]

Thanks SD R…

I’ve actually been looking at Huntsville for the past year, but the credit crunch made it difficult to search for loans. I only entered the serious acquisition phase for Huntsville about three months ago. For Huntsville, it wasn’t nearly as much work because my realtor was an investor himself and he was extremely aggressive. We basically polled five properties and see who would deal.

Like I said, I wish I could get more money so that I could buy more, but oh well. I only have enough for two more. Still, that should be enough.

My next area for research is Nashville. I did take a look at New Orleans and the other GO Zone areas, but there is a lot of investor activity there bidding up projects so I’m reluctant to take part in that. I’m still a little small potatoes so I’d rather have a realtor give me at least most of their attention. So hopefully in 2008 I will be looking at some four plex in Nashville and making an offer on it.

I told my wife, it’s going to be difficult justifying buying a car when you can purchase a property for $15k…

[SD Realtor]

Surveyor –

Yours is an example of diligence and hard work to achieve (what looks like) a potentially sound investment in rental property. Your methods appear to be based on alot of legwork, study, and working with local realtors/property managers. Also the most important point seems to be that a substantial amount of time studying the demographics/employment/economic (growth potential) of the areas you invest in is performed.

It is a very sound approach and has produced, and will continue to produce great returns for you. What is clearly evident, (at least to me) is that there is more work involved then people think. Congrats on your finds and I am sure there will be more in the future.

SD Realtor

[SD Realtor]

Surveyor –

Yours is an example of diligence and hard work to achieve (what looks like) a potentially sound investment in rental property. Your methods appear to be based on alot of legwork, study, and working with local realtors/property managers. Also the most important point seems to be that a substantial amount of time studying the demographics/employment/economic (growth potential) of the areas you invest in is performed.

It is a very sound approach and has produced, and will continue to produce great returns for you. What is clearly evident, (at least to me) is that there is more work involved then people think. Congrats on your finds and I am sure there will be more in the future.

SD Realtor

[SD Realtor]

Surveyor –

Yours is an example of diligence and hard work to achieve (what looks like) a potentially sound investment in rental property. Your methods appear to be based on alot of legwork, study, and working with local realtors/property managers. Also the most important point seems to be that a substantial amount of time studying the demographics/employment/economic (growth potential) of the areas you invest in is performed.

It is a very sound approach and has produced, and will continue to produce great returns for you. What is clearly evident, (at least to me) is that there is more work involved then people think. Congrats on your finds and I am sure there will be more in the future.

SD Realtor

[SD Realtor]

Surveyor –

Yours is an example of diligence and hard work to achieve (what looks like) a potentially sound investment in rental property. Your methods appear to be based on alot of legwork, study, and working with local realtors/property managers. Also the most important point seems to be that a substantial amount of time studying the demographics/employment/economic (growth potential) of the areas you invest in is performed.

It is a very sound approach and has produced, and will continue to produce great returns for you. What is clearly evident, (at least to me) is that there is more work involved then people think. Congrats on your finds and I am sure there will be more in the future.

SD Realtor

[surveyor]

Madison County.

[surveyor]

Madison County.

[surveyor]

Madison County.

[surveyor]

Madison County.

[Jumby]

that would be cool…what county is huntsville in?

[Jumby]

that would be cool…what county is huntsville in?

[Jumby]

that would be cool…what county is huntsville in?

[Jumby]

that would be cool…what county is huntsville in?

[surveyor]

I can share some pictures as soon as I get home. It’s all on my home computer. Most of the fourplexes I saw were not listed on loopnet, though.

The fourplexes I saw ranged from $80k (non-brick construction) to $180k (all brick construction).

[surveyor]

I can share some pictures as soon as I get home. It’s all on my home computer. Most of the fourplexes I saw were not listed on loopnet, though.

The fourplexes I saw ranged from $80k (non-brick construction) to $180k (all brick construction).

[surveyor]

I can share some pictures as soon as I get home. It’s all on my home computer. Most of the fourplexes I saw were not listed on loopnet, though.

The fourplexes I saw ranged from $80k (non-brick construction) to $180k (all brick construction).

[surveyor]

I can share some pictures as soon as I get home. It’s all on my home computer. Most of the fourplexes I saw were not listed on loopnet, though.

The fourplexes I saw ranged from $80k (non-brick construction) to $180k (all brick construction).

[Jumby]

Care to share some pics? I’m on loopnet right now and all the 4 plexes i see are in the 200s…

[Jumby]

Care to share some pics? I’m on loopnet right now and all the 4 plexes i see are in the 200s…

[Jumby]

Care to share some pics? I’m on loopnet right now and all the 4 plexes i see are in the 200s…

[Jumby]

Care to share some pics? I’m on loopnet right now and all the 4 plexes i see are in the 200s…

[surveyor]

Tax savings is such a difficult thing to calculate because it changes from person to person. Every person’s situation is different and so I just used a generalized tax savings calculation.

But yes, I did just use straight line depreciation.

Also, note that I used the entire property cost ($117k) to calculate the depreciation. Only about 80% of that $117k will be actual depreciation (because you can’t depreciate the cost of the land itself, only the building). The rest of the 20% will comprise of the interest deduction, the expenses, chattel depreciation.

[surveyor]

Tax savings is such a difficult thing to calculate because it changes from person to person. Every person’s situation is different and so I just used a generalized tax savings calculation.

But yes, I did just use straight line depreciation.

Also, note that I used the entire property cost ($117k) to calculate the depreciation. Only about 80% of that $117k will be actual depreciation (because you can’t depreciate the cost of the land itself, only the building). The rest of the 20% will comprise of the interest deduction, the expenses, chattel depreciation.

[surveyor]

Tax savings is such a difficult thing to calculate because it changes from person to person. Every person’s situation is different and so I just used a generalized tax savings calculation.

But yes, I did just use straight line depreciation.

Also, note that I used the entire property cost ($117k) to calculate the depreciation. Only about 80% of that $117k will be actual depreciation (because you can’t depreciate the cost of the land itself, only the building). The rest of the 20% will comprise of the interest deduction, the expenses, chattel depreciation.

[surveyor]

Tax savings is such a difficult thing to calculate because it changes from person to person. Every person’s situation is different and so I just used a generalized tax savings calculation.

But yes, I did just use straight line depreciation.

Also, note that I used the entire property cost ($117k) to calculate the depreciation. Only about 80% of that $117k will be actual depreciation (because you can’t depreciate the cost of the land itself, only the building). The rest of the 20% will comprise of the interest deduction, the expenses, chattel depreciation.

[(former)FormerSanDiegan]

Surv, let me know if I’m wrong, but it didn’t seem that you factored in the interest deduction in your tax savings (in that equation). Seemed like you only factored in straight line depreciation.

????

The mortgage interest is simply an expense (as are property taxes, insurance, depreciation, maintenance, property management, advertising costs etc). These are deducted from the gross rent received, you only pay taxes on the amounts that exceed real (most of them) and phantom (depreciation) costs.

The accounting in the other link took into account mortgage expenses by subtracting them from gross rents. There is no other interest deduction to factor in.

[Jumby]

You CAN deduct interest for tax purposes on investment property.

[(former)FormerSanDiegan]

You CAN deduct interest for tax purposes on investment property.

As I stated above the mortgage interest is deducted from the gross rent received. (As are the other expenses mentioned). surveyor accounted for these in his calculation.

There is no additional “tax savings” for which to account by taking a mortgage interest deduction. He already accounted for that by subtracting it as an expense from gross rents.

[Jumby]

I was referring to data he posted in a different thread. He posted his numbers for Return on Equity (ROE).

Return on Equity = (the way he calculated it) Cash Flow + Appreciation + Loan Reduction + Tax Savings divided by down payment.

*************
What I originally said (and you first commented on) is he didn’t factor in the interest deduction when figuring his tax savings. He confirmed that by saying he purposely overcompensated by adding in too much depreciation (he didn’t subtract the land from the basis).

Make sense now? I got a feeling we are saying the same thing.

[surveyor]

[img_assist|nid=5882|title=Huntsville Property|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=466|height=352]

No, FSD is right, I thought you were referring to another interest deduction, not mortgage interest deduction. The mortgage interest deduction is taken away from the cash flow.

Some pictures…

 

 

[Jumby]

So it wasn’t gross cash flow, it was after tax cash flow when you figured the equation.

I guess I was mislead by “Tax Savings”. It would seem Cash Flow would be gross in this equation since there is a spot for Tax Savings.

[surveyor]

In my computations, cash flow is as follows:

CF = gross rents – mortgage interest – maintenance – property management fee – other expenses.

Tax Savings is as follows:

TX = (Depreciation allowance – Cash Flow – Loan Reduction)*Tax Rate

[Jumby]

“CF = gross rents – mortgage interest – maintenance – property management fee – other expenses.”

Why would you subtract mortgage interest to figure cash flow?

Wouldn’t it be gross rents – total debt service – operating expenses?

[surveyor]

Haha mice…

Yup, sorry, it is “debt service” or “mortgage payment” not mortgage interest…

[Jumby]

Technically speaking ROE = Cash Flow After Taxes / Initial Cash Investment.

Your CF was calculated WITHOUT factoring in depreciation (you saved that for later in the computation). That is why I assumed you didn’t take the mortgage interest into account.

Would it not make more sense to leave your CF as gross and then factor in all the deductions into the Tax Savings part later on in the computation?

Probably doesn’t matter…just saying…anyway, nice pickup.

[surveyor]

The ROE calculation was created to bring together the profitable aspects of real estate but usually were not supposed to be calculated together. At its heart is a simple return on investment equation. However, pick at it enough and it gets deep. Still, it is a useful calculation to judge how well properties perform over several different areas, locations, and sizes.

Like I said, cash flow is easy and most everyone knows how to calculate that.

Tax savings/benefits, is much more difficult to quantify and so therefore I leave a simplified calculation so that people can see how it is done.

[Jumby]

“Tax savings/benefits, is much more difficult to quantify and so therefore I leave a simplified calculation so that people can see how it is done.”

Not to beat a dead horse, but nothing I said conflicts with that.

I was simply saying it would make more sense to keep the cash flow as gross at the beginning and then factor in your tax savings in the alloted spot.

The interest deduction, depreciation, etc apply to everybody. The only difference is the tax bracket you are in and how much passive losses you are allowed.

But I’m probably beating this to death, I get nitpicky since I do this on a daily basis.

[NotCranky]

Thanks for posting surveyor.
The properties look nice. It does look like the roof needs attention. I have never been one to wait. It is not worth having it blow off in a big wind and rain storm. Maybe that is not the issue but it does look weak even in the pictures.

I had a few questions:
You said something about the target of equity withdrawals running a surplus. What did you mean. It sounds like you are saying that you took the equity from other rental property that still cash flows after increased encumbrances, or a personal residence that would if you had to put it on the market?

Bugs raised a concern about taking equity from California properties for seed money. I sort of concur. A good rule of thumb is to avoid withdrawals that would put cash flow on the California properties in the red. I am sure you have thought about this, just wanted to put in my .02 on that point.
Are you borrowing fixed or adjustable ? HELOC money?

I know you are, presenting for the board, more or less, a first year scenario. I think it is also important that you have put the probability of inflation(sooner or later) against your debt and the fact that your mortgages are being paid by a third party on your side . Have you crunched out return scenarios using some of those variables over longer periods of time?Cash flow is necessary bu tit is the long term that makes your “hassles” worth it IMO.

On the topic of the quality of enlisted personnel as tenants. First of all I think your units, as nice as they are, are not going to attract officers in droves. Maybe I am wrong. I also think there are more good enlisted people than bad, having been one myself for 6 years I think I am qualified to say that. Renting to military has the huge advantage of you or your property managers ability to appeal to the tenants chain of command if the person is messing up. I had a situation where a guy was subletting up and playing games with money. I told him I would be contacting his captain. Never before has a wallet opened up so fast and a guy turned from a big ass to kiss ass. On the other hand populations on certain types of bases rise and fall dramatically, even the civilian population. I would be concerned about that. I imagine you checked for long term base plans?

I did not see you account for vacancies. Maybe I missed it?

[Jumby]

I’m assuming part of the reason he bought in this area is because of the net gain in jobs thanks to the Base Realignments and Closures.

http://www.brac.gov/docs/final/AppendixO.pdf

[Jumby]

I’m assuming part of the reason he bought in this area is because of the net gain in jobs thanks to the Base Realignments and Closures.

http://www.brac.gov/docs/final/AppendixO.pdf

[Jumby]

I’m assuming part of the reason he bought in this area is because of the net gain in jobs thanks to the Base Realignments and Closures.

http://www.brac.gov/docs/final/AppendixO.pdf

[Jumby]

I’m assuming part of the reason he bought in this area is because of the net gain in jobs thanks to the Base Realignments and Closures.

http://www.brac.gov/docs/final/AppendixO.pdf

[Jumby]

I’m assuming part of the reason he bought in this area is because of the net gain in jobs thanks to the Base Realignments and Closures.

http://www.brac.gov/docs/final/AppendixO.pdf

[surveyor]

Lots of questions! Long answers.

1) Taking equity from California

The money ($12k) in question is coming from a rental property in California. The money is from a HELOC of 8.5% (thank you for lower interest rates, hahaha, it used to be at 9.5%, but still it’s not a lot of difference). It’s not fully used.

As for the wisdom of making a property cash flow negative by equity withdrawal, it is not recommended for most conservative people, but I have taken it into account already. The number to watch is called “cash on cash”. Whenever you are borrowing money to make money, the “cash on cash” calculation is key in order to make your decision.

So I am borrowing money at an interest rate of 9% (more or less). However, the property generates a cash on cash of 18%. That cash on cash number means I am able to generate enough cash flow to pay back the loan at an accelerated rate if I wish.

Risky? Yes. Can use of this make a property in California go from cash flow to negative? Yes. SO WHAT. The new property generates enough cash flow by itself to offset that negative.

Let’s also look at the ROE. We took $12k from a rental property and now it’s cash flow negative (it’s not, but let’s say it is). Let’s say I will pay back that loan in ten years at a rate of 9%. The rental property will now be cash flow negative at $152/mo. The new property’s ROE is 43%. For the cost of $1824 a year (the $152*12), I have generated a value of more than $17000 ($12k+12k*(0.43)).

So again, so what if the property is cash flow negative? I’ve been able to generate enough money to pay it back potentially in the first year. Also, let’s remember, I am only borrowing $12k. My household generates that in a month. So the risk to me is somewhat minimal.

Is this process for everyone? HELL NO. Everyone I have described this process to personally has called me crazy. =shrug= But think about it – the equity in the properties we have we can’t access unless we either sell the property or we refi the money out. This process allows me to generate money out of something that was previously doing NOTHING. That to me is a win-win.

But like I said, there are risks. I have offset that risk somewhat by various methods – doing due diligence, making sure the cash on cash calculation fits my requirements, and lastly my household generates enough income on its own so that a $12k hit means little. It hurts, but my household has $400k in liquid accounts (apart from the real estate).

I read here (and on other blogs) about how people will MEW (mortgage equity withdrawals) themselves into a new boat, or a new car. We did none of that. The money we take out of the properties, we make sure it generates a decent return.

I don’t have a fear of negative cash flow as most people on this board do because I know that in the long run, it will pay off for me. And this negative cash flow mentality has also made it unable for most people to see how to get rich using real estate.

Again, here is the math for emphasis:

$1824/year in negative cash flow => generates $17000 in value.

$1824/year in negative cash flow for rental property =>
generates $3600 in cash flow, leaving you $1776 left over to pay the loan.

Anyways, remember, math is your friend.

Also remember, because of the above, many people have called me CRAZY.

[NotCranky]

Your portfolio has cash flow positive that is what I would look at, not one property. Sure it is risky, but it isn’t like your approach lacks reasoning.

The math is very basic, applying it to your investment strategy a little complicated but it makes sense. The return on equity and “cash on cash” calculation just looks like a component of ROI to me,a substituion for takign the investmetn capital from somewhere else in your net worth. In fact it might prove to have been better just to take the down payment from your liquid assets, depending on what your returns are.Of course, you could always pay off the HELOC if rates go up.

Maybe I am seeing something wrong and you could say why using a very small portion of your liquid assets for the DP isn’t just as good?

[surveyor]

The choice of using HELOC and other equity is a way of diversification.

The $400k of liquid assets, a portion of it is emergency funds and the rest of it is 401k, Roth, IRA, and other investments making good money. So the $400k is called for. Also, there are tax disadvantages if I use the $400k for real estate.

The idea is to make all of your money work harder for you. The liquid assets are holding their own. The equity in the real properties are generating a decent return and then our household income exceeds our expenses.

Even the choice of going to Huntsville is an exercise in diversification.

I have thought of cashing in my entire 401k and using it to invest in real estate, but even that is too risky for me. It is better to have it as a way to diversify the entire investments that I have.

[NotCranky]

I see, thanks. Good moves IMO.

[RatherOpinionated]

Maybe I was onto something with the title of this post (it has severely diverted since)…

BOSTON, Dec. 20 /PRNewswire/ — House hunters are now able to rate the houses they tour online. The property-listing website Fizber.com (http://www.fizber.com/) has launched a new “Review” feature to their website which allows users to rate properties for subjective “quality”.

After touring each home, home buyers (http://www.fizber.com/home-by-owner/index.html) can rate the properties they liked and didn’t like. Property rating is done on a 1 to 5 scale with 1 being the lowest and 5 the highest rating. Ratings from all users are combined to give a combined overall rating. The number of users who have rated a property is not displayed. According to Julia Foster, Fizber’s PR Manager, in the near future users will also be able to supply comments to accompany their rating of a property. These can be used to explain the ratings given, and they are currently working on that.

Property rating is a plus for buyers trying to search for their next home while juggling work and family. But it’s also good news for sellers: If their home listing (http://www.fizber.com/1435242) has a top rating, more potential buyers would like to view it.

Does a property rating make or break a real estate sale? Probably not. But combined with the wealth of neighborhood information provided by Fizber.com, it may just be the icing on the cake for buyers tired of waiting for other FSBO sites to give them what they want.

[RatherOpinionated]

Maybe I was onto something with the title of this post (it has severely diverted since)…

BOSTON, Dec. 20 /PRNewswire/ — House hunters are now able to rate the houses they tour online. The property-listing website Fizber.com (http://www.fizber.com/) has launched a new “Review” feature to their website which allows users to rate properties for subjective “quality”.

After touring each home, home buyers (http://www.fizber.com/home-by-owner/index.html) can rate the properties they liked and didn’t like. Property rating is done on a 1 to 5 scale with 1 being the lowest and 5 the highest rating. Ratings from all users are combined to give a combined overall rating. The number of users who have rated a property is not displayed. According to Julia Foster, Fizber’s PR Manager, in the near future users will also be able to supply comments to accompany their rating of a property. These can be used to explain the ratings given, and they are currently working on that.

Property rating is a plus for buyers trying to search for their next home while juggling work and family. But it’s also good news for sellers: If their home listing (http://www.fizber.com/1435242) has a top rating, more potential buyers would like to view it.

Does a property rating make or break a real estate sale? Probably not. But combined with the wealth of neighborhood information provided by Fizber.com, it may just be the icing on the cake for buyers tired of waiting for other FSBO sites to give them what they want.

[RatherOpinionated]

Maybe I was onto something with the title of this post (it has severely diverted since)…

BOSTON, Dec. 20 /PRNewswire/ — House hunters are now able to rate the houses they tour online. The property-listing website Fizber.com (http://www.fizber.com/) has launched a new “Review” feature to their website which allows users to rate properties for subjective “quality”.

After touring each home, home buyers (http://www.fizber.com/home-by-owner/index.html) can rate the properties they liked and didn’t like. Property rating is done on a 1 to 5 scale with 1 being the lowest and 5 the highest rating. Ratings from all users are combined to give a combined overall rating. The number of users who have rated a property is not displayed. According to Julia Foster, Fizber’s PR Manager, in the near future users will also be able to supply comments to accompany their rating of a property. These can be used to explain the ratings given, and they are currently working on that.

Property rating is a plus for buyers trying to search for their next home while juggling work and family. But it’s also good news for sellers: If their home listing (http://www.fizber.com/1435242) has a top rating, more potential buyers would like to view it.

Does a property rating make or break a real estate sale? Probably not. But combined with the wealth of neighborhood information provided by Fizber.com, it may just be the icing on the cake for buyers tired of waiting for other FSBO sites to give them what they want.

[RatherOpinionated]

Maybe I was onto something with the title of this post (it has severely diverted since)…

BOSTON, Dec. 20 /PRNewswire/ — House hunters are now able to rate the houses they tour online. The property-listing website Fizber.com (http://www.fizber.com/) has launched a new “Review” feature to their website which allows users to rate properties for subjective “quality”.

After touring each home, home buyers (http://www.fizber.com/home-by-owner/index.html) can rate the properties they liked and didn’t like. Property rating is done on a 1 to 5 scale with 1 being the lowest and 5 the highest rating. Ratings from all users are combined to give a combined overall rating. The number of users who have rated a property is not displayed. According to Julia Foster, Fizber’s PR Manager, in the near future users will also be able to supply comments to accompany their rating of a property. These can be used to explain the ratings given, and they are currently working on that.

Property rating is a plus for buyers trying to search for their next home while juggling work and family. But it’s also good news for sellers: If their home listing (http://www.fizber.com/1435242) has a top rating, more potential buyers would like to view it.

Does a property rating make or break a real estate sale? Probably not. But combined with the wealth of neighborhood information provided by Fizber.com, it may just be the icing on the cake for buyers tired of waiting for other FSBO sites to give them what they want.

[RatherOpinionated]

Maybe I was onto something with the title of this post (it has severely diverted since)…

BOSTON, Dec. 20 /PRNewswire/ — House hunters are now able to rate the houses they tour online. The property-listing website Fizber.com (http://www.fizber.com/) has launched a new “Review” feature to their website which allows users to rate properties for subjective “quality”.

After touring each home, home buyers (http://www.fizber.com/home-by-owner/index.html) can rate the properties they liked and didn’t like. Property rating is done on a 1 to 5 scale with 1 being the lowest and 5 the highest rating. Ratings from all users are combined to give a combined overall rating. The number of users who have rated a property is not displayed. According to Julia Foster, Fizber’s PR Manager, in the near future users will also be able to supply comments to accompany their rating of a property. These can be used to explain the ratings given, and they are currently working on that.

Property rating is a plus for buyers trying to search for their next home while juggling work and family. But it’s also good news for sellers: If their home listing (http://www.fizber.com/1435242) has a top rating, more potential buyers would like to view it.

Does a property rating make or break a real estate sale? Probably not. But combined with the wealth of neighborhood information provided by Fizber.com, it may just be the icing on the cake for buyers tired of waiting for other FSBO sites to give them what they want.

[NotCranky]

I see, thanks. Good moves IMO.

[NotCranky]

I see, thanks. Good moves IMO.

[NotCranky]

I see, thanks. Good moves IMO.

[NotCranky]

I see, thanks. Good moves IMO.

[Jumby]

Good stuff Surveyor….this is a fine example of how to build wealth in r.e.

[Jumby]

Good stuff Surveyor….this is a fine example of how to build wealth in r.e.

[Jumby]

Good stuff Surveyor….this is a fine example of how to build wealth in r.e.

[Jumby]

Good stuff Surveyor….this is a fine example of how to build wealth in r.e.

[Jumby]

Good stuff Surveyor….this is a fine example of how to build wealth in r.e.

[surveyor]

The choice of using HELOC and other equity is a way of diversification.

The $400k of liquid assets, a portion of it is emergency funds and the rest of it is 401k, Roth, IRA, and other investments making good money. So the $400k is called for. Also, there are tax disadvantages if I use the $400k for real estate.

The idea is to make all of your money work harder for you. The liquid assets are holding their own. The equity in the real properties are generating a decent return and then our household income exceeds our expenses.

Even the choice of going to Huntsville is an exercise in diversification.

I have thought of cashing in my entire 401k and using it to invest in real estate, but even that is too risky for me. It is better to have it as a way to diversify the entire investments that I have.

[surveyor]

The choice of using HELOC and other equity is a way of diversification.

The $400k of liquid assets, a portion of it is emergency funds and the rest of it is 401k, Roth, IRA, and other investments making good money. So the $400k is called for. Also, there are tax disadvantages if I use the $400k for real estate.

The idea is to make all of your money work harder for you. The liquid assets are holding their own. The equity in the real properties are generating a decent return and then our household income exceeds our expenses.

Even the choice of going to Huntsville is an exercise in diversification.

I have thought of cashing in my entire 401k and using it to invest in real estate, but even that is too risky for me. It is better to have it as a way to diversify the entire investments that I have.

[surveyor]

The choice of using HELOC and other equity is a way of diversification.

The $400k of liquid assets, a portion of it is emergency funds and the rest of it is 401k, Roth, IRA, and other investments making good money. So the $400k is called for. Also, there are tax disadvantages if I use the $400k for real estate.

The idea is to make all of your money work harder for you. The liquid assets are holding their own. The equity in the real properties are generating a decent return and then our household income exceeds our expenses.

Even the choice of going to Huntsville is an exercise in diversification.

I have thought of cashing in my entire 401k and using it to invest in real estate, but even that is too risky for me. It is better to have it as a way to diversify the entire investments that I have.

[surveyor]

The choice of using HELOC and other equity is a way of diversification.

The $400k of liquid assets, a portion of it is emergency funds and the rest of it is 401k, Roth, IRA, and other investments making good money. So the $400k is called for. Also, there are tax disadvantages if I use the $400k for real estate.

The idea is to make all of your money work harder for you. The liquid assets are holding their own. The equity in the real properties are generating a decent return and then our household income exceeds our expenses.

Even the choice of going to Huntsville is an exercise in diversification.

I have thought of cashing in my entire 401k and using it to invest in real estate, but even that is too risky for me. It is better to have it as a way to diversify the entire investments that I have.

[NotCranky]

Your portfolio has cash flow positive that is what I would look at, not one property. Sure it is risky, but it isn’t like your approach lacks reasoning.

The math is very basic, applying it to your investment strategy a little complicated but it makes sense. The return on equity and “cash on cash” calculation just looks like a component of ROI to me,a substituion for takign the investmetn capital from somewhere else in your net worth. In fact it might prove to have been better just to take the down payment from your liquid assets, depending on what your returns are.Of course, you could always pay off the HELOC if rates go up.

Maybe I am seeing something wrong and you could say why using a very small portion of your liquid assets for the DP isn’t just as good?

[NotCranky]

Your portfolio has cash flow positive that is what I would look at, not one property. Sure it is risky, but it isn’t like your approach lacks reasoning.

The math is very basic, applying it to your investment strategy a little complicated but it makes sense. The return on equity and “cash on cash” calculation just looks like a component of ROI to me,a substituion for takign the investmetn capital from somewhere else in your net worth. In fact it might prove to have been better just to take the down payment from your liquid assets, depending on what your returns are.Of course, you could always pay off the HELOC if rates go up.

Maybe I am seeing something wrong and you could say why using a very small portion of your liquid assets for the DP isn’t just as good?

[NotCranky]

Your portfolio has cash flow positive that is what I would look at, not one property. Sure it is risky, but it isn’t like your approach lacks reasoning.

The math is very basic, applying it to your investment strategy a little complicated but it makes sense. The return on equity and “cash on cash” calculation just looks like a component of ROI to me,a substituion for takign the investmetn capital from somewhere else in your net worth. In fact it might prove to have been better just to take the down payment from your liquid assets, depending on what your returns are.Of course, you could always pay off the HELOC if rates go up.

Maybe I am seeing something wrong and you could say why using a very small portion of your liquid assets for the DP isn’t just as good?

[NotCranky]

Your portfolio has cash flow positive that is what I would look at, not one property. Sure it is risky, but it isn’t like your approach lacks reasoning.

The math is very basic, applying it to your investment strategy a little complicated but it makes sense. The return on equity and “cash on cash” calculation just looks like a component of ROI to me,a substituion for takign the investmetn capital from somewhere else in your net worth. In fact it might prove to have been better just to take the down payment from your liquid assets, depending on what your returns are.Of course, you could always pay off the HELOC if rates go up.

Maybe I am seeing something wrong and you could say why using a very small portion of your liquid assets for the DP isn’t just as good?

[surveyor]

Lots of questions! Long answers.

1) Taking equity from California

The money ($12k) in question is coming from a rental property in California. The money is from a HELOC of 8.5% (thank you for lower interest rates, hahaha, it used to be at 9.5%, but still it’s not a lot of difference). It’s not fully used.

As for the wisdom of making a property cash flow negative by equity withdrawal, it is not recommended for most conservative people, but I have taken it into account already. The number to watch is called “cash on cash”. Whenever you are borrowing money to make money, the “cash on cash” calculation is key in order to make your decision.

So I am borrowing money at an interest rate of 9% (more or less). However, the property generates a cash on cash of 18%. That cash on cash number means I am able to generate enough cash flow to pay back the loan at an accelerated rate if I wish.

Risky? Yes. Can use of this make a property in California go from cash flow to negative? Yes. SO WHAT. The new property generates enough cash flow by itself to offset that negative.

Let’s also look at the ROE. We took $12k from a rental property and now it’s cash flow negative (it’s not, but let’s say it is). Let’s say I will pay back that loan in ten years at a rate of 9%. The rental property will now be cash flow negative at $152/mo. The new property’s ROE is 43%. For the cost of $1824 a year (the $152*12), I have generated a value of more than $17000 ($12k+12k*(0.43)).

So again, so what if the property is cash flow negative? I’ve been able to generate enough money to pay it back potentially in the first year. Also, let’s remember, I am only borrowing $12k. My household generates that in a month. So the risk to me is somewhat minimal.

Is this process for everyone? HELL NO. Everyone I have described this process to personally has called me crazy. =shrug= But think about it – the equity in the properties we have we can’t access unless we either sell the property or we refi the money out. This process allows me to generate money out of something that was previously doing NOTHING. That to me is a win-win.

But like I said, there are risks. I have offset that risk somewhat by various methods – doing due diligence, making sure the cash on cash calculation fits my requirements, and lastly my household generates enough income on its own so that a $12k hit means little. It hurts, but my household has $400k in liquid accounts (apart from the real estate).

I read here (and on other blogs) about how people will MEW (mortgage equity withdrawals) themselves into a new boat, or a new car. We did none of that. The money we take out of the properties, we make sure it generates a decent return.

I don’t have a fear of negative cash flow as most people on this board do because I know that in the long run, it will pay off for me. And this negative cash flow mentality has also made it unable for most people to see how to get rich using real estate.

Again, here is the math for emphasis:

$1824/year in negative cash flow => generates $17000 in value.

$1824/year in negative cash flow for rental property =>
generates $3600 in cash flow, leaving you $1776 left over to pay the loan.

Anyways, remember, math is your friend.

Also remember, because of the above, many people have called me CRAZY.

[surveyor]

Lots of questions! Long answers.

1) Taking equity from California

The money ($12k) in question is coming from a rental property in California. The money is from a HELOC of 8.5% (thank you for lower interest rates, hahaha, it used to be at 9.5%, but still it’s not a lot of difference). It’s not fully used.

As for the wisdom of making a property cash flow negative by equity withdrawal, it is not recommended for most conservative people, but I have taken it into account already. The number to watch is called “cash on cash”. Whenever you are borrowing money to make money, the “cash on cash” calculation is key in order to make your decision.

So I am borrowing money at an interest rate of 9% (more or less). However, the property generates a cash on cash of 18%. That cash on cash number means I am able to generate enough cash flow to pay back the loan at an accelerated rate if I wish.

Risky? Yes. Can use of this make a property in California go from cash flow to negative? Yes. SO WHAT. The new property generates enough cash flow by itself to offset that negative.

Let’s also look at the ROE. We took $12k from a rental property and now it’s cash flow negative (it’s not, but let’s say it is). Let’s say I will pay back that loan in ten years at a rate of 9%. The rental property will now be cash flow negative at $152/mo. The new property’s ROE is 43%. For the cost of $1824 a year (the $152*12), I have generated a value of more than $17000 ($12k+12k*(0.43)).

So again, so what if the property is cash flow negative? I’ve been able to generate enough money to pay it back potentially in the first year. Also, let’s remember, I am only borrowing $12k. My household generates that in a month. So the risk to me is somewhat minimal.

Is this process for everyone? HELL NO. Everyone I have described this process to personally has called me crazy. =shrug= But think about it – the equity in the properties we have we can’t access unless we either sell the property or we refi the money out. This process allows me to generate money out of something that was previously doing NOTHING. That to me is a win-win.

But like I said, there are risks. I have offset that risk somewhat by various methods – doing due diligence, making sure the cash on cash calculation fits my requirements, and lastly my household generates enough income on its own so that a $12k hit means little. It hurts, but my household has $400k in liquid accounts (apart from the real estate).

I read here (and on other blogs) about how people will MEW (mortgage equity withdrawals) themselves into a new boat, or a new car. We did none of that. The money we take out of the properties, we make sure it generates a decent return.

I don’t have a fear of negative cash flow as most people on this board do because I know that in the long run, it will pay off for me. And this negative cash flow mentality has also made it unable for most people to see how to get rich using real estate.

Again, here is the math for emphasis:

$1824/year in negative cash flow => generates $17000 in value.

$1824/year in negative cash flow for rental property =>
generates $3600 in cash flow, leaving you $1776 left over to pay the loan.

Anyways, remember, math is your friend.

Also remember, because of the above, many people have called me CRAZY.

[surveyor]

Lots of questions! Long answers.

1) Taking equity from California

The money ($12k) in question is coming from a rental property in California. The money is from a HELOC of 8.5% (thank you for lower interest rates, hahaha, it used to be at 9.5%, but still it’s not a lot of difference). It’s not fully used.

As for the wisdom of making a property cash flow negative by equity withdrawal, it is not recommended for most conservative people, but I have taken it into account already. The number to watch is called “cash on cash”. Whenever you are borrowing money to make money, the “cash on cash” calculation is key in order to make your decision.

So I am borrowing money at an interest rate of 9% (more or less). However, the property generates a cash on cash of 18%. That cash on cash number means I am able to generate enough cash flow to pay back the loan at an accelerated rate if I wish.

Risky? Yes. Can use of this make a property in California go from cash flow to negative? Yes. SO WHAT. The new property generates enough cash flow by itself to offset that negative.

Let’s also look at the ROE. We took $12k from a rental property and now it’s cash flow negative (it’s not, but let’s say it is). Let’s say I will pay back that loan in ten years at a rate of 9%. The rental property will now be cash flow negative at $152/mo. The new property’s ROE is 43%. For the cost of $1824 a year (the $152*12), I have generated a value of more than $17000 ($12k+12k*(0.43)).

So again, so what if the property is cash flow negative? I’ve been able to generate enough money to pay it back potentially in the first year. Also, let’s remember, I am only borrowing $12k. My household generates that in a month. So the risk to me is somewhat minimal.

Is this process for everyone? HELL NO. Everyone I have described this process to personally has called me crazy. =shrug= But think about it – the equity in the properties we have we can’t access unless we either sell the property or we refi the money out. This process allows me to generate money out of something that was previously doing NOTHING. That to me is a win-win.

But like I said, there are risks. I have offset that risk somewhat by various methods – doing due diligence, making sure the cash on cash calculation fits my requirements, and lastly my household generates enough income on its own so that a $12k hit means little. It hurts, but my household has $400k in liquid accounts (apart from the real estate).

I read here (and on other blogs) about how people will MEW (mortgage equity withdrawals) themselves into a new boat, or a new car. We did none of that. The money we take out of the properties, we make sure it generates a decent return.

I don’t have a fear of negative cash flow as most people on this board do because I know that in the long run, it will pay off for me. And this negative cash flow mentality has also made it unable for most people to see how to get rich using real estate.

Again, here is the math for emphasis:

$1824/year in negative cash flow => generates $17000 in value.

$1824/year in negative cash flow for rental property =>
generates $3600 in cash flow, leaving you $1776 left over to pay the loan.

Anyways, remember, math is your friend.

Also remember, because of the above, many people have called me CRAZY.

[surveyor]

Lots of questions! Long answers.

1) Taking equity from California

The money ($12k) in question is coming from a rental property in California. The money is from a HELOC of 8.5% (thank you for lower interest rates, hahaha, it used to be at 9.5%, but still it’s not a lot of difference). It’s not fully used.

As for the wisdom of making a property cash flow negative by equity withdrawal, it is not recommended for most conservative people, but I have taken it into account already. The number to watch is called “cash on cash”. Whenever you are borrowing money to make money, the “cash on cash” calculation is key in order to make your decision.

So I am borrowing money at an interest rate of 9% (more or less). However, the property generates a cash on cash of 18%. That cash on cash number means I am able to generate enough cash flow to pay back the loan at an accelerated rate if I wish.

Risky? Yes. Can use of this make a property in California go from cash flow to negative? Yes. SO WHAT. The new property generates enough cash flow by itself to offset that negative.

Let’s also look at the ROE. We took $12k from a rental property and now it’s cash flow negative (it’s not, but let’s say it is). Let’s say I will pay back that loan in ten years at a rate of 9%. The rental property will now be cash flow negative at $152/mo. The new property’s ROE is 43%. For the cost of $1824 a year (the $152*12), I have generated a value of more than $17000 ($12k+12k*(0.43)).

So again, so what if the property is cash flow negative? I’ve been able to generate enough money to pay it back potentially in the first year. Also, let’s remember, I am only borrowing $12k. My household generates that in a month. So the risk to me is somewhat minimal.

Is this process for everyone? HELL NO. Everyone I have described this process to personally has called me crazy. =shrug= But think about it – the equity in the properties we have we can’t access unless we either sell the property or we refi the money out. This process allows me to generate money out of something that was previously doing NOTHING. That to me is a win-win.

But like I said, there are risks. I have offset that risk somewhat by various methods – doing due diligence, making sure the cash on cash calculation fits my requirements, and lastly my household generates enough income on its own so that a $12k hit means little. It hurts, but my household has $400k in liquid accounts (apart from the real estate).

I read here (and on other blogs) about how people will MEW (mortgage equity withdrawals) themselves into a new boat, or a new car. We did none of that. The money we take out of the properties, we make sure it generates a decent return.

I don’t have a fear of negative cash flow as most people on this board do because I know that in the long run, it will pay off for me. And this negative cash flow mentality has also made it unable for most people to see how to get rich using real estate.

Again, here is the math for emphasis:

$1824/year in negative cash flow => generates $17000 in value.

$1824/year in negative cash flow for rental property =>
generates $3600 in cash flow, leaving you $1776 left over to pay the loan.

Anyways, remember, math is your friend.

Also remember, because of the above, many people have called me CRAZY.

[surveyor]

Long answer (cont’d)

2) First year scenario……

As everyone knows here, it is difficult to make predictions over the long term. The ROE calculation of 43% is meant to be something that you examine year after year and make appropriate actions to keep your ROE that high. There are going to be some years where your ROE is low and your property isn’t generating as much money as it should. Steps should be taken to counter that. There will also be years where the appreciation of the property will be higher than the 4% I anticipate. If it happens, great. If not, oh well. Real estate is a slow moving beast so you can direct it properly. Still, the ROE calculation is meant to be a barometer of a 10 year cycle.

As for the mortgages being paid, I pay all the mortgages myself and I do all of them on auto-pay. I could have the property manager of each property do the payment of the mortgage for me, but the banks send the statements to me, and I find it helps if you get your hands into the nitty gritty.

Vacancies… The property is already fully rented so I did not account for vacancies in the first year. The rent is low, at $375 per unit and there is room to move that up to market (which has been running at around $425). I have learned that I have to aggressively rent my units out, so I have instructed my property managers that if a unit is vacated, immediately place an ad offering a rent discount on the first month. This helps generate interest right away and keep vacancies to a minimum. If vacancies happen, that’s the fact of life. However, I have minimized the vacancy risk by the aggressive discount and by the fact that the property is a 4 unit (SFRs have a vacancy disadvantage because once the tenant is out, you’re out the full rent amount, as opposed to multi-units, where if you have one vacancy, you at least have some rent income still available to come in).

3) Miilitary tenants

One of the things that attracted me to Huntsville was, like Jumby said, the fact that BRAC was closing a base in the midwest and expanding operations in Huntsville. There were other aspects to the BRAC report too, because they are moving defense contractors as well as personnel over to Huntsville. So the long term area prospects are good.

I will tell you that I am not specifically targeting military personnel as tenants (and certainly not officers). A lot of investors make the mistake of going after high value tenants (military officers, high income people), and as such buy expensive rental properties as such SFRs. Many investors will buy rental property based on the question, well if I had to live there, what would I like to live in? I avoid that line of thinking entirely because I pursue properties that have cheap rents. Cheap rents allow you to appeal to a huge population of minimum wage earners, vs. having to fight for high income tenants, which are few in number and are chased after by most everybody.

Let’s also remember the “high number” of foreclosures affecting everyone in the country. If Huntsville does go into a situation where there are a lot of foreclosures, forcing owners to rent instead of own, where will they go? WHERE THERE IS CHEAP RENT.

Also another advantage of cheap rent is that you are able to keep vacancies to a minimum.

And lastly:

4) Are the hassles worth it?

Um, let me see, I am able to make an asset which was previously doing jack to all of a sudden generate a 43% return.

I am able to pay ridiculously low taxes even though I have a household income of over $200k.

I’m sure there are others who will pick holes into my investing and will say, well you’re too risky, or you’re a sucker for buying into the real estate makes people rich crowd, or any other comments. And I don’t doubt that this is risky. However, you can minimize risk several ways (as I’ve outlined here) and you can use the factor of time to both make you money and minimize your risk.

[surveyor]

hmm after reading all that, I’m probably scaring more people away from real estate investing. Hahahahaha.

[surveyor]

hmm after reading all that, I’m probably scaring more people away from real estate investing. Hahahahaha.

[surveyor]

hmm after reading all that, I’m probably scaring more people away from real estate investing. Hahahahaha.

[surveyor]

hmm after reading all that, I’m probably scaring more people away from real estate investing. Hahahahaha.

[surveyor]

hmm after reading all that, I’m probably scaring more people away from real estate investing. Hahahahaha.

[surveyor]

Long answer (cont’d)

2) First year scenario……

As everyone knows here, it is difficult to make predictions over the long term. The ROE calculation of 43% is meant to be something that you examine year after year and make appropriate actions to keep your ROE that high. There are going to be some years where your ROE is low and your property isn’t generating as much money as it should. Steps should be taken to counter that. There will also be years where the appreciation of the property will be higher than the 4% I anticipate. If it happens, great. If not, oh well. Real estate is a slow moving beast so you can direct it properly. Still, the ROE calculation is meant to be a barometer of a 10 year cycle.

As for the mortgages being paid, I pay all the mortgages myself and I do all of them on auto-pay. I could have the property manager of each property do the payment of the mortgage for me, but the banks send the statements to me, and I find it helps if you get your hands into the nitty gritty.

Vacancies… The property is already fully rented so I did not account for vacancies in the first year. The rent is low, at $375 per unit and there is room to move that up to market (which has been running at around $425). I have learned that I have to aggressively rent my units out, so I have instructed my property managers that if a unit is vacated, immediately place an ad offering a rent discount on the first month. This helps generate interest right away and keep vacancies to a minimum. If vacancies happen, that’s the fact of life. However, I have minimized the vacancy risk by the aggressive discount and by the fact that the property is a 4 unit (SFRs have a vacancy disadvantage because once the tenant is out, you’re out the full rent amount, as opposed to multi-units, where if you have one vacancy, you at least have some rent income still available to come in).

3) Miilitary tenants

One of the things that attracted me to Huntsville was, like Jumby said, the fact that BRAC was closing a base in the midwest and expanding operations in Huntsville. There were other aspects to the BRAC report too, because they are moving defense contractors as well as personnel over to Huntsville. So the long term area prospects are good.

I will tell you that I am not specifically targeting military personnel as tenants (and certainly not officers). A lot of investors make the mistake of going after high value tenants (military officers, high income people), and as such buy expensive rental properties as such SFRs. Many investors will buy rental property based on the question, well if I had to live there, what would I like to live in? I avoid that line of thinking entirely because I pursue properties that have cheap rents. Cheap rents allow you to appeal to a huge population of minimum wage earners, vs. having to fight for high income tenants, which are few in number and are chased after by most everybody.

Let’s also remember the “high number” of foreclosures affecting everyone in the country. If Huntsville does go into a situation where there are a lot of foreclosures, forcing owners to rent instead of own, where will they go? WHERE THERE IS CHEAP RENT.

Also another advantage of cheap rent is that you are able to keep vacancies to a minimum.

And lastly:

4) Are the hassles worth it?

Um, let me see, I am able to make an asset which was previously doing jack to all of a sudden generate a 43% return.

I am able to pay ridiculously low taxes even though I have a household income of over $200k.

I’m sure there are others who will pick holes into my investing and will say, well you’re too risky, or you’re a sucker for buying into the real estate makes people rich crowd, or any other comments. And I don’t doubt that this is risky. However, you can minimize risk several ways (as I’ve outlined here) and you can use the factor of time to both make you money and minimize your risk.

[surveyor]

Long answer (cont’d)

2) First year scenario……

As everyone knows here, it is difficult to make predictions over the long term. The ROE calculation of 43% is meant to be something that you examine year after year and make appropriate actions to keep your ROE that high. There are going to be some years where your ROE is low and your property isn’t generating as much money as it should. Steps should be taken to counter that. There will also be years where the appreciation of the property will be higher than the 4% I anticipate. If it happens, great. If not, oh well. Real estate is a slow moving beast so you can direct it properly. Still, the ROE calculation is meant to be a barometer of a 10 year cycle.

As for the mortgages being paid, I pay all the mortgages myself and I do all of them on auto-pay. I could have the property manager of each property do the payment of the mortgage for me, but the banks send the statements to me, and I find it helps if you get your hands into the nitty gritty.

Vacancies… The property is already fully rented so I did not account for vacancies in the first year. The rent is low, at $375 per unit and there is room to move that up to market (which has been running at around $425). I have learned that I have to aggressively rent my units out, so I have instructed my property managers that if a unit is vacated, immediately place an ad offering a rent discount on the first month. This helps generate interest right away and keep vacancies to a minimum. If vacancies happen, that’s the fact of life. However, I have minimized the vacancy risk by the aggressive discount and by the fact that the property is a 4 unit (SFRs have a vacancy disadvantage because once the tenant is out, you’re out the full rent amount, as opposed to multi-units, where if you have one vacancy, you at least have some rent income still available to come in).

3) Miilitary tenants

One of the things that attracted me to Huntsville was, like Jumby said, the fact that BRAC was closing a base in the midwest and expanding operations in Huntsville. There were other aspects to the BRAC report too, because they are moving defense contractors as well as personnel over to Huntsville. So the long term area prospects are good.

I will tell you that I am not specifically targeting military personnel as tenants (and certainly not officers). A lot of investors make the mistake of going after high value tenants (military officers, high income people), and as such buy expensive rental properties as such SFRs. Many investors will buy rental property based on the question, well if I had to live there, what would I like to live in? I avoid that line of thinking entirely because I pursue properties that have cheap rents. Cheap rents allow you to appeal to a huge population of minimum wage earners, vs. having to fight for high income tenants, which are few in number and are chased after by most everybody.

Let’s also remember the “high number” of foreclosures affecting everyone in the country. If Huntsville does go into a situation where there are a lot of foreclosures, forcing owners to rent instead of own, where will they go? WHERE THERE IS CHEAP RENT.

Also another advantage of cheap rent is that you are able to keep vacancies to a minimum.

And lastly:

4) Are the hassles worth it?

Um, let me see, I am able to make an asset which was previously doing jack to all of a sudden generate a 43% return.

I am able to pay ridiculously low taxes even though I have a household income of over $200k.

I’m sure there are others who will pick holes into my investing and will say, well you’re too risky, or you’re a sucker for buying into the real estate makes people rich crowd, or any other comments. And I don’t doubt that this is risky. However, you can minimize risk several ways (as I’ve outlined here) and you can use the factor of time to both make you money and minimize your risk.

[surveyor]

Long answer (cont’d)

2) First year scenario……

As everyone knows here, it is difficult to make predictions over the long term. The ROE calculation of 43% is meant to be something that you examine year after year and make appropriate actions to keep your ROE that high. There are going to be some years where your ROE is low and your property isn’t generating as much money as it should. Steps should be taken to counter that. There will also be years where the appreciation of the property will be higher than the 4% I anticipate. If it happens, great. If not, oh well. Real estate is a slow moving beast so you can direct it properly. Still, the ROE calculation is meant to be a barometer of a 10 year cycle.

As for the mortgages being paid, I pay all the mortgages myself and I do all of them on auto-pay. I could have the property manager of each property do the payment of the mortgage for me, but the banks send the statements to me, and I find it helps if you get your hands into the nitty gritty.

Vacancies… The property is already fully rented so I did not account for vacancies in the first year. The rent is low, at $375 per unit and there is room to move that up to market (which has been running at around $425). I have learned that I have to aggressively rent my units out, so I have instructed my property managers that if a unit is vacated, immediately place an ad offering a rent discount on the first month. This helps generate interest right away and keep vacancies to a minimum. If vacancies happen, that’s the fact of life. However, I have minimized the vacancy risk by the aggressive discount and by the fact that the property is a 4 unit (SFRs have a vacancy disadvantage because once the tenant is out, you’re out the full rent amount, as opposed to multi-units, where if you have one vacancy, you at least have some rent income still available to come in).

3) Miilitary tenants

One of the things that attracted me to Huntsville was, like Jumby said, the fact that BRAC was closing a base in the midwest and expanding operations in Huntsville. There were other aspects to the BRAC report too, because they are moving defense contractors as well as personnel over to Huntsville. So the long term area prospects are good.

I will tell you that I am not specifically targeting military personnel as tenants (and certainly not officers). A lot of investors make the mistake of going after high value tenants (military officers, high income people), and as such buy expensive rental properties as such SFRs. Many investors will buy rental property based on the question, well if I had to live there, what would I like to live in? I avoid that line of thinking entirely because I pursue properties that have cheap rents. Cheap rents allow you to appeal to a huge population of minimum wage earners, vs. having to fight for high income tenants, which are few in number and are chased after by most everybody.

Let’s also remember the “high number” of foreclosures affecting everyone in the country. If Huntsville does go into a situation where there are a lot of foreclosures, forcing owners to rent instead of own, where will they go? WHERE THERE IS CHEAP RENT.

Also another advantage of cheap rent is that you are able to keep vacancies to a minimum.

And lastly:

4) Are the hassles worth it?

Um, let me see, I am able to make an asset which was previously doing jack to all of a sudden generate a 43% return.

I am able to pay ridiculously low taxes even though I have a household income of over $200k.

I’m sure there are others who will pick holes into my investing and will say, well you’re too risky, or you’re a sucker for buying into the real estate makes people rich crowd, or any other comments. And I don’t doubt that this is risky. However, you can minimize risk several ways (as I’ve outlined here) and you can use the factor of time to both make you money and minimize your risk.

[surveyor]

Long answer (cont’d)

2) First year scenario……

As everyone knows here, it is difficult to make predictions over the long term. The ROE calculation of 43% is meant to be something that you examine year after year and make appropriate actions to keep your ROE that high. There are going to be some years where your ROE is low and your property isn’t generating as much money as it should. Steps should be taken to counter that. There will also be years where the appreciation of the property will be higher than the 4% I anticipate. If it happens, great. If not, oh well. Real estate is a slow moving beast so you can direct it properly. Still, the ROE calculation is meant to be a barometer of a 10 year cycle.

As for the mortgages being paid, I pay all the mortgages myself and I do all of them on auto-pay. I could have the property manager of each property do the payment of the mortgage for me, but the banks send the statements to me, and I find it helps if you get your hands into the nitty gritty.

Vacancies… The property is already fully rented so I did not account for vacancies in the first year. The rent is low, at $375 per unit and there is room to move that up to market (which has been running at around $425). I have learned that I have to aggressively rent my units out, so I have instructed my property managers that if a unit is vacated, immediately place an ad offering a rent discount on the first month. This helps generate interest right away and keep vacancies to a minimum. If vacancies happen, that’s the fact of life. However, I have minimized the vacancy risk by the aggressive discount and by the fact that the property is a 4 unit (SFRs have a vacancy disadvantage because once the tenant is out, you’re out the full rent amount, as opposed to multi-units, where if you have one vacancy, you at least have some rent income still available to come in).

3) Miilitary tenants

One of the things that attracted me to Huntsville was, like Jumby said, the fact that BRAC was closing a base in the midwest and expanding operations in Huntsville. There were other aspects to the BRAC report too, because they are moving defense contractors as well as personnel over to Huntsville. So the long term area prospects are good.

I will tell you that I am not specifically targeting military personnel as tenants (and certainly not officers). A lot of investors make the mistake of going after high value tenants (military officers, high income people), and as such buy expensive rental properties as such SFRs. Many investors will buy rental property based on the question, well if I had to live there, what would I like to live in? I avoid that line of thinking entirely because I pursue properties that have cheap rents. Cheap rents allow you to appeal to a huge population of minimum wage earners, vs. having to fight for high income tenants, which are few in number and are chased after by most everybody.

Let’s also remember the “high number” of foreclosures affecting everyone in the country. If Huntsville does go into a situation where there are a lot of foreclosures, forcing owners to rent instead of own, where will they go? WHERE THERE IS CHEAP RENT.

Also another advantage of cheap rent is that you are able to keep vacancies to a minimum.

And lastly:

4) Are the hassles worth it?

Um, let me see, I am able to make an asset which was previously doing jack to all of a sudden generate a 43% return.

I am able to pay ridiculously low taxes even though I have a household income of over $200k.

I’m sure there are others who will pick holes into my investing and will say, well you’re too risky, or you’re a sucker for buying into the real estate makes people rich crowd, or any other comments. And I don’t doubt that this is risky. However, you can minimize risk several ways (as I’ve outlined here) and you can use the factor of time to both make you money and minimize your risk.

[NotCranky]

Thanks for posting surveyor.
The properties look nice. It does look like the roof needs attention. I have never been one to wait. It is not worth having it blow off in a big wind and rain storm. Maybe that is not the issue but it does look weak even in the pictures.

I had a few questions:
You said something about the target of equity withdrawals running a surplus. What did you mean. It sounds like you are saying that you took the equity from other rental property that still cash flows after increased encumbrances, or a personal residence that would if you had to put it on the market?

Bugs raised a concern about taking equity from California properties for seed money. I sort of concur. A good rule of thumb is to avoid withdrawals that would put cash flow on the California properties in the red. I am sure you have thought about this, just wanted to put in my .02 on that point.
Are you borrowing fixed or adjustable ? HELOC money?

I know you are, presenting for the board, more or less, a first year scenario. I think it is also important that you have put the probability of inflation(sooner or later) against your debt and the fact that your mortgages are being paid by a third party on your side . Have you crunched out return scenarios using some of those variables over longer periods of time?Cash flow is necessary bu tit is the long term that makes your “hassles” worth it IMO.

On the topic of the quality of enlisted personnel as tenants. First of all I think your units, as nice as they are, are not going to attract officers in droves. Maybe I am wrong. I also think there are more good enlisted people than bad, having been one myself for 6 years I think I am qualified to say that. Renting to military has the huge advantage of you or your property managers ability to appeal to the tenants chain of command if the person is messing up. I had a situation where a guy was subletting up and playing games with money. I told him I would be contacting his captain. Never before has a wallet opened up so fast and a guy turned from a big ass to kiss ass. On the other hand populations on certain types of bases rise and fall dramatically, even the civilian population. I would be concerned about that. I imagine you checked for long term base plans?

I did not see you account for vacancies. Maybe I missed it?

[NotCranky]

Thanks for posting surveyor.
The properties look nice. It does look like the roof needs attention. I have never been one to wait. It is not worth having it blow off in a big wind and rain storm. Maybe that is not the issue but it does look weak even in the pictures.

I had a few questions:
You said something about the target of equity withdrawals running a surplus. What did you mean. It sounds like you are saying that you took the equity from other rental property that still cash flows after increased encumbrances, or a personal residence that would if you had to put it on the market?

Bugs raised a concern about taking equity from California properties for seed money. I sort of concur. A good rule of thumb is to avoid withdrawals that would put cash flow on the California properties in the red. I am sure you have thought about this, just wanted to put in my .02 on that point.
Are you borrowing fixed or adjustable ? HELOC money?

I know you are, presenting for the board, more or less, a first year scenario. I think it is also important that you have put the probability of inflation(sooner or later) against your debt and the fact that your mortgages are being paid by a third party on your side . Have you crunched out return scenarios using some of those variables over longer periods of time?Cash flow is necessary bu tit is the long term that makes your “hassles” worth it IMO.

On the topic of the quality of enlisted personnel as tenants. First of all I think your units, as nice as they are, are not going to attract officers in droves. Maybe I am wrong. I also think there are more good enlisted people than bad, having been one myself for 6 years I think I am qualified to say that. Renting to military has the huge advantage of you or your property managers ability to appeal to the tenants chain of command if the person is messing up. I had a situation where a guy was subletting up and playing games with money. I told him I would be contacting his captain. Never before has a wallet opened up so fast and a guy turned from a big ass to kiss ass. On the other hand populations on certain types of bases rise and fall dramatically, even the civilian population. I would be concerned about that. I imagine you checked for long term base plans?

I did not see you account for vacancies. Maybe I missed it?

[NotCranky]

Thanks for posting surveyor.
The properties look nice. It does look like the roof needs attention. I have never been one to wait. It is not worth having it blow off in a big wind and rain storm. Maybe that is not the issue but it does look weak even in the pictures.

I had a few questions:
You said something about the target of equity withdrawals running a surplus. What did you mean. It sounds like you are saying that you took the equity from other rental property that still cash flows after increased encumbrances, or a personal residence that would if you had to put it on the market?

Bugs raised a concern about taking equity from California properties for seed money. I sort of concur. A good rule of thumb is to avoid withdrawals that would put cash flow on the California properties in the red. I am sure you have thought about this, just wanted to put in my .02 on that point.
Are you borrowing fixed or adjustable ? HELOC money?

I know you are, presenting for the board, more or less, a first year scenario. I think it is also important that you have put the probability of inflation(sooner or later) against your debt and the fact that your mortgages are being paid by a third party on your side . Have you crunched out return scenarios using some of those variables over longer periods of time?Cash flow is necessary bu tit is the long term that makes your “hassles” worth it IMO.

On the topic of the quality of enlisted personnel as tenants. First of all I think your units, as nice as they are, are not going to attract officers in droves. Maybe I am wrong. I also think there are more good enlisted people than bad, having been one myself for 6 years I think I am qualified to say that. Renting to military has the huge advantage of you or your property managers ability to appeal to the tenants chain of command if the person is messing up. I had a situation where a guy was subletting up and playing games with money. I told him I would be contacting his captain. Never before has a wallet opened up so fast and a guy turned from a big ass to kiss ass. On the other hand populations on certain types of bases rise and fall dramatically, even the civilian population. I would be concerned about that. I imagine you checked for long term base plans?

I did not see you account for vacancies. Maybe I missed it?

[NotCranky]

Thanks for posting surveyor.
The properties look nice. It does look like the roof needs attention. I have never been one to wait. It is not worth having it blow off in a big wind and rain storm. Maybe that is not the issue but it does look weak even in the pictures.

I had a few questions:
You said something about the target of equity withdrawals running a surplus. What did you mean. It sounds like you are saying that you took the equity from other rental property that still cash flows after increased encumbrances, or a personal residence that would if you had to put it on the market?

Bugs raised a concern about taking equity from California properties for seed money. I sort of concur. A good rule of thumb is to avoid withdrawals that would put cash flow on the California properties in the red. I am sure you have thought about this, just wanted to put in my .02 on that point.
Are you borrowing fixed or adjustable ? HELOC money?

I know you are, presenting for the board, more or less, a first year scenario. I think it is also important that you have put the probability of inflation(sooner or later) against your debt and the fact that your mortgages are being paid by a third party on your side . Have you crunched out return scenarios using some of those variables over longer periods of time?Cash flow is necessary bu tit is the long term that makes your “hassles” worth it IMO.

On the topic of the quality of enlisted personnel as tenants. First of all I think your units, as nice as they are, are not going to attract officers in droves. Maybe I am wrong. I also think there are more good enlisted people than bad, having been one myself for 6 years I think I am qualified to say that. Renting to military has the huge advantage of you or your property managers ability to appeal to the tenants chain of command if the person is messing up. I had a situation where a guy was subletting up and playing games with money. I told him I would be contacting his captain. Never before has a wallet opened up so fast and a guy turned from a big ass to kiss ass. On the other hand populations on certain types of bases rise and fall dramatically, even the civilian population. I would be concerned about that. I imagine you checked for long term base plans?

I did not see you account for vacancies. Maybe I missed it?

[Jumby]

“Tax savings/benefits, is much more difficult to quantify and so therefore I leave a simplified calculation so that people can see how it is done.”

Not to beat a dead horse, but nothing I said conflicts with that.

I was simply saying it would make more sense to keep the cash flow as gross at the beginning and then factor in your tax savings in the alloted spot.

The interest deduction, depreciation, etc apply to everybody. The only difference is the tax bracket you are in and how much passive losses you are allowed.

But I’m probably beating this to death, I get nitpicky since I do this on a daily basis.

[Jumby]

“Tax savings/benefits, is much more difficult to quantify and so therefore I leave a simplified calculation so that people can see how it is done.”

Not to beat a dead horse, but nothing I said conflicts with that.

I was simply saying it would make more sense to keep the cash flow as gross at the beginning and then factor in your tax savings in the alloted spot.

The interest deduction, depreciation, etc apply to everybody. The only difference is the tax bracket you are in and how much passive losses you are allowed.

But I’m probably beating this to death, I get nitpicky since I do this on a daily basis.

[Jumby]

“Tax savings/benefits, is much more difficult to quantify and so therefore I leave a simplified calculation so that people can see how it is done.”

Not to beat a dead horse, but nothing I said conflicts with that.

I was simply saying it would make more sense to keep the cash flow as gross at the beginning and then factor in your tax savings in the alloted spot.

The interest deduction, depreciation, etc apply to everybody. The only difference is the tax bracket you are in and how much passive losses you are allowed.

But I’m probably beating this to death, I get nitpicky since I do this on a daily basis.

[Jumby]

“Tax savings/benefits, is much more difficult to quantify and so therefore I leave a simplified calculation so that people can see how it is done.”

Not to beat a dead horse, but nothing I said conflicts with that.

I was simply saying it would make more sense to keep the cash flow as gross at the beginning and then factor in your tax savings in the alloted spot.

The interest deduction, depreciation, etc apply to everybody. The only difference is the tax bracket you are in and how much passive losses you are allowed.

But I’m probably beating this to death, I get nitpicky since I do this on a daily basis.

[surveyor]

The ROE calculation was created to bring together the profitable aspects of real estate but usually were not supposed to be calculated together. At its heart is a simple return on investment equation. However, pick at it enough and it gets deep. Still, it is a useful calculation to judge how well properties perform over several different areas, locations, and sizes.

Like I said, cash flow is easy and most everyone knows how to calculate that.

Tax savings/benefits, is much more difficult to quantify and so therefore I leave a simplified calculation so that people can see how it is done.

[surveyor]

The ROE calculation was created to bring together the profitable aspects of real estate but usually were not supposed to be calculated together. At its heart is a simple return on investment equation. However, pick at it enough and it gets deep. Still, it is a useful calculation to judge how well properties perform over several different areas, locations, and sizes.

Like I said, cash flow is easy and most everyone knows how to calculate that.

Tax savings/benefits, is much more difficult to quantify and so therefore I leave a simplified calculation so that people can see how it is done.

[surveyor]

The ROE calculation was created to bring together the profitable aspects of real estate but usually were not supposed to be calculated together. At its heart is a simple return on investment equation. However, pick at it enough and it gets deep. Still, it is a useful calculation to judge how well properties perform over several different areas, locations, and sizes.

Like I said, cash flow is easy and most everyone knows how to calculate that.

Tax savings/benefits, is much more difficult to quantify and so therefore I leave a simplified calculation so that people can see how it is done.

[surveyor]

The ROE calculation was created to bring together the profitable aspects of real estate but usually were not supposed to be calculated together. At its heart is a simple return on investment equation. However, pick at it enough and it gets deep. Still, it is a useful calculation to judge how well properties perform over several different areas, locations, and sizes.

Like I said, cash flow is easy and most everyone knows how to calculate that.

Tax savings/benefits, is much more difficult to quantify and so therefore I leave a simplified calculation so that people can see how it is done.

[Jumby]

Technically speaking ROE = Cash Flow After Taxes / Initial Cash Investment.

Your CF was calculated WITHOUT factoring in depreciation (you saved that for later in the computation). That is why I assumed you didn’t take the mortgage interest into account.

Would it not make more sense to leave your CF as gross and then factor in all the deductions into the Tax Savings part later on in the computation?

Probably doesn’t matter…just saying…anyway, nice pickup.

[Jumby]

Technically speaking ROE = Cash Flow After Taxes / Initial Cash Investment.

Your CF was calculated WITHOUT factoring in depreciation (you saved that for later in the computation). That is why I assumed you didn’t take the mortgage interest into account.

Would it not make more sense to leave your CF as gross and then factor in all the deductions into the Tax Savings part later on in the computation?

Probably doesn’t matter…just saying…anyway, nice pickup.

[Jumby]

Technically speaking ROE = Cash Flow After Taxes / Initial Cash Investment.

Your CF was calculated WITHOUT factoring in depreciation (you saved that for later in the computation). That is why I assumed you didn’t take the mortgage interest into account.

Would it not make more sense to leave your CF as gross and then factor in all the deductions into the Tax Savings part later on in the computation?

Probably doesn’t matter…just saying…anyway, nice pickup.

[Jumby]

Technically speaking ROE = Cash Flow After Taxes / Initial Cash Investment.

Your CF was calculated WITHOUT factoring in depreciation (you saved that for later in the computation). That is why I assumed you didn’t take the mortgage interest into account.

Would it not make more sense to leave your CF as gross and then factor in all the deductions into the Tax Savings part later on in the computation?

Probably doesn’t matter…just saying…anyway, nice pickup.

[surveyor]

Haha mice…

Yup, sorry, it is “debt service” or “mortgage payment” not mortgage interest…

[surveyor]

Haha mice…

Yup, sorry, it is “debt service” or “mortgage payment” not mortgage interest…

[surveyor]

Haha mice…

Yup, sorry, it is “debt service” or “mortgage payment” not mortgage interest…

[surveyor]

Haha mice…

Yup, sorry, it is “debt service” or “mortgage payment” not mortgage interest…

[Jumby]

“CF = gross rents – mortgage interest – maintenance – property management fee – other expenses.”

Why would you subtract mortgage interest to figure cash flow?

Wouldn’t it be gross rents – total debt service – operating expenses?

[Jumby]

“CF = gross rents – mortgage interest – maintenance – property management fee – other expenses.”

Why would you subtract mortgage interest to figure cash flow?

Wouldn’t it be gross rents – total debt service – operating expenses?

[Jumby]

“CF = gross rents – mortgage interest – maintenance – property management fee – other expenses.”

Why would you subtract mortgage interest to figure cash flow?

Wouldn’t it be gross rents – total debt service – operating expenses?

[Jumby]

“CF = gross rents – mortgage interest – maintenance – property management fee – other expenses.”

Why would you subtract mortgage interest to figure cash flow?

Wouldn’t it be gross rents – total debt service – operating expenses?

[surveyor]

In my computations, cash flow is as follows:

CF = gross rents – mortgage interest – maintenance – property management fee – other expenses.

Tax Savings is as follows:

TX = (Depreciation allowance – Cash Flow – Loan Reduction)*Tax Rate

[surveyor]

In my computations, cash flow is as follows:

CF = gross rents – mortgage interest – maintenance – property management fee – other expenses.

Tax Savings is as follows:

TX = (Depreciation allowance – Cash Flow – Loan Reduction)*Tax Rate

[surveyor]

In my computations, cash flow is as follows:

CF = gross rents – mortgage interest – maintenance – property management fee – other expenses.

Tax Savings is as follows:

TX = (Depreciation allowance – Cash Flow – Loan Reduction)*Tax Rate

[surveyor]

In my computations, cash flow is as follows:

CF = gross rents – mortgage interest – maintenance – property management fee – other expenses.

Tax Savings is as follows:

TX = (Depreciation allowance – Cash Flow – Loan Reduction)*Tax Rate

[Jumby]

So it wasn’t gross cash flow, it was after tax cash flow when you figured the equation.

I guess I was mislead by “Tax Savings”. It would seem Cash Flow would be gross in this equation since there is a spot for Tax Savings.

[Jumby]

So it wasn’t gross cash flow, it was after tax cash flow when you figured the equation.

I guess I was mislead by “Tax Savings”. It would seem Cash Flow would be gross in this equation since there is a spot for Tax Savings.

[Jumby]

So it wasn’t gross cash flow, it was after tax cash flow when you figured the equation.

I guess I was mislead by “Tax Savings”. It would seem Cash Flow would be gross in this equation since there is a spot for Tax Savings.

[Jumby]

So it wasn’t gross cash flow, it was after tax cash flow when you figured the equation.

I guess I was mislead by “Tax Savings”. It would seem Cash Flow would be gross in this equation since there is a spot for Tax Savings.

[surveyor]

[img_assist|nid=5882|title=Huntsville Property|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=466|height=352]

No, FSD is right, I thought you were referring to another interest deduction, not mortgage interest deduction. The mortgage interest deduction is taken away from the cash flow.

Some pictures…

 

 

[surveyor]

[img_assist|nid=5882|title=Huntsville Property|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=466|height=352]

No, FSD is right, I thought you were referring to another interest deduction, not mortgage interest deduction. The mortgage interest deduction is taken away from the cash flow.

Some pictures…

 

 

[surveyor]

[img_assist|nid=5882|title=Huntsville Property|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=466|height=352]

No, FSD is right, I thought you were referring to another interest deduction, not mortgage interest deduction. The mortgage interest deduction is taken away from the cash flow.

Some pictures…

 

 

[surveyor]

[img_assist|nid=5882|title=Huntsville Property|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=466|height=352]

No, FSD is right, I thought you were referring to another interest deduction, not mortgage interest deduction. The mortgage interest deduction is taken away from the cash flow.

Some pictures…

 

 

[Jumby]

I was referring to data he posted in a different thread. He posted his numbers for Return on Equity (ROE).

Return on Equity = (the way he calculated it) Cash Flow + Appreciation + Loan Reduction + Tax Savings divided by down payment.

*************
What I originally said (and you first commented on) is he didn’t factor in the interest deduction when figuring his tax savings. He confirmed that by saying he purposely overcompensated by adding in too much depreciation (he didn’t subtract the land from the basis).

Make sense now? I got a feeling we are saying the same thing.

[Jumby]

I was referring to data he posted in a different thread. He posted his numbers for Return on Equity (ROE).

Return on Equity = (the way he calculated it) Cash Flow + Appreciation + Loan Reduction + Tax Savings divided by down payment.

*************
What I originally said (and you first commented on) is he didn’t factor in the interest deduction when figuring his tax savings. He confirmed that by saying he purposely overcompensated by adding in too much depreciation (he didn’t subtract the land from the basis).

Make sense now? I got a feeling we are saying the same thing.

[Jumby]

I was referring to data he posted in a different thread. He posted his numbers for Return on Equity (ROE).

Return on Equity = (the way he calculated it) Cash Flow + Appreciation + Loan Reduction + Tax Savings divided by down payment.

*************
What I originally said (and you first commented on) is he didn’t factor in the interest deduction when figuring his tax savings. He confirmed that by saying he purposely overcompensated by adding in too much depreciation (he didn’t subtract the land from the basis).

Make sense now? I got a feeling we are saying the same thing.

[Jumby]

I was referring to data he posted in a different thread. He posted his numbers for Return on Equity (ROE).

Return on Equity = (the way he calculated it) Cash Flow + Appreciation + Loan Reduction + Tax Savings divided by down payment.

*************
What I originally said (and you first commented on) is he didn’t factor in the interest deduction when figuring his tax savings. He confirmed that by saying he purposely overcompensated by adding in too much depreciation (he didn’t subtract the land from the basis).

Make sense now? I got a feeling we are saying the same thing.

[(former)FormerSanDiegan]

You CAN deduct interest for tax purposes on investment property.

As I stated above the mortgage interest is deducted from the gross rent received. (As are the other expenses mentioned). surveyor accounted for these in his calculation.

There is no additional “tax savings” for which to account by taking a mortgage interest deduction. He already accounted for that by subtracting it as an expense from gross rents.

[(former)FormerSanDiegan]

You CAN deduct interest for tax purposes on investment property.

As I stated above the mortgage interest is deducted from the gross rent received. (As are the other expenses mentioned). surveyor accounted for these in his calculation.

There is no additional “tax savings” for which to account by taking a mortgage interest deduction. He already accounted for that by subtracting it as an expense from gross rents.

[(former)FormerSanDiegan]

You CAN deduct interest for tax purposes on investment property.

As I stated above the mortgage interest is deducted from the gross rent received. (As are the other expenses mentioned). surveyor accounted for these in his calculation.

There is no additional “tax savings” for which to account by taking a mortgage interest deduction. He already accounted for that by subtracting it as an expense from gross rents.

[(former)FormerSanDiegan]

You CAN deduct interest for tax purposes on investment property.

As I stated above the mortgage interest is deducted from the gross rent received. (As are the other expenses mentioned). surveyor accounted for these in his calculation.

There is no additional “tax savings” for which to account by taking a mortgage interest deduction. He already accounted for that by subtracting it as an expense from gross rents.

[Jumby]

You CAN deduct interest for tax purposes on investment property.

[Jumby]

You CAN deduct interest for tax purposes on investment property.

[Jumby]

You CAN deduct interest for tax purposes on investment property.

[Jumby]

You CAN deduct interest for tax purposes on investment property.

[(former)FormerSanDiegan]

Surv, let me know if I’m wrong, but it didn’t seem that you factored in the interest deduction in your tax savings (in that equation). Seemed like you only factored in straight line depreciation.

????

The mortgage interest is simply an expense (as are property taxes, insurance, depreciation, maintenance, property management, advertising costs etc). These are deducted from the gross rent received, you only pay taxes on the amounts that exceed real (most of them) and phantom (depreciation) costs.

The accounting in the other link took into account mortgage expenses by subtracting them from gross rents. There is no other interest deduction to factor in.

[(former)FormerSanDiegan]

Surv, let me know if I’m wrong, but it didn’t seem that you factored in the interest deduction in your tax savings (in that equation). Seemed like you only factored in straight line depreciation.

????

The mortgage interest is simply an expense (as are property taxes, insurance, depreciation, maintenance, property management, advertising costs etc). These are deducted from the gross rent received, you only pay taxes on the amounts that exceed real (most of them) and phantom (depreciation) costs.

The accounting in the other link took into account mortgage expenses by subtracting them from gross rents. There is no other interest deduction to factor in.

[(former)FormerSanDiegan]

Surv, let me know if I’m wrong, but it didn’t seem that you factored in the interest deduction in your tax savings (in that equation). Seemed like you only factored in straight line depreciation.

????

The mortgage interest is simply an expense (as are property taxes, insurance, depreciation, maintenance, property management, advertising costs etc). These are deducted from the gross rent received, you only pay taxes on the amounts that exceed real (most of them) and phantom (depreciation) costs.

The accounting in the other link took into account mortgage expenses by subtracting them from gross rents. There is no other interest deduction to factor in.

[(former)FormerSanDiegan]

Surv, let me know if I’m wrong, but it didn’t seem that you factored in the interest deduction in your tax savings (in that equation). Seemed like you only factored in straight line depreciation.

????

The mortgage interest is simply an expense (as are property taxes, insurance, depreciation, maintenance, property management, advertising costs etc). These are deducted from the gross rent received, you only pay taxes on the amounts that exceed real (most of them) and phantom (depreciation) costs.

The accounting in the other link took into account mortgage expenses by subtracting them from gross rents. There is no other interest deduction to factor in.

[Jumby]

I hear ya Josh, I just don’t think Diego will ever get back to that point…

Surv, let me know if I’m wrong, but it didn’t seem that you factored in the interest deduction in your tax savings (in that equation). Seemed like you only factored in straight line depreciation.

[Jumby]

I hear ya Josh, I just don’t think Diego will ever get back to that point…

Surv, let me know if I’m wrong, but it didn’t seem that you factored in the interest deduction in your tax savings (in that equation). Seemed like you only factored in straight line depreciation.

[Jumby]

I hear ya Josh, I just don’t think Diego will ever get back to that point…

Surv, let me know if I’m wrong, but it didn’t seem that you factored in the interest deduction in your tax savings (in that equation). Seemed like you only factored in straight line depreciation.

[Jumby]

I hear ya Josh, I just don’t think Diego will ever get back to that point…

Surv, let me know if I’m wrong, but it didn’t seem that you factored in the interest deduction in your tax savings (in that equation). Seemed like you only factored in straight line depreciation.

[barnaby33]

“8xGRM”….you are kidding right? Hardly, there are plenty of places where you can buy things in a decent area for this, especially once house prices deflate to a more realistic level. It all depends on your view of history. If you see as I do that we have lived our entire lives in an inflationary bubble, then 8xGRM is an artifact from a bygone era. If you see deflation in our future, even that might be a bit expensive.

At this point houses are merely highly leveraged gambling devices. If inflation keeps up and you keep your job, you win. If deflation takes hold and you bought in the last 5 years, you’re screwed.

Either way overall housing returns to the same formulas time and again. Maybe Sd won’t return to those types of numbers, I could be totally wrong there, but I certainly don’t think its crazy.

Josh

[barnaby33]

“8xGRM”….you are kidding right? Hardly, there are plenty of places where you can buy things in a decent area for this, especially once house prices deflate to a more realistic level. It all depends on your view of history. If you see as I do that we have lived our entire lives in an inflationary bubble, then 8xGRM is an artifact from a bygone era. If you see deflation in our future, even that might be a bit expensive.

At this point houses are merely highly leveraged gambling devices. If inflation keeps up and you keep your job, you win. If deflation takes hold and you bought in the last 5 years, you’re screwed.

Either way overall housing returns to the same formulas time and again. Maybe Sd won’t return to those types of numbers, I could be totally wrong there, but I certainly don’t think its crazy.

Josh

[barnaby33]

“8xGRM”….you are kidding right? Hardly, there are plenty of places where you can buy things in a decent area for this, especially once house prices deflate to a more realistic level. It all depends on your view of history. If you see as I do that we have lived our entire lives in an inflationary bubble, then 8xGRM is an artifact from a bygone era. If you see deflation in our future, even that might be a bit expensive.

At this point houses are merely highly leveraged gambling devices. If inflation keeps up and you keep your job, you win. If deflation takes hold and you bought in the last 5 years, you’re screwed.

Either way overall housing returns to the same formulas time and again. Maybe Sd won’t return to those types of numbers, I could be totally wrong there, but I certainly don’t think its crazy.

Josh

[barnaby33]

“8xGRM”….you are kidding right? Hardly, there are plenty of places where you can buy things in a decent area for this, especially once house prices deflate to a more realistic level. It all depends on your view of history. If you see as I do that we have lived our entire lives in an inflationary bubble, then 8xGRM is an artifact from a bygone era. If you see deflation in our future, even that might be a bit expensive.

At this point houses are merely highly leveraged gambling devices. If inflation keeps up and you keep your job, you win. If deflation takes hold and you bought in the last 5 years, you’re screwed.

Either way overall housing returns to the same formulas time and again. Maybe Sd won’t return to those types of numbers, I could be totally wrong there, but I certainly don’t think its crazy.

Josh

[Jumby]

“8xGRM”….you are kidding right? That is very hard to find anywhere in the US, unless it’s a piece of crap or in a bad hood. I’m just as bearish as anybody on this board, but GRM of 8 ain’t gonna happen in Diego….I really wish it would though because I would be investing like crazy and selling it like crazy.

[Jumby]

“8xGRM”….you are kidding right? That is very hard to find anywhere in the US, unless it’s a piece of crap or in a bad hood. I’m just as bearish as anybody on this board, but GRM of 8 ain’t gonna happen in Diego….I really wish it would though because I would be investing like crazy and selling it like crazy.

[Jumby]

“8xGRM”….you are kidding right? That is very hard to find anywhere in the US, unless it’s a piece of crap or in a bad hood. I’m just as bearish as anybody on this board, but GRM of 8 ain’t gonna happen in Diego….I really wish it would though because I would be investing like crazy and selling it like crazy.

[Jumby]

“8xGRM”….you are kidding right? That is very hard to find anywhere in the US, unless it’s a piece of crap or in a bad hood. I’m just as bearish as anybody on this board, but GRM of 8 ain’t gonna happen in Diego….I really wish it would though because I would be investing like crazy and selling it like crazy.

[barnaby33]

Hey RO, if you find something you think is a good deal, let the community know. Others regularly do, or at least ask about properties. The response they get is that almost universally bearish because its too early in the cycle for any real deals to occur. Most of the real price declines are in the future and the readership here knows it. So in order to qualify as a good deal, it would probably need to satisfy basic good deal metrics, like 8xGRM. Know any deals like that?

If however you find something, unless you are going to bid, you should share. Same goes for you Rustico.

Josh

[barnaby33]

Hey RO, if you find something you think is a good deal, let the community know. Others regularly do, or at least ask about properties. The response they get is that almost universally bearish because its too early in the cycle for any real deals to occur. Most of the real price declines are in the future and the readership here knows it. So in order to qualify as a good deal, it would probably need to satisfy basic good deal metrics, like 8xGRM. Know any deals like that?

If however you find something, unless you are going to bid, you should share. Same goes for you Rustico.

Josh

[barnaby33]

Hey RO, if you find something you think is a good deal, let the community know. Others regularly do, or at least ask about properties. The response they get is that almost universally bearish because its too early in the cycle for any real deals to occur. Most of the real price declines are in the future and the readership here knows it. So in order to qualify as a good deal, it would probably need to satisfy basic good deal metrics, like 8xGRM. Know any deals like that?

If however you find something, unless you are going to bid, you should share. Same goes for you Rustico.

Josh

[barnaby33]

Hey RO, if you find something you think is a good deal, let the community know. Others regularly do, or at least ask about properties. The response they get is that almost universally bearish because its too early in the cycle for any real deals to occur. Most of the real price declines are in the future and the readership here knows it. So in order to qualify as a good deal, it would probably need to satisfy basic good deal metrics, like 8xGRM. Know any deals like that?

If however you find something, unless you are going to bid, you should share. Same goes for you Rustico.

Josh

[Coronita]

Fine.

 

Deal or No Deal? MLS#071093658

http://sandiego.houserebate.com/search/homeview.asp?id=1693204&p3=-1&ix=67

Sorry, was looking at this for some time now. Three relistings, and still no sales.

SD R, you might be familiar with this one. Particularly the fishtank 🙂 

 

Check City records. 12524 El Camino Real #C closed escrow @ $510K 09/07. This home is a must see, close to cul-de-sac, light & bright, high ceilings, open & bright kitchen w/Corian counter tops.Balcony off nook for fresh air. Two master suites(one w/panoramic views)with own walk-in closets & baths.See hot air balloons go by!

BEAUTIFUL 150G SALT WATER FISH TANK IN DINING ROOM ( Standard in complex is an undesirable railing). Extra storage closet, special to this house on the second floor. Color therapy used in coloring the rooms. All colors with high sheen professionally painted. Washer and dryer are conveniently located upstairs. Higher end Berber carpet. Gas log fireplace in living room. Great location away from traffic. Close to schools, library, community parks, stores, theaters, police station, etc. Two car garage. Complex features pool & spa. Look no further.

 

 

 

[SD Realtor]

FLU why do you torture me so? I am still on this sellers most hated list because of my price recommendation last year to her.

heheheheh….

SD Realtor

[(former)FormerSanDiegan]

SD R – But you don;t understand. This house is special. They used Color therapy used in coloring the rooms.

COLOR … THERAPY

That’s gotta be worth 100K.

[(former)FormerSanDiegan]

SD R – But you don;t understand. This house is special. They used Color therapy used in coloring the rooms.

COLOR … THERAPY

That’s gotta be worth 100K.

[(former)FormerSanDiegan]

SD R – But you don;t understand. This house is special. They used Color therapy used in coloring the rooms.

COLOR … THERAPY

That’s gotta be worth 100K.

[(former)FormerSanDiegan]

SD R – But you don;t understand. This house is special. They used Color therapy used in coloring the rooms.

COLOR … THERAPY

That’s gotta be worth 100K.

[(former)FormerSanDiegan]

SD R – But you don;t understand. This house is special. They used Color therapy used in coloring the rooms.

COLOR … THERAPY

That’s gotta be worth 100K.

[SD Realtor]

FLU why do you torture me so? I am still on this sellers most hated list because of my price recommendation last year to her.

heheheheh….

SD Realtor

[SD Realtor]

FLU why do you torture me so? I am still on this sellers most hated list because of my price recommendation last year to her.

heheheheh….

SD Realtor

[SD Realtor]

FLU why do you torture me so? I am still on this sellers most hated list because of my price recommendation last year to her.

heheheheh….

SD Realtor

[SD Realtor]

FLU why do you torture me so? I am still on this sellers most hated list because of my price recommendation last year to her.

heheheheh….

SD Realtor

[Coronita]

Fine.

 

Deal or No Deal? MLS#071093658

http://sandiego.houserebate.com/search/homeview.asp?id=1693204&p3=-1&ix=67

Sorry, was looking at this for some time now. Three relistings, and still no sales.

SD R, you might be familiar with this one. Particularly the fishtank 🙂 

 

Check City records. 12524 El Camino Real #C closed escrow @ $510K 09/07. This home is a must see, close to cul-de-sac, light & bright, high ceilings, open & bright kitchen w/Corian counter tops.Balcony off nook for fresh air. Two master suites(one w/panoramic views)with own walk-in closets & baths.See hot air balloons go by!

BEAUTIFUL 150G SALT WATER FISH TANK IN DINING ROOM ( Standard in complex is an undesirable railing). Extra storage closet, special to this house on the second floor. Color therapy used in coloring the rooms. All colors with high sheen professionally painted. Washer and dryer are conveniently located upstairs. Higher end Berber carpet. Gas log fireplace in living room. Great location away from traffic. Close to schools, library, community parks, stores, theaters, police station, etc. Two car garage. Complex features pool & spa. Look no further.

 

 

 

[Coronita]

Fine.

 

Deal or No Deal? MLS#071093658

http://sandiego.houserebate.com/search/homeview.asp?id=1693204&p3=-1&ix=67

Sorry, was looking at this for some time now. Three relistings, and still no sales.

SD R, you might be familiar with this one. Particularly the fishtank 🙂 

 

Check City records. 12524 El Camino Real #C closed escrow @ $510K 09/07. This home is a must see, close to cul-de-sac, light & bright, high ceilings, open & bright kitchen w/Corian counter tops.Balcony off nook for fresh air. Two master suites(one w/panoramic views)with own walk-in closets & baths.See hot air balloons go by!

BEAUTIFUL 150G SALT WATER FISH TANK IN DINING ROOM ( Standard in complex is an undesirable railing). Extra storage closet, special to this house on the second floor. Color therapy used in coloring the rooms. All colors with high sheen professionally painted. Washer and dryer are conveniently located upstairs. Higher end Berber carpet. Gas log fireplace in living room. Great location away from traffic. Close to schools, library, community parks, stores, theaters, police station, etc. Two car garage. Complex features pool & spa. Look no further.

 

 

 

[Coronita]

Fine.

 

Deal or No Deal? MLS#071093658

http://sandiego.houserebate.com/search/homeview.asp?id=1693204&p3=-1&ix=67

Sorry, was looking at this for some time now. Three relistings, and still no sales.

SD R, you might be familiar with this one. Particularly the fishtank 🙂 

 

Check City records. 12524 El Camino Real #C closed escrow @ $510K 09/07. This home is a must see, close to cul-de-sac, light & bright, high ceilings, open & bright kitchen w/Corian counter tops.Balcony off nook for fresh air. Two master suites(one w/panoramic views)with own walk-in closets & baths.See hot air balloons go by!

BEAUTIFUL 150G SALT WATER FISH TANK IN DINING ROOM ( Standard in complex is an undesirable railing). Extra storage closet, special to this house on the second floor. Color therapy used in coloring the rooms. All colors with high sheen professionally painted. Washer and dryer are conveniently located upstairs. Higher end Berber carpet. Gas log fireplace in living room. Great location away from traffic. Close to schools, library, community parks, stores, theaters, police station, etc. Two car garage. Complex features pool & spa. Look no further.

 

 

 

[Coronita]

Fine.

 

Deal or No Deal? MLS#071093658

http://sandiego.houserebate.com/search/homeview.asp?id=1693204&p3=-1&ix=67

Sorry, was looking at this for some time now. Three relistings, and still no sales.

SD R, you might be familiar with this one. Particularly the fishtank 🙂 

 

Check City records. 12524 El Camino Real #C closed escrow @ $510K 09/07. This home is a must see, close to cul-de-sac, light & bright, high ceilings, open & bright kitchen w/Corian counter tops.Balcony off nook for fresh air. Two master suites(one w/panoramic views)with own walk-in closets & baths.See hot air balloons go by!

BEAUTIFUL 150G SALT WATER FISH TANK IN DINING ROOM ( Standard in complex is an undesirable railing). Extra storage closet, special to this house on the second floor. Color therapy used in coloring the rooms. All colors with high sheen professionally painted. Washer and dryer are conveniently located upstairs. Higher end Berber carpet. Gas log fireplace in living room. Great location away from traffic. Close to schools, library, community parks, stores, theaters, police station, etc. Two car garage. Complex features pool & spa. Look no further.

 

 

 

[surveyor]

Having problems uploading the photos, so here they are on photo bucket:

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg35/surveyor75/huntsv5.jpg

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg35/surveyor75/huntsv4.jpg

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg35/surveyor75/huntsv3.jpg

There are other photos, but they are of the laundry and not very interesting anyways.

[surveyor]

Having problems uploading the photos, so here they are on photo bucket:

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg35/surveyor75/huntsv5.jpg

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg35/surveyor75/huntsv4.jpg

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg35/surveyor75/huntsv3.jpg

There are other photos, but they are of the laundry and not very interesting anyways.

[surveyor]

Having problems uploading the photos, so here they are on photo bucket:

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg35/surveyor75/huntsv5.jpg

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg35/surveyor75/huntsv4.jpg

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg35/surveyor75/huntsv3.jpg

There are other photos, but they are of the laundry and not very interesting anyways.

[surveyor]

Having problems uploading the photos, so here they are on photo bucket:

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg35/surveyor75/huntsv5.jpg

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg35/surveyor75/huntsv4.jpg

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg35/surveyor75/huntsv3.jpg

There are other photos, but they are of the laundry and not very interesting anyways.

[surveyor]

Having problems uploading the photos, so here they are on photo bucket:

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg35/surveyor75/huntsv5.jpg

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg35/surveyor75/huntsv4.jpg

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg35/surveyor75/huntsv3.jpg

There are other photos, but they are of the laundry and not very interesting anyways.

[Author]

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